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View Poll Results: So this movie should really be called...
Superman vs Batman (or Batman vs Superman) 9 5.49%
World's finest 64 39.02%
Superman/Batman: World's finest 39 23.78%
Man of steel: world's finest 21 12.80%
Man of tomorrow 7 4.27%
Superman: shadow of the bat 4 2.44%
Man of steel: gods among us 2 1.22%
other 18 10.98%
Voters: 164. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-30-2013, 09:49 AM   #651
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Default Re: Batman Vs Superman: can't we find a better title than that? Any suggestions?

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Originally Posted by The Boy Scout View Post
No, it's not. I concede that point.
This was the point I inadequately was trying to make. The title is very important to making a film. It should almost invoke the movie without being told. Example: The Hangover. Just with this title you can pretty much see the movie without being told. Someone is going to get drunk and crazy stuff happens.
World's Finest does not invoke Batman and Superman teaming up to anyone but comic book fans. Does it mean chocolate? Does it mean coffee? Is it about police?
Batman vs. Superman tells non comic book people what this movie is about. "Holy hell Batman and Superman fighting."
Is it the best title...no not by a long shot but its the best one they could come up with.
I can guarantee that if Marvel got all of its properties back and wanted to do a movie with Wolverine and the Hulk or Spider-man and Wolverine...the movie would not be called Marvel Team-Ups.

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Old 09-30-2013, 11:31 AM   #652
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Default Re: Batman Vs Superman: can't we find a better title than that? Any suggestions?

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Originally Posted by The Boy Scout View Post
They really aren't, and I've already explained why. If there are any I've missed (which is totally possible), please share them with me.
Yes they are.
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Originally Posted by The Boy Scout View Post
Or they just aren't logical.
They are.
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Originally Posted by The Boy Scout View Post
I never said it was.
You implied that it was, though this might have been an error on your part.
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Originally Posted by The Boy Scout View Post
Not at all. The intention is to explain why it is a viable option (among many).
So far, you have yet to act on your intention.

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Originally Posted by The Boy Scout View Post
I do want to point out that my intention was to explain why it would make perfect sense for it to be the title. I was never trying to argue that it was the best title.
Is it still your intention?

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Old 09-30-2013, 11:34 AM   #653
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Default Re: Batman Vs Superman: can't we find a better title than that? Any suggestions?

I honestly believe the title will be World's Finest I don't want it to be believe me I hate it as as title but...


I like Batman Vs Superman short to the point and intriguing

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Old 09-30-2013, 11:45 AM   #654
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Default Re: Batman Vs Superman: can't we find a better title than that? Any suggestions?

Everyone's all gung-ho about the castings and what not. That will take care of itself, obviously, but I'm chomping at the bit for an official title before anything else right now.

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Old 09-30-2013, 11:54 AM   #655
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Default Re: Batman Vs Superman: can't we find a better title than that? Any suggestions?

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Everyone's all gung-ho about the castings and what not. That will take care of itself, obviously, but I'm chomping at the bit for an official title before anything else right now.

I kind of want an official title too

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Old 09-30-2013, 03:42 PM   #656
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Default Re: Batman Vs Superman: can't we find a better title than that? Any suggestions?

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Originally Posted by roach View Post
It should almost invoke the movie without being told.
Again: you're giving the title way too much importance. Would anyone have known what MOS was about if they hadn't been told?

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World's Finest does not invoke Batman and Superman teaming up to anyone but comic book fans.
You don't think the general audience would be able to figure it out?

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Does it mean chocolate? Does it mean coffee? Is it about police?
Seriously?

What was MOS about? A rogue Terminator?

What was Blade about? A sword?

What was The Fantastic Four about? The Musketeers (plus one)?

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Batman vs. Superman...Is it the best title...no not by a long shot but its the best one they could come up with.
Not even close.

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I can guarantee that if Marvel got all of its properties back and wanted to do a movie with Wolverine and the Hulk or Spider-man and Wolverine...the movie would not be called Marvel Team-Ups.
That might be because that isn't the actual name of any of those specific team-ups.

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Originally Posted by regwec View Post
Yes they are.
Sure.

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You implied that it was, though this might have been an error on your part.
Or you just made an assumption without bothering to see if you were correct.

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So far, you have yet to act on your intention.
It doesn't seem like you've been paying attention.

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Is it still your intention?
Oh yes.

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Old 09-30-2013, 03:58 PM   #657
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Default Re: Batman Vs Superman: can't we find a better title than that? Any suggestions?

We can joke around and discuss this til the cows come home, but the title isn't a big deal. I would be fine with World's Finest but I would also fine with using the names.

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Old 09-30-2013, 04:02 PM   #658
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Default Re: Batman Vs Superman: can't we find a better title than that? Any suggestions?

I haven't seen one suggested title that I liked. "Batman vs. Superman" & "Superman vs. Batman" turn me off, and "World's Finest" is just too cheesy for my tastes. No doubt the Superman shield-plus-Bat-logo will be the centerpiece of all marketing materials, but I can't for the life of me think of what would make a good title.

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Old 09-30-2013, 04:13 PM   #659
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Default Re: Batman Vs Superman: can't we find a better title than that? Any suggestions?

MOS 2: When Bruce Came A-Knockin'.

Batman and His Amazing Friend.

The Superhero Hangover.

Superman: Batman.

Justice League: The Prequel.

All better than either WF or B v. S.

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Old 09-30-2013, 04:14 PM   #660
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Default Re: Batman Vs Superman: can't we find a better title than that? Any suggestions?

Superman's nickname Man of Steel has been public knowledge since the beginning. It's beyond comic fans. My grandmother knew Superman is called the man of steel way before the movie came out.
Yes the movie was called Blade, since that was the name of the main character and not Tomb of Dracula, the name of the comic he appeared in. Same with Avengers, FF, Xmen, TMNT, Three Musketeers or Youngblood. Those are the names of the teams. They actively call themselves this name.
It's why they don't name Amazing Spider-man Amazing Fantasy,
Or Thor Journey into Mystery
Or Iron Man called Tales of Suspense
Or Batman called Detective Comics
Or Superman called Action comics
Maybe Wonder Woman's movie should be called All Star Comics
Maybe Green Lantern should be called All American comics

I am a screenwriter in Hollywood. I can't tell you how many times producers tell me the title is everything. Titles are changed all the time. Execs want a title that pops. Worlds Finest doesn't pop. Notice how none of the people attached to this film have referred to it as Worlds Finest.

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Old 09-30-2013, 04:30 PM   #661
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Default Re: Batman Vs Superman: can't we find a better title than that? Any suggestions?

You might as well call it Batman and Superman because that is what most people will refer io it as I guess.

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Old 09-30-2013, 04:36 PM   #662
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Default Re: Batman Vs Superman: can't we find a better title than that? Any suggestions?

It will more then likely be titled Batman Vs Superman and I am ok with that

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Old 09-30-2013, 04:45 PM   #663
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Default Re: Batman Vs Superman: can't we find a better title than that? Any suggestions?

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You might as well call it Batman and Superman because that is what most people will refer io it as I guess.
This

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Old 09-30-2013, 04:48 PM   #664
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Default Re: Batman Vs Superman: can't we find a better title than that? Any suggestions?

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Originally Posted by roach View Post
Are you being silly on purpose?
Are you?

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Superman's nickname Man of Steel has been public knowledge since the beginning. It's beyond comic fans.
You sure about that? I recall many posters here saying that their friends and family had no idea that MOS was a Superman film.

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Yes the movie was called Blade, since that was the name of the main character and not Tomb of Dracula, the name of the comic he appeared in.
You completely missed the point. Would anyone have guessed that the film was about a vampire hunter named Blade if they hadn't been told? Probably not.

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Same with Avengers
A great example of a cheesy title given meaning by the film itself.

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FF
See the response to Blade.

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Xmen, TMNT, Three Musketeers...
Groups that were and are known to the GA. What else would you have called them?

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Those are the names of the teams. They actively call themselves this name.
Since Batman and Superman don't actually call themselves anything when they team up (why would they?), it makes perfect sense to me to title the film about them teaming up the name commonly associated with their teaming up. The fact that it was the name of the book they starred in isn't important; it gained a different meaning over time and that's what's relevant to the discussion.

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I am a screenwriter in Hollywood. I can't tell you how many times producers tell me the title is everything.
Producers have been known to overestimate the importance of certain things to the audience. I'd be willing to bet the title isn't quite as important as they might lead you to believe.

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Execs want a title that pops. Worlds Finest doesn't pop.
Says who? You?

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Notice how none of the people attached to this film have referred to it as Worlds Finest.
Notice how the film doesn't actually have an official title yet. Being a screenwriter in Hollywood, you should know that anything is possible at this stage.

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Old 09-30-2013, 05:34 PM   #665
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Default Re: Batman Vs Superman: can't we find a better title than that? Any suggestions?

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Are you?

You are trying to sell us on this notion that no one outside of comic fans know that Superman is called the Man of Steel.


You completely missed the point. Would anyone have guessed that the film was about a vampire hunter named Blade if they hadn't been told? Probably not.
The characters name is Blade. There is literally no better other name to call the movie. He is called Blade in the movie. The title Blade invokes action and sword play...which is what the movie had.


A great example of a cheesy title given meaning by the film itself.

Again Avengers is the name of the team. They are called The Avengers in the movie. Marvel gave meaning to that name back in Iron Man.



Groups that were and are known to the GA. What else would you have called them?

Exactly they are called by their names. Batman and Superman are not called World's Finest.


Producers have been known to overestimate the importance of certain things to the audience. I'd be willing to bet the title isn't quite as important as they might lead you to believe.

Yes it does. The fact that this thread is going on for so long is why its important. Marvel changed the name of Captain America to First Avenger in some countries because they thought the name would turn people off. And I am sure you'll try to use that as an example but by the time Captain America had come out we were in the midst of a full blow Avengers hype....incidently maybe this is why this is the lowest grossing MCU film.

Says who? You?

Says everyone I talk to. This is why the GA has never seen a movie called "We can remember it for you wholesale", the original title for Total Recall or "Do Androids dream of electric sheep" the original title for Blade Runner. The original title to "Scream" was called "Scary Movie" but it was deemed to comedic. "While You were Sleeping" was originally called "Coma Guy".


Notice how the film doesn't actually have an official title yet. Being a screenwriter in Hollywood, you should know that anything is possible at this stage.
The studio head called it Batman vs Superman. Im pretty sure that about as official as it gets. Batman vs Superman pops better than World's Finest. It doesn't resonate. It doesn't tell you a thing about the movie. Batman vs Superman plays so well...it tells you so much.
Superman is in the movie.
Batman is in the movie.
...and they are gonna fight.
World's Finest can be anything.

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Old 09-30-2013, 05:44 PM   #666
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Default Re: Batman Vs Superman: can't we find a better title than that? Any suggestions?

This is Goyer on why the movie is called Man of Steel: "I would say that the marketing began early on in that we decided not to call it Superman, that was very deliberate.

That was Chris [Nolan] and I, said Man Of Steel, and Warner Bros. said, ‘Why?' And we started talking about it, and we said, ‘We want a line of demarcation in the sand between the old and the new.’ We always knew we would be using the Superman glyph or the shield as we call it. But Man Of Steel was also supposed to represent our take, which was he’s a man, but he’s not made of flesh and blood, metaphorically he’s a man of steel. So that was sort of like the whole thing wrapped up in a nutshell."

Movie titles matter

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Old 09-30-2013, 05:45 PM   #667
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Default Re: Batman Vs Superman: can't we find a better title than that? Any suggestions?

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The studio head called it Batman vs Superman. Im pretty sure that about as official as it gets. Batman vs Superman pops better than World's Finest. It doesn't resonate. It doesn't tell you a thing about the movie. Batman vs Superman plays so well...it tells you so much.
Superman is in the movie.
Batman is in the movie.
...and they are gonna fight.
World's Finest can be anything.
Agreed Man I would love it if the title is Batman vs Superman we haven't had a film with Batman in the title since 2005 and for Superman 2007?

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Old 09-30-2013, 05:50 PM   #668
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Default Re: Batman Vs Superman: can't we find a better title than that? Any suggestions?

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Originally Posted by The Boy Scout View Post
Irrelevant.



What?

People have been using that title in reference to Batman and Superman teaming up for years now. There's nothing ''retroactive'' about any of this.



I disagree.



Again: the films gives the title meaning; not the other way around.



Except the one we're talking about, you mean.

EDIT: Sorry, accidentally deleted this part.

The keyword there being "if". We don't know yet if the film is actually all about them fighting each other. I think it's more likely to be about them putting their differences aside and working together to defeat a common enemy.
Do me a favour, if you're going to reply to something I wrote don't break it up into multiple quotes, you won't get a response from me.

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Old 09-30-2013, 05:59 PM   #669
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Default Re: Batman Vs Superman: can't we find a better title than that? Any suggestions?

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Movie titles matter
100% correct, anyone who thinks World's Finest is a strong title needs to have a long hard look at themselves in the mirror. It is weak, it has no punch, it's like the Bond film Quantum of Solace, I recall numerous times Daniel Craig being interviewed having to explain the meaning of the title. Just because it has a connection to the source material doesn't mean it should be used. World's Finest has been adopted by the fan base as the title, it's never been the name given to Batman and Superman.

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Old 09-30-2013, 06:07 PM   #670
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Default Re: Batman Vs Superman: can't we find a better title than that? Any suggestions?

That's a good comparison, though "Quantum of Solace" does at least succinctly capture an evocative concept.

"World's Finest" is conceptually empty and emotionally sterile. You may as well call it "Really Good."

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Old 09-30-2013, 06:15 PM   #671
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Default Re: Batman Vs Superman: can't we find a better title than that? Any suggestions?

Plus the old adage be carefull what you wish for in 2007 I wanted Bond 22 to be called Quantum of Solace no idea why I just loved the title... 5 years later I am still paying for it.... sigh

I think a more adept comparison is The Hildebrand Rarity

could THR be used for bond 24 Sure absolutely but I don't think it will

Could World's finest be the title of Untitled Batman/superman film of course will it nah

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Old 09-30-2013, 06:18 PM   #672
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Default Re: Batman Vs Superman: can't we find a better title than that? Any suggestions?

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That's a good comparison, though "Quantum of Solace" does at least succinctly capture an evocative concept.

"World's Finest" is conceptually empty and emotionally sterile. You may as well call it "Really Good."
QoS might indeed capture a concept more so than World Finest but if you're still having to explain what it means then it's a bad title. As you say World's Finest is sterile - it's a bad title.

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Old 09-30-2013, 06:41 PM   #673
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Default Re: Batman Vs Superman: can't we find a better title than that? Any suggestions?

Say whatever you want, but outsider english speaking languages Quantum of Solace sounded like a really cool title

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Old 09-30-2013, 06:41 PM   #674
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Default Re: Batman Vs Superman: can't we find a better title than that? Any suggestions?

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You are trying to sell us on this notion that no one outside of comic fans know that Superman is called the Man of Steel/
For the most part, yeah. But now that the film's been released, everyone knows it.

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The characters name is Blade. There is literally no better other name to call the movie.
Again: that isn't the point. You (more or less) said that the title is supposed to inform the audience what the film is about without any extra help. Blade could have easily been a film about a group of warriors going on a quest to find a magic sword.

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Blade invokes action and sword play...which is what the movie had.
But what the movie is about is a half-vampire vampire hunter. The action and swordplay come from that premise, and according to you, it's the premise that the title should inform the viewer of.

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Again Avengers is the name of the team.
And World's Finest is the name of the Batman/Superman team-up, even if it isn't technically official (that is, they aren't called that in the stories they appear in).

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They are called The Avengers in the movie. Marvel gave meaning to that name back in Iron Man.
Wrong. They gave meaning to the name when they made the movie. Telling the audience what something is and having that something mean something aren't the same thing.

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Yes it does. The fact that this thread is going on for so long is why its important.
Not really. There are threads that feature pages and pages of discussion about Cavill's hair, of all things. We obsess over every detail because that's what we do.

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Marvel changed the name of Captain America to First Avenger in some countries because they thought the name would turn people off.
I'm not saying titles aren't important at all; just that you seem to overestimate their importance. Also: do you honestly think "World's Finest" is at risk of turning foreigners off as much as "Captain America"?

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Says everyone I talk to.
And you believe your social circle is 100% representative of everyone who's going to see this movie?

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This is why the GA has never seen a movie called "We can remember it for you wholesale", the original title for Total Recall or "Do Androids dream of electric sheep" the original title for Blade Runner. The original title to "Scream" was called "Scary Movie" but it was deemed to comedic. "While You were Sleeping" was originally called "Coma Guy".
I don't see how WF is even half as ridiculous as any of those other titles. Besides: as many examples as you can find of "dumb" movie titles that turned people off, I'm sure you could find plenty that did the opposite.

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The studio head called it Batman vs Superman.
He did. Probably because that's what most people are calling it, even though it doesn't have an official title yet. If it did, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

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Batman vs Superman pops better than World's Finest.
You keep saying that like it's a fact.

Batman vs. Superman sounds incredibly gimmicky and uncreative. It sounds like something a thirteen-year-old boy would come up with because he thinks it sound cool.

See what I did there?

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It doesn't tell you a thing about the movie.
I'm getting tired of repeating myself, so I'm going to say it just once more: the movie gives meaning to the title, not the other way around.

Even so: it tells the audience what they need to know without beating them over the head with it. What's the movie about? The best of the best. The cream of the crop. The finest our planet has to offer.

"The finest what?"

"Watch the trailer."

"Oh ****. I get it!"

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Do me a favour, if you're going to reply to something I wrote don't break it up into multiple quotes, you won't get a response from me.
Conversation over then.

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Old 09-30-2013, 06:45 PM   #675
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Default Re: Batman Vs Superman: can't we find a better title than that? Any suggestions?

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100% correct, anyone who thinks World's Finest is a strong title needs to have a long hard look at themselves in the mirror.
I didn't know it was that serious.

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