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Old 07-28-2013, 11:54 AM   #26
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Default Re: Figuring out what could be changed

What I don't get is...Wolverine in 2023 and Wolverine in the present. If it's the present day that sends Wolverine back in time...what is the Wolverine in 2023? How does that work? Maybe at the start in the future, the events of DOFP already happened and the future is still apocalyptic?

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Old 07-28-2013, 12:00 PM   #27
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What I don't get is...Wolverine in 2023 and Wolverine in the present. If it's the present day that sends Wolverine back in time...what is the Wolverine in 2023? How does that work? Maybe at the start in the future, the events of DOFP already happened and the future is still apocalyptic?
I assume the 2023 Wolverine is a prologue at the start of the movie in an unchanged timeline. All our beloved X-Men are dead, Wolverine is leading his resistance team, all hope is lost. Wolverine is killed by sentinels (iconic death shot) and then action switches to the present day.

Perhaps Bishop arrives from that 2023 timeline and tells the present day X-Men how bad things get, and that they need to try and change the past? Or, if nothing else, it sets the tone. This is what happens. This is how it all ends for our characters. This is what they need to avert. If they don't succeed, they're all dead.

Ideally, I'd love a nice 10/15 scene in 2023 with all these future X-Men and Logan. Then Logan gets killed. Adamantium skeleton. Opening credits. If that's not the best opening in a comic book movie, I don't know what is.

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Old 07-28-2013, 12:02 PM   #28
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I'm really not so sure on this 2023 thing because, if it's accurate to what's going to be shown onscreen, they're deliberately introducing another mistake into a continuity that people think is already too flawed as it is. Based on what we know from the 6 released films and the concrete info we have on DoFP, the latest the events of the original X Trilogy can take place is 2003, which puts The Wolverine's events as taking place no later than 2006 and the film's mid-credits scene as taking place no later than 2008.

How did I reach that conclusion? By looking at the concrete dates we already have for the franchise: 1944 (the Prologues of FC and X1), 1962 (the bulk of FC), 1973 (the bulk of DoFP), 1975 (part of the Prologue of O:W), and 1981 (the bulk of O:W) as well as what the original X Trilogy and The Wolverine tell us that is less concrete (the 'not too distant future' tag from X1, X2 taking place 6 months after X1, and X3/TLS taking place immediately following the end of X2, The Wolverine's mid-credits scene taking place 2 years after the bulk of the film, which takes place a year after X3/TLS).

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Old 07-28-2013, 12:16 PM   #29
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I assume the 2023 Wolverine is a prologue at the start of the movie in an unchanged timeline. All our beloved X-Men are dead, Wolverine is leading his resistance team, all hope is lost. Wolverine is killed by sentinels (iconic death shot) and then action switches to the present day.

Perhaps Bishop arrives from that 2023 timeline and tells the present day X-Men how bad things get, and that they need to try and change the past? Or, if nothing else, it sets the tone. This is what happens. This is how it all ends for our characters. This is what they need to avert. If they don't succeed, they're all dead.

Ideally, I'd love a nice 10/15 scene in 2023 with all these future X-Men and Logan. Then Logan gets killed. Adamantium skeleton. Opening credits. If that's not the best opening in a comic book movie, I don't know what is.
It would be but it doesn't make sense if Bishop can travel back in time to the present, why not just go back to the 70s? And if nobody travels from 2023 and we just skip back to the present where they make a plan to send Logan's mind back in time, and assuming it works, there would be no dark 2023 existing ever...not even once. Unless it's a future that isn't prevented in this movie...

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Old 07-28-2013, 12:19 PM   #30
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I'm really not so sure on this 2023 thing because, if it's accurate to what's going to be shown onscreen, they're deliberately introducing another mistake into a continuity that people think is already too flawed as it is. Based on what we know from the 6 released films and the concrete info we have on DoFP, the latest the events of the original X Trilogy can take place is 2003, with the earliest being 2001.

How did I reach that conclusion? By looking at the concrete dates we already have for the franchise: 1944 (the Prologues of FC and X1), 1962 (the bulk of FC), 1973 (the bulk of DoFP), 1975 (part of the Prologue of O:W), and 1981 (the bulk of O:W) as well as what the original X Trilogy tells us that is less concrete (the 'not too distant future' tag from X1, X2 taking place 6 months after X1, and X3 taking place immediately following the end of X2).
And?

Then the 'present day' of this film, where the sentinels are beginning their attack takes place a decade after the original trilogy, so roughly around 2013 or 2014. This is the period with Professor X, Wolverine, Magneto, Rogue, Kitty, Iceman, Storm and Colossus.

Then the future scenes where the world is devastated, where Wolverine is now greying, alongside Blink, Sunspot and Warpath, takes place even future down the line - 2023.

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Old 07-28-2013, 12:23 PM   #31
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It would be but it doesn't make sense if Bishop can travel back in time to the present, why not just go back to the 70s? And if nobody travels from 2023 and we just skip back to the present where they make a plan to send Logan's mind back in time, and assuming it works, there would be no dark 2023 existing ever...not even once. Unless it's a future that isn't prevented in this movie...
Well, no one knows Bishop even will travel back. That's just a theory.

Yes, if they succeed, there will be no horrific 2023 dystopia (unless it's just an alternate timeline). However, why can't we, the audience, see it - even if it is averted? So we know the stakes. So we know what is going to happen unless our characters succeed?

Plus, we have no idea what the movie's depiction of time travel will be like, and what rules they establish.

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Old 07-28-2013, 12:29 PM   #32
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And?

Then the 'present day' of this film, where the sentinels are beginning their attack takes place a decade after the original trilogy, so roughly around 2013 or 2014. This is the period with Professor X, Wolverine, Magneto, Rogue, Kitty, Iceman, Storm and Colossus.

Then the future scenes where the world is devastated, where Wolverine is now greying, alongside Blink, Sunspot and Warpath, takes place even future down the line - 2023.
I don't think that works because of The Wolverine's post-credits scene. 5 to 6 years passing between that scene and the 'present day' of DoFP doesn't sound to me like it fits Magneto's attitude when he's trying to recruit Logan to his cause.

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Old 07-28-2013, 12:43 PM   #33
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I don't think that works because of The Wolverine's post-credits scene. 5 to 6 years passing between that scene and the 'present day' of DoFP doesn't sound to me like it fits Magneto's attitude when he's trying to recruit Logan to his cause.
Well, then the only possible error isn't with the 2023 date, it's with this gap between the end of the OT, where DOFP resumes - a decade later, and where exactly The Wolverine slots in-between the two.

I haven't seen TW yet, does it specify how long it takes place after The Last Stand?

In fairness, by the 'present day' in DOFP, things are still pretty bad for our X-Men. They're in their black, 'war' uniforms, they are (apparently, according to people who saw the trailer) planning strategics, and they're desperate enough to assume they can't win and their only hope is changing the past. So it's fairly possible that it's several years after TW and things have escalated. It's not like we're seeing them on the day the sentinels have been released, they're in the thick of battle.

Then the 'future' is the next step after that.

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Old 07-28-2013, 12:50 PM   #34
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Default Re: Figuring out what could be changed

^ As far as I know, The Wolverine takes place one year after TLS, which puts the mid-credits scene 3 years after TLS.

If the X-Men are indeed 'in the thick of it' in the present of DoFP, though, the 2013/2014 thing would make more sense since their time travel scheme would probably be a 'last resort' scenario.

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"Despair is for people who know beyond any doubt what the future is going to be. Nobody's in that position. So despair is not only a kind of sin - theologically - it's also a simple mistake, because nobody actually knows." - Dr. Patrick Curry

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Old 07-28-2013, 01:07 PM   #35
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If the X-Men are indeed 'in the thick of it' in the present of DoFP, though, the 2013/2014 thing would make more sense since their time travel scheme would probably be a 'last resort' scenario.
They definitely are, judging by what people who were at Comic Con have said. You can kinda tell by their outfits. They're very makeshift, and individual, and even Professor X has one. It's a far cry from the uniformity of their leather suits.

And as you say, sending Wolverine to the past is the perfect last resort. It's very extreme and not something they would undertake lightly if they thought they had a real chance of winning.

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Old 07-28-2013, 01:11 PM   #36
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Default Re: Figuring out what could be changed

Which is also why I wonder why they need Rogue to get his mind back...if its the last resort and this future will never happen anyway.

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Old 07-28-2013, 01:22 PM   #37
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I'm really not so sure on this 2023 thing because, if it's accurate to what's going to be shown onscreen, they're deliberately introducing another mistake into a continuity that people think is already too flawed as it is. Based on what we know from the 6 released films and the concrete info we have on DoFP, the latest the events of the original X Trilogy can take place is 2003, which puts The Wolverine's events as taking place no later than 2006 and the film's mid-credits scene as taking place no later than 2008.

How did I reach that conclusion? By looking at the concrete dates we already have for the franchise: 1944 (the Prologues of FC and X1), 1962 (the bulk of FC), 1973 (the bulk of DoFP), 1975 (part of the Prologue of O:W), and 1981 (the bulk of O:W) as well as what the original X Trilogy and The Wolverine tell us that is less concrete (the 'not too distant future' tag from X1, X2 taking place 6 months after X1, and X3/TLS taking place immediately following the end of X2, The Wolverine's mid-credits scene taking place 2 years after the bulk of the film, which takes place a year after X3/TLS).
I would agree with your timeline except for X3 taking place imediately after X2. Everyone seemed to have moved on from the death of Jean, there is a new president etc I think it takes place at least a year after X2 most probably more.

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Old 07-28-2013, 01:27 PM   #38
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Which is also why I wonder why they need Rogue to get his mind back...if its the last resort and this future will never happen anyway.
I'm not sure she's needed to get his mind back, or whether she's needed to ensure that the process continues. If that plot summary was right, and Rogue's needed when something happens to Kitty, perhaps the process is quite complicated and should anything happen to Kitty, his mind will snap back? I dunno. I'm guessing now.

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Old 07-28-2013, 02:03 PM   #39
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I would agree with your timeline except for X3 taking place imediately after X2. Everyone seemed to have moved on from the death of Jean, there is a new president etc I think it takes place at least a year after X2 most probably more.
It's been a while since I've watched the trilogy, so you might be right. I didn't personally get the feeling that a lot of time had passed, though.

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Old 07-28-2013, 02:41 PM   #40
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Because timelines keep getting mentioned, I think that's what we'll see. The creation of a new timeline for filmmakers to explore. And I suspect we're going to see a change in humanity's reaction to the mutant phenomenon in the process.

If the events of X2 and X3 are somehow erased (Stryker is the key to this, if he never waged his private war on mutants, or if it went in a different direction, things would be markedly different). Keep in mind, the events of the X-films could still very well have happened, just in a different timeline, the original series, then what we're left with is a humanity who is less about registering and "curing" mutants and viewing it as a social problem, and more about outright eradicating them as a serious threat. A more militant response from humanity toward the mutant phenomenon, consistent with the approach we saw in FIRST CLASS.

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Old 07-28-2013, 03:09 PM   #41
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I would agree with your timeline except for X3 taking place imediately after X2. Everyone seemed to have moved on from the death of Jean, there is a new president etc I think it takes place at least a year after X2 most probably more.
I think the new president part was mainly because they couldn't secure the actor from X2 (Cotter Smith?), which is why we got a less than stellar president...Also, Ratner

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Old 07-28-2013, 07:00 PM   #42
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Because timelines keep getting mentioned, I think that's what we'll see. The creation of a new timeline for filmmakers to explore. And I suspect we're going to see a change in humanity's reaction to the mutant phenomenon in the process.

If the events of X2 and X3 are somehow erased (Stryker is the key to this, if he never waged his private war on mutants, or if it went in a different direction, things would be markedly different). Keep in mind, the events of the X-films could still very well have happened, just in a different timeline, the original series, then what we're left with is a humanity who is less about registering and "curing" mutants and viewing it as a social problem, and more about outright eradicating them as a serious threat. A more militant response from humanity toward the mutant phenomenon, consistent with the approach we saw in FIRST CLASS.
Singer said he's maintaining some of the continuity, so this isn't happening.

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Old 07-28-2013, 10:08 PM   #43
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I do think The Wolverine is set in 2012 and DOFP will be set in 2014.

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Old 07-28-2013, 10:22 PM   #44
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Because timelines keep getting mentioned, I think that's what we'll see. The creation of a new timeline for filmmakers to explore. And I suspect we're going to see a change in humanity's reaction to the mutant phenomenon in the process.

If the events of X2 and X3 are somehow erased (Stryker is the key to this, if he never waged his private war on mutants, or if it went in a different direction, things would be markedly different). Keep in mind, the events of the X-films could still very well have happened, just in a different timeline, the original series, then what we're left with is a humanity who is less about registering and "curing" mutants and viewing it as a social problem, and more about outright eradicating them as a serious threat. A more militant response from humanity toward the mutant phenomenon, consistent with the approach we saw in FIRST CLASS.
That's certainly a possibility. I'm also curious to see how, or if, they will address the Jean Grey/Phoenix situation. Could the events of The Last Stand also be responsible for the production of sentinels and the subsequent dystopian future? Would Professor Xavier, knowing the cost of placing psychic barrier's in Jean Grey's mind, follow the same path and allow for the creation of a ticking time bomb who may serve as reason for humanity to once again arm itself against mutant threats in the future?

Also, given his feelings for her, would Wolverine travel to the past and not try to change things so that she might live? Of course, this would dramatically change the events of the franchise, and they may choose to not go that route, but I think it's something that should be addressed one way or the other.

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Old 07-28-2013, 10:33 PM   #45
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I do think The Wolverine is set in 2012 and DOFP will be set in 2014.
That can't be the case, as there's only one year in-universe between TLS and the main body of TW and only three years between TLS and the mid-credits scene of TW, and because it's been confirmed that the 'present' of DoFP takes place 10 years after TLS, which puts it 7 years after the mid-credits scene of TW.

As an aside, I finally saw Origins: Wolverine this evening on FX and honestly don't understand why it gets the flack that it does. I also don't see why people think it is so problematic when it comes to the overall continuity of the franchise. It actually fits into the pre-existing continuity - both as said continuity stands now and as said continuity stood at the time the film was first released - very well.

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Old 07-28-2013, 10:47 PM   #46
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Default Re: Figuring out what could be changed

wolverine was in japan for two years? What? lol News to me.

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Old 07-28-2013, 10:52 PM   #47
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wolverine was in japan for two years? What? lol News to me.
He very well could've been, and I don't see why it would be a problem if he had been. He certainly wouldn't have had any reason to immediately go back to North America, at least not that I can see based on what I've found out about the plot of the new movie.

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Old 07-29-2013, 04:52 AM   #48
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Bringing back the dead characters, obviously.

Having Emma as a legitimate threat to the jean, Scott relationship

A promise to dedicate the new movies to storytelling and character

More battle scenes of the xmen working as a team

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Old 07-29-2013, 06:43 AM   #49
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Either wipe everything post-1973DoFP, or fix the things that were never meant to be in Singer's vision. From what I'm hearing, it's probably the latter. Which is trickier... and far more interesting to see how they'll achieve it.

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Old 07-29-2013, 09:03 AM   #50
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Default Re: Figuring out what could be changed

There are 2 possabiltys for end of this film

1:The film ends In 1973.Time travel has erased future scenes of DOFP,The trilogy,The Wolverine,and post Africa parts of Origins
2:The film ends In showiwng a altered future where some events of the Last
Stand has been retconned like death of cyclops and Xavier being distingrated.

If It's 1 they have to be careful.To have chanracters who were In teens in the aparent set early 2000's of trilogy like Iceman,Angel,Rogue,Kitty,and Colossus
to become teens In 1970's or 1980's would be major clusterup.And I hate to tell people that but if this happens they might have wolverine on team even earlier.

If It's 2 they can ignore anything from last stand they want.They can use
Psylocke for example without worrying about version from Last Stand.This would allow Bryan Singer to take series to his vision.The Wolverine could be retconned to being Wolverine Is alone because he blames himself for what happens to jean Instead of his guilt for killing her.

I think 2 Is more likely.Plus that Is way that X-force Is more likely to follow.

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