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Old 07-31-2013, 11:53 AM   #101
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Default Re: Figuring out what could be changed

There are, honestly, 3 actual continuity errors AT MOST in the 5 films that I've seen, and none of them are significant enough to warrant 'throwing the baby out with the bathwater' (read: creating an alternate timeline).

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Old 07-31-2013, 02:24 PM   #102
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People who were at Comic-Con and saw the trailer, said that the footage of Wolverine with Blink, Warpath, etc, looked distinctly different from the footage of Wolverine with our X-Men - This gave them the impression that there were three distinct eras in the movie. Wolverine only had greying hair in the scenes with the former, not the latter, etc.

Which makes sense, really. With an older grey-haired Wolverine in 2023, and a more 'normal' looking Wolverine in the present scenes, which would be mere years after The Wolverine.
Thank you for clearing that up. That makes total sense.

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Old 07-31-2013, 02:30 PM   #103
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Why wouldn't Bishop skip the middle men and just travel back to 1973, instead of warning the 2013 X-Men that they have to warn the 70s X-Men? Sounds like a lot of unnecessary extra time travel to me. And from the descriptions of the footage, it looks like the war is already pretty bad in the time period with the old Professor X etc. Why do they need any warning at all?

And I think that if they really really wanted the iconic death shot, Wolverine could simply return to his mind near the end of the film and then they could have some kind of big Everybody Dies climatic sequence. Or something.
I was just thinking in terms of why there are three different eras. Perhaps Bishop can only physically go back so far? Or he assumes going back a couple of years to warn the X-Men will be sufficient, but that proves not to be the case.

I would see it playing out like this: they somehow find a way to tweak Blink's powers to physically send someone back in time, but these powers are limited. She only has a decade or so. Wolverine tells Bishop to go back to when the Sentinels first made a comeback in present day to warn/galvanize the X-Men. Bishop goes back, but then everyone else dies, preventing Bishop from traveling further forward or backward. The present day X-Men realize one way or another that they cannot stop the problem and they have to go back to 1973 to prevent Sentinels from being created in the first place. Since Blink is out of the picture, the only method is a mind swap. Xavier is too powerful and would resist it. Whatever Magneto is doing to cloak himself in the 70s from Xavier prevents them from finding him and brings him off the table. No one else is born yet. Logan becomes the only option for this method, and thus his consciousness is sent back to his younger self.

Logan wakes up in his 1973 body, adventure ensues, the X-Men win, Logan gets back to his present body to discover Bishop still in that time frame as well as a very much alive Scott and Jean. Roll credits.

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Old 07-31-2013, 02:44 PM   #104
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Bishop going back only to find out he didn't go back far enough is pointless and would be a waste of screen time. Why can't Xavier just have a vision that came to him from some alternate dimension? Or maybe Xavier is just one of those prophets that can forsee things? Bishop going back only to say, "Crap, didn't travel far enough" would just require too many unneccesary details.

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Old 07-31-2013, 02:48 PM   #105
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Default Re: Figuring out what could be changed

Bishop Is probally going to be sent to 2014/2018 to warn how hopeless things get In
2023 and most of mutants will be killed by Sentinles.Andd that Is what leads to the mind
switch plot.

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Old 07-31-2013, 02:58 PM   #106
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Thank you for clearing that up. That makes total sense.
No problem.

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Old 07-31-2013, 03:13 PM   #107
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At this point, the X-Men franchise's continuity makes the New 52's continuity look consistent in comparison.

I don't think we will see the continuity fixed anytime soon. If anything, it will get more and more convoluted with each film. I know Singer said DOFP will fix everything but I don't know if I could take his word for it since he co-wrote and produced First Class, which screwed up the continuity even further. Plus, even if the continuity is fixed, it will probably be in a way that won't make a lot of sense, especially with time travel involved. Most people will probably say to themselves "Well, it doesn't really make sense but at least the continuity is fixed".

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Old 07-31-2013, 03:31 PM   #108
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At this point, the X-Men franchise's continuity makes the New 52's continuity look consistent by comparison.
How, exactly, do 3 continuity issues AT MOST make the continuity of the X franchise so messed up?

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I don't know if I could take his word for it since he co-wrote and produced First Class, which screwed up the continuity even further.
How, exactly, did First Class mess up the continuity so horrendously?

(If you bring up the Emma and/or Moira things, I swear I will scream because neither of those things are actually continuity errors).

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Old 07-31-2013, 03:33 PM   #109
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At this point, the X-Men franchise's continuity makes the New 52's continuity look consistent in comparison.

I don't think we will see the continuity fixed anytime soon. If anything, it will get more and more convoluted with each film. I know Singer said DOFP will fix everything but I don't know if I could take his word for it since he co-wrote and produced First Class, which screwed up the continuity even further. Plus, even if the continuity is fixed, it will probably be in a way that won't make a lot of sense, especially with time travel involved. Most people will probably say to themselves "Well, it doesn't really make sense but at least the continuity is fixed".
I think FC 3 is where they can address the continuity should they choose. Genetic advancements could lead to artificial limbs or robotics that Xavier has installed in him. Since Eric/Charles probably unite in the 70's to stop Trask, Eric could help Charles build Cerebro. They could become allies again. Then that relationship breaks down again after they meet the young Jean Grey. Eric doesn't agree with the mind blocks. Maybe Dark Phoenix injures Charles with her mind in one of the sessions and Xavier becomes wheelchair ridden again. So you can fix the walking and some other minutiae in one swing of the bat. The other stuff can be explained as simple anomalies, but everything would make perfect sense based on the few solutions I propose here.

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Old 07-31-2013, 03:53 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by DigificWriter View Post
How, exactly, do 3 continuity issues AT MOST make the continuity of the X franchise so messed up?
I wish that was the case.

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How, exactly, did First Class mess up the continuity so horrendously?

(If you bring up the Emma and/or Moira things, I swear I will scream because neither of those things are actually continuity errors).
On top of the Emma and Moira things (which are continuity errors), there are also errors such as:
-Professor X walking.
-Eric and Xavier going their separate ways so soon despite Eric sticking around for longer, as established in the original trilogy.
-Xavier walking in X-Men Origins: Wolverine and X-Men: The Last Stand.
-Magneto not helping Xavier build Cerebro. Heck, Xavier barely had anything to do with Cerebro since Beast did most of it.
-Wolverine remembering a lot of his pre-Weapon X memories in The Wolverine despite not having regained them.
-Mystique and Xavier practically not knowing each other in the first 3 X-Men films.
-"You were always an animal. I just gave you claws." Except that he already claws prior to Weapon X. They weren't adamantium claws but still claws nonetheless.
-Sabertooth in X-Men being completely different from Sabertooth in X-Men Origins: Wolverine. It doesn't even seem as if Wolverine and Sabertooth are brothers or even know each other.
-"He won't remember anything after the operation." Except that he did. He only forgets his memories after being shot in the head with an adamantium bullet.

Those are about 10 continuity errors right there. These are all off the top of my head. I could probably think of more if I rewatched all films and then sat down to brainstorm some more.

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Old 07-31-2013, 03:59 PM   #111
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Default Re: Figuring out what could be changed

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Originally Posted by Shikamaru View Post
I wish that was the case.



On top of the Emma and Moira things (which are continuity errors), there are also errors such as:
-Professor X walking.
-Eric and Xavier going their separate ways so soon despite Eric sticking around for longer, as established in the original trilogy.
-Xavier walking in X-Men Origins: Wolverine and X-Men: The Last Stand.
-Magneto not helping Xavier build Cerebro. Heck, Xavier barely had anything to do with Cerebro since Beast did most of it.
-Wolverine remembering a lot of his pre-Weapon X memories in The Wolverine despite not having regained them.
-Mystique and Xavier practically not knowing each other in the first 3 X-Men films.
-"You were always an animal. I just gave you claws." Except that he already claws prior to Weapon X. They weren't adamantium claws but still claws nonetheless.
-Sabertooth in X-Men being completely different from Sabertooth in X-Men Origins: Wolverine. It doesn't even seem as if Wolverine and Sabertooth are brothers or even know each other.
-"He won't remember anything after the operation." Except that he did. He only forgets his memories after being shot in the head with an adamantium bullet.

Those are about 10 continuity errors right there. These are all off the top of my head. I could probably think of more if I rewatched all films and then sat down to brainstorm some more.
They can't be 'errors' if they are deliberate decisions to ignore/rewrite previous versions of events.

For instance: Clearly they knew they were adding a different Emma Frost and a different Sabretooth, and changing the date of when Xavier was crippled, so those things are a retcon not a mistake.

You're throwing around the word 'error' as if they made some big mistake.

Yes, there are things that don't line up, and it can be frustrating, but whether it's an 'error' is another matter entirely.

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Old 07-31-2013, 04:01 PM   #112
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Default Re: Figuring out what could be changed

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Originally Posted by Shikamaru View Post
I wish that was the case.



On top of the Emma and Moira things (which are continuity errors), there are also errors such as:
-Professor X walking.
-Eric and Xavier going their separate ways so soon despite Eric sticking around for longer, as established in the original trilogy.
-Xavier walking in X-Men Origins: Wolverine and X-Men: The Last Stand.
-Magneto not helping Xavier build Cerebro. Heck, Xavier barely had anything to do with Cerebro since Beast did most of it.
-Wolverine remembering a lot of his pre-Weapon X memories in The Wolverine despite not having regained them.
-Mystique and Xavier practically not knowing each other in the first 3 X-Men films.
-"You were always an animal. I just gave you claws." Except that he already claws prior to Weapon X. They weren't adamantium claws but still claws nonetheless.
-Sabertooth in X-Men being completely different from Sabertooth in X-Men Origins: Wolverine. It doesn't even seem as if Wolverine and Sabertooth are brothers or even know each other.
-"He won't remember anything after the operation." Except that he did. He only forgets his memories after being shot in the head with an adamantium bullet.

Those are about 10 continuity errors right there. These are all off the top of my head. I could probably think of more if I rewatched all films and then sat down to brainstorm some more.


I give up.

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"harm" is not the same thing as "stuff we don't like."
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"Despair is for people who know beyond any doubt what the future is going to be. Nobody's in that position. So despair is not only a kind of sin - theologically - it's also a simple mistake, because nobody actually knows." - Dr. Patrick Curry
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Old 07-31-2013, 04:18 PM   #113
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Bishop going back only to find out he didn't go back far enough is pointless and would be a waste of screen time. Why can't Xavier just have a vision that came to him from some alternate dimension? Or maybe Xavier is just one of those prophets that can forsee things? Bishop going back only to say, "Crap, didn't travel far enough" would just require too many unneccesary details.
Before we knew that this movie would touch on three different eras, I would have agreed with you. But since there is a "present" X-Men where supposedly things are not that bad yet, there has to be a reason for them to resort to time-travel. They have to know what's coming and see how hopeless the situation gets. Why else would they attempt to undo their history as they know it? Without that knowledge, they're going to take the team and try to defeat the Sentinels in present day. Either they do that, fail miserably to the point where that's where we see the majority of the deaths from the original storyline and THEN resort to time travel, or they have a heads up from the future.

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Old 07-31-2013, 04:34 PM   #114
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They can't be 'errors' if they are deliberate decisions to ignore/rewrite previous versions of events.

For instance: Clearly they knew they were adding a different Emma Frost and a different Sabretooth, and changing the date of when Xavier was crippled, so those things are a retcon not a mistake.

You're throwing around the word 'error' as if they made some big mistake.

Yes, there are things that don't line up, and it can be frustrating, but whether it's an 'error' is another matter entirely.
The first Wolverine film and First Class are clearly intended to be prequels and were marketed as just that. By definition, a prequel should try its best to not contradict anything that happened in the previous films.

And if they were going to deliberately ignore certain events but not rewrite others, what is the point of doing that in the first place? Why not just reboot in the first place? What's the point of having something that ignores half the events in the previous films but stays true to the other half? It's not like they decided to specifically ignore just the events that fans were dissapointed with (i.e. X-Men 3, X-Men Origins: Wolverine). They seem to have picked at random what to keep and what to ignore/rewrite.

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I give up.
How so? :/

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Old 07-31-2013, 04:42 PM   #115
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Default Re: Figuring out what could be changed

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Originally Posted by Shikamaru View Post
I wish that was the case.



On top of the Emma and Moira things (which are continuity errors), there are also errors such as:
-Professor X walking.
-Eric and Xavier going their separate ways so soon despite Eric sticking around for longer, as established in the original trilogy.
-Xavier walking in X-Men Origins: Wolverine and X-Men: The Last Stand.
-Magneto not helping Xavier build Cerebro. Heck, Xavier barely had anything to do with Cerebro since Beast did most of it.
-Wolverine remembering a lot of his pre-Weapon X memories in The Wolverine despite not having regained them.
-Mystique and Xavier practically not knowing each other in the first 3 X-Men films.
-"You were always an animal. I just gave you claws." Except that he already claws prior to Weapon X. They weren't adamantium claws but still claws nonetheless.
-Sabertooth in X-Men being completely different from Sabertooth in X-Men Origins: Wolverine. It doesn't even seem as if Wolverine and Sabertooth are brothers or even know each other.
-"He won't remember anything after the operation." Except that he did. He only forgets his memories after being shot in the head with an adamantium bullet.

Those are about 10 continuity errors right there. These are all off the top of my head. I could probably think of more if I rewatched all films and then sat down to brainstorm some more.
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I give up.
Pretty much my response, but I'll bite.

1.) You listed Xavier walking twice.
-While it is an inconsistency in the details, it changes nothing about the narration. This is hardly some mistake of large scale.

2.) This is not a continuity error. There are decades between the events of X-Men: First Class and X-Men in which Xavier and Magneto can re-unite and divide again as many times as is wanted. Xavier and Magneto may have gone their separate ways, but they are still friends. This very movie that we are discussing in this forum and thread is proof that Xavier and Magneto can work together again despite having gone their separate ways.

3.) The Cerebro in X-Men: First Class was not Xavier's Cerebro. Xavier and Magneto can still very well build a Cerebro together.

4.) This, I noticed as well. But the film also wasn't about him regaining his memory, and there is also an argument to be made that he had to gradually regain his WWII memories through the events of the movie. So not necessarily a continuity error.

5.) Mystique and Xavier were never even in the same place at the same time in the original trilogy. This is not a continuity error.

6.) A figure of speech is not a continuity error.

7.) Logan wouldn't know Sabretooth because he lost his memory. Sabretooth does have some sort of knowledge of Logan as evidenced by the personal rivalry he has with Logan, and the stealing of the dog tags.

8.) Did you not watch X-Men Origins: Wolverine? He escaped the chamber when he overheard Stryker ordering Logan's memory be wiped. Had Logan not gone all berserker in the Weapon X chamber, he -would have- lost his memory then and there, but he escaped before his memory could be erased.

You claim 10, only list 9, one of those 9 is listed twice, of the unique 8, only 2 of them are contradictions, of those 2, only one of them is of any sort of significance, and of that one that is of significance, there are arguments that it's not even a contradiction in the first place.

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Old 07-31-2013, 04:45 PM   #116
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Before we knew that this movie would touch on three different eras, I would have agreed with you. But since there is a "present" X-Men where supposedly things are not that bad yet, there has to be a reason for them to resort to time-travel. They have to know what's coming and see how hopeless the situation gets. Why else would they attempt to undo their history as they know it? Without that knowledge, they're going to take the team and try to defeat the Sentinels in present day. Either they do that, fail miserably to the point where that's where we see the majority of the deaths from the original storyline and THEN resort to time travel, or they have a heads up from the future.
But for storytelling purposes, why do the 2013 X-Men even have to known?

Why doesn't Bishop just time travel directly back to 1973 and tell the 1973 X-Men directly?

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Old 07-31-2013, 04:52 PM   #117
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But for storytelling purposes, why do the 2013 X-Men even have to known?

Why doesn't Bishop just time travel directly back to 1973 and tell the 1973 X-Men directly?
That's a good question, and one we won't know the answer to before the movie comes out. But I'm sure there's a good reason - if indeed Bishop does travel from 2023 to 2013. We don't even know if he does that, for sure.

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Old 07-31-2013, 04:57 PM   #118
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But for storytelling purposes, why do the 2013 X-Men even have to known?

Why doesn't Bishop just time travel directly back to 1973 and tell the 1973 X-Men directly?
I have a theory.

A while ago Angamb mentioned that Bishop would have a physical counterpart in 2013, that's got me thinking, if Bishop does travel perhaps it is by the same means that Wolverine does, e.g mind swap. So he travels back to 2013 where he would be alive to warn the present day X-Men and they send Wolverine back to 1973. Bishop can't go directly back to 1973 because he either was not born yet or would have been a really young child.
Thoughts???

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Old 07-31-2013, 05:04 PM   #119
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I have a theory.

A while ago Angamb mentioned that Bishop would have a physical counterpart in 2013, that's got me thinking, if Bishop does travel perhaps it is by the same means that Wolverine does, e.g mind swap. So he travels back to 2013 where he would be alive to warn the present day X-Men and they send Wolverine back to 1973. Bishop can't go directly back to 1973 because he either was not born yet or would have been a really young child.
Thoughts???
That works for me. Especially of we're right, and Wolverine dies in 2023.

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Old 07-31-2013, 05:05 PM   #120
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Maybe.

I just hope that the filmmakers remember what the actual point of Days of Future Past is.

That story revolved around traveling back in time to prevent an assassination that triggered anti-mutant hysteria and thus the Sentinels were greenlit into mass production, creating the oppressive future that the future X-Men were trying to avoid.

The story wasn't so that they could retcon a bunch of crap and change things that fanboys were unhappy with.

I don't want this movie to be a vehicle to simply retcon aspects of the series. I feel like the essence of this story is being lost, and people are focusing on what things can be changed due to time travel, when that was never the purpose of the film to begin with.

If it's done for suspense, for the right reasons - Bishop travels back in time to warn the present day X-Men of the Sentinel threat, and the present day X-Men trace the Sentinel threat to an assassination from back in the day and go back to 1973 to prevent said assassination, then I'm for it.

I get that Senator Kelly has already been used up, but I just hope the actual purpose of the story hasn't been forgotten.

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Old 07-31-2013, 05:48 PM   #121
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Pretty much my response, but I'll bite.

1.) You listed Xavier walking twice.
-While it is an inconsistency in the details, it changes nothing about the narration. This is hardly some mistake of large scale.

2.) This is not a continuity error. There are decades between the events of X-Men: First Class and X-Men in which Xavier and Magneto can re-unite and divide again as many times as is wanted. Xavier and Magneto may have gone their separate ways, but they are still friends. This very movie that we are discussing in this forum and thread is proof that Xavier and Magneto can work together again despite having gone their separate ways.

3.) The Cerebro in X-Men: First Class was not Xavier's Cerebro. Xavier and Magneto can still very well build a Cerebro together.

4.) This, I noticed as well. But the film also wasn't about him regaining his memory, and there is also an argument to be made that he had to gradually regain his WWII memories through the events of the movie. So not necessarily a continuity error.

5.) Mystique and Xavier were never even in the same place at the same time in the original trilogy. This is not a continuity error.

6.) A figure of speech is not a continuity error.

7.) Logan wouldn't know Sabretooth because he lost his memory. Sabretooth does have some sort of knowledge of Logan as evidenced by the personal rivalry he has with Logan, and the stealing of the dog tags.

8.) Did you not watch X-Men Origins: Wolverine? He escaped the chamber when he overheard Stryker ordering Logan's memory be wiped. Had Logan not gone all berserker in the Weapon X chamber, he -would have- lost his memory then and there, but he escaped before his memory could be erased.

You claim 10, only list 9, one of those 9 is listed twice, of the unique 8, only 2 of them are contradictions, of those 2, only one of them is of any sort of significance, and of that one that is of significance, there are arguments that it's not even a contradiction in the first place.
I will go.

It has been said Xavier walking out of plane In Origins Is a telepathic projection.Just Ignore the opening scene of last stand.

It's very doudtful you will suddenly have Xavier and Magneto working together again save for extradary event and common enemy.

I have said before and will again.Never was it said In X-Men and X2 xavier and magneto Invented cerebro.They built it.It can be explaned away as prior to leaving for cuba magneto helped xavier rebuild a version at mansion.

The comic con preview has Xavier dust off Cerebro In 1973.

The comics have had wolverine remember things when It suits their purposes

Mystique and Xavier are never in scene together.Plus she has been with Magneto for 40 years.That's longer than she was arounnd Xavier.

Calling what Stryker said an error? really.Plus the bone claws were taken from comics.

People expect the X-Men films to be faithful to every thing said In dialogue but don't hold other films,TV shows and Franchises to same stranded.

Star Trek for example took liberties to what has said In dialogue many times and totally retconned both the Klingons and borg.The borg twice.

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Old 07-31-2013, 06:05 PM   #122
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I will go.

It has been said Xavier walking out of plane In Origins Is a telepathic projection.Just Ignore the opening scene of last stand.
This isn't anywhere in the movies, thus I won't acknowledge it. Accepting that it's an inconsistency makes more sense than trying to explain it away with telepathic projections and hallucinations.

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It's very doudtful you will suddenly have Xavier and Magneto working together again save for extradary event and common enemy.
Which we are getting in X-Men: Days Of Future Past, and who knows what happened in the 10 years before that.

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I have said before and will again.Never was it said In X-Men and X2 xavier and magneto Invented cerebro.They built it.It can be explaned away as prior to leaving for cuba magneto helped xavier rebuild a version at mansion.

The comic con preview has Xavier dust off Cerebro In 1973.

The comics have had wolverine remember things when It suits their purposes

Mystique and Xavier are never in scene together.Plus she has been with Magneto for 40 years.That's longer than she was arounnd Xavier.

Calling what Stryker said an error? really.Plus the bone claws were taken from comics.

People expect the X-Men films to be faithful to every thing said In dialogue but don't hold other films,TV shows and Franchises to same stranded.

Star Trek for example took liberties to what has said In dialogue many times and totally retconned both the Klingons and borg.The borg twice.
I think you and I agree on the rest of these.

The age difference between Obi Won Kenobi in the original trilogy and the prequel trilogy is a bigger inconsistency than anything in the X-Men movies. Or the fact that Obi Won claimed he'd never seen R2D2 before... or the fact that Return Of The Jedi established that Leia's mother didn't die in childbirth...

I could go on, but there's really no inconsistency in the X-Men movies that's of any significance or consequence.

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Old 07-31-2013, 06:21 PM   #123
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I have a theory.

A while ago Angamb mentioned that Bishop would have a physical counterpart in 2013, that's got me thinking, if Bishop does travel perhaps it is by the same means that Wolverine does, e.g mind swap. So he travels back to 2013 where he would be alive to warn the present day X-Men and they send Wolverine back to 1973. Bishop can't go directly back to 1973 because he either was not born yet or would have been a really young child.
Thoughts???


Yup works for me

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Old 07-31-2013, 06:24 PM   #124
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Default Re: Figuring out what could be changed

And also maybe Bishop goes back to the present because maybe that is the last time Xavier would be alive, so Bishop can inform Present Charles to warn young Charles . . . But the I don't know why not just Charles transfers his own mind . . . . I'm gonna stop.

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Old 07-31-2013, 06:25 PM   #125
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Default Re: Figuring out what could be changed

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Originally Posted by Nell2ThaIzzay View Post
There's really no inconsistency in the X-Men movies that's of any significance or consequence.
I wouldn't go that far, but the genuine errors that do exist aren't significant enough to warrant using time travel to fix.

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