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Old 11-30-2013, 10:13 AM   #951
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Originally Posted by Batmannerism View Post
Anyway, the codex is still a bit of a mystery. I think, IMO, that Jor El would have known about the scoutship, and the genesis chamber it contained.
With that chamber Kal could have re-started his race, and that's what I think the last conversation Kal has with Jor El's AI, aboard Zod's ship was actually about.....although that seems to contradict Jor El's point in having Kal born naturally.

Maybe by giving him the genetic code of all those Kryptonians he was indeed hoping Kal would mate with humans and re-start Krypton that way...
Conceivably, Jor-El might have just stowed the “Codex skull” onboard Kal’s ship - an easier/quicker way to preserve Krypton’s genetic legacy. But as it turned out, Zod was able to find the ship. So Jor was wise to have hidden the Codex in a more ingenious location.

I think the Codex, itself, was more-or-less a “MacGuffin.” This is a detail which helps drives the story forward until (like passing the baton in a relay race) other plot elements take over. A classic MacGuffin is the actual Maltese Falcon in The Maltese Falcon. Trying to find the valuable statuette motivates all the characters in the movie. But at the end, it’s never recovered.

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Old 11-30-2013, 10:31 AM   #952
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Remember in SMTM, for some reason Clark was drawn to go north. Who knows, maybe a similar subconscious instinct was present. Maybe he could detect the ship's presence on an unconscious level.....okay, now the conjecture's getting pretty wild, but this is Superman, so really, not too wild.
I just finished reading the novelization and I believe Clark said something like this in the book. Let me find the quote.

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"How'd you know that ship was there?" Lois asked.

"I'm not sure," Clark admitted. "I just had a feeling. Something always drawing me north." He gazed down at the tombstone before them. "My dad used to keep these clippings of UFO sightings…"

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Old 11-30-2013, 02:27 PM   #953
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Conceivably, Jor-El might have just stowed the “Codex skull” onboard Kal’s ship - an easier/quicker way to preserve Krypton’s genetic legacy. But as it turned out, Zod was able to find the ship. So Jor was wise to have hidden the Codex in a more ingenious location.

I think the Codex, itself, was more-or-less a “MacGuffin.” This is a detail which helps drives the story forward until (like passing the baton in a relay race) other plot elements take over. A classic MacGuffin is the actual Maltese Falcon in The Maltese Falcon. Trying to find the valuable statuette motivates all the characters in the movie. But at the end, it’s never recovered.
Good points Dr.! I think the codex combined with Jor's speech to Kal about bridging worlds was what threw me off. While I get the idea of hiding it inside him, I'm not convinced he did this so Kal would restart the race in the traditional Kryptonian way. I hope I'm right, but I doubt this will be answered in the next movie.

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I just finished reading the novelization and I believe Clark said something like this in the book. Let me find the quote.
Good catch. I forgot about that. It's little touches like that I wish were kept in. I think it would have helped. Hopefully there is an extended edition somewhere down the line. I'd buy it!

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I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.

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Old 11-30-2013, 05:22 PM   #954
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Originally Posted by Dr. View Post
Conceivably, Jor-El might have just stowed the “Codex skull” onboard Kal’s ship - an easier/quicker way to preserve Krypton’s genetic legacy. But as it turned out, Zod was able to find the ship. So Jor was wise to have hidden the Codex in a more ingenious location.

I think the Codex, itself, was more-or-less a “MacGuffin.” This is a detail which helps drives the story forward until (like passing the baton in a relay race) other plot elements take over. A classic MacGuffin is the actual Maltese Falcon in The Maltese Falcon. Trying to find the valuable statuette motivates all the characters in the movie. But at the end, it’s never recovered.

Good point!

Maybe it is more symbolic, that Kal is the "Last Son" of Krypton not only because he was the last kryptonian actually born, but also because with the codex inside him he's the last kryptonian who will ever be born.

I don't really understand why people get wound up about it, it's a significant plot point, but you can still love the film without it coming to a concrete resolution. It's more about the personal journey of Clark, rather than the journey of Krypton.

Peace out Super-fans !

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Old 11-30-2013, 05:45 PM   #955
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Well, given that MOS was the first of a intended franchise for the character, I'm willing to wait and see if they might bring that factor in for future films.


Heck, like some have mentioned, they may bring it up again if they decide to allow Lois and Clark to have children with each other near the end of Amy and Henry's run together for their respective roles.

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Old 12-01-2013, 05:13 AM   #956
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forget it. Deleted.

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Old 12-05-2013, 08:52 AM   #957
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Oops, nevermind.


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Old 12-06-2013, 10:13 PM   #958
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That truck scene still bothers me. It would have been much better if Clark strong armed the drunk out of the bar and made a point. Literately toss him out like trash. Then he could have quit once the situation was settled.

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Old 12-06-2013, 10:17 PM   #959
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The truck scene bothered me, but I felt Clark should have done nothing. He should have just gone about his business and not destroyed his truck.

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Old 12-06-2013, 10:27 PM   #960
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Yea, destroying the truck was a cheap joke and not a good one. I thought he should have just walked out as you say, but I would have also, liked to see him stand up for himself and do the right thing and escort a rowdy patron out the bar.

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Old 12-06-2013, 10:42 PM   #961
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Kinda like what happened in Superman 2.

Remember the scene where Clark was being bullied as a kid? He did nothing at all. He wanted to, but he just sat there and took it. He sorta did the same thing in this situation, except he destroyed the mans truck. I was hoping Clark would have been the better person in this situation and do nothing at all.

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Old 12-06-2013, 11:43 PM   #962
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Honestly, the truck driver had it coming.

And plus, the scene was meant to show that Clark isn't perfect; he was still raised like a human being, and thus has the mindset of one.

The reason why Superman is revered by so many isn't because he's some perfect God-like being.

Plus, given that Clark was still developing as a character during that moment, you can't blame him for reacting the way he did.

At least he didn't beat up the guy, which is what CR's Clark did to the truck driver in SII.


Anyways, for anyone that's still a fan of bugs bunny, they recently did a good spoof/parody of Superman II on the Looney Tunes show; I'd say that it's worth taking a look at.lol

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Old 12-07-2013, 02:47 AM   #963
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What is this about?


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Old 12-07-2013, 11:58 AM   #964
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Where'd you find that?

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Old 12-08-2013, 01:56 AM   #965
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Kinda like what happened in Superman 2.

Remember the scene where Clark was being bullied as a kid? He did nothing at all. He wanted to, but he just sat there and took it. He sorta did the same thing in this situation, except he destroyed the mans truck. I was hoping Clark would have been the better person in this situation and do nothing at all.
Except Superman 2 had him act like a literal butthurt internet nerd. Not very Superman-ish of him to beat him someone clearly out of his league when he got his powers back. Especially after establishing that this Superman sees the good in people.

At least in MOS, Clark doesn't hurt anyone because he knows of the consequences. But at the same time, he doesn't bottle up his emotions, he often takes it out on something. For instance, teenage Clark being bullied, he took his anger out on the metal pole that he grasped onto (which we see is clearly trampled by his hands alone). And of course, with the truck of the douche truck driver.

All it does is show how human he is.

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Old 12-08-2013, 05:37 AM   #966
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You know what? To hell with Rocky the truck driver. I don't understand why so many people weep for some idiot bully who beats people up for no reason. Even Superman should be allowed to humiliate a guy like that.

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Old 12-08-2013, 05:40 AM   #967
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Heck, in some ways, Superman may actually be doing the guy a favor....in regards to the truck driver in MOS at least.

By teaching that guy a lesson in the manner that he did, the driver is likely not to harass anyone any time soon or in awhile. Now one would ask, how does that help him? Well, if the guy wasn't taught a lesson, then he could have easily picked a fight with someone else who wouldn't have had Clark's restraint and gotten himself killed or seriously hurt in response.

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Old 12-08-2013, 10:28 AM   #968
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You know what? To hell with Rocky the truck driver. I don't understand why so many people weep for some idiot bully who beats people up for no reason. Even Superman should be allowed to humiliate a guy like that.
No, not to hell with Rocky the truck driver. Did we all want to see him get his? Of course, but not by a fully restored Superman. It reeks of petty vengeance. And its even worse in the Donner Cut where technically the guy beating him up didn't happen.

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Old 12-08-2013, 12:03 PM   #969
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I wonder if later on when superman shows himself fully to the world, that he puts 2 and 2 together lol, like damn!....I got real lucky!.....maybe he turns his life around like Pete did

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Old 12-08-2013, 12:06 PM   #970
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That truck scene still bothers me. It would have been much better if Clark strong armed the drunk out of the bar and made a point. Literately toss him out like trash. Then he could have quit once the situation was settled.
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Yea, destroying the truck was a cheap joke and not a good one. I thought he should have just walked out as you say, but I would have also, liked to see him stand up for himself and do the right thing and escort a rowdy patron out the bar.
It was just a throw back to superman 2 only instead of breaking the truck driver he broke the truck. :P
Superman 2. It which is worst the Medical bills and chronic health problems or having your insurance company replace your truck.


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Old 12-08-2013, 05:00 PM   #971
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You know what? To hell with Rocky the truck driver. I don't understand why so many people weep for some idiot bully who beats people up for no reason. Even Superman should be allowed to humiliate a guy like that.
No, never to hell with the truck driver. Yes, he did beat people up, but that doesn't give Superman the right to literally beat him to a pulp when his powers were restored. The point of Superman is to be the better man, not to resort to vengeance.

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Old 12-08-2013, 07:52 PM   #972
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No, never to hell with the truck driver. Yes, he did beat people up, but that doesn't give Superman the right to literally beat him to a pulp when his powers were restored. The point of Superman is to be the better man, not to resort to vengeance.
Here's my 10 c (sorry lads, where I live, we don't have 1c, 2c, or even 5 c anymore), if you don't agree, fair enough. The whole "better man" argument is a very personal one, and people agree/disagree based on their personal views on justice/morality.

Perhaps its a question of degrees. If you protect yourself it's okay,
but if you go too far .....or is motive the important factor, self-defence
vs revenge ? It's not an easy question to answer.

Bullying is a serious problem, it haunts people for years. If you don't believe me, do a bit of reading about it. Bullying can do tremendous
psychological damage.

That ******* truck-driver was portrayed as the kind of guy who spends his life doing that kind of thing to people. I'm doubt Superman gave him
a beating that would have crippled or permanently maimed him, so I was pretty okay with that. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

But you've raised a bigger issue about whether Superman should "be the better man"

IMO sometimes the better man has to put bullies in their place, and sometimes that means resorting to violence.

watch the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nu3CLQm-SI

How did that ******* get his hand broken ? he threw the first punch.
Superman was pretty restrained. In my book, that's karma pure and simple, or if you prefer The Lord works in mysterious ways, live by the sword die by the sword....whatever works for you.

Maybe it's not turn the other cheek, but then this is Superman, not Jesus.

But, hey, if it didn't work for you, fair enough. Entitled to your own opinion dude.

Something about MOS, is that I suspect (given some of Cav-El's facial expressions) is that Clark enjoyed fighting the Kryptonians in Smallville, and he enjoyed fighting Zod (though obviously he was deeply remorseful about killing him), because he'd been bottling up his emotions and backing down from bullies his whole life, and finally he was able to cut loose.

The "better man" argument goes a bit further.

Should Clark have refused to kill Zod, let the family fry, and prolonged a battle that would have probably destroyed all of Metropolis, and then kept going, with an incalculable loss of life (or if he lost to Zod, what would become of poor old Earth, considering Zod had just finished trying to exterminate humanity)? Killing him was the correct thing to do.

People really hang on to that "Superman is better than that." but are pretty damn short on what his other options were.

BTW, in our country, not sure about the USA, the legal description of self-defence is a use of force, that is reasonable in the circumstances, in the defence of oneself or others. As such, if that ever went to Court
Clark could rely on self-defence to exonerate himself.
(also, technically, in most common law countries, homicide is defined as a human killing another human, as such, technically, what Clark did isn't homicide. This sounds bizarre, but its true. )


As for that guy's truck. Insurance. Besides, after all that beer he drank, he might have driven the truck, and we can thank Clark for taking a drunk driver off the road (especially one in charge of a truck full of logs).

Either way, I'm okay with it. but again, just IMO

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Old 12-09-2013, 09:20 AM   #973
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WOW great thought out post Batmannerism. Some really great points . i love when people take post to another level. I have to admit though the original post about this scene got some interesting reaction. Having been bullied myself i wanted clark to put him in his place however what some of you said about ' Superman the better man etc' that kind of hit a nerve for me. Really does raise some personal baggage on how we view ourselfs and others.

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Old 12-10-2013, 09:15 PM   #974
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I think another problem is that some have just gotten too used to the notion that Superman will always find another way to resolve things. Now granted, I do believe that Superman is the kind of person that will do his best to find other options in taking down someone that doesn’t resort to killing them, and I doubt that he would even go into a battle with the thought of killing the person, but when the chips are down and when there aren’t any other options, then it wouldn’t be wrong of him to do so if it meant saving more people in the process.

Some say that what makes these heroes so great is that they’re able to supposedly find another way all the time, but I say, what makes them so special is the fact that they have to make these life altering decisions and manage to find the courage to live with them and not be consumed by it.

That’s why I’ve never liked how Batman has been portrayed in the animated series or in the Arkham games.

In my honest opinion, those versions of Batman does nothing more than controlling the chaos that takes place in Gotham. I mean, it’s pretty telling that despite all the years that Batman has put into being a “crime fighter” that Gotham is still pretty much in a crappy state and hasn’t changed for the better. As far as I’ve seen, Batman’s problem, in those versions, is that he goes out of his way to protect and save villains that shouldn’t be saved if something else is about kill them. By letting those villains live, villains that were given multiple chances to reform, he’s ensuring that more people will die in the long run. That’s why I can never respect the animated or Arkham interpretations of Batman.

That’s why I respect MOS’s take on Superman because, despite showing that he doesn’t want to kill off his villains, if he had no choice, he would rather sacrifice the life of the villain and take on the burden that comes from it so that innocent people can live…rather than allowing the villain to live so that his hands can be free from it while other people die as a result.

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Old 12-10-2013, 10:21 PM   #975
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The one thing I will say after watching The Wolverine is I am glad there was at least some moment given to how killing affected Superman. The scream and look on Cavill's face in those moments was very poignant.

I was surprised after spending so much time decrying Superman's killing that I was not even affected by how many people Wolverine slaughtered. He was outright about to kill that man in the bar, and would have if he wasn't stopped. This made me reflect on how Superman killing someone was portrayed, and why I really have a problem with it. It's more that is not how I see the character handling that sort of situation. My philosophy on this is the only time Superman should kill is if he himself dies in the process. That's an outmoded way of thinking, but that's how I have viewed the character for a long time.

MOS challenges that premise in a pretty realistic way. That is something I appreciate.

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I've heard so many people talk about how Superman would kill Lois if they ever had sex, but I've never heard someone make this point before and it's brilliant. If Superman's bodily fluids are so dangerous, then he'd have to use a kryptonite toilet every time he takes a dump.

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