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View Poll Results: Age of Ultron or World's Finest
Age of Ultron 84 63.16%
World's Finest 49 36.84%
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Old 07-27-2013, 09:44 PM   #201
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Default Re: Age of Ultron or World's Finest

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Originally Posted by Tacit Ronin View Post
Oh, the narrative was very, very effective. You can choose to disbelieve it, but a film doesn't get close to three billion world wide with empty flatulence. It was a simple and derivative narrative, it was nonetheless effective because James Cameron is an absolute master at taking the most conventional of tropes and infusing them with heft, gravity and emotional connection; even in his lesser works such as in Avatar.
It wasn't empty flatulence, but I wouldn't call it effective. Just there. It was a basic story that no one talked or raved about afterwards. The movie made as much as it did because of the elements I previously mentioned. Cameron is a gifted director, but like you said, this is one of his lesser works and it shows. The effects are fantastic, but I'm sure as hell not watching Avatar for the story.

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Old 07-27-2013, 09:51 PM   #202
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Default Re: Age of Ultron or World's Finest

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It wasn't empty flatulence, but I wouldn't call it effective. Just there. It was a basic story that no one talked or raved about afterwards. The movie made as much as it did because of the elements I previously mentioned. Cameron is a gifted director, but like you said, this is one of his lesser works and it shows. The effects are fantastic, but I'm sure as hell not watching Avatar for the story.
Well that's how you feel, and that is how many others felt. But that is not how the people who went back repeatedly to see the film felt, I can guarantee it. One does not simply go back to a film to see a film ten times to look at the pretty ornaments. For them, the film was very effective. I speak from personal experience, one of my cousins (female) went to see this film almost twenty times in the theater. She was even one of those crazy "life in the real world isn't as good as Pandora; I'm depressed!" people for a while. For her, and those crazy people, one simply cannot say the narrative wasn't damn effective. It was more than effective, for these people, it was transcendent, or something.

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The movie made as much as it did because of the elements I previously mentioned
No doubt. And yet for a film as huge (and it just wasn't big, mind us; it was frickin ginormous) as this, those were one of the factors in a large range of factors. And I believe the narrative (its simplicity has little to do with its effectiveness, mind) engaging at a deep level for many a poor soul was a big factor.

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Old 07-27-2013, 10:55 PM   #203
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Default Re: Age of Ultron or World's Finest

To Captain Marvel and Mr. Dent: Apparently you completely missed the point of the article. I wasn't saying that Age of Ultron would be bad because they're adapting the arc for the movie. Not once did I say that. I reference it because it happened (and much like this decision is very polarzing to fans) and I used the scenario of Hank Pym vs. Ultron at the end to prove my point. Moving on...

My point overall is that an Ultron story without Hank Pym is a injustice. Hank Pym created Ultron and we know FOR A FACT that he will not be in Avengers 2 and that Ultron will have a new origin. Also that Ultron will not appear in any movies until Avengers 2. So it doesn't matter how many characters there are and how good their backstories are when there is no build up to his creation. Ultron is Hank Pym as much as Loki is Thor, they're connected at the hip. It's fact.

As for Thanos he's not being rushed at all, that's the point. He was in Avengers and shown to be behind the Chutari invasion and he smiled when he heard his servant say "To court them is to court Death" which is of course ironic as his mistress is Death. But that indicated to many that he would be next in line to take on the Avengers. Then we found out he would be in Guardians of the Galaxy to some capacity which only adds to the drama of him facing the Avengers in the sequel if he was the villain.

But now we're coming in with Ultron who (at the moment I'll give you) has no build up except for that we know he's in there. If you read my article I gave a very logical argument as to why it would make sense for him to be in 3 which is after Ant-Man.

Ok fine it was a little ambitious to say that the Infinity Gauntlet would be the focus of the story but it makes sense when you consider who Thanos is. And after losing an entire army to the Avengers what's to say he doesn't get that as insurance that he wins?

So does my point make sense now? I didn't say the movie would be the comic arc, I said Ultron without Pym is wrong. That's all.

EDIT: oh and just no one else gets confused I fixed my article so that this point is clear that I'm not saying the comic arc will be the movie. I still don't know how you got that. Oh and yes I trust Snyder, Goyer, AND Nolan to make World's Finest work well. Why? Cause Man of Steel was an epic masterpiece. That is all.

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Last edited by BlackMagicWolf; 07-27-2013 at 11:05 PM.
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Old 07-28-2013, 12:13 AM   #204
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Default Re: Age of Ultron or World's Finest

A Batman vs. Superman film interests me waaaaay more than seeing another Avengers film (which I absolutely loved by the way). Seeing those two titans go head to head on screen, especially with Batman being my all time favorite character, is just fantastic.


But then I remember that the characters are being handled and written by Goyer once again, sooooooooo.


Avengers II: Age of Ultron.


Though I bet a Whendon helmed (written anyway) Batman and Superman flick could be pretty damn exciting. The guy's the king of character interaction.

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Old 07-28-2013, 01:46 AM   #205
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Default Re: Age of Ultron or World's Finest

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Episode VII will definitely be a phenomenon. The prequel trilogy made ridiculous amounts of money, and they were terrible. How much more successful would Episode VII be with a director like JJ Abrams at the helm and a screenplay by an academy award winner? Not to mention that Episode VII will likely feature the return of Luke Skywalker, Han Solo, Princess Leia, and Chewbacca. There is no underestimating how huge that is. It's a sequel which fans have waited 32 years for! There's no way it won't be huge. Even bigger than the biggest of the prequel trilogy.

As for World's Finest, agreed. If it were Christian Bale's Batman then that'd be one thing, but it's not. It's an all-new Batman. And that Batman won't even be introduced in his own movie. His first appearance will be in a team-up movie. There's a part of me that can't help but see that as really terrible. Rather than the new Batman getting a proper introduction or the new Superman getting a proper sequel they're both getting shafted in one way or another. I'm not terribly confident about the final product.
To me, the team up movie in place of a traditional sequel for MOS or reboot movie for Bats says DC/Warner is starting to think outside the box, and i think that's a good thing. WHy go for the obvious?

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Old 07-28-2013, 06:46 AM   #206
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Exactly Captain Stacy. This is totally different than what Marvel did with the Avengers so there is a lot of potential here. The only thing that could be better is if after this they did a Trinity movie to introduce Wonder Woman instead of going straight to Justice League.

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Old 07-28-2013, 06:49 AM   #207
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Default Re: Age of Ultron or World's Finest

The team-up movie is a good idea, no doubt about it, but what I think is the bad idea is introducing the new Batman in that team-up movie.

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Old 07-28-2013, 08:00 AM   #208
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I think it'll be fine. They'll take the time to show off the new Batman enough so we know what he's like all the while focusing on Superman as well. I would've been worse if the introduced him, Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern, and whoever else at the same time in Justice League which was supposed to happen before SDCC.

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Old 07-28-2013, 08:52 AM   #209
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Old 07-28-2013, 01:14 PM   #210
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Old 07-30-2013, 11:20 PM   #211
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Default Re: Age of Ultron or World's Finest

I'm not so sure that I have such anticipation for any of these movies tbh.

The Avengers was something special to watch on-screen...to see 5 superheroes band up against the Chitauris in an iconic way and Joss Whedon's brilliant writing on-screen was an experience that I will never forget. I'm not so sure that Age of Ultron is going to catch lightning in the bottle again (especially with news that Hank Pym is not going to be responsible for Ultron...which is the reason why he's Hank Pym in the first place).

And while I have longed for a Batman of Steel movie, we still have Zack Snyder (a criminally underrated director IMO, but less-than-stellar writer), and the more concerning figure in David S. Goyer. I'm not sure that they can make a fantastic World's Finest movie.

For the sake of this debate, a redditor found this link which shows a survey of 1000 people pertaining to MOSII's announcement.
http://www.gotham-news.com/news/2013...n-announcement


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Old 08-11-2013, 07:18 AM   #212
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Default Re: Age of Ultron or World's Finest

Age of Ultron without thinking, unless Karl Urban gets cast as Batman...

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Old 08-12-2013, 04:49 AM   #213
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I'm more of a marvel boy so age of Ultron

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Old 08-13-2013, 01:24 PM   #214
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If Bale somehow comes back for Batman, Worlds finest. If not, Age of Ultron.

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Old 08-13-2013, 01:44 PM   #215
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Default Re: Age of Ultron or World's Finest

Days of Future Past!

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Old 08-13-2013, 06:26 PM   #216
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Default Re: Age of Ultron or World's Finest

Even with the dumb title, I am definitely more excited for TA2. Concerned about World's Finest given the rumors about actors that might be hired to play Batman. Also don't trust Snyder/Goyer as much as Whedon.

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Old 08-15-2013, 02:01 PM   #217
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Default Re: Age of Ultron or World's Finest

Age of Ultron. It's interesting that both films are the second efforts from Whedon and Snyder at their respective films. I think Whedon has a much better foundation for a sequel though, and I trust his scripting over Goyer's. My interest in World's Finest has been dampened somewhat by the idea that MOS' Superman 'isn't really Superman yet', although I'm morbidly curious about how Superman vs Batman is represented in live action without appearing utterly ridiculous.

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Old 08-15-2013, 05:21 PM   #218
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Default Re: Age of Ultron or World's Finest

Surprised the poll isn't a little more even, considering the reaction to Whedon's Pym comments and the novelty of Superman & Batman being in the same movie for the first time.

That said, AOU all the way. For similar reasons as most--namely, Whedon vs. Snyder/Goyer. Snyder can have a great visual eye when it serves the material (300 is a good example), but I'm not sure how suited he is for this. Goyer's writing is of course more often shoddy than not, and to say it pales in comparison to Whedon's is an understatement.

The other reason is simply that I love some of the Avengers characters (Iron Man, Cap, and thanks to Avengers 1--Banner/Hulk) and at the very least, really enjoy watching the rest. As we all know, Batman can be really awesome when done right, but I really have trouble connecting to Bruce Wayne and if they play the Batman persona like he was in TDKT (which worked out okay for those movies, but won't with MOS), I don't see myself getting into it. I really thought MOS would get me pumped on Superman, but I came out of it still not really jazzed on the character. Like you can pick at the story in Thor 1, but it did make the achievement of getting me pretty psyched on a character I never cared for at all previously.

So seeing how they'll tackle S/B will be very interesting to track, just as a movie fan--let alone superhero fan, in the coming years; but with AOU I'll actually be waiting for each bit of information to spill in. Plus I keep getting the impression they'll play it safe with S/B and have an idea of what they'll do, while I really have no idea how AOU will play out, what with QS/SW playing into the overall Ultron story and the characters' new arcs and plights.

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Old 08-15-2013, 05:57 PM   #219
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Default Re: Age of Ultron or World's Finest

My anticipation for worlds finest all depends on who they cast as batman. Age of ultron I'm already excited for because I just think joss whedon is a better writer and film maker than either Snyder or goyer...and I loved man of steel when I first saw it. Plus, I really couldn't care less about whether or not tony starker hank pym makes ultron. Honestly I think tony stark would have a far greater impact on the audience.

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Old 08-16-2013, 06:27 PM   #220
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Default Re: Age of Ultron or World's Finest

A:AoU

Ultron is such a cool villain, Pym not being around doesn't bother me, as Ultron is what makes him interesting. I believe they can still make an interesting creation story for Ultron that will encapsulate what the character is about. Whedon's talk of putting the Avengers through the wringer has me expecting some awesome stuff.

I had mixed feelings on MoS, but was genuinely looking forward to a sequel. I agree with the posters who said they are cautious of WF striking the right balance between progressing Superman, and introducing a new Batman.

In their favor, everybody knows Batman's story, it doesn't have to be throughly explained. But on the flip side, he can't just show up. The differences between this Batman and Nolan's have to be established. Just like The Amazing Spider-Man had to retell Spidey's origin, to drive home the fact that it was an entirely different take on the character.

I don't think my mind will change any time soon. WF will need to announce an outstanding Batman, and perk my interest with an exceptional trailer, before it's even in the same ballpark as Age of Ultron.

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Old 08-16-2013, 11:25 PM   #221
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Default Re: Age of Ultron or World's Finest

Age of Ultron, easily. And I say that as a hardcore Batman fan.

My anticipation for WF is guarded, to say the least. I gave Whedon the benefit of the doubt with The Avengers, and it paid off. I tried to give Snyder and Goyer the same benefit, and Man of Steel was a mess. At this stage in the game, I am far more confident in the former's ability to deliver a satisfying product.

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Old 08-17-2013, 05:56 PM   #222
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Definately Age of Ultron, we don't even have an established Batman going into the film and with how pretentious and over dramatic I found Man of Steel to be I can't see how this is going to be good. Very finically successful no doubt but not good.

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Old 08-26-2013, 12:03 PM   #223
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Default Re: Age of Ultron or World's Finest

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Definately Age of Ultron, we don't even have an established Batman going into the film and with how pretentious and over dramatic I found Man of Steel to be I can't see how this is going to be good. Very finically successful no doubt but not good.

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Old 08-26-2013, 04:07 PM   #224
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Default Re: Age of Ultron or World's Finest

Wonder if the votes would've been different if people had know it'd be afflleck as bats

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Old 08-26-2013, 05:46 PM   #225
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Default Re: Age of Ultron or World's Finest

as soon as i heard that ben affleck was on board with WF, i knew for a fact that he would not only be batman, but would have input in terms of story. and so far, affleck has proven that he can do phenomenal things creatively.
as for age of ultron, i wasn't too sold on the comic itself, and no ant-man involved, it's kind of a turn off :P

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