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Old 08-18-2014, 10:16 PM   #1
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Default After Avengers 3 - enter New Avengers??

Not sure if this was thrown out for discussion
Avengers big 3 (Cap, Iron Man & Thor) will probably be the final movie with these heavy hitters... my question.......

Can and will the Avengers survive and continue to be a blockbuster movie hit without the big 3.....maybe 4 including the Hulk

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Old 08-19-2014, 04:04 AM   #2
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Default Re: After Avengers 3 - enter New Avengers??

Yeah I think they can go on,
We will have Ant-Man, Dr Strange, Vision, Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch, it's highly plausible that Bucky will become the New Cap, and we could also have Black Panther and Ms. Marvel by that point, and if Hawkeye and Black Widow are still around that's a decent enough team for me.

They could even go West Coast Avengers headed by Hawkeye, with Scarlet Witch, Vision and James Rhoades as Iron Man/War Machine, introduce Tigra, Powerman and or Mockingbird and there's your movie.

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Old 08-19-2014, 11:00 AM   #3
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Default Re: After Avengers 3 - enter New Avengers??

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Yeah I think they can go on,
We will have Ant-Man, Dr Strange, Vision, Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch, it's highly plausible that Bucky will become the New Cap, and we could also have Black Panther and Ms. Marvel by that point, and if Hawkeye and Black Widow are still around that's a decent enough team for me.

They could even go West Coast Avengers headed by Hawkeye, with Scarlet Witch, Vision and James Rhoades as Iron Man/War Machine, introduce Tigra, Powerman and or Mockingbird and there's your movie.
yeah i was hoping you would say that....so many Avengers.... I hope the fanbase and the mainstream media fanbase will look at it that way.....Avengers has such a rich history...it would be cool to see a Hawkeye lead team...and an adventure without Cap...IM...Thor and Hulk....interesting...but looking forward to

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Old 08-19-2014, 11:51 AM   #4
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Default Re: After Avengers 3 - enter New Avengers??

Yes, because by that point they'll have other characters with exposure and some popularity. If they can turn Guardians of the Galaxy into a big success, I'm sure they can handle team roster transitions and recasting.

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Old 08-19-2014, 11:58 AM   #5
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Default Re: After Avengers 3 - enter New Avengers??

Introducing brand new characters as part of a brand new franchise and gambling on a new fanbase (i.e., GOTG) is one thing; introducing brand new characters and/or "second stringers" into an existing franchise that got popular off first-stringers who are no longer around is a far different-colored horse.

Making, say, a GOTG2 that kicked Quill, Rocket and Groot aside for Moondragon, Phyla, and Adam Warlock doesn't make sense. Just as it doesn't make sense to kick Cap, Tony and Thor aside to make Wanda, Pietro and T'Challa the leads. The math doesn't add up.

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Old 08-19-2014, 12:00 PM   #6
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Default Re: After Avengers 3 - enter New Avengers??

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yeah i was hoping you would say that....so many Avengers.... I hope the fanbase and the mainstream media fanbase will look at it that way.....Avengers has such a rich history...it would be cool to see a Hawkeye lead team...and an adventure without Cap...IM...Thor and Hulk....interesting...but looking forward to
I think the mainstream could get behind it, they got behind less popular characters like Iron Man, Thor and Cap in a big way, who from the mainstream could have told you Iron Mans alter ego before Iron Man 1?, no one, now everyone knows who Tony Stark is, hopefully the same goes for Dr Strange, Ant-Man and so on.

Guardians of the Galaxy tells me the mainstream will get behind anyone if they are portrayed good enough.

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Old 08-19-2014, 12:04 PM   #7
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Default Re: After Avengers 3 - enter New Avengers??

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Introducing brand new characters as part of a brand new franchise and gambling on a new fanbase (i.e., GOTG) is one thing; introducing brand new characters and/or "second stringers" into an existing franchise that got popular off first-stringers who are no longer around is a far different-colored horse.

Making, say, a GOTG2 that kicked Quill, Rocket and Groot aside for Moondragon, Phyla, and Adam Warlock doesn't make sense. Just as it doesn't make sense to kick Cap, Tony and Thor aside to make Wanda, Pietro and T'Challa the leads. The math doesn't add up.
I hear what you're saying, but X-Men First Class.

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Old 08-19-2014, 02:33 PM   #8
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Default Re: After Avengers 3 - enter New Avengers??

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I hear what you're saying, but X-Men First Class.
XMFC scores points for *both* the recast-is-good and recast-is-bad crowd. On the one hand, they successfully recast several core characters (Charles, Erik, Mystique, Beast) *and* introduced a largely brand-new team to audiences.

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Old 08-19-2014, 02:40 PM   #9
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Default Re: After Avengers 3 - enter New Avengers??

you guys think in the battle against thanos.. we would see the avengers with doc strange? ant man.. black panther added to the crew? i would assume everyone would probably thrown at thanos like the comic?

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Old 08-19-2014, 02:55 PM   #10
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Default Re: After Avengers 3 - enter New Avengers??

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XMFC scores points for *both* the recast-is-good and recast-is-bad crowd. On the one hand, they successfully recast several core characters (Charles, Erik, Mystique, Beast) *and* introduced a largely brand-new team to audiences.
Again, I hear what you're saying, but it's fair to say X 1 to 3 are basically Wolverine fests, yet people still went to see an X-Men movie without him, for me only Professor X, Magneto and Mystique are valid in your point, Beast was introduced in X3 and wasn't 'a first stringer' as you put it, yet is quite popular and one of the main characters.
I can't deny the involvement of Professor X, Magneto and Mystique playing a part in people's interest in First Class, but I also can't deny that it was similar as to what we may see in future Avengers movies, granted XFS is a prequel, but it was a retooling of the franchise and financially it did fine, even without Wolverine. Whilst future Avengers movies may not feature 'first stringers', it's still gonna have the same themes and settings, and more importantly it's gonna have 'The Avengers' before the secondary title as the movie name, I can't see people ignoring that to be honest.

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Old 08-19-2014, 06:00 PM   #11
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Default Re: After Avengers 3 - enter New Avengers??

If people can handle all of those James Bond recasts then they can handle any recast really. But with so many different Avengers out there. They can just add in new characters rather then recast

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Old 08-19-2014, 06:52 PM   #12
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Default Re: After Avengers 3 - enter New Avengers??

I hope that they will recast the big 4 if necessary, rather than switching them out. I think the Avengers is a more interesting and fun group with them around. Bucky taking the mantle of Cap is the one exception, but that should still only be temporary.

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Old 08-23-2014, 02:46 PM   #13
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Default Re: After Avengers 3 - enter New Avengers??

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Originally Posted by cherokeesam View Post
Introducing brand new characters as part of a brand new franchise and gambling on a new fanbase (i.e., GOTG) is one thing; introducing brand new characters and/or "second stringers" into an existing franchise that got popular off first-stringers who are no longer around is a far different-colored horse.

Making, say, a GOTG2 that kicked Quill, Rocket and Groot aside for Moondragon, Phyla, and Adam Warlock doesn't make sense. Just as it doesn't make sense to kick Cap, Tony and Thor aside to make Wanda, Pietro and T'Challa the leads. The math doesn't add up.
By the time Avengers 4 rolls around, audiences could be well prepared for a new version of the team. Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, and Vision will have been Avengers for 2 movies already, Ant-Man, Giant-Man, and Wasp may have already made the team, and Black Panther and Ms. Marvel could have had their own solo debut films. It all depends on how well those characters are received. People forget that Iron Man and Thor weren't really on the tip of public consciousness before their movies came out. And while mostly everyone knew the names Captain America and Hulk, they didn't really care all that much.

I could totally see an Avengers 4 roster that included Ms. Marvel, Black Panther, Ant-Man, Giant-Man, Wasp, Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, The Vision, and Hawkeye (wouldn't it be funny if he was always there?). Sure, it sounds like a B-version of the team now, but give them time to all be the stars of mega huge blockbusters, and it won't look that way when the time comes.

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Old 08-23-2014, 03:01 PM   #14
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Default Re: After Avengers 3 - enter New Avengers??

We haven't even gotten to AOU yet. Can we get through that plus phase three and A3 first before worrying about what's after that? Haha. We are talking about yearssss down the road here.

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Old 08-23-2014, 03:59 PM   #15
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Default Re: After Avengers 3 - enter New Avengers??

I doubt that all of the heavy hitters will leave the team. Back in the early 90s, the X-Men took over as Marvel's biggest franchise since first Spider-Man, Namor, Quicksilver, Hank Pym, Wasp and Moon Knight left the Avengers titles, then after Galactic Storm, Captain America, Thor, She-Hulk and Iron Man were no longer Avengers.

So when the only relatively popular characters left were Black Widow, Black Knight, Hawkeye, War Machine and Vision, it's easy to see why the X-Men were everywhere in the 90s. And in the place of the more popular characters, Crystal and Sersi joined the team when they were already established members of other teams, namely the Inhumans and Eternals who both could have been the face of their own team title but were written into Avengers to bail the title out of a sub-par roster.

That plus new heroes who nobody really cared about being added to the Avengers like Thunderstrike, Century, Moonraker, Rage and Deathcry. There were some diamonds in the rough like Cybermancer, Darkhawk and Magdalene but compared to the five new additions listed above, the Avengers were really in such a rut that the only way to bring sales back up was to reintroduce Captain America and Hank Pym back onto the team while revamping the West Coast team under the new name Force Works and putting Iron Man back on the team.

Then there was the marketing. In the Iron Man animated series the West Coast Avengers/Force Works were renamed the Armory Team, the Captain America and the Avengers game featured Vision and Hawkeye instead of the more popular Spider-Man and Thor on the team and Avengers in Galactic Storm made Iron Man, Vision and Thor unplayable while Thunderstrike was playable. That's right. Thunderstrike was considered a more important asset to Marvel's marketing team than Iron Man or Thor back in the early 90s.

Then when Marvel decided to bring their heavy hitters back, some really terrible ideas came about like giving War Machine goofy looking alien armor, having Thor in a skimpy bondage outfit and turning Wasp into an insect. This all culminated in Tony Stark turning evil and then being replaced with his teenage self. (I still treat The Crossing as a guiolty pleasure since the art is incredible and the redesigns for Scarlet Witch and Hawkeye were actually pretty good.) This necessitated the team being killed off during a crossover with the X-Men and then going through a hard reboot which flopped spectacularly due to Rob Liefeld's overly sexualized Captain America which caused Marvel to reboot the team AGAIN in the main continuity with Kurt Busiek bringing the team back to life in an incredibly confusing way.

That said, I love Kurt Busiek's run and he really made the Avengers awesome again from 1997-2004. But Busiek was only able to do what he did because the franchise had hit rock bottom and was even good enough to get a cartoon greenlit with an accompanying action figure line.

And after Busiek left, Geoff Johns kept the heavy hitters on the team and after Chuck Austen ruined a few characters, Bendis only had to reveal that Hank Pym was a skrull, write Scarlet Witch off the title and temporarily kill Hawkeye. All of which he later undid during his tenure when the taste of Chuck Austen was washed out of everyone's mouth.

Point being. Bendis was able to get rid of the characters that Chuck Austen crapped all over because there were still enough heavy hitters left from Busiek and Johns to play around with and when they were introduced, they were back to being well-written while Bendis brought Spider-Man back onto the team and introduced Luke Cage, Iron Fist and Wolverine while slowly reintroducing characters from the team's past over nearly a decade.

The Avengers need familiar characters. Without them, they aren't Earth's Mightiest Heroes, they're just Marvel's leftovers. If Marvel were to ditch everyone from Phase 1, we'd only have Ms Marvel, Black Panther and Blade as the only A-listers and Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver and Vision as supporting cast since all the street level heroes will be Defenders instead. So think about that. Instead of allowing the franchise to grow, Marvel will be focusing on only three stand-alone properties.

I'd much rather see the Avengers get broken into two teams after Phase 3 to deal with all the new blood.

Mighty Avengers: Captain America, Quicksilver, Ant-Man, Iron Fist, Thor, Falcon, Luke Cage, Jessica Jones, Darkhawk, Crystal, Black Panther, Namor, Winter Soldier and if Marvel can get the rights back Spider-Man

West Coast Avengers: Iron Man, Hulk, Ms Marvel, Scarlet Witch, Hawkeye, Wasp, War Machine, Tigra, Black Widow, Daredevil, Moon Knight, Sersi, Medusa, Blade and Vision

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Old 08-24-2014, 01:50 AM   #16
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Default Re: After Avengers 3 - enter New Avengers??

Nah....

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Old 08-24-2014, 08:53 AM   #17
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Default Re: After Avengers 3 - enter New Avengers??

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Originally Posted by iambranded View Post
Not sure if this was thrown out for discussion
Avengers big 3 (Cap, Iron Man & Thor) will probably be the final movie with these heavy hitters... my question.......

Can and will the Avengers survive and continue to be a blockbuster movie hit without the big 3.....maybe 4 including the Hulk
Can they survive? Sure. Can they make as much money and have as much appeal? Nah. That's why A3 probably won't be the final movie with those heavy hitters. There's more money in recasting than legacy characters. A James Franco Iron Man movie is still going to be more popular than a Chadwick Boseman Black Panther movie, even though RDJ isn't Iron Man. Also there's the small issue where the Chrises probably won't stop at Avengers 3 anyway.

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Originally Posted by Dasher10 View Post
I doubt that all of the heavy hitters will leave the team. Back in the early 90s, the X-Men took over as Marvel's biggest franchise since first Spider-Man, Namor, Quicksilver, Hank Pym, Wasp and Moon Knight left the Avengers titles, then after Galactic Storm, Captain America, Thor, She-Hulk and Iron Man were no longer Avengers.

...

Point being. Bendis was able to get rid of the characters that Chuck Austen crapped all over because there were still enough heavy hitters left from Busiek and Johns to play around with and when they were introduced, they were back to being well-written while Bendis brought Spider-Man back onto the team and introduced Luke Cage, Iron Fist and Wolverine while slowly reintroducing characters from the team's past over nearly a decade.

The Avengers need familiar characters. Without them, they aren't Earth's Mightiest Heroes, they're just Marvel's leftovers. If Marvel were to ditch everyone from Phase 1, we'd only have Ms Marvel, Black Panther and Blade as the only A-listers and Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver and Vision as supporting cast since all the street level heroes will be Defenders instead. So think about that. Instead of allowing the franchise to grow, Marvel will be focusing on only three stand-alone properties.

I'd much rather see the Avengers get broken into two teams after Phase 3 to deal with all the new blood.

Mighty Avengers: Captain America, Quicksilver, Ant-Man, Iron Fist, Thor, Falcon, Luke Cage, Jessica Jones, Darkhawk, Crystal, Black Panther, Namor, Winter Soldier and if Marvel can get the rights back Spider-Man

West Coast Avengers: Iron Man, Hulk, Ms Marvel, Scarlet Witch, Hawkeye, Wasp, War Machine, Tigra, Black Widow, Daredevil, Moon Knight, Sersi, Medusa, Blade and Vision
This was a really good post, dude.

I'd love to see the Avengers movie kind of do that where you lose some of the heavy hitters for a bit so that Avengers have to focus on the New Avengers for a bit as they pull back together for Avengers 5. I'd love to see Captain America's series kinda become the Secret Avengers series while Iron Man's series kinda becomes the Mighty Avengers series. I think that'd be cool. Then when the main Avengers movie comes around, you have a mega team up. In fact, taking all the franchises in the team up direction could be cool. Dr. Strange becomes more and more Midnight Sons, Black Panther takes on all the (available) New Avengers as supporting cast... or maybe Inhumans does.

Somehow I don't see Darkhawk, Tigra, Sersi or Namor in the near future, and I think the Defenders won't be Avengers.

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