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Old 08-01-2013, 04:41 PM   #401
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises View Post
You're entitled to that opinion about DKReturns of course.

But here's the thing, it's totally possible to take inspiration from that book while making something completely new and different. I don't think there's anything "logical" about how people are reacting, it's just pure fear and dread, and I'm surprised to see some people who loved Man of Steel so much (idk if you did) completely losing faith in Snyder's vision just like that. The most logical thing to do would be to reserve judgment, and wait and see what happens.

But I refuse to believe that Snyder, after all the work he put into reinventing Superman is just going to want to tear that all down and make a movie that simply worships at the altar of the Bat and makes a chump out of Superman. That's ludicrous.
I'm not saying they are just going to adapt that story or anything. But if they are making this Batman vs Superman, and they are looking to TDKReturns for how to portray the reasons why they could be enemies, then they are heading in a direction I really really don't like.

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Old 08-01-2013, 04:51 PM   #402
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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I think people will feel a lot less dread when the new Batman is announced .
It wouldn't matter to me, It's not the actor I'm worried about.

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Old 08-01-2013, 05:16 PM   #403
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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I'm not saying they are just going to adapt that story or anything. But if they are making this Batman vs Superman, and they are looking to TDKReturns for how to portray the reasons why they could be enemies, then they are heading in a direction I really really don't like.
I don't think you really need to look to TDKReturns for reasons why they'd be enemies. It kind of writes itself IMO. Especially in the aftermath of all the collateral damage in MoS.

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Old 08-01-2013, 05:17 PM   #404
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

Just think where we were on June 14th to where we are now. We went from the opening of Man of Steel to this.

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Old 08-01-2013, 05:20 PM   #405
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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Just think where we were on June 14th to where we are now. We went from the opening of Man of Steel to this.
I know really crazy

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Old 08-01-2013, 05:31 PM   #406
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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Just think where we were on June 14th to where we are now. We went from the opening of Man of Steel to this.
It would be funny if it wasn't sad and frustrating.

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Old 08-01-2013, 05:50 PM   #407
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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Just think where we were on June 14th to where we are now. We went from the opening of Man of Steel to this.
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I know really crazy
Hell, I still remember the "Golden Age" where we were all on Cloud Nine while waiting for MOS after getting so many well edited trailers and clips..before we started getting official reviews..and during when we were getting nothing but great feedback on twitter.lol

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Old 08-01-2013, 06:06 PM   #408
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

I must be in the minority in that my excitement went way way up hearing Batman would be in the next film. I loved Man of Steel to.

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Old 08-01-2013, 06:12 PM   #409
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

Maybe there will be a day when this becomes a infamous quote.lol

"You either die a box office flop, or live long enough to see Batman enter your franchise."

lol

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Old 08-01-2013, 06:15 PM   #410
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

I think people are afraid that shill Superman might rear his ugly head. I mean DC has a tenancy to make Superman look like an idiot, especially when Batman is involved.

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Old 08-01-2013, 06:17 PM   #411
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

Calling MoS a 'flop' is just silly.

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Old 08-01-2013, 06:24 PM   #412
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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Calling MoS a 'flop' is just silly.
lol; oh no, I wasn't calling MOS a flop...Superman IV on the other hand..yikes

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Old 08-01-2013, 06:38 PM   #413
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

I'm not surprised that this sequel is getting the divided reaction it is just because MOS got such a polarized reaction from the fans at least. Although in this case you have the combination of fans who, didn't want MOS to have a sequel because they didn't like Snyder's film, Fans who wanted a solo sequel within a trilogy of Superman films, Fans of TDK trilogy who don't like the idea of recasting Batman this soon, fans who feel that a team up film of any kind is too soon, and fans who don't want any sort of team up whether it be WF or JLA.

In that sense , WB has a steep hill to climb in terms of winning hearts and minds of alot the diehard fans. As far as the general public is concerned , the biggest challenge will be to get people to accept the new Batman, which is why casting is crucial.

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Old 08-01-2013, 06:48 PM   #414
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

I've been chit chatting with Kurosawa over on Comicbookresources. He's DEFINITELY NOT excited for the film.

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Old 08-01-2013, 07:18 PM   #415
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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I'm not surprised that this sequel is getting the divided reaction it is just because MOS got such a polarized reaction from the fans at least. Although in this case you have the combination of fans who, didn't want MOS to have a sequel because they didn't like Snyder's film, Fans who wanted a solo sequel within a trilogy of Superman films, Fans of TDK trilogy who don't like the idea of recasting Batman this soon, fans who feel that a team up film of any kind is too soon, and fans who don't want any sort of team up whether it be WF or JLA.

In that sense , WB has a steep hill to climb in terms of winning hearts and minds of alot the diehard fans. As far as the general public is concerned , the biggest challenge will be to get people to accept the new Batman, which is why casting is crucial.
Which is why a sequel should have happened first. Unfortunately, the likelihood of a "perfect origin" is low, so it's ridiculous to wait until MOS gets rebooted to provide a sequel.

A "true" sequel can..

1. Earn back the confidence of disenfranchised fans.
2. Build up support for Superman.
3. Flesh out a lot that was undeserved in MOS, which is more than I'll care to admit.
4. Explain why Superman could not lead Zod away or save everyone.
5. Show the guilt he has over the people he couldn't save as well as the impact of Zod's death on his psyche.
6. Show Superman's impact on the world, Clark's relationship with the Daily Planet, as well as the supporting characters involved.
7. Emphasize the paranoia and hope that exists within everyday people.
8. Create a somewhat realistic movie with only occasional scenes of comic-book action and plot devices.
9. Create a slow and thoughtful narrative with a solid three act structure, driven mostly by character (in particular Clark), but with a bit of plot to back it up.
10. Create a fight scene in which Superman is visibly in danger, with cuts and gashes, and a villain at his throat.

11. Let Lex be a hidden criminal mastermind. Reserve him for only a few keys scenes. This is Clark's movie. That being said, this can be the first to do the modern-age Lex justice.

12. Show Superman as the ultimate humanitarian, starting by retconning the end of MOS where it's implied that he abandoned metropolis in the rubble. Show more human moments with random people. Think of the poor suicidal girl moment in AllStar. Heck, adding that in would make all the difference.

13. Make MOS2 a 95 percent stand alone movie, but with a cliffhanger ending. Having Lex get away with it would force Superman to try to find someone capable at dealing with a more human enemy (hence World's Finest as a sequel).

14. If Batman MUST be in MOS2, as a true sequel, it should be as a minor role that advances the themes of MOS and shows the limitations of Batman and humanity as a whole against Superman. Showing someone level the playing field and still not win shows the significance of Superman as a powerful character, but also as a humane person who holds back.

15. Lex MUST be paired up with an uber-henchman. But that henchman can take up more screen-time and be a blantant foe while Luthor hides in the background.

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Old 08-01-2013, 07:30 PM   #416
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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I must be in the minority in that my excitement went way way up hearing Batman would be in the next film. I loved Man of Steel to.
I'm with you, man. Really enjoyed the film, was looking forward to MOS 2, and am looking forward to it even more now.

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Old 08-01-2013, 08:20 PM   #417
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

What news would you have to hear next for any of you to feel this film is heading the right direction?

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Old 08-01-2013, 08:21 PM   #418
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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What news would you have to hear next for any of you to feel this film is heading the right direction?
That this is being treated as MOS 2 featuring Batman and not as a W/F or Versus film.

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Old 08-01-2013, 08:31 PM   #419
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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15. Lex MUST be paired up with an uber-henchman. But that henchman can take up more screen-time and be a blantant foe while Luthor hides in the background.
This is the only think you said that I disagree with. I wouldn't want a two villain team up in a true MOS sequel. I want the threat to be 100% Lex Luthor. Shoe horning someone like Metallo into the plot could get sloppy. The physical threat should come in the form of technology he developed, probably by reverse engineering the Kryptonian ships, but I wouldn't want it to come in the form of another single villain like Metallo. I'm imaging more soldiers armed with high tech weapons capable of hurting Superman.

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Old 08-01-2013, 08:44 PM   #420
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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I'm not surprised that this sequel is getting the divided reaction it is just because MOS got such a polarized reaction from the fans at least. Although in this case you have the combination of fans who, didn't want MOS to have a sequel because they didn't like Snyder's film, Fans who wanted a solo sequel within a trilogy of Superman films, Fans of TDK trilogy who don't like the idea of recasting Batman this soon, fans who feel that a team up film of any kind is too soon, and fans who don't want any sort of team up whether it be WF or JLA.

In that sense , WB has a steep hill to climb in terms of winning hearts and minds of alot the diehard fans. As far as the general public is concerned , the biggest challenge will be to get people to accept the new Batman, which is why casting is crucial.
If anyone thought there was some agenda in the MOS reviews..



that early RT score is going to be mighty interesting this time around.

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Old 08-01-2013, 08:48 PM   #421
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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If anyone thought there was some agenda in the MOS reviews..
.. then they're paranoid and defensive about people criticizing movies they like.

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Old 08-01-2013, 09:09 PM   #422
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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This is the only think you said that I disagree with. I wouldn't want a two villain team up in a true MOS sequel. I want the threat to be 100% Lex Luthor. Shoe horning someone like Metallo into the plot could get sloppy. The physical threat should come in the form of technology he developed, probably by reverse engineering the Kryptonian ships, but I wouldn't want it to come in the form of another single villain like Metallo. I'm imaging more soldiers armed with high tech weapons capable of hurting Superman.
I feel like making Lex the only villain will only make audiences grow bored.

There's enough "Zod again?" as it is.

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Old 08-01-2013, 09:13 PM   #423
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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I feel like making Lex the only villain will only make audiences grow bored.

There's enough "Zod again?" as it is.
No one got bored with The Joker in The Dark Knight.

The trick isn't do add another villain for the sake of it, the trick is to do Lex properly. People aren't going to get bored if they make him a genuinely compelling character.

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Old 08-01-2013, 10:37 PM   #424
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.. then they're paranoid and defensive about people criticizing movies they like.
That's nice.
Luckily for one of us, I wasn't blanketing with my statement, just pointing out an element that happened to occur, thus my use of the word some. At least that's what I thought I was doing.

To be fair I'm really only looking at the summery's from RT.
Such as:

With Zack 'Watchman' Snyder and Christopher 'Dark Knight' Nolan behind the film, it's no surprise the mood should be dark and serious. If you're hankering after the playful innocence of Christopher Reeve's Superman, you'll definitely be disappointed.
Jason Best
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Rest easy, Christopher Reeve fans. He's still the best Superman ever, and Margot Kidder is still the number one Lois Lane.
David Kaplan
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To quote the Joker in "The Dark Knight," "Why so serious?" There's no joy in this story.
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An oddly-disappointing action-packed film that feels more like a science fiction epic than a Superman reboot.
John Hanlon
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Preconceptions do a re-imagination no favors. I look at all these reviews and I imagine them in a universe in which MOS is the first anyone has ever seen or heard of the character and reviewed in it's own right as all films deserve...
ergo what I personally refer to as, agenda.
Ignoring the reviews that seemed to have a bone to pic with Snyder himself. I just think in this next wave or reception we're going to be hearing from all the Miller detractors. I've only been skimming the threads but it seems we've already begun to.

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Old 08-01-2013, 10:45 PM   #425
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Default Re: Is anyone else not excited about Superman and Batman? I feel nothing but dread.

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That's nice.
Luckily for one of us, I wasn't blanketing with my statement, just pointing out an element that happened to occur, thus my use of the word some. At least that's what I thought I was doing.

To be fair I'm really only looking at the summery's from RT.
Such as:

With Zack 'Watchman' Snyder and Christopher 'Dark Knight' Nolan behind the film, it's no surprise the mood should be dark and serious. If you're hankering after the playful innocence of Christopher Reeve's Superman, you'll definitely be disappointed.
Jason Best
Movie Talk


Rest easy, Christopher Reeve fans. He's still the best Superman ever, and Margot Kidder is still the number one Lois Lane.
David Kaplan
Kaplan vs. Kaplan



To quote the Joker in "The Dark Knight," "Why so serious?" There's no joy in this story.
Paul Chambers
Movie Chambers


An oddly-disappointing action-packed film that feels more like a science fiction epic than a Superman reboot.
John Hanlon
Big Hollywood


Preconceptions do a re-imagination no favors. I look at all these reviews and I imagine them in a universe in which MOS is the first anyone has ever seen or heard of the character and reviewed in it's own right as all films deserve...
ergo what I personally refer to as, agenda.
Well, first of all, that's not what the word agenda means. Having a personal bias isn't an agenda, it's a bias.

Second, the whole notion that the only reason anyone who dislikes the film dislikes it is because of an irrational bias and not because of actual problems they had with how the movie was made is still wicked defensive.

Third, when I read those quotes, I don't see "It's not like the thing I'm used to so I hate it." I see "I really didn't like it, now let me compare to this older version that did it well." I don't think people are biased towards the older films and that keeps them from enjoying Man of Steel. I think they genuinely don't think Man of Steel is a good movie and they compare it to the first two Dick Donner movies because they think those movies got it right where Man of Steel failed.

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Ignoring the reviews that seemed to have a bone to pic with Snyder himself. I just think in this next wave or reception we're going to be hearing from all the Miller detractors. I've only been skimming the threads but it seems we've already begun to.
The "bone" people have to pick with Snyder is that they don't think he makes good movies.

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