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Old 08-12-2013, 11:31 AM   #301
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Jonathan Kent wasn't preparing his son to be a hero. He was a realist. Humans kill each other over skin color, religion and region they grew up in....what would they do to an alien?
agree in most of your argument except of pa kent not preparing his son to be a hero... I guess teaching the best values and in the conversation in the car he wanted to Clark help people but in most of the important issues like feeding them things that IN THAT TIME would not put his secret at risk... but intentionally he always was teaching him and giving good advices so he will become the hero we all know....

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Old 08-12-2013, 08:56 PM   #302
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Perhaps tornadoes move super fast in real life but in the movie it seemed like Clark had plenty of time to go help his father. Like when his father was struggling in the car trying to kick the door. Clark would have heard and seen him struggling, why didn't he go then? And then even after Jonathan started limping towards them, there still seemed to be enough time for Clark to just run over in normal speed. The distance between Jonathan and Clark just didn't seem that great in the movie, nor did the tornado seem to be moving all that fast.
Clark was still operating as a human at that point, and his father had just handed a little girl over to him, and given him the directive to protect her and Martha. Jonathan did NOT want Clark to show off who he was, and it was fairly clear to me that they were not immediately by the overpass. With debris and strong winds flying around, it would have been difficult to make a lot of headway back toward his father as a human. His dad knew that the tornado would not have as much (if any) effect on Clark, and didn't want people to get suspicious in any way about how different Clark is.

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But even if the movie had made it clear that it was impossible for Clark to help his dad without his powers, it is still unacceptable to me that Clark would just sit back and let his dad die just because he was told to. The reason Jonathan gives-the world is not ready- doesn't even make sense, because when would the world ever be ready? I feel like Clark let his father die basically for nothing. Say he saved his dad, his powers are revealed and the worst happens- the military takes him away to do experiments on him or whatever and the people reject him. How could they even physically hurt him?
The thing is, they don't know what the government knows. For all they know, the government has known about aliens, and how to deal with them.

Plus there was a risk to Martha and Jonathan. Clark couldn't be hurt, but his parents could. Even if the US government didn't do anything to Clark, there's no way of knowing how other countries would react. They could be kidnapped, killed, or harmed, and Clark would never been able to tolerate that.

Plus, what if Clark escaped from being captured? What then? He goes into hiding for the rest of his life, unable to make the difference he needs to. That's if he's lucky. If he's unlucky, he would be hunted. Where would he go to get peace? What would he have to do to get the US off his back?

Plus Clark was only 17 or 18 at that point in the film. Can you imagine placing that kind of burden on someone that age? His dad knew that the world and that even Clark were not ready for his presence to be revealed.

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And in Clark's case isn't an angry living father better than a dead one who can't feel anything? I know he was about to go, but I don't think a simple no from his father should have been enough to stop him from going, especially since there didn't seem to be a consequence great enough for his father's life to be sacrificed.
The 'simple no' illustrated Clark's love and trust in his father. I'm sure he regrets what happened, and I'm sure he wonders what would have happened if he'd done things differently. Perhaps Jonathan Kent was wrong, but he was doing what any parent would do: Protect his child, no matter what the cost was to himself.

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Old 08-12-2013, 09:10 PM   #303
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Clark was still operating as a human at that point, and his father had just handed a little girl over to him, and given him the directive to protect her and Martha. Jonathan did NOT want Clark to show off who he was, and it was fairly clear to me that they were not immediately by the overpass. With debris and strong winds flying around, it would have been difficult to make a lot of headway back toward his father as a human. His dad knew that the tornado would not have as much (if any) effect on Clark, and didn't want people to get suspicious in any way about how different Clark is.



The thing is, they don't know what the government knows. For all they know, the government has known about aliens, and how to deal with them.

Plus there was a risk to Martha and Jonathan. Clark couldn't be hurt, but his parents could. Even if the US government didn't do anything to Clark, there's no way of knowing how other countries would react. They could be kidnapped, killed, or harmed, and Clark would never been able to tolerate that.

Plus, what if Clark escaped from being captured? What then? He goes into hiding for the rest of his life, unable to make the difference he needs to. That's if he's lucky. If he's unlucky, he would be hunted. Where would he go to get peace? What would he have to do to get the US off his back?

Plus Clark was only 17 or 18 at that point in the film. Can you imagine placing that kind of burden on someone that age? His dad knew that the world and that even Clark were not ready for his presence to be revealed.



The 'simple no' illustrated Clark's love and trust in his father. I'm sure he regrets what happened, and I'm sure he wonders what would have happened if he'd done things differently. Perhaps Jonathan Kent was wrong, but he was doing what any parent would do: Protect his child, no matter what the cost was to himself.
I think we saw the same movie

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Old 08-12-2013, 09:14 PM   #304
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I thought it was an interesting, subtle nuance how in the car, Clark was acting out and telling Jonathan he wasn't his real dad.

yet, a short time later, Clark's obeying his Dad's order to not save him and yells DAD when the tornado sweeps away Jonathan.

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Old 08-12-2013, 09:25 PM   #305
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I thought it was an interesting, subtle nuance how in the car, Clark was acting out and telling Jonathan he wasn't his real dad.

yet, a short time later, Clark's obeying his Dad's order to not save him and yells DAD when the tornado sweeps away Jonathan.
What Clark said is what a lot of adopted or foster kids go through at some point. It's a very human way to behave, and it endeared Clark to me even more.

It was also a nice way to remind us of the scene where Jonathan assures Clark that he IS his son (which had me misting up. This movie, oh my heart. So many moments to love).

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Old 08-12-2013, 10:42 PM   #306
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Plus there was a risk to Martha and Jonathan. Clark couldn't be hurt, but his parents could. Even if the US government didn't do anything to Clark, there's no way of knowing how other countries would react. They could be kidnapped, killed, or harmed, and Clark would never been able to tolerate that.
The risk that Jonathan may be killed or harmed vs the certainty that Jonathan would be killed? Even the risk that both Martha and Jonathan may be harmed vs the certainty that Jonathan would be dead? Seems like an extremely dubious tradeoff to me. Something bad may or may not happen vs something bad that will certainly happen. Plus Jonathan never states anytime in the movie that he feared he or Martha could be kidnapped killed, or harmed, only that the 'world is not ready', whenever that was supposed to be. But I thought Jonathan's sacrifice was all for Clark, not for fear of what might happen to him or Martha?

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Plus, what if Clark escaped from being captured? What then? He goes into hiding for the rest of his life, unable to make the difference he needs to. That's if he's lucky. If he's unlucky, he would be hunted. Where would he go to get peace? What would he have to do to get the US off his back?
He was already 'in hiding' of sorts at the beginning of the movie, moving from job to job, each time he made a difference. And the government was 'hunting' him in a way at the end of the movie with the satellite and all. And he got them off his back just fine. If had saved Jonathan and IF the US tried to go after him, I really don't see him ending up all that differently than what happened in the movie.


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Plus Clark was only 17 or 18 at that point in the film. Can you imagine placing that kind of burden on someone that age? His dad knew that the world and that even Clark were not ready for his presence to be revealed.
The world was not any more ready when he was 33 vs when he was 17. That Clark saved that bus full of kids implied that he was ready to show his powers long before he turned 17.

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The 'simple no' illustrated Clark's love and trust in his father. I'm sure he regrets what happened, and I'm sure he wonders what would have happened if he'd done things differently. Perhaps Jonathan Kent was wrong, but he was doing what any parent would do: Protect his child, no matter what the cost was to himself.
I have no problem with what Jonathan Kent did, and understand it. I just have trouble with Clark letting Jonathan make that sacrifice for something that may or may not happen.


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Old 08-12-2013, 10:50 PM   #307
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Dan Lemmon told us about the work of Weta Digital for MAN OF STEEL.

How did Weta Digital get involved on this show?
We had worked with DJ before on other projects and we had a lot of respect for Zach Snyder’s and Christopher Nolan’s work. We happened to be working on another big Warner Brothers project at the time, and the timing looked like it would work well to do both films. The filmmakers liked some of our previous work where we’d brought alien worlds to life, so they gave us the opportunity to do the same with Krypton.
How was the collaboration with director Zack Snyder and Production VFX Supervisor John “DJ” Desjardin?
Zach is a great director to work for. He is clear and decisive and very strong visually. We worked from a lot of the concept artwork that his art department, led by Alex McDowell, put together, and it was a great template to get started from. Many of the visual ideas had already been worked out and we just needed to put them in shots and make them look photoreal. Zach and DJ work very closely together and have a very efficient short hand communication. It allows you to move through a lot of shots – getting solid, consistent feedback the whole way through – and end up with shots that look great.
What have you done on this show?
Weta did all of the work on Krypton, nearly all of the work in outer space and orbiting earth, and most of the interiors of the Kryptonian ships.
Krypton is presented as a completely new style. How did you create this planet?
Alex’s artwork and reference research was very helpful to us. His team had done a number of illustrations and rough 3D models that gave us an overall look-and-feel template to follow and a broad-strokes lay of the land. They included references photos of strip mines and quarries to which we added our own references, and we pulled from those real-world images to help ground our fictitious world in reality. Part of the storyline is that the landscape of Krypton has been mined bare leaving great hulking plates of vertical waste rock running across the planet. In Krypton City those vertical plates have been hollowed out to create a massive grillwork of soaring rock arches under which most of the city resides. We went to great lengths to make sure that we had the right kind of rock to build those kinds of structures. I was specifically looking for large, hard, flat rock formations and ended up spending Easter weekend laser scanning basalt cliffs on the South Island of New Zealand with Keith Miller, another VFX Supervisor on the film.

The Genesis Chamber is a huge environment. Can you explain in details about its creation?
Again, we drew heavily from Alex’s artwork. We also pulled from photos of kelp forests and giant aquariums. We wanted the fluid in the Genesis Chamber to feel like it could support life, so we filled it full of particulate vaguely reminiscent of what you might find in amniotic fluid.
How did you manage this huge amount of pods?
We used a level of detail system to control the amount of data we had to deal with, and some of the closest pods were their own hi-res setup.
The Kryptonians are wearing armor. Can you tell us more about their design and creation?
Alex’s team designed the armor and worked with the costume fabricators to create the physical skin-tight “skin suits” that the Kryptonians all wore under their armor. They also built physical versions of the females’ armor. But because of the bulkiness of the mens’ armor and their need to have maximum mobility to fight and perform stunts, the filmmakers decided to do the mens’ armor all digitally. We used faux-cap – a low-footprint video-based pseudo motion capture process – to record the movements of Russell Crowe, Michael Shannon, and the other male Kryptonians, and then based on that data we created armor that stuck to their bodies.
How did you handle the lighting and rendering challenges for the armors?
We lit and rendered the armor using our traditional techniques. We gathered lighting reference from the scene and used that to inform how we lit the digital armor. Because the digital armor was bigger and bulkier than the faux-cap suits the actors were wearing, we had to create shadows from the armor back onto the shoulders and heads of the actors.

How did you create the sequence in which Zod and his warriors are imprisoned?
We used Houdini and a couple different fluid solvers to develop the process for growing the crystals and crawling the dark fluid over the Kryptonian Rebels. The encased Rebels are then floated up into the Black Zero, a massive prison ship, which lifts into orbit around Krypton. It is met in orbit by the Phantom Zone Generator, a satellite that opens a window into the Phantom Zone through which the Black Zero passes. The Phantom Zone Generator had a number of effects, mostly developed in Houdini, that defined the membrane that formed the window into the Phantom Zone and that also tied the Black Zero to the Phantom Zone Generator as it passed into the Phantom Zone.
The destruction of Krypton is impressive. How did you approach this sequence?
Big destruction sequences are always tricky because you want to make things look real and respect the scale of things and the laws of physics, but you also want to exercise a certain level of control and art direct things so that the shots tell the story they need to tell in a legible way. And you also need to make things look cool. So we do something similar to what people would do when they blow up miniatures. We plan where and when we want things to happen in a broad-strokes kind of way. Then we lay explosive forces inside our digital model and we weaken the areas where we want things to break so that when the forces go off, things break where we want them to. After that we run the simulation over and over again, tweaking different things to get the big movements just right, and then we run lots of sub-simulations on top of the big simulation to add detail and refine collisions and further break things apart.
When you see the whole planet blow up from space, that was it’s own separate simulation and set up. We wanted to play visually with the idea that the planet core became unstable and that the planet collapsed around it and then reached a critical point where it reignited and blew up.
There is a scene where Clark is discovering the history of Krypton. How did you create this beautiful sequence?
We created a visual display technology for all of Krypton that we called “liquid geometry”. The idea was that the Kryptonian technology allowed little metallic beads to be suspended in air and take on 3-dimensional shapes by massing together. The Kryptonians used this technology to create displays and interfaces for their machines, space ships, and robots. The History of Krypton sequence featured this display technology being used to help educate Kal-El about where he came from. Figuring out what the images should look like stylistically was a little bit of a challenge. Zack pointed us to Greco-Roman bas-reliefs and a few other references from Soviet propaganda posters and WPA era murals and sculptures. A bas-relief at the Rockefeller Center was particularly helpful in helping us figure out how to make the shapes and figures both bold and stylized while still being legible in one metallic tone.

How did you create the Black Zero ship?
The Black Zero was based on a few illustrations and a rough model we received from Alex McDowell’s department. We used references as divergent as crustaceans and hot rods to help fill in the details. About 1/3rd of the ship’s bridge and some of the other rooms were partial set pieces on a green screen stage – we extended the rest digitally.
Can you tell us more about the aerial battles choreography?
We went through a few iterations with that sequence, and originally it was a bit longer, but the meat of it stayed in the film. The great thing about the aerial battle is that it allows you to see several different places in Krypton. We go from the top of the Council Chamber tower, dive down through the rock ribbons into the belly of the city, stop at the Genesis Chamber, have a look inside, and then come out the other end dodging hostile fire, weaving between giant colliding airships, soar out over the Kryptonian Wilderness, and finally stop at the House of El. It’s really the only look you get at a lot of Krypton, and I think it helps you put everything else that happens there in context.

How did you handle so many elements to animate?
From an animation standpoint, our work was pretty straightforward. We had a few creatures and robots that we had to figure out in terms of how they move and what they can do, but there actually weren’t too many of them. We were usually dealing with less than two dozen animated assets. Of course, when it came to making the screens for all the robots and ships, that’s another story. We developed a whole system for simulating the liquid geo beads on top of basic shape animations that drove the Kryptonian displays.




What was the biggest challenge on this project and how did you achieve it?
The biggest challenge was the History of Krypton sequence, both artistically and technically. We managed to get through it by working hard to nail down the look and the visual beats early on in the show, and then it was a bit of brute force to push all those billions of beads through the pipeline.
Was there a shot or a sequence that prevented you from sleep?
We had a few sleepless nights getting the History of Krypton sequence out the door, but for the most part it wasn’t too bad. We really enjoyed the work and had a good time on the show.
What do you keep from this experience?
It was a real pleasure working with Zack and DJ, and I hope we get the opportunity again.
How long have you worked on this film?
We spent about a year and four months on it.
How many shots have you done?
We completed 607 final shots.
What was the size of your team?
We had about 500 artists who worked on the film over the course of that time.
What is your next project?
I’m currently working on DAWN OF THE PLANET OF THE APES, which is just wrapping up photography in New Orleans right now.

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Old 08-12-2013, 10:56 PM   #308
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Perhaps tornadoes move super fast in real life but in the movie it seemed like Clark had plenty of time to go help his father. Like when his father was struggling in the car trying to kick the door. Clark would have heard and seen him struggling, why didn't he go then? And then even after Jonathan started limping towards them, there still seemed to be enough time for Clark to just run over in normal speed. The distance between Jonathan and Clark just didn't seem that great in the movie, nor did the tornado seem to be moving all that fast.

But even if the movie had made it clear that it was impossible for Clark to help his dad without his powers, it is still unacceptable to me that Clark would just sit back and let his dad die just because he was told to. The reason Jonathan gives-the world is not ready- doesn't even make sense, because when would the world ever be ready? I feel like Clark let his father die basically for nothing. Say he saved his dad, his powers are revealed and the worst happens- the military takes him away to do experiments on him or whatever and the people reject him. How could they even physically hurt him? Plus he could just escape any time. I suppose he could be hurt emotionally, but did he not think being hurt, physically or emotionally was a worthy sacrifice to make for his father's life? Say his father got mad at him for using his powers. Uh, so what. Is his father going to stay mad at him forever for saving his life? And in Clark's case isn't an angry living father better than a dead one who can't feel anything? I know he was about to go, but I don't think a simple no from his father should have been enough to stop him from going, especially since there didn't seem to be a consequence great enough for his father's life to be sacrificed.
Well I guess taking care for his mother and holding her to not go to the tornado... IMO Clark didn´t know what to do... in many dangerous situations most of the people and especially teenagers keep freeze and don't know what to do... eventhought Clark wanted to save his dad but he understood that like his dad told him there is too much in risk, his mom and the planet innocent people at future threats... that's why he said the world wasn´t ready not that the world will never be ready... He saw the hero inside Clark but he always guided him (to not go for the wrong way) to think thing and it's consequences... that´s what some people don't understand...
And to use his powers in that moment the military is one of the few problems... but what about using his parents to make him work for bad guys or to make him do what they want? their lives would be changed badly forever...THAT´s WAS PA´KENT FEAR not just he will be mad... all his sacrifices would mean nothing and as a consequence HE won't become Superman

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Old 08-12-2013, 11:54 PM   #309
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tornado scene is beatiful but is polemical I have to admit...
They had the right idea for this scene, it was just executed poorly.

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Old 08-13-2013, 12:32 AM   #310
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They had the right idea for this scene, it was just executed poorly.
The scene punched me in the gut. It was horrible in the best sense of the word.

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Old 08-13-2013, 12:45 AM   #311
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I honestly would have much rather have seen Jonathan go back for a person trapped in a vehicle than the dog.

Also, the tornado looked fake as hell. The movie Twister had better looking tornadoes.

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Old 08-13-2013, 12:56 AM   #312
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I honestly would have much rather have seen Jonathan go back for a person trapped in a vehicle than the dog.

Also, the tornado looked fake as hell. The movie Twister had better looking tornadoes.

The dog thing sticks in my craw (which I believe is located north of my druthers, but it's been a while since high school anatomy/physiology) but it does not affect my take on the scene. The effects were all amazing in MOS, for me.

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Old 08-13-2013, 10:55 AM   #313
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I honestly would have much rather have seen Jonathan go back for a person trapped in a vehicle than the dog.

Also, the tornado looked fake as hell. The movie Twister had better looking tornadoes.
The Dog is a living being... he deserves to live... that had emotion... that Pa kent cares for ALL lives as a great person.. as Superman's dad...
Well the tornado looked great real in my opinion not exagerated as in other movies... I mean for not being as powerful as a movie ABOUT TORNADOS... but it was well represented...

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Old 08-13-2013, 11:20 AM   #314
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The risk that Jonathan may be killed or harmed vs the certainty that Jonathan would be killed? Even the risk that both Martha and Jonathan may be harmed vs the certainty that Jonathan would be dead? Seems like an extremely dubious tradeoff to me. Something bad may or may not happen vs something bad that will certainly happen. Plus Jonathan never states anytime in the movie that he feared he or Martha could be kidnapped killed, or harmed, only that the 'world is not ready', whenever that was supposed to be. But I thought Jonathan's sacrifice was all for Clark, not for fear of what might happen to him or Martha?
No, I was just listing potential problems that may have run through Jonathan's mind. Martha was deeply concerned that Clark would be taken from them. Jonathan was deeply concerned not just about the world's reaction to Clark, but Clark's ability to deal with the human race.

And to say that it was stupid of Jonathan to or Clark to act or not act based on probabilities is stupid. Every action we take every day has a set of potential consequences. Some are logical conclusions, but an awful lot of what we do relies solely on luck.

Jonathan was willing to die because he knew that things would get messy and difficult for Clark if he revealed himself. Even if the choice he made was strange, there is no denying the love that was behind the action.

Quote:
He was already 'in hiding' of sorts at the beginning of the movie, moving from job to job, each time he made a difference. And the government was 'hunting' him in a way at the end of the movie with the satellite and all. And he got them off his back just fine. If had saved Jonathan and IF the US tried to go after him, I really don't see him ending up all that differently than what happened in the movie.

The world was not any more ready when he was 33 vs when he was 17. That Clark saved that bus full of kids implied that he was ready to show his powers long before he turned 17.
The world wasn't ready for Clark...but Clark was more able to handle the world. I'm not sure he would have been strong enough to tell the military to essentially go **** themselves.

He didn't have the knowledge of who he was, he didn't have the suit, he was still quite emotionally immature at the time of his father's death. If nothing else, Jonathan's death gave Clark the time he needed to grow into a man capable of shouldering the burden of being a hero.

Quote:
I have no problem with what Jonathan Kent did, and understand it. I just have trouble with Clark letting Jonathan make that sacrifice for something that may or may not happen.
Clark was still essentially a child. It's really, really not fair to lay this at his feet. He wanted to help, but he was trying to honor his parents' desire to keep his identity secret. He was afraid of the consequences of his actions too.

I thought it was a pretty brave choice to have Clark not always do the right thing. It makes him so much more realistic. In fact, I loved Jonathan even more because of his somewhat flawed handling of Clark.

The thing about the dog, which everyone is complaining about, really has to do with how willing Jonathan was to keep Clark's secret. Clark was going to go back and get the dog. Jonathan knew this, and he didn't want to risk people seeing how Clark would maybe be unaffected by the tornado, or to chance Clark somehow using his powers. That's why he shoved the child into Clark's arms and forced him to take her, and Martha to safety.

That is one thing that no one is talking about -- Jonathan's heroism. He gets his son and wife out of the car, then turns back to tell people where to go, and to help save that child stuck in the car seat. He saves the dog, and sacrifices himself for Clark. I think that it is a wonderful illustration of what Jonathan DID get right in teaching Clark. He led by a wonderful example, and I think that he deserves a lot of credit for how Clark turned out.

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Old 08-13-2013, 11:33 AM   #315
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Originally Posted by juansuperiron20 View Post
agree in most of your argument except of pa kent not preparing his son to be a hero... I guess teaching the best values and in the conversation in the car he wanted to Clark help people but in most of the important issues like feeding them things that IN THAT TIME would not put his secret at risk... but intentionally he always was teaching him and giving good advices so he will become the hero we all know....
I think he was teaching him to be a good person but not a superhero. However I could be wrong and since MOS just hit the dollar theater here I guess I will have to go see it again to rewatch that scene.

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Old 08-13-2013, 11:54 AM   #316
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That is one thing that no one is talking about -- Jonathan's heroism. He gets his son and wife out of the car, then turns back to tell people where to go, and to help save that child stuck in the car seat. He saves the dog, and sacrifices himself for Clark. I think that it is a wonderful illustration of what Jonathan DID get right in teaching Clark. He led by a wonderful example, and I think that he deserves a lot of credit for how Clark turned out.
Man that was beautiful... I feel the same when I watched the scene... and I think taking care of the dog (a living being) shows us how brave and wonderful person PA KENT was!!!!

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Old 08-13-2013, 11:56 AM   #317
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I think he was teaching him to be a good person but not a superhero. However I could be wrong and since MOS just hit the dollar theater here I guess I will have to go see it again to rewatch that scene.
being a good person is what superman is so one thing goes to the other... also the heroism that Clark saw in Johnathan being a hero in the Tornado scene is what Superman always represents to save lifes I can't wait to see it on blu-ray...

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Old 08-13-2013, 12:38 PM   #318
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Man that was beautiful... I feel the same when I watched the scene... and I think taking care of the dog (a living being) shows us how brave wonderful person PA KENT was!!!!
I think this is the best portrayal of Pa Kent since the character was created

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Old 08-13-2013, 12:50 PM   #319
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I think this is the best portrayal of Pa Kent since the character was created
It was really well-done, flaws and all. And Kevin did such an amazing job with that character.

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Old 08-13-2013, 04:00 PM   #320
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No, I was just listing potential problems that may have run through Jonathan's mind. Martha was deeply concerned that Clark would be taken from them. Jonathan was deeply concerned not just about the world's reaction to Clark, but Clark's ability to deal with the human race.

And to say that it was stupid of Jonathan to or Clark to act or not act based on probabilities is stupid. Every action we take every day has a set of potential consequences. Some are logical conclusions, but an awful lot of what we do relies solely on luck.

Jonathan was willing to die because he knew that things would get messy and difficult for Clark if he revealed himself. Even if the choice he made was strange, there is no denying the love that was behind the action.
I never said Jonathan was stupid. But to choose a certainty over a probability in this case is really questionable on Clark's part. Yes, everything we do has potential consequences and can rely on luck. But Jonathan's death was a definite consequence, and saving him did not guarantee something bad will happen. It was possible that they might be 'lucky' and nothing will happen. And even if something does happen, it is still not worse than his death. At least it shouldn't have been from Clark's standpoint. Anyways, like I said, it really didn't look to me like Clark needed to use his powers to get to Jonathan in time. The scene made it look like he could have had it both ways. Jonathan alive and no power usage. And even if not using his powers was impossible, he could have at least tried to use it subtly. Like running just fast enough to reach Jonathan in time while pretending to struggle against the winds. People watching really could not know that he was using any powers since they were not experiencing the winds themselves.

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Clark was still essentially a child. It's really, really not fair to lay this at his feet. He wanted to help, but he was trying to honor his parents' desire to keep his identity secret. He was afraid of the consequences of his actions too.

I thought it was a pretty brave choice to have Clark not always do the right thing. It makes him so much more realistic. In fact, I loved Jonathan even more because of his somewhat flawed handling of Clark.
So you don't think Clark did the right thing? The consequence of his nonaction was Jonathan's death. The consequence of his action is nebulous, up in the air, and in all likelihood did not involve death. And even if everyone saw Clark use his superspeed in all it's glory and they told officials about it, what's to say the officials would even take them seriously and not attribute it to something like mass hysteria or a curious phenomena not much worth looking into? I mean what could they really say except he ran reaally reaally fast. They might also say the winds were too strong for him to move that easily but they could not know exactly how strong those winds were when Clark was moving through it. I mean Jonathan was still standing in it just fine before he got swept away.

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The thing about the dog, which everyone is complaining about, really has to do with how willing Jonathan was to keep Clark's secret. Clark was going to go back and get the dog. Jonathan knew this, and he didn't want to risk people seeing how Clark would maybe be unaffected by the tornado, or to chance Clark somehow using his powers. That's why he shoved the child into Clark's arms and forced him to take her, and Martha to safety.

That is one thing that no one is talking about -- Jonathan's heroism. He gets his son and wife out of the car, then turns back to tell people where to go, and to help save that child stuck in the car seat. He saves the dog, and sacrifices himself for Clark. I think that it is a wonderful illustration of what Jonathan DID get right in teaching Clark. He led by a wonderful example, and I think that he deserves a lot of credit for how Clark turned out.
I have no problem with the dog and I do think Jonathan was heroic.

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Old 08-13-2013, 08:20 PM   #321
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The whole tornado scene was an EPIC cinematic FAIL.

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Old 08-13-2013, 08:29 PM   #322
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The whole tornado scene was an EPIC cinematic FAIL.
a Donner Fan saying that... calm your bias toward this movie.. the 70's are gone....
but nice try keep trying

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Old 08-13-2013, 08:35 PM   #323
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Wait. How do people know what a tornado actually looks like up that close?

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Old 08-13-2013, 08:44 PM   #324
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Wait. How do people know what a tornado actually looks like up that close?
yeah I know the scene was beautiful made. realistic if we see that the distance was too close.. many people only want to make arguments with no support..

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Old 08-13-2013, 08:58 PM   #325
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I think this is the best portrayal of Pa Kent since the character was created
I had issues with Jonathan Kent in the film. I wish he had backed away from his "maybe" to letting the kids die. Although the scene did remind me of Jonathan Kent getting on Clark's case for saving a bus in the Pilot of "Lois and Clark".

I liked the idea behind Jonathan sacrificing his life to protect Clark. However I do not think it came off as being done for sufficiently compelling reasons. Saving a dog just is not worth it.

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