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Old 07-30-2013, 04:55 PM   #51
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Default Re: Why hate FOX?

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Originally Posted by Project862006 View Post
i cant stand marvel studio fan boys they wont support fox super hero films because it is not marvel studios even tho x men first class was a really good film with stellar performances and i just got back from the wolverine and it was such a beautifully crafted film and jackman's best performance to date

why cant you just enjoy all marvel films i personally preferred wolverine to im3 and first class to thor and cap and even rise of the apes was one of my fav. movies from 2011

fox has directors like mangold,vaughn,singer all stellar directors with strong visions and directing ability but they wont support their work because it is not part of the mcu
No, it's because they have more garbage than gold.

Apart from the trash superhero movies, they make garbage upon garbage like Freddy Got Fingered and F-UP franchises like Aliens vs Predators.

But you know what their biggest crime is? They're the ones that put out those spoof movies like Disaster Movie, Meet the Spartans, Vampires Suck. They're the ones that keep giving those two hacks Friedberg and Seltzer jobs.

For every Mangold, Vaughn, and Singer, they get Tim Story, Paul W.S. Anderson, the no name that directed Elektra, Brett Ratner the duo of Friedberg and Seltzer, and many many more.

So yeah, my hating on them has nothing to do with being a mcu fanboy.

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Old 07-30-2013, 05:20 PM   #52
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Default Re: Why hate FOX?

Are people here hoping DOFP will fail so Marvel can get X-Men back?

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Old 07-30-2013, 05:50 PM   #53
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Default Re: Why hate FOX?

The Fox hate is non-sensical, childish and hypocritical MCU fanboyism.

MCU fanboys delude themselves into thinking Marvel are perfect, comic accurate, respectful of the source material and only make the movies to please comic fans.

• The MCU is just as far removed from the source material as the XCU.

• Marvel is out to make money just like Fox, Sony and WB, they don't care anymore about the adaptions than others.

• Marvel has bastardised characters just as much as Fox.


Fox has been making X-Men movies for 13 years, thats 8 years longer than Marvel Studios, The XCU iis more established than the MCU.

Lets start at the beginning.

Marvel Enterprises sold the rights to their biggest characters to various movies studios as they were going bankrupt.
Fox didn't steal them by force, MARVEL sold them willingly to stay in business.

Why should Fox logically sell something they've been developing and are invested in for so long?

Without Fox and some other studios, but mainly Fox, and the money they paid Marvel for the characters, Marvel Comics may have gone under and wouldn't even have been able to start making movies.

Fox is indirectly responsible for the MCU coming to fruition.

Not only that but are responsible for kickstarting blockbuster Marvel movies, they and Bryan Singer were the first to bring iconic franchise marvel characters to the big screen and starting the genre.

Not all have been good, but Respect is due for their contributions to the genre, without them Marvel comics movies wouldn't be where they are now or possibly not at all.


Aside from that, lets look at the X-Men movies, their main focus.

4/6 are good to great movies, thats a 66% positive track record.

Disney is around 4/7 good to great movies, that's 57%.

So the X-Men movies have a better overall track record for quality than Disney. Now this is subjective based on individual opinion of movies but no matter how you shake it, it comes up at least even in good/bad movies.


MCU Fanboys complain about Fox bastardising and raping certain characters and claim Marvel would "do them right".

Well lets look at the differences of "correctly" adapted MCU characters and events:

• Jarvis is not an A.I but an actual Human butler.
• Red Skull wasn't created by Dr Erskine, he was trained by Hitler and given a Red Skull mask to invoke fear.
• Whiplash is bastardisation of Backlash and Crymson Dynamo with little resemblence to each character.
• Mandarin... you all know how that turned out.
• T'Challa gave the Vibranium Shield to Captain America not Howard Stark
• Steve Rogers didn't know Bucky Barnes before he became Captain America
• Jane Foster is a Nurse not a Scientist
• Antman and Wasp were among the founding members of The Avengers not Black Widow and Hawkeye.
• Aldrich Killian didn't form A.I.M he worked for Futurepharm, developed Extremis, sold a sample to some terrorists and feeling guilty killed himself
• Red Skull didn't use the Cosmic Cube in WW2
• Black Widow fought the Avengers and Iron Man long before joining them or SHIELD
• Thor isn't Thor the whole time. Odin placed his being into a disabled Medical Student Donald Blake, Blake found Mjoinir and transformed into Thor. He transforms back and forth and has this secret identity life too
• Heimdall and Sif and brother and sister in the Comics but not in the movies.
• SHIELD did not form the Avengers.

• Ultron was created by Hank Pym, aside from slapping his wife it's the only contribution he's made to the universe, they are taking that from him and giving it to Iron Man.

Disney is just as guilty of changing the comics for the screen. When you think of changing Ultrons origin a brillaint stroke but go nuts over changing an X-Men characters origin you are a bias hypocrite.


Fanboys claim that it's 'Wolverine and the X-Men' all the time and Marvel wouldn't do that.

Well the fact is that Wolverine is the most popular and bankable X-Man and is naturally the one to build the movies around.

Sound familiar?

That's because Marvel have done the same thing with Iron Man.

In just 5 years Tony Stark has made 5 appearances, thats one less than Wolverine over 13 years so to be sick of Wolverine taking the spotlight over 13 years and not sick of Iron Man taking the spotlight over less than half that time is hypocritical rubbish.

Let's look at The Avengers.

Who saved Captain Americas butt in Germany?
Who fought Thor?
Who walked ino the briefing and spelled out what the villain was looking for?
Who was the one to talk smack to the supposed leader?
Who was the one to believe in Banner being able to control the beast?
Who was the one to title them The Avengers and face down the villain all alone?
Who was the one to sacrificed himself at the end?

It sure as hell wasn't Captain America the supposed "leader" and main character of the team.

The Wolverine/Cyclops dynamic and screenhogging was played the same in the MCU with Iron Man/Captain America.


On to the costumes. Most don't like the costumes in the X-Men franchise, me included. But instead of asking why people just whine.

It's pretty clear. X-Men came right off of the Bat-Nipple campiness fiasco. Not only would the brightly coloured costume look odd in quite a grounded and serious movie but people weren't ready for such garish costumes. over time costumes became more colourful as the genre grew, but back in 2000 they'd have been laughed off the screen.


I'm a Marvel Characters fan, in the real world.

This means changing things doesn't bother me if they work better for the big screen.

I am open to ALL Marvel movies. ALL are valid, ALL have crappy movies in their record, ALL adapt and dilute the source material, ALL have good and bad attempts.

The people who don't consider non-MCU movie as "not really Marvel movies" aren't real marvel fans. It's the same as those who claim to be Batman fans but disregard everything except all mighty Nolan.

They're petty, ignorant pissants who need a reality check. and especially need to STFU about rights and trying to make out that things are terrible before they have been even made or released.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Project862006 View Post
i cant stand marvel studio fan boys they wont support fox super hero films because it is not marvel studios even tho x men first class was a really good film with stellar performances and i just got back from the wolverine and it was such a beautifully crafted film and jackman's best performance to date

why cant you just enjoy all marvel films i personally preferred wolverine to im3 and first class to thor and cap and even rise of the apes was one of my fav. movies from 2011

fox has directors like mangold,vaughn,singer all stellar directors with strong visions and directing ability but they wont support their work because it is not part of the mcu
Precisely, someone with common sense.

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Old 07-30-2013, 05:57 PM   #54
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Default Re: Why hate FOX?

Wow, wall of text. But honestly, you lost me at the X-Men universe being more established then the MCU. Considering how often the X-Men films have contradicted themselves.. yeah no.

And globally it is far from more established. Just look at the box office.

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Old 07-30-2013, 06:09 PM   #55
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Default Re: Why hate FOX?

It's been running for 13 years opposed to Disneys 5 years. thats what i meant by established.

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Old 07-30-2013, 06:16 PM   #56
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Default Re: Why hate FOX?

I don't get the FOX hate.

I loved X-Men, X-Men 2 and X-Men:First Class. Thought all 3 were Great films.

I also liked Daredevil (esp. the directors cut), I think it beats the Nolan/Batman films as the first dark/grounded superhero film.

I also liked Fantastic 4:Rise of the Silver Surfer. Granted it's not great, but I thought they got a lot right in that film: the humor with the team, Silver Surfer was great, Dr. Doom was better (not great, just better). Yeah, the Galactus-Cloud thing was bad, but I find the movie to be an entertaining time-waster! Lol

Haven't seen The Wolverine, so I can't comment on it. but in my opinion, Fox is 3 for 5 in X-Men films, 1 for 2 in FF films and 1 for 2 in Daredevil films (I'm counting the horrible Elektra movie here). So that's an above .500 batting average, and The Wolverine is getting good reviews, so that bodes well for the Fox average.

Plus, I think X-Menays of Future Past has the potential to be amazing.

I will always be a Marvel guy, but I look forward to what Fox, Sony and WB/DC (as well as anyone else) can give me. This is a golden age for CBM!

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Old 07-30-2013, 06:20 PM   #57
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It's been running for 13 years opposed to Disneys 5 years. thats what i meant by established.
And in those 13 years, they have only made 6 movies. Marvel just released their 7th film. Thor comes out in Nov.

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Old 07-30-2013, 06:22 PM   #58
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Default Re: Why hate FOX?

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Are people here hoping DOFP will fail so Marvel can get X-Men back?
No.

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Old 07-30-2013, 06:24 PM   #59
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I will always be a Marvel guy, but I look forward to what Fox, Sony and WB/DC (as well as anyone else) can give me. This is a golden age for CBM!
Right there with ya buddy.

I'm looking forward to nearly everything no matter who is directing or what studio is making them.

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Old 07-30-2013, 06:29 PM   #60
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Default Re: Why hate FOX?

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Are people here hoping DOFP will fail so Marvel can get X-Men back?
Of course not. We'd much rather have a First Class than a Last Stand.

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Old 07-30-2013, 06:34 PM   #61
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Default Re: Why hate FOX?

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Originally Posted by RedBlueWonder View Post
Are people here hoping DOFP will fail so Marvel can get X-Men back?
My guess is most fans are ok with FOX keeping the X-Men characters. FOX invested in a big name director and A-list talent, and took on a sizeable risk in putting a superhero team on the big screen. Though there have been some major missteps with XM:TLS and XMO:W, the films have been, at the very least, entertaining. And while I love the MCU, we've all seen the problem of putting too many superpowered characters onscreen (see above).

But if FOX doesn't give up on their foolish attempt to reboot the FF, I sincerely hope that DOFP, X Force and whatever X team they put onscreen continues the box office slide of a series that peaked in 2006.

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Old 07-30-2013, 06:44 PM   #62
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Default Re: Why hate FOX?

Indeed, when i see people wanting a Civil War or AvX movie i can't help but think why? look at Last stand and SM3.

Characters need to develop otherwise they're just walking props

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Old 07-30-2013, 06:47 PM   #63
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Indeed, when i see people wanting a Civil War or AvX movie i can't help but think why? look at Last stand and SM3.

Characters need to develop otherwise they're just walking props
Or as I like to put it, the majority of mutants in the X-Men films.

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Old 07-30-2013, 07:02 PM   #64
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^ Post Singer i agree.

Thor, Cap and Hawkeye in Avengers too.

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Old 07-30-2013, 07:09 PM   #65
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^ Post Singer i agree.

Thor, Cap and Hawkeye in Avengers too.
Hawkeye is minimized, but still has a character and signature moments. Thor and Cap are all over the Avengers and are brilliant.

Singer minimized Cyclops. The leader of the X-Men who never even leads the X-Men.

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Old 07-30-2013, 07:15 PM   #66
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Default Re: Why hate FOX?

First Class is the only X-Men team film that I felt got it truly right with regards to the characters. Pretty much everyone is given a purpose and character in that film. Banshee's character may not be as deep as Magneto's, but at least he's given a character. Too many characters even in the Singer films are just afterthoughts. It, of course, got much worse in Last Stand.

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Old 07-30-2013, 07:16 PM   #67
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No, it's because for every film they manage to not completely screw up they half-ass three others just to make a quick buck or to retain rights. They lack respect for the properties and it shows.
i must say i agree with this, i like first class but i understand why some don't. but i agree FOX has pretty much blown their opportunity with the x-films. just like the AVP franchise. they just don't care, they had ample opurtunity to make a epic comic film out of the x-franchise but they were too cheap and safe. plus the films gotten too wolverine centric. days of future past looks no different. i have nothing against wolverine but DAMN MAN!! lol

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Old 07-30-2013, 07:17 PM   #68
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First Class is the only X-Men team film that I felt got it truly right with regards to the characters. Pretty much everyone is given a purpose and character in that film. Banshee's character may not be as deep as Magneto's, but at least he's given a character. Too many characters even in the Singer films are just afterthoughts.
Completely agree. The baddies outside of Shaw and Frost might have been short changed, but the X-Men themselves felt like true characters. Darwin doesn't even make it to the training montage and still I cringe every time he dies.

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Old 07-30-2013, 07:19 PM   #69
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Default Re: Why hate FOX?

Because of all Marvel films, the biggest disappointments were by Fox.

X-Men, pretty good
Daredevil, awful
X2, very good
Elektra, abortion
Fantastic Four, terrible
X-Men: The Last Stand, HUGE disappointment
X-Men Origins: Wolverine, arguably the WORST comic book movie made
Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer, pathetic

X-Men: First Class and The Wolverine were both very good. DOFP has the potential to be amazing.

Now look at the MCU films:
Iron Man, one of the best comic book films made
The Incredible Hulk, solid
Iron Man 2, not what it should have been, but still decent
Thor, great
Captain America, great
Avengers, amazing
Iron Man 3, again, solid.

Fox has made four passable movies: X-Men, The Last Stand, First Class and The Wolverine. That's four out of ten.

MCU has made six passable movies: Iron Man, TIH, Thor, CA:TFA, Avengers, Iron Man 3. That's six out of seven (Iron Man 2 being the only exception).

Bottom line, Fox has made crap until their last two films. It's that simple.

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Old 07-30-2013, 07:20 PM   #70
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Default Re: Why hate FOX?

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Completely agree. The baddies outside of Shaw and Frost might have been short changed, but the X-Men themselves felt like true characters. Darwin doesn't even make it to the training montage and still I cringe every time he dies.
And Angel.

Azazel and Riptide were essentially just goons, but they did get entertaining fight scenes (especially Azazel) and you get a brief glimpse into their motivations even unspoken in how they respond to Shaw's death and Magneto's offer of friendship. That's more than what Colossus does in Last Stand and he's on the main team.

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Old 07-30-2013, 07:21 PM   #71
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Default Re: Why hate FOX?

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First Class is the only X-Men team film that I felt got it truly right with regards to the characters. Pretty much everyone is given a purpose and character in that film. Banshee's character may not be as deep as Magneto's, but at least he's given a character. Too many characters even in the Singer films are just afterthoughts. It, of course, got much worse in Last Stand.
Agreed, but in X2 they also had purpose...

Logan guarded the mansion and the younger X-Men.
Jean and storm searched for Nightcrawler
Scott and Xavier went to visit Magneto.

And character.

Jean was losing control of her powers
Wolverine had to decide between being a loner and a team player
Rogue and Bobby pursued their relationship
Pyro questioned his affiliation and defected
Storm questioned her beliefs with Nightcrawler
Scott was Hawkeyed sadly
Xavier was used as a weapon.

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Fox has made four good movies: X-Men, X2, First Class and The Wolverine.

MCU has made three good movies: Iron Man, Thor and CA:TFA
^ this is my opinion of those movies quality.


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Old 07-30-2013, 07:25 PM   #72
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Default Re: Why hate FOX?

I want all Marvel Movies to succeed, I want studios to work together and make a massive Marvel Universe

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Old 07-30-2013, 07:39 PM   #73
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fox has directors like mangold,vaughn,singer all stellar directors with strong visions and directing ability but they wont support their work because it is not part of the mcu
you mean the directors FOX kept railroading and interfering with?

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Old 07-30-2013, 07:42 PM   #74
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Default Re: Why hate FOX?

Same reason Favreau didn't return for IM3, he's spoken about how they interfered so much with IM2 that he left as he wouldn't have any control over IM3.

Quite a shame as he was responsible for the only decent Iron Man movie.

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Old 07-30-2013, 08:16 PM   #75
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Who saved Captain Americas butt in Germany?
Who fought Thor?
Who walked ino the briefing and spelled out what the villain was looking for?
Who was the one to talk smack to the supposed leader?
Who was the one to believe in Banner being able to control the beast?
Who was the one to title them The Avengers and face down the villain all alone?
Who was the one to sacrificed himself at the end?
1. He didn't really save his butt considering Loki wanted to get captured anyway.
2. Loki, Hulk and Iron Man. Cap ended the fight between Thor and IM, so Cap saved IM's butt.
3. The genius.
4. That's what Tony Stark does.
5. Well, Tony was the most fascinated with him.
6. Nick Fury titled them The Avengers. Thor, Hulk and IM faced the villain. Even Cap faced the villain. BW faced the villain. Hawkeye faced the villain. COULSON.
7. The guy who was accused of being selfish earlier on in the movie. Cap always sacrifices himself, doing it in this movie would have meant nothing.

In fact, after the movie A LOT of people claimed that Hulk stole the show. He did defeat the actual villain.

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