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Old 07-31-2013, 07:38 PM   #101
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Default Re: Days of Future Past News and Discussion - Part 8

@Nell, The Englishman, and jaymes: I looked up some info on the subject of surnames for children born out of wedlock, and, in the U.S., there is no automatic guideline for this. A child born out of wedlock can be given the mother's surname, the father's surname, or a surname that is neither the mother or father's, so while my statement wasn't as absolute as I thought it was, it is by no means a given that Scott would automatically have the surname Summers if he were born out of wedlock, especially if Alex wasn't present and Scott's mother died during childbirth (as it's kind of implied - if not outright stated in O:W and X1 that Scott's parents weren't in the picture).

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"harm" is not the same thing as "stuff we don't like."
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"Despair is for people who know beyond any doubt what the future is going to be. Nobody's in that position. So despair is not only a kind of sin - theologically - it's also a simple mistake, because nobody actually knows." - Dr. Patrick Curry
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"There is no "supposed to be." It's an adaptation, a word that literally means change. Why bother making a new version if it doesn't offer a fresh approach?" - Christopher L. Bennett

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Old 07-31-2013, 08:37 PM   #102
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That's not ignoring anything to the extent you're trying to imply.

I've already stated that walking Xavier in all of 2 scenes that combined add up to about a minute of screentime doesn't change the narrative in any way, and as far as Xavier and Magneto being together, already explained it is quite feasible that Xavier and Magneto have reunited. Afterall, that is a common theme between these 2 characters in the source material, and after X-Men: Days Of Future Past, we'll have 2 movies where Xavier and Magneto have reunited to work against a common enemy, plus a 3rd where they worked together before their initial fallout.

It is completely feasible, and even likely, that after their fallout in X-Men: First Class, they reunited during the events of X-Men: Days Of Future Past, and remained together through that opening scene of X-Men: The Last Stand, where later on the disagreement over Jean Grey would lead to the fallout that we see beginning in X-Men.

That's not a contradiction. It's simply a case where all the blanks haven't been filled in yet.

That's like saying that The Wolverine ignored X2 because it didn't address the history between Logan and Stryker.
HE. COULD. WALK.

And we're talking about a character where one of his defining life moments was where he lost his ability to move his legs. FC was deliberately ignoring the scenes of the walking Xvaier in X3 and Origins. That's not a case of filing in the blanks, that's a contradiction, plain and simple. We can argue all day about how BIG of a contradiction it is, but there is no getting around the fact that it IS a contradiction.

That said, even if you want to go with the setup wonky timeline, Havok would still be old enough to have Scott for a kid. Even if he was only 17 in FC (though I'd place him in his 20's) he easily could have had a kid within a few years of FC.

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Old 07-31-2013, 09:32 PM   #103
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HE. COULD. WALK.

And we're talking about a character where one of his defining life moments was where he lost his ability to move his legs. FC was deliberately ignoring the scenes of the walking Xvaier in X3 and Origins. That's not a case of filing in the blanks, that's a contradiction, plain and simple. We can argue all day about how BIG of a contradiction it is, but there is no getting around the fact that it IS a contradiction.

That said, even if you want to go with the setup wonky timeline, Havok would still be old enough to have Scott for a kid. Even if he was only 17 in FC (though I'd place him in his 20's) he easily could have had a kid within a few years of FC.
To paraphrase Princess Leia, "I don't know where you get your delusions". Is the Xavier walking thing an issue? Yes. Is it as significant an issue as you think it is?

[Daniel Bryan Voice]NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO![/DANIEL BRYAN VOICE]

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"harm" is not the same thing as "stuff we don't like."
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"Despair is for people who know beyond any doubt what the future is going to be. Nobody's in that position. So despair is not only a kind of sin - theologically - it's also a simple mistake, because nobody actually knows." - Dr. Patrick Curry
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"There is no "supposed to be." It's an adaptation, a word that literally means change. Why bother making a new version if it doesn't offer a fresh approach?" - Christopher L. Bennett
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Old 07-31-2013, 09:36 PM   #104
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Default Re: Days of Future Past News and Discussion - Part 8

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To paraphrase Princess Leia, "I don't know where you get your delusions". Is the Xavier walking thing an issue? Yes. Is it as significant an issue as you think it is?
[Daniel Bryan Voice]NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO![/DANIEL BRYAN VOICE]
It shows that they were purposefully willing to ignore parts of those movies, which goes along with my point that trying to establish a timeline in this franchise is silly since the directors themselves don't adhere to it.

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Old 07-31-2013, 09:47 PM   #105
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It shows that they were purposefully willing to ignore parts of those movies, which goes along with my point that trying to establish a timeline in this franchise is silly since the directors themselves don't adhere to it.
It does nothing of the sort.

The fact of the matter is this: Vaughn and Singer told the story they wanted to tell in the way they wanted to tell it, and weren't that concerned about whether or not telling that story contradicted two incredibly minor instances in two movies with which they weren't associated. When you're dealing with a long-standing franchise, contradictions are going to happen at some point, but that doesn't mean that you throw out the parts that don't fit together 100% perfectly.

The Star Trek franchise has been riddled over the years with numerous contradictions, but those contradictions don't mean you throw out the parts of the franchise in which they appear or that it is invalid to cite the parts of the franchise in which said contradictions appear as part of the franchise's canon, particularly when talking about the in-universe chronology of the franchise.

Even with the Xavier walking inconsistency in First Class vis a vis Origins: Wolverine and The Last Stand, all 3 of those films remain a valid part of the franchise whether you personally like it (or them) or not, and it is therefore valid to refer to them when talking about whether or not things make sense vis a vis the franchise's continuity or, in this instance, whether or not it is feasible that Alex Summers could be Scott's father.

While we're on that subject, BTW, it doesn't ultimately matter whether or not one could feasibly come up with an explanation that would allow the two characters to be related... the fact remains that, based on what we are presented with, there is currently no canonical indication that there is in fact any relation between them.

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"harm" is not the same thing as "stuff we don't like."
Quote:
"Despair is for people who know beyond any doubt what the future is going to be. Nobody's in that position. So despair is not only a kind of sin - theologically - it's also a simple mistake, because nobody actually knows." - Dr. Patrick Curry
Quote:
"There is no "supposed to be." It's an adaptation, a word that literally means change. Why bother making a new version if it doesn't offer a fresh approach?" - Christopher L. Bennett
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Old 07-31-2013, 09:53 PM   #106
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It does nothing of the sort.

The fact of the matter is this: Vaughn and Singer told the story they wanted to tell in the way they wanted to tell it, and weren't that concerned about whether or not telling that story contradicted two incredibly minor instances in two movies with which they weren't associated. When you're dealing with a long-standing franchise, contradictions are going to happen at some point, but that doesn't mean that you throw out the parts that don't fit together 100% perfectly.

The Star Trek franchise has been riddled over the years with numerous contradictions, but those contradictions don't mean you throw out the parts of the franchise in which they appear or that it is invalid to cite the parts of the franchise in which said contradictions appear as part of the franchise's canon, particularly when talking about the in-universe chronology of the franchise.

Even with the Xavier walking inconsistency in First Class vis a vis Origins: Wolverine and The Last Stand, all 3 of those films remain a valid part of the franchise whether you personally like it (or them) or not, and it is therefore valid to refer to them when talking about whether or not things make sense vis a vis the franchise's continuity or, in this instance, whether or not it is feasible that Alex Summers could be Scott's father.

While we're on that subject, BTW, it doesn't ultimately matter whether or not one could feasibly come up with an explanation that would allow the two characters to be related... the fact remains that, based on what we are presented with, there is currently no canonical indication that there is in fact any relation between them.
Yes, all directors told the story they wanted to tell. And because of that, some directors ignored the timeline in the films. Thus, trying to use said timeline to prove a point that Cyclops couldn't be Havok's son, is useless, since the directors themselves have already been shown to adjust/ignore/change the timeline to suit their needs.

Which was my entire point to begin with.

Secondly, the fact that Havok's last name is Summers, and that Singer hinted that their was some kind of relationship, just not a sibling one, should be more then enough evidence to infer a relationship between the two. There may be no blatant proof, but there is certainly an indication.

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Old 07-31-2013, 10:22 PM   #107
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Yay! It'd be cool to see Lawrence become the silent terrorist in this one. She's a good actress. Even with less lines I think she could have a commanding presence on screen.

Quick question though, about the three timelines:
Why would the future mutants (Warpath, Blink, Sunspot) need to be together at some point with the present mutants (Iceman, Kitty, Wolverine) at any point during film making? If I remember correctly, there was a video on Singer's twitter that suggested that the actors would be in the same place at some point, but separate timelines suggests the opposite to me.

Also, a question that I think Kasjan answered but I am still confused: What does 'Days of Future Past' mean? In your opinion or officially. Someone told me it may have originally referred to Kitty's apocalyptic future as a future that is in her past because she manages to escape it through time travel and also that it is a future that is passed by changing the past that leads to it. Any theories?


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Old 07-31-2013, 10:24 PM   #108
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Default Re: Days of Future Past News and Discussion - Part 8

I know that Alex is related to Scott in some capacity in the filmverse. What I meant was that DOFP could clarify EXACTLY how they are related (brothers, cousins, father/son, etc).

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Old 08-01-2013, 12:03 AM   #109
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I think Father and Son would make the most sense given the generation gap.

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Old 08-01-2013, 12:13 AM   #110
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Default Re: Days of Future Past News and Discussion - Part 8

Would be interesting if they show a young Cyclops as Havok's kid, since it has been 10 years since First Class and it's believable that Cyclops could have been born in the 70's in this universe.

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Old 08-01-2013, 12:51 AM   #111
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Would be interesting if they show a young Cyclops as Havok's kid, since it has been 10 years since First Class and it's believable that Cyclops could have been born in the 70's in this universe.
Polaris= Scotts mom?

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Old 08-01-2013, 04:39 AM   #112
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Quick question though, about the three timelines:
Why would the future mutants (Warpath, Blink, Sunspot) need to be together at some point with the present mutants (Iceman, Kitty, Wolverine) at any point during film making? If I remember correctly, there was a video on Singer's twitter that suggested that the actors would be in the same place at some point, but separate timelines suggests the opposite to me.
It simply means they filmed the two future timelines during the same block of filming which isn't unusual. Singer said the scheduling was a nightmare. Patrick etc could only be on set for a certain period and the two future timeline scenes had to be filmed prior to the past ones. So they will just do a bit of this and a bit of that. They will likely of had two lots of sets on the lot, present day and the apocalypse one.

The 2023 scenes will not be big ones as that cast were on set for a shorter amount of time than the OT cast going by Twitter and when people arrived. Anna couldn't have filmed with Booboo Stewart during her known work because he arrived the 2nd week after she left. So if Rogue probably doesn't have scenes with Warpath etc and she didn't have a chair then it's highly unlikely the new mutants meet the OT ones. Not unless Bishop is in the present day timeline.

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Old 08-01-2013, 07:58 AM   #113
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I have a genuine question for the folks who think Alex and Scott are or should be related: within the context of the films, why is a familial relationship between them so significant?

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Old 08-01-2013, 08:29 AM   #114
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They have the same last name and it would mean Scott would be reintroduced in the First Class timeline possibly retconning his death.

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Old 08-01-2013, 08:31 AM   #115
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I have a genuine question for the folks who think Alex and Scott are or should be related: within the context of the films, why is a familial relationship between them so significant?
Having a familial relationship between characters over different time periods makes the onscreen universe feel more like a real place and creates a richer connection between characters. Though we don't know if Scott will show up in DOFP, Professor X having "raised" two generations of Summers boys adds a new, interesting layer to their relationship.

I liken it to the MCU and the multigenerational relationships between Steve, Howard, Tony, Peggy and in CA:TWS, Sharon. Having a shared familial history creates a connection that adds additional context to character interactions, and allows the viewer to develop stronger ties to the heroes we see onscreen.

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Old 08-01-2013, 08:34 AM   #116
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I have a genuine question for the folks who think Alex and Scott are or should be related: within the context of the films, why is a familial relationship between them so significant?
i think its because they didn't really try and distance any link between them either, i mean if your gonna try and hide any relation then you do a better job with it like if you look at the recruiting process in First class he was the only one whose name was actually spoken "alex summers" while with the others they were just like pft we don't need to know their names

and his powers being red also feels like a nod, infact he does feel like the cyclops of first class in many ways

i think vaughn intended them to be related but wasn't really thinking ahead

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Old 08-01-2013, 08:34 AM   #117
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Having a familial relationship between characters over different time periods makes the onscreen universe feel more like a real place and creates a richer connection between characters. Though we don't know if Scott will show up in DOFP, Professor X having "raised" two generations of Summers boys adds a new, interesting layer to their relationship.
totally agree.

I want a rich movie universe, not a lazy and cheap one, regarding the characters and their connections.

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Old 08-01-2013, 08:35 AM   #118
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I have a genuine question for the folks who think Alex and Scott are or should be related: within the context of the films, why is a familial relationship between them so significant?
Can't believe you're actually asking that.

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Old 08-01-2013, 09:57 AM   #119
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Can't believe you're actually asking that.
Why? I honestly hadn't considered 'universe enrichment' as being a valid argument for the two characters having a familial connection, as there's nothing in the way the characters are portrayed that automatically says 'they must be related by blood' (IMO, anyway)

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"harm" is not the same thing as "stuff we don't like."
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"Despair is for people who know beyond any doubt what the future is going to be. Nobody's in that position. So despair is not only a kind of sin - theologically - it's also a simple mistake, because nobody actually knows." - Dr. Patrick Curry
Quote:
"There is no "supposed to be." It's an adaptation, a word that literally means change. Why bother making a new version if it doesn't offer a fresh approach?" - Christopher L. Bennett
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Old 08-01-2013, 10:50 AM   #120
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We saw little Scott and Ororo in FC when Xavier used Cerebro first time.
How teenager Alex could be father of 5-6 year old Scott?

They are brothers or they aren't, it should be explained in DOFP.
Logan will meet Alex Summers in Vietnam, or maybe in X-Men mansion, it will be ridiculous, if Logan doesn't ask him about Scott.

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Old 08-01-2013, 10:57 AM   #121
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I dont think it should be adressed on this movie at all, but more on the next one, once they introduce young Cyclops.

Havok is in this movie and more than likely has contact with Charles. That, to me, is more than enough.

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Old 08-01-2013, 11:03 AM   #122
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We saw little Scott and Ororo in FC when Xavier used Cerebro first time.
How teenager Alex could be father of 5-6 year old Scott?

They are brothers or they aren't, it should be explained in DOFP.
Logan will meet Alex Summers in Vietnam, or maybe in X-Men mansion, it will be ridiculous, if Logan doesn't ask him about Scott.
What? When did that happen?

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Old 08-01-2013, 11:14 AM   #123
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What? When did that happen?
When Charles uses first time Hank's Cerebro, and he sees some mutants.

Ororo


Scott

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Old 08-01-2013, 11:16 AM   #124
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^^ that was an easter egg pretty much, singer will retcon that

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Old 08-01-2013, 11:25 AM   #125
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I hated how both young Cyclops on the prequels already had the glasses, since that drop the idea of Scott discovering his power on an actual movie and Xavier giving him the glasses.

This is why I hate cameos like this. Decisions like this end limiting possible storylines for next movies, or just bring more contradictions, once the next movie uses the character in a different way, ignoring a past cameo.

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