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Old 07-21-2013, 11:26 PM   #76
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But maybe I just don't understand that MOS was just fetishized action with no meaning, and those scene I mentioned didn't really affect me emotionally (they did).

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Old 07-21-2013, 11:27 PM   #77
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We'll just have to agree to disagree then.

This is what I mean:





I tried to think of the best of Avengers to post for comparison. But I really just can't even think of any.
That's pretty, I openly admit that. And just as images, not in the context of the film, they're breathtaking. But in a movie, I need them to mean something. Otherwise I'd just look at someone's video photography portfolio.

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Old 07-21-2013, 11:27 PM   #78
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Every scene with Russell Crowe was full of emotion. Lara standing alone as Krypton dies around her after losing both her husband and infant son. Faora's reaction to Krypton's destruction and Zod silently consoling her. Zod anguish at the destruction of the codex, Superman's agony after having to kill Zod, etc. There was plenty of emotion in the film.
Yes there were some great emotional moments.
I wish some of those moments had been a bit more expanded and longer though.
I think one of my favorite scenes I would have liked to have been expanded on, is when Clark returns to his home and reunites with his mother. Diane was great and I thought Cavill really bounced off her well.

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Old 07-21-2013, 11:28 PM   #79
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I don't really get when people criticize Snyder for how he integrates music into his films. I thought with scenes like the scene Connor just mentioned (flying into the World Engine) as well as I love the music when Lara presses the launch button, or the strings when Krypton is exploding following by that humble beat with Kal-Els little craft warping into our solar system. It all just brought me to tears. Maybe I'm not a good judge for that stuff, but it all worked for me.

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Old 07-21-2013, 11:28 PM   #80
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Every scene with Russell Crowe was full of emotion. Lara standing alone as Krypton dies around her after losing both her husband and infant son. Faora's reaction to Krypton's destruction and Zod silently consoling her. Zod anguish at the destruction of the codex, Superman's agony after having to kill Zod, etc. There was plenty of emotion in the film.
Well, I didn't think it was done very well.

And even then, accepting all of that, it was absent from most of the action climax, which made it impossible for me to care about that climax.

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Old 07-21-2013, 11:29 PM   #81
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I don't really get when people criticize Snyder for how he integrates music into his films.
I'm mostly referring to Watchmen's goofy and distracting classic rock soundtrack.

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Old 07-21-2013, 11:30 PM   #82
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Every scene with Russell Crowe was full of emotion. Lara standing alone as Krypton dies around her after losing both her husband and infant son. Faora's reaction to Krypton's destruction and Zod silently consoling her. Zod anguish at the destruction of the codex, Superman's agony after having to kill Zod, etc. There was plenty of emotion in the film.

Agreed. Also the fact that they dealt with the issues brought up by treating the fantastic elements of the story in a way that showed the CONSEQUENCES of said elements was great. And I think that Costner as well as Crowe brought their A game so their scenes were overflowing with emotion.

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Old 07-21-2013, 11:31 PM   #83
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It's not about the amount, it's about the focus and presentation. The last 15 minutes of Man of Steel was near non stop CGI action without much else going on. Avengers sprinkled character and pathos throughout their film, they broke up the spectacle with some human emotion.
PATHOS.
an appeal to the audience's emotions, from my understanding of the word.
Between everything that went down in the train station at the end there with the tears, to the scene that perry white was involved with sacrificing himself for his intern, into to Zod's final passionate fatwa.

Argue all you want that they didn't succeed(while I argue that they fell on deaf ears), but let's not start with the blanket statements that the final set piece was noting but punching.
I'd even toss superman's kamikazie in there for good measure(no way he know he was going to survive that).

Pathos in the avengers 20 minute bonanza...
Sure I guess.
I like the fight but I wouldn't say it was really striving for pathos.

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Old 07-21-2013, 11:31 PM   #84
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Wait... So... A film where Lex and Supes sit down and hash out the differences between their view on the nature of humanity over a couple of frappicinos would be ok for you? Well I am happy that you are on a more evolved plane than the rest of the human race that does enjoy visceral thrills with it's entertainment.
Why are you being sarcastic and rude?

I'm not saying action is a bad think, I'm saying it needs to be grounded by pathos and motivation.

I mean, yes, in theory I would love a My Dinner With Andre between Superman and Lex Luthor. But I would also love a more traditional sic-fi action movie with Superman and Lex Luthor that was really well done and had a lot of heart.

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Old 07-21-2013, 11:32 PM   #85
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Well, I didn't think it was done very well.

And even then, accepting all of that, it was absent from most of the action climax, which made it impossible for me to care about that climax.
I'm sorry you feel that way.

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Old 07-21-2013, 11:34 PM   #86
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I'm sorry you feel that way.
You know, to a lot of people that gif comes off as rude.

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Old 07-21-2013, 11:35 PM   #87
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That's pretty, I openly admit that. And just as images, not in the context of the film, they're breathtaking. But in a movie, I need them to mean something. Otherwise I'd just look at someone's video photography portfolio.
So when you saw these on film they meant nothing to you? Seriously? These 2 scenes have a lot of meaning.

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Old 07-21-2013, 11:35 PM   #88
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If all people can say in response to specific scenes highlighted is "I didn't think it was done well" that is telling. How about some actual specifics. Also, Superman fighting is going to have a lot of cgi, that's inevitable (people had been complaining for over 30 years that we never really go to see him fight all out like in the comics).

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Old 07-21-2013, 11:35 PM   #89
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Why are you being sarcastic and rude?

I'm not saying action is a bad think, I'm saying it needs to be grounded by pathos and motivation.

I mean, yes, in theory I would love a My Dinner With Andre between Superman and Lex Luthor. But I would also love a more traditional sic-fi action movie with Superman and Lex Luthor that was really well done and had a lot of heart.

Sarcastic? Yes. Rude? If you took it as an insult I apologize. Really.

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Old 07-21-2013, 11:36 PM   #90
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You know, to a lot of people that gif comes off as rude.
Really ? Huh.
That was not the intent at all.

I guess you read it in the absolute wrong tone. My condolences if you were offended

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Old 07-21-2013, 11:36 PM   #91
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Yes there were some great emotional moments.
I wish some of those moments had been a bit more expanded and longer though.
I think one of my favorite scenes I would have liked to have been expanded on, is when Clark returns to his home and reunites with his mother. Diane was great and I thought Cavill really bounced off her well.
I agree mate. It's such a small scale scene but it's just perfection to me. That long shot of the sun shining through the tree as they walk towards the house. And Martha being slightly upset when he tells her he found his parents. Diane really shines. As well as the first flashback. When she says 'Clark' and it echoes cuts to Clark opening his eyes to the whales with their cry. Maybe my favorite scene. She really did bring alot to this movie.

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Old 07-21-2013, 11:38 PM   #92
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I'm sorry you feel that way.
I don't agree with the question... why the action in the final battle has to have a lot of emotion... Ive never seen in the action nor Avengers, nor The Avengers, nor any comic book movie with the climax...the emotion is in the faces on the people of metropolis, and at the enn of the battle... not to mencion in all the movie....

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Old 07-21-2013, 11:38 PM   #93
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I agree mate. It's such a small scale scene but it's just perfection to me. That long shot of the sun shining through the tree as they walk towards the house. And Martha being slightly upset when he tells her he found his parents. Diane really shines. As well as the first flashback. When she says 'Clark' and it echoes cuts to Clark opening his eyes to the whales with their cry. Maybe my favorite scene. She really did bring alot to this movie.
I have to say, I'm so glad that Diane is returning for the sequel. I really and thoroughly enjoyed her portrayal.

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Old 07-21-2013, 11:38 PM   #94
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I'm mostly referring to Watchmen's goofy and distracting classic rock soundtrack.
Maybe, but the Bob Dylan 'Time's are a-changin' opening was incredible.

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Old 07-21-2013, 11:40 PM   #95
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Kevin Costner reaction to Clark asking "can I keep pretending that I'm your son." Zod and Jor-el's first confrontation, Jor-el saying when first meeting adult Clark "if only Lara could be here to see you." Yeah, there was no emotion or character in this film.

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Old 07-21-2013, 11:40 PM   #96
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One scenario that I wouldn't mind seeing is if Superman got shot or stabbed with a kryptonite weapon from Lex and how Batman places Superman in the batmobile and has to race to get Superman to the proper place in time to save him while being chased by Lex's armed forces.

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Old 07-21-2013, 11:41 PM   #97
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One scenario that I wouldn't mind seeing is if Superman got shot or stabbed with a kryptonite weapon from Lex and how Batman places Superman in the batmobile and has to race to get Superman to the proper place in time to save him while being chased by Lex's armed forces.
Hahaha. 'Clark JUST HANG ON!' 'Stay with me!' RAAAAACHAAAEEELL' Oh wait. 'CLAAAAARK'.

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Old 07-21-2013, 11:42 PM   #98
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I have to say, I'm so glad that Diane is returning for the sequel. I really and thoroughly enjoyed her portrayal.
My ideal use of Diane is to do something NOT from the books and have Martha move in with Clark to Metropolis, at least for a short time in the sequel. Could go a long way towards people thinking the film is short on emotion. I also wish I could get some more Jonathon flachbacks, but I am getting a SUPEMAN/BATMAN( )film, so I can't complain too loudly.

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Old 07-21-2013, 11:43 PM   #99
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Hahaha. 'Clark JUST HANG ON!' 'Stay with me!' RAAAAACHAAAEEELL' Oh wait. 'CLAAAAARK'.
It has begun. Cue the fan slash fiction.

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Old 07-21-2013, 11:43 PM   #100
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Hahaha. 'Clark JUST HANG ON!' 'Stay with me!' RAAAAACHAAAEEELL' Oh wait. 'CLAAAAARK'.
lol indeed. it could also be funny to see Batman's reaction in having to be carried by Superman when he needs to carry him for flight.

Meh; In a way I kind of wish that we were going into a full blown JL film already, that way, we could have spared one of Superman's non JL outings.

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