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Old 07-13-2014, 11:19 AM   #1
BatmanVSuperman
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Default Apokolips Now!... or later?

I don't feel that a full Darkseid reveal has to be done from the start, in order to begin an Apokolips storyline. I think a story arch could be created that sets up all the way through JL film runs as well.

With that said, the question is: What is the best way to begin a storyline for Apokolips in this way?

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Old 07-13-2014, 01:15 PM   #2
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Default Re: Apokolips Now!... or later?

I don't think Apokolips needs to be some several movie project. Many times the JL just shows up. I think it can be handled in just one film as long as it's just a straight up invasion movie.

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Old 07-13-2014, 01:21 PM   #3
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Default Re: Apokolips Now!... or later?

We need the New Gods and to see Jack Kirby's Fourth World done justice.

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Old 07-13-2014, 01:29 PM   #4
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Default Re: Apokolips Now!... or later?

I think it would be epic to see a Justice League film explore the conflict between New Genesis and Apokolips. Rather than your standard invasion film, why not throw the Justice League out in space somewhere and have them become soldiers in someone else's war?

What am I saying, that's probably not going to happen.

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Old 07-13-2014, 01:58 PM   #5
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Default Re: Apokolips Now!... or later?

Copying the Geoff Johns / JL War version of Darkseid would be the worst thing they could do. First mistake would be to use Darkseid as the League's first threat; that should never happen, Darkseid needs to be built up, the New Gods and the Fourth World have to be properly introduced first. But the most glaring error was making Darkseid a dumb, generic alien invader. He just comes in, with minimal explanation, invades Earth, beats the crap out of the League and is eventually repelled. That's... just a generic story about a powerful alien invader. It doesn't make Darkseid stand out.

The best portrayals of Darkseid show him as a smart, elegant villain. The face of evil, unquestioned ruler of Apokolips, who stays in the back controlling and manipulating things (but is still fully capable of wiping the floor with the heroes if it comes down to that). His only objective was to destroy the free will of every being in the universe. That's what Anti-Life is.

I don't really feel intimidated when I see this:



Sure, he's strong and all, but Darkseid here is nothing but a brute, just another tough guy the JL has to face.

Now, this is a scary villain:



Notice how he doesn't come in blasting everything, he doesn't get in a huge fight with the heroes, nor is he first in the frontlines. He just comes in, going about his business, and just casually slaps Superman away. The fact he doesn't even give importance to Superman, calling him an insect, passes power much better than seeing him brawling with the Justice League, even though it's a lesser feat. That's how Darkseid should appear in a movie. Elegant, powerful, calm, calculating.

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Old 07-13-2014, 02:06 PM   #6
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Default Re: Apokolips Now!... or later?

Goyer/Terrio would be smart to plant lots of seeds for Darkseid in BvS. I think Darkseid should be the villain of the first JL movie

Darkseid was done pretty perfectly in the DCAU.

a scene like this is all the setup the new gods need:
VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:


I want Superman to defeat Darkseid on his own, the rest of the league could be fighting Granny Goodness, Kalibak, Parademons and Desaad.


VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:


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Old 07-13-2014, 02:19 PM   #7
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Default Re: Apokolips Now!... or later?

Superman is not supposed to be able to defeat Darkseid on his own and relying on the animated series for power levels is the last thing you should be doing. Everyone was nerfed to hell in that one. Except Bats.

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Old 07-13-2014, 02:41 PM   #8
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Default Re: Apokolips Now!... or later?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Thanos;29274101
Now, [I
this [/I]is a scary villain:



Notice how he doesn't come in blasting everything, he doesn't get in a huge fight with the heroes, nor is he first in the frontlines. He just comes in, going about his business, and just casually slaps Superman away. The fact he doesn't even give importance to Superman, calling him an insect, passes power much better than seeing him brawling with the Justice League, even though it's a lesser feat. That's how Darkseid should appear in a movie. Elegant, powerful, calm, calculating.
Could you or someone tell me which run is that? the issues and comic?

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Old 07-13-2014, 02:52 PM   #9
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Could you or someone tell me which run is that? the issues and comic?
Superman Confidential #8, by Abnett and Lanning. The series is about Superman's early carreer, that specific issue shows his first meeting with Darkseid.

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Old 07-13-2014, 02:53 PM   #10
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Default Re: Apokolips Now!... or later?

Thanks man. In your opinion which are the best comics to read Darkseid's moments with Superman and with the JL?

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Old 07-13-2014, 03:11 PM   #11
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Default Re: Apokolips Now!... or later?

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Thanks man. In your opinion which are the best comics to read Darkseid's moments with Superman and with the JL?
Can't go wrong with Morrison's Rock Of Ages; it sends the Justice League to an alternate future where Darkseid rules the Earth, and there are a lot of interesting twists. He also wrote Final Crisis, which is incredibly dense and you probably won't understand it on the first read, but it's nice once it starts to make sense. There's Crisis On New Genesis, where the Justice League, Justice Society and the New Gods team up against him. “Supergirl” from Superman/Batman #8-13 which was also adapted in the "Batman/Superman: Apocalypse" animated movie.

Other good Darkseid stories that don't involve the JL are The Pact and Simonson's Orion run. I also like The Great Darkness Saga, which is also one of the best Legion of Super-Heroes comics around. You could also go back to the source and read Jack Kirby's New Gods for some early Darkseid.

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Old 07-13-2014, 03:18 PM   #12
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Default Re: Apokolips Now!... or later?

I'll take a look. Supergirl saga I read it. But the other ones sounds good.
Thanks.

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Old 07-13-2014, 04:12 PM   #13
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Final Crisis and The Great Darkness Saga.

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Old 07-13-2014, 05:33 PM   #14
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Default Re: Apokolips Now!... or later?

Here's a thought... Maybe no Fourth world for a bit? No Lord of Apokalips until we actually have a JL and a wider DCCU established? No synchronicity with The New 52 just because?

I'm just going to also just come out and say it... The Fourth World's barely worked in comics, even in the hands of it's creator, and now we expect to adapt it's overly dense mythology while at the same time doing a JL film and esyablishing without solo films each member? It's too much. And the Fourth World is too much. I count myself among those that's never had much of an attachment to that stuff outside of Darkseid, Mr.Miracle and Barda and maybe Desaad. Darkseid is a great epic super villain but everything that goes along with him just has a high hurdle to pass for adapting into live action. The execution would have to be even more on point than just about every appearace of the Fourth World in comics combined. I think it's asking too much. The White Martians, the Appelaxians, Starro or some combo of all 3 might make for a more doable and credible threat to audiences for a first time JL story than bringing Darkseid to the table.

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Old 07-13-2014, 05:47 PM   #15
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Default Re: Apokolips Now!... or later?

In a perfect world I would like to have a New Gods movie and then a Justice League movie the year after or something.

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Old 07-13-2014, 05:52 PM   #16
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Final Crisis is crazy but has some incredible moments like the Rubik's Cube scene.

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Old 07-13-2014, 06:41 PM   #17
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Default Re: Apokolips Now!... or later?

Frankly, I'm not overly fond of Kirby's "New God's" crew.They were woefully overused during Superman's animated series.I wouldn't cry if there went a different direction with the JL film.

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Old 07-13-2014, 06:49 PM   #18
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Here's a thought... Maybe no Fourth world for a bit? No Lord of Apokalips until we actually have a JL and a wider DCCU established? No synchronicity with The New 52 just because?

I'm just going to also just come out and say it... The Fourth World's barely worked in comics, even in the hands of it's creator, and now we expect to adapt it's overly dense mythology while at the same time doing a JL film and esyablishing without solo films each member? It's too much. And the Fourth World is too much. I count myself among those that's never had much of an attachment to that stuff outside of Darkseid, Mr.Miracle and Barda and maybe Desaad. Darkseid is a great epic super villain but everything that goes along with him just has a high hurdle to pass for adapting into live action. The execution would have to be even more on point than just about every appearace of the Fourth World in comics combined. I think it's asking too much. The White Martians, the Appelaxians, Starro or some combo of all 3 might make for a more doable and credible threat to audiences for a first time JL story than bringing Darkseid to the table.
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Frankly, I'm not overly fond of Kirby's "New God's" crew.They were woefully overused during Superman's animated series.I wouldn't cry if there went a different direction with the JL film.

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

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Old 07-13-2014, 07:08 PM   #19
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Copying the Geoff Johns / JL War version of Darkseid would be the worst thing they could do. First mistake would be to use Darkseid as the League's first threat; that should never happen, Darkseid needs to be built up, the New Gods and the Fourth World have to be properly introduced first. But the most glaring error was making Darkseid a dumb, generic alien invader. He just comes in, with minimal explanation, invades Earth, beats the crap out of the League and is eventually repelled. That's... just a generic story about a powerful alien invader. It doesn't make Darkseid stand out.

The best portrayals of Darkseid show him as a smart, elegant villain. The face of evil, unquestioned ruler of Apokolips, who stays in the back controlling and manipulating things (but is still fully capable of wiping the floor with the heroes if it comes down to that). His only objective was to destroy the free will of every being in the universe. That's what Anti-Life is.

I don't really feel intimidated when I see this:



Sure, he's strong and all, but Darkseid here is nothing but a brute, just another tough guy the JL has to face.

Now, this is a scary villain:



Notice how he doesn't come in blasting everything, he doesn't get in a huge fight with the heroes, nor is he first in the frontlines. He just comes in, going about his business, and just casually slaps Superman away. The fact he doesn't even give importance to Superman, calling him an insect, passes power much better than seeing him brawling with the Justice League, even though it's a lesser feat. That's how Darkseid should appear in a movie. Elegant, powerful, calm, calculating.


This poster right here gets DS and the New Gods. Johns did not.

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Old 07-13-2014, 07:10 PM   #20
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Final Crisis and The Great Darkness Saga.
That would be freaking amazing. The GDS would require a seperate franchise, the way Guardians of the Galaxy is introducing the cosmic aspect of the world for the Avengers to face Thanos later on. The way WB is going at it so far, i can only guess they'll say "screw it, lets rush to Darkseid. BA DA BOOM, BA DA BAM!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by KRYPTON INC. View Post
Here's a thought... Maybe no Fourth world for a bit? No Lord of Apokalips until we actually have a JL and a wider DCCU established? No synchronicity with The New 52 just because?

I'm just going to also just come out and say it... The Fourth World's barely worked in comics, even in the hands of it's creator, and now we expect to adapt it's overly dense mythology while at the same time doing a JL film and esyablishing without solo films each member? It's too much. And the Fourth World is too much. I count myself among those that's never had much of an attachment to that stuff outside of Darkseid, Mr.Miracle and Barda and maybe Desaad. Darkseid is a great epic super villain but everything that goes along with him just has a high hurdle to pass for adapting into live action. The execution would have to be even more on point than just about every appearace of the Fourth World in comics combined. I think it's asking too much. The White Martians, the Appelaxians, Starro or some combo of all 3 might make for a more doable and credible threat to audiences for a first time JL story than bringing Darkseid to the table.
Exactly. The proper way to do this is introduce the world through let's say a Barda and Miracle movie. Or Orion movie. Otherwise Darkseid is some rock guy with lasor beams. Like, whatever.

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Old 07-13-2014, 07:19 PM   #21
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Default Re: Apokolips Now!... or later?

There were elements of Justice League War that I did like, but that is not the way to go about adapting Darkseid for the first time.

As far as animated Darkseid goes, I really liked him in Superman/Batman: Apocalypse and the DCAU.

The Twilight episode of Justice League is a must watch for any DC fan imo. Those first two seasons of Justice League in general are a must watch... so many perfect episodes.

Darkseid in the DCAU is basically the perfect way to handle Darkseid on film. I'd actually love it if they used Michael Ironside's voice for the movie version...

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Old 07-13-2014, 09:43 PM   #22
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I agree with Dr Thanos I don't want Darkseid portrayed like how he was in the first arc of Justice League in the new 52 which JL:War was based on.

In that he just seemed like a generic big bad evil guy.

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Old 07-13-2014, 10:18 PM   #23
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VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:
VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:




I think that even if BvS is not filled to the brim with cameos, and we really don't know that as a fact yet, it's still a lot to ask to work in Darkseid and Apokalips into things, unless you do the Johns' version which is a simplified and less complex and compelling version, or at least it would come across as similar since the time constraints for both films don't lend themselves to unfolding the Fourth World Mythos all that well or deeply. Something far more straight forward like the White Martians or Starro might be a better fit, and allow for the hero to hero interaction that should probably make up the bulk of the film.

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Old 07-14-2014, 07:14 AM   #24
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VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:




I think that even if BvS is not filled to the brim with cameos, and we really don't know that as a fact yet, it's still a lot to ask to work in Darkseid and Apokalips into things, unless you do the Johns' version which is a simplified and less complex and compelling version, or at least it would come across as similar since the time constraints for both films don't lend themselves to unfolding the Fourth World Mythos all that well or deeply. Something far more straight forward like the White Martians or Starro might be a better fit, and allow for the hero to hero interaction that should probably make up the bulk of the film.
Back to serious mode

I actually agree with you Fourth World to be done properly would needs it's own separate trilogy. If you're gonna do New Gods do them properly.

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Old 07-14-2014, 11:41 AM   #25
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Have the Fourth World adventures be an ancient mythology slowly reawakening. Show whole planets devastated with a giant Omega symbol covering them. Have Metron and Libra appear explicitly reincarnated to establish the opposing forces and give exposition as they also both manipulate and control different factions across the Galaxy. Have the heroes and villains begin experiencing visions of the future where Darkseid. Is.

Play up the metaphysical/supernatural aspect of the character. Have Darkseid possess someone like Vandal Savage, have Orion arrive from the last battlefield of the Fourth World. And when Darkseid arrives, give him a full movie to establish his horrific character and personality.

Then have him actually unleash a crushing victory on the heroes and require sacrifice on their part to be defeated.

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