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Old 07-27-2013, 03:57 PM   #126
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Because Kevin Feige said in an interview that to you need a big threat to assemble the Avengers so itīs not like they are gonna live in the Avengers mansion and fight crime on daily basis. Hawkeye and Widow are prolly away on missions. Thor is in Asgard. Stark and Banner are probably working together and god guy Cap could be around, even if it feels as if he is going to be on mission as well.

We know that Ultron will assemble the Avengers, they are not likely to be assembled before, which means not more than 2-3 can have a hand in it. Even if they were assembled it wouldnīt be as long as it takes to build Ultron, that project would require them to actively be together.

I agree that it is possible and I wouldnīt mind it. But when are they doing the project together (even if it is not all of em)?

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Old 07-27-2013, 03:59 PM   #127
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Also, A lot of people said Iron Man 3 didn't do anything to push the MCU along, but that was with the notion that Phase 2 would be cosmic and that Thanos would be the main villain. Iron Man 3's place in the MCU makes a lot more sense now that we know that's not the case.
Yes. When the movie first came out I was really confused because both RDJ and Feige said IM3 did the most to set up future films than any project they had done so far. And other than Extremis I really didn't see it. But now it makes sense.

-AIM
-Extremis
-Tony creating armor that can operate remotely through Jarvis
-Roxxon Oil working with AIM/"Mandarin"
-Tony being set up as a guy obsessed with tinkering
-Tony deciding to hang up the armor and put his efforts toward "other things"

All of these are things that could and probably will factor into Age of Ultron.

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In regards to this idea: So now we'd be throwing just about everything written about the character out the window in addition to not including Pym. At what point does this become the "Avengers" in title only? Is Fox making this movie now?

And strongly disagree that this is a better idea than the plots that Avengers writers have established over the past fifty years. Typical hollywood arrogance.
Have you been watching these films? You talk like Marvel has never changed characters or elements before. Almost nothing stays exactly as it was in the comics. SHIELD is not the same. Iron Man is not the same. Captain America is not the same. Black Widow is not the same. Hawkeye is not the same. Thor sure as hell is not the same. AIM is not the same. etc. etc. What Marvel does keep though, by and large, are the essence of the characters.

Ultron being created by the Avengers is the only prerequisite for the character (along with being, you know, a robot). And what they're doing is only strengthening that aspect. So there is no need to make him a Pym baby or even have all the ridiculous family problem stuff, because that was built overtime and they would never be able to properly adapt that in a 2hr 30min movie. They were never going to keep that stuff. What they can do is make the Avengers themselves his "family". They're doing things that work for the movie. This is not the same as Fox throwing in a bunch of character cameos and killing off fan favorite characters for no reason in a botched storyline adaptation of two of the most iconic story arcs in comic book history. No comic book movie is going to adapt a storyline word for word, and that is especially impossible when it comes to Ultron.

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Old 07-27-2013, 04:04 PM   #128
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Have you been watching these films? You talk like Marvel has never changed characters or elements before. Almost nothing stays exactly as it was in the comics. SHIELD is not the same. Iron Man is not the same. Captain America is not the same. Black Widow is not the same. Hawkeye is not the same. Thor sure as hell is not the same. AIM is not the same. etc. etc. What Marvel does keep though, by and large, are the essence of the characters.

Ultron being created by the Avengers is the only prerequisite for the character (along with being, you know, a robot). And what they're doing is only strengthening that aspect. So there is no need to make him a Pym baby or even have all the ridiculous family problem stuff, because that was built overtime and they would never be able to properly adapt that in a 2hr 30min movie. They were never going to keep that stuff. What they can do is make the Avengers themselves his "family". They're doing things that work for the movie. This is not the same as Fox throwing in a bunch of character cameos and killing off fan favorite characters for no reason in a botched storyline adaptation of two of the most iconic story arcs in comic book history. No comic book movie is going to adapt a storyline word for word, and that is especially impossible when it comes to Ultron.
I understand what you're saying and I agree to a certain extent. But the comment about a more accurate adaptation being impossible is absolutely 100% wrong. Marvel/Whedon could include Pym - they don't want too. That's a decision that many (including myself) do not and will not agree with. This is a time when agree to disagree applies.

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Old 07-27-2013, 04:05 PM   #129
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 4 -

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At what point does this become the "Avengers" in title only? Is Fox making this movie now?
They're only changing one aspect of one character. Was the first Avengers movie Avengers in name only because it wasn't the original team?

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And strongly disagree that this is a better idea than the plots that Avengers writers have established over the past fifty years. Typical hollywood arrogance. Let's fix what was never broken.
It's not broken in the comics, but it would be in a film. Hank Pym will not be properly introduced until after The Avengers 2. It just would not make sense to introduce him in the film just to create Ultron. That would be lame. It's not Hollywood arrogance, this is really the only option if Joss Whedon wants to create his story without everything getting muddled.

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Old 07-27-2013, 04:27 PM   #130
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Yes Mr.Dent.

I think we will just have to accept the fact that Pym probably wonīt play a big part in this. Atm I feel like we need more solid "leads". Itīs impossible to figure out what will go down.

I think we know that project Ultron is not going to be about making him crazy, but helpful. Then someting goes wrong. So what I find interesting is, why build him? Whatīs the motiv exactly?

I think the motive is to make an A.I much like Jarvis, to help S.H.I.E.L.D fight le crime. They ask Tony and Banner to help em. They use Bannerīs brain patterns to make it. Bad idea. Ultron gives in to the "Hulk smash" part of the brain. Thatīs one way to make the threat come from within the house.

Seriously, I really believe this is what will happen. It doesnīt have to be S.H.I.E.L.D that start this project, it could be Stark industries thatīs behind it but it would take some of the blame from Tony and Bruce if the council asked S.H.I.E.L.D for Ultron and then somehow "abuse" the Ultron until it snaps. So itīs a combination of an misscalc from 2 avengers and the missuse of the Ultron authorized by the council.

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Old 07-27-2013, 04:30 PM   #131
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Something tells me the Avengers and SHIELD won't be on good terms come A2.

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Old 07-27-2013, 04:35 PM   #132
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Something tells me the Avengers and SHIELD won't be on good terms come A2.
Which would be okay. Independence is a big part of Avengers lore. Being government affiliated was a major theme of the Avengers in the early 2000s. It didn't work out well at all...

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Old 07-27-2013, 05:23 PM   #133
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Yes Mr.Dent.

I think we will just have to accept the fact that Pym probably wonīt play a big part in this. Atm I feel like we need more solid "leads". Itīs impossible to figure out what will go down.

I think we know that project Ultron is not going to be about making him crazy, but helpful. Then someting goes wrong. So what I find interesting is, why build him? Whatīs the motiv exactly?

I think the motive is to make an A.I much like Jarvis, to help S.H.I.E.L.D fight le crime. They ask Tony and Banner to help em. They use Bannerīs brain patterns to make it. Bad idea. Ultron gives in to the "Hulk smash" part of the brain. Thatīs one way to make the threat come from within the house.

Seriously, I really believe this is what will happen. It doesnīt have to be S.H.I.E.L.D that start this project, it could be Stark industries thatīs behind it but it would take some of the blame from Tony and Bruce if the council asked S.H.I.E.L.D for Ultron and then somehow "abuse" the Ultron until it snaps. So itīs a combination of an misscalc from 2 avengers and the missuse of the Ultron authorized by the council.
Ohh, and one more thing. It is possible that the creation of Ultron begins in Cap TWS. That is why I also believe that AIM who has infilitrated the government/the council will be behind the creation of Ultron. Arnim Zola could build Ultron. If it was based on this brain patterns, that could explain Ultron going crazy. It wouldnīt be the first time a mad scientist made something he couldnīt control.

This is my second theory, canīt tell which one is more likely to happen atm.

And yes, I just quoated myself.

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Old 07-27-2013, 05:35 PM   #134
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AIM shouldn't be behind the creation of Ultron. It should be mostly all the Avengers fault. I think AIM will have some kind of role in the film that may segway with Ultron, but they shouldn't be the ones to actually create him. I also think the only role Cap 2 will have in setting up A2 is setting the stage for it (like, the situation and alliances that will be present when A2 begins). I don't think there will be much in the way that leads to creating Ultron in the film. I believe most of the "set up", if you can call it that, for that was in IM3.

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Old 07-27-2013, 05:40 PM   #135
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AIM shouldn't be behind the creation of Ultron. It should be mostly all the Avengers fault. I think AIM will have some kind of role in the film that may segway with Ultron, but they shouldn't be the ones to actually create him. I also think the only role Cap 2 will have in setting up A2 is setting the stage for it (like, the situation and alliances that will be present when A2 begins). I don't think there will be much in the way that leads to creating Ultron in the film. I believe most of the "set up", if you can call it that, for that was in IM3.
Ironically, Captain America and Iron Man are the two Avengers who had the least influence/personal connection to/on Ultron.

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Old 07-27-2013, 05:41 PM   #136
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Ironically, Captain America and Iron Man are the two Avengers who had the least influence/personal connection to/on Ultron.
I don't know about that. Ultron has shown up several times in IM's own comic, and Ultron has used him more than once to do his bidding, so he does seem to have a personal connection.

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Old 07-27-2013, 05:48 PM   #137
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And if i recall correctly, Stark invented Ultron in the Next Avengers animated movie. So its not like Ultrons origin hasn't been altered before by Marvel

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Old 07-27-2013, 05:51 PM   #138
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I don't know about that. Ultron has shown up several times in IM's own comic, and Ultron has used him more than once to do his bidding, so he does seem to have a personal connection.
Using Iron Man's armor as a tool, nothing personal. It's a logical attack plan - not only do you take 1 hero off the board, you gain a powerful "ally too". Makes sense. However, while it was shown that Ultron hates the Avengers as a group out of some "daddy" issues expanded from Pym to his friends, there are several Avengers it has targeted specifically. He views the Avengers as his estranged family. Namely: Hank Pym is the "father", Janet Van Dyne is the "mother", Vision is the "son", Simon Williams and his brother are the adopted "nephew", and Wanda is the "daughter in law". Whedon might want to shy away from this level of weirdness.

EDIT: I know this is awkward but the comparisons were taken directly from the "Ultron Unlimited" story arc. Strange but good.

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Old 07-27-2013, 05:59 PM   #139
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Yep. This makes Ultron stronger as a villain and character.
Yep, just imagine that Ultron's daddy issue is now with the entire team of Avengers, and not with a character that hasn't been introduced to MCU yet.

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Old 07-27-2013, 06:07 PM   #140
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This Ultron stuff would be very hard to get right but would make for a much more interesting character & villain.

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Old 07-27-2013, 06:22 PM   #141
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AIM shouldn't be behind the creation of Ultron. It should be mostly all the Avengers fault. I think AIM will have some kind of role in the film that may segway with Ultron, but they shouldn't be the ones to actually create him. I also think the only role Cap 2 will have in setting up A2 is setting the stage for it (like, the situation and alliances that will be present when A2 begins). I don't think there will be much in the way that leads to creating Ultron in the film. I believe most of the "set up", if you can call it that, for that was in IM3.
It is possible what you say. I on the other hand do believe itīs very much possible for The Avengers to create Ultron and for AIM to be behind it.

If AIM infiltrates the gouvernment, then the council is not legit. S.H.I.E.L.D answer to them.

1. The council explains to Nick Fury that they now understand how helpless they are. They are now working on a project (Ultron). They have a lead scientist whoīs brain patterns is the very fundation of the A.I.

2. The genetic engineering (brain->machine science, dont know what to call it) is being handled but they need Starkīs hardware and maybe Banners tracking tech (idk what Banner brings to the table) and that they want cap to train it in martial arts (hand to hand combat)

3. Three avengers help build the hardware and teach it to fight.

4. Zola hope to control Ultron, but well Ultron is Ultron. He snaps instead of listening to whom he is programmed to listen to.

5. We have an evil mastermind robot with itīs own will.

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Old 07-27-2013, 06:24 PM   #142
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Itd bd an interesting dynamic to see ultron pissed at everyone, instead of juet one. Its better than him chasing after pym only.

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Old 07-27-2013, 06:42 PM   #143
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It is possible what you say. I on the other hand do believe itīs very much possible for The Avengers to create Ultron and for AIM to be behind it.

If AIM infiltrates the gouvernment, then the council is not legit. S.H.I.E.L.D answer to them.

1. The council explains to Nick Fury that they now understand how helpless they are. They are now working on a project (Ultron). They have a lead scientist whoīs brain patterns is the very fundation of the A.I.

2. The genetic engineering (brain->machine science, dont know what to call it) is being handled but they need Starkīs hardware and maybe Banners tracking tech (idk what Banner brings to the table) and that they want cap to train it in martial arts (hand to hand combat)

3. Three avengers help build the hardware and teach it to fight.

4. Zola hope to control Ultron, but well Ultron is Ultron. He snaps instead of listening to whom he is programmed to listen to.

5. We have an evil mastermind robot with itīs own will.
Don't read unless you want major Cap 2 spoilers.

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
HYDRA is the one revealed to have infiltrated the government (and SHIELD itself) in Cap 2. Jasper Sitwell, Alexander Pierce, and Senator Stern (from IM2) are all HYDRA. So AIM doing it would be redundant.


So that's another reason I don't think AIM would be behind it.

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Old 07-27-2013, 06:56 PM   #144
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So itīs impossible for
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:
AIM and Hydra
to work together?

Just read the begining of this this Mr.Dent (donīt open if you donīt want spoilers at all) http://marvel.com/universe/A.I.M.

Come on, itīs possible and you know it?

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Old 07-27-2013, 07:19 PM   #145
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Although I do think it's possible. I see where you're coming from. They do have connection in the comics.

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Old 07-27-2013, 08:44 PM   #146
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Whedon has said that Black Widow will play a "huge" role in the sequel. He says that he loves her because she's an anti-hero. I wonder if they will tie her past into Ultron somehow. As a huge BW fan, this news makes me very happy.
Yeah. If she won't get a solo film this "huge role" news pleases me. Especially when I saw people wondering if she'd even be in an Avengers follow-up. We have this one and Captain America 2. It will be interesting to see what happens there, how it sets up further films.

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Old 07-27-2013, 09:57 PM   #147
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I think one thing I don't understand is how Ultron is going to be set up? Loki was set up to be the villain of Marvel's The Avengers at the end of Thor. I know it's really early in Phase 2 but don't you guys think we would have had more of an Ultron set up in Iron Man 3? How are they going to finish an Ultron story in one film? It seems to me like it would be a bit rushed.

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Old 07-27-2013, 10:00 PM   #148
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Caps shield could have lot to do with a invincible Ultron. If Ultron copied his shield composition he could survive a Mjolnir blow. Since winter soldier has lot to do with this it has to happen in that film I think.

Only reason I bring this up is we haven't seen mention of Wakanda yet.

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Old 07-27-2013, 10:05 PM   #149
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Phase 2 has just begun plenty of time to set up A2 and Ultron, its already been said that Captain America: The Winter Soldier will be the most setup for Avengers: Age of Ultron.

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Old 07-27-2013, 10:11 PM   #150
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Does anyone think the Masters of Evil will play a role as well? Frank Grillo has already said he'll be in Avengers: Age of Ultron. Maybe we'll get Ultron assembling them to fight the Avengers while he searches for vibranium. He breaks them out of the Triskelion, which is going to be in Captain America: The Winter Soldier, and they all team up to take the Avengers on. We'll probably have Crossbones, The Abomination and The Leader locked up there. I think Arnim Zola and one of the Barons will be in Captain America: The Winter Soldier, so they could be possibilities. Batroc the Leaper, Justin Hammer and Red Skull are still in the MCU as far as we know. Final showdown being between Ultron (Vibranium version) and the Avengers.

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