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Old 09-19-2013, 04:24 PM   #1
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Default What would have happened if Avengers failed?

I think it's not a stretch to say all the comic book movie moves we're seeing right now is because of how successful the Avengers were. It wouldn't be out of question to think that, if the Avengers had failed, we wouldn't have gotten Guardians of the Galaxy, Agents of SHIELD, or maybe even this new Agent Carter TV series, and that's just from the Marvel side. Fox may not be doing X-Men DOFP and planning to expand the X-verse with X-Force, and Sony may not be planning to form a Sinister Six. And with DC, we might not have been getting Batman/Superman or an expanded DC universe.

So, like they thread title says, what do you think the scenario would have been if the Avengers failed?

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Old 09-19-2013, 04:46 PM   #2
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Default Re: What would have happened if Avengers failed?

Marvel Studios dies on the vine. WB continues to make nothing but Batman movies. Fox still doesn't make a FF reboot.

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Old 09-19-2013, 05:01 PM   #3
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Default Re: What would have happened if Avengers failed?

I think they would have cranked out one or two more Iron Man movies that would feature some face-saving, fan appeasing, cameos from Avengers.

But ultimately, once RDJ became too old they'd replace him with Colin Farrell or whatever, people would stop going to see them... and that, as they say, would be that.

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Old 09-19-2013, 05:02 PM   #4
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Default Re: What would have happened if Avengers failed?

That's a damn good question, and, as your OP points out, shows just how much Avengers has changed the landscape for ALL superhero movies.

I won't go so far as to say that Marvel Studios would have just failed outright, but the focus would've gone even more Tony-centric than it already is. IM3 would've still made a buttload o' cash, but probably not the bill-plus it did IRL. RDJ would've probably decided that the "fad" had run its course, bowed out at the top of his game, and tried his hand at other material.

Singer shows no interest in returning to X-Men, so Vaughn gets his sequel, and it's just basically XMFC2, with no aspirations for any expansion of the cinematic universe beyond that.

On the plus side, in a lot of people's view, Fox would've probably been more open to selling off their Fantastic Four property to Marvel, and Marvel would've probably at least gambled on introducing them to the MCU.

Warners is stuck with permanent blinders on --- Batman on one blinker, and Superman on the other. World's Finest/B vs. S or whatever probably still gets greenlit, but Justice League, the Flash series, and even the Arrow series probably die in development hell.

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Old 09-19-2013, 05:09 PM   #5
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Default Re: What would have happened if Avengers failed?

Marvel give the rights back to FOX

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Old 09-19-2013, 05:30 PM   #6
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Default Re: What would have happened if Avengers failed?

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Old 09-19-2013, 06:17 PM   #7
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Default Re: What would have happened if Avengers failed?

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Marvel Studios dies on the vine. WB continues to make nothing but Batman movies. Fox still doesn't make a FF reboot.
Let's not forget Man of Steel was still filming when this was going on. So Man of Steel would've still been released, and it would have gotten the same reception it did as well as the same earnings it got from the box office domestically and internationally, but nevertheless the DC Cinematic Universe might still get the go-ahead albeit at a MUCH slower pace? We probably would not have seen Batman vs Superman coming in 2015 yes?

Last year, when I didn't know any better, I actually assumed that Avengers would get a "Transformers 1" style reception, with a whole "cheesy alien invasion story with CGI overload every second made for juvenile entertainment". Boy was I wrong. Let's say that actually happened or heaven forbid, a Batman & Robin reception. Joss Whedon would be shunned like Michael Bay and Joel Schumacher among the geek community, Critics would point their fingers and laugh and dismiss the movie, and as someone said, actors might not stick around more. Christopher Nolan would be trollfacing everyone with TDKR and looking down on everyone and be like "Look at me with my Goddamn Batman trilogy!"

As for the future of Marvel movies, as someone said, 1 or 2 more Iron Man movies with cameos then reboot. As well as that, the only other Marvel movies which would still be going are Marc Webb's Amazing Spider-Man movies, and then there would be more X-Men movies as the dominant Marvel brand that some people would be tired of.

As for other movies, outside of Marvel & DC, I theorize that with the success of the Avengers showing how well Disney handles another franchise, it led to George Lucas handing over the rights to Star Wars to Lucasfilm. In other words, what I'm saying is(prove me wrong if you can, but this is my hunch on this), I think George Lucas watched the Avengers and saw the overnight fame it got and reminisced about the summer of 1977 with Star Wars. From this, I think Star Wars VII would never be greenlit. If anyone can debunk this postulation, go for it, this is what I think.

As for the future far ahead, 2015 would become just another year.

I think I covered all the bases yes?

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Old 09-19-2013, 07:54 PM   #8
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Default Re: What would have happened if Avengers failed?

The genre would basically be dead. TDKR would be the last ultra-successful film in the genre for years and it would be regarded as the end of an era, similar to The Wild Bunch with the western.

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Old 09-19-2013, 08:53 PM   #9
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Default Re: What would have happened if Avengers failed?

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Let's not forget Man of Steel was still filming when this was going on. So Man of Steel would've still been released, and it would have gotten the same reception it did as well as the same earnings it got from the box office domestically and internationally, but nevertheless the DC Cinematic Universe might still get the go-ahead albeit at a MUCH slower pace? We probably would not have seen Batman vs Superman coming in 2015 yes?
I think Avengers helped MoS do as well as it did actually. People started seeing MoS as DC's response to Marvel's MCU and everyone was high on CBM's after Avengers. I think if Avengers had failed MoS would have done much less. Like Feige says, they only help each other when one of them makes a good movie.

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Old 09-19-2013, 10:58 PM   #10
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Singer shows no interest in returning to X-Men, so Vaughn gets his sequel, and it's just basically XMFC2, with no aspirations for any expansion of the cinematic universe beyond that.
what? Singer came up the story for First Class and was supposed to direct it.

And Matthew Vaughn was supposed to direct FC2 until he bailed himself out.

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Old 09-19-2013, 11:31 PM   #11
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Default Re: What would have happened if Avengers failed?

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I think Avengers helped MoS do as well as it did actually. People started seeing MoS as DC's response to Marvel's MCU and everyone was high on CBM's after Avengers. I think if Avengers had failed MoS would have done much less. Like Feige says, they only help each other when one of them makes a good movie.
I wouldn't know about that, but the people in some wacky alternate universe where Avengers sucking happened would probably answer that better. I think more people were high on Marvel's movies not so much as everyone else's.

From what I think, the name recognition Superman carries as well as the attachment of Christopher Nolan and his name recognition would help the film make some money back as well as help in marketing and advertising and would help create some interest.

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The genre would basically be dead. TDKR would be the last ultra-successful film in the genre for years and it would be regarded as the end of an era, similar to The Wild Bunch with the western.
Yes definately. I think Christopher Nolan would be only person left in the world we could possibly trust with a comic book franchise then.

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Old 09-20-2013, 04:25 AM   #12
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Default Re: What would have happened if Avengers failed?

I am super thankful then that Avengers was as successful as it was, because all the scenarios sketched out above seem far less... Optimal, than what we have going on in the current climate of CBMs. No offense to Mr. Nolan, but after TDKR I was more than happy to see him move on to other projects, other NON CBM projects, thank you.

I would love to hear what the complaints from the Alt U. where their version of Avengers was box office poison. What would the complaints sound like? Let me give a go at it...

"Avengers? It's problem was it was too self serious. I mean, you would think they were making a 2 an a 1/2 hour movie about D-Day or something."

"Why did they just spring this concept on audiences with no build up? Have some cross over between franchises. People were not aware these characters were like pieces of a puzzle that fit together. They were not prepared for this idea. Maybe if some parts of one film led into the next?"

"How can you have a cast like they assembled and not have them play to their strengths? To no have RDJ throwing out zingers every chance he gets in a film like this is almost criminal. Sure, maybe you run the risk of making light of the stories drama a little, but at least it would make that journey to the 40min. finale breezy and easy to take."

"It looked like a tv movie." (This is the one complaint that is steady across ALL universes and it baffles those that disagree with it equally across the multiverse. What does it actually mean outside of the wannabe film maker circles it's bandied about in? Is it about some specific technical matter that the GA is just not sensitive to? Is it a slight on Whedon's background? Because I can tell you what I mean when I say "X-MEN and SPIDER-MAN felt very TV movie to me." It means that they felt rushed, had lackluster VFX/Production designs, they had tones of limited scope and of course both have criminally undercooked final acts.) None of those things can honestly be applied to Avengers.

I'd say we lucked out on the specific universe we currently exist in.

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Old 09-20-2013, 04:44 AM   #13
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Default Re: What would have happened if Avengers failed?

Day one. The avengers bomb.

Day two. The apocalypse

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Old 09-20-2013, 04:50 AM   #14
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Default Re: What would have happened if Avengers failed?

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Day one. The avengers bomb.

Day two. The apocalypse

No. That's if THE DARK KNIGHT had failed. Remember, all life in the universe was created when the Nolan brothers completed the first draft for TDK.

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Old 09-20-2013, 05:40 AM   #15
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Default Re: What would have happened if Avengers failed?

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Day one. The avengers bomb.

Day two. The apocalypse
Considering that 2012 was the year of the apocalypse, maybe in the "Darkest Timeline", the Mayans were right.

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Old 09-20-2013, 07:37 AM   #16
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Default Re: What would have happened if Avengers failed?

The failure of the Avengers movie would have had an impact on most major studios:

Disney/Marvel - The blame for the disappointing box office would have fallen directly upon the alien protagonists. The beautiful, mythological aliens from Thor would have been spared, but the Chituari, the Other and Thanos, along with the Battle of New York would be ignored in future MCU films. The company would have looked to its street level heroes, with a series of Marvel Knights films taking the place of more expensive alien based films such as GOTG and the rumored Inhumans film.

FOX - With no need to keep up with the Joneses, the less costly XMFC 2 replaces DOFP on the FOX production schedule.

Sony - With the softened demand in superhero films, the studio takes a less aggressive stance with it's ASM series. Two sequels are planned (rather than three) with the films being released every three years (as opposed to every two).

Warner/DC - Warner is pleased with its box office take from MOS, and schedules a sequel for 2016. Batman continues his post TDKR retirement, and a future Justice League film goes from "maybe, someday" to "never going to happen".

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Old 09-20-2013, 08:22 AM   #17
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Default Re: What would have happened if Avengers failed?

The MCU would have half of whats in development.

The Spider-Man & X-Men franchises would've continued on as always.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahran Ramsus View Post
The genre would basically be dead. TDKR would be the last ultra-successful film in the genre for years and it would be regarded as the end of an era, similar to The Wild Bunch with the western.
The genre has been going steady or 15 years and has survived movie flops and bombs. It would endure, wouldn't make billions but since that isn't a mark of quality and the genre endured before the billion mark was hit, it wouldn't matter.

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what? Singer came up the story for First Class and was supposed to direct it.

And Matthew Vaughn was supposed to direct FC2 until he bailed himself out.
DOFP looks to be the agenda set out by Vaughn, Singer & Fox, with no outside factors.

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Old 09-20-2013, 08:33 AM   #18
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Default Re: What would have happened if Avengers failed?

It would have changed a lot. GotG wouldn't have been greenlit, AoS would never exist, Sony and Fox would have continued to produce ambitionless movies instead of rethinking their strategies, a World's Finest movie would never happen but at least Batfleck would never happen either

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Old 09-20-2013, 12:09 PM   #19
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Default Re: What would have happened if Avengers failed?

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The failure of the Avengers movie would have had an impact on most major studios:

Disney/Marvel - The blame for the disappointing box office would have fallen directly upon the alien protagonists. The beautiful, mythological aliens from Thor would have been spared, but the Chituari, the Other and Thanos, along with the Battle of New York would be ignored in future MCU films. The company would have looked to its street level heroes, with a series of Marvel Knights films taking the place of more expensive alien based films such as GOTG and the rumored Inhumans film.

FOX - With no need to keep up with the Joneses, the less costly XMFC 2 replaces DOFP on the FOX production schedule.

Sony - With the softened demand in superhero films, the studio takes a less aggressive stance with it's ASM series. Two sequels are planned (rather than three) with the films being released every three years (as opposed to every two).

Warner/DC - Warner is pleased with its box office take from MOS, and schedules a sequel for 2016. Batman continues his post TDKR retirement, and a future Justice League film goes from "maybe, someday" to "never going to happen".
Pretty much this.

Only changes I would say is that the MCU would then become, basically, the Iron Man Universe, with perhaps some Avengers as supporting cast. Thor might get a sequel. Captain America would not.

And the Justice League is kinda ASAP right now, it would go from that to Maybe someday...

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Old 09-20-2013, 03:06 PM   #20
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Nah. If Avengers flopped, WB would push JLA back to "basically never." They aren't going to me-too a total failure.

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Old 09-20-2013, 05:36 PM   #21
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Default Re: What would have happened if Avengers failed?

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The failure of the Avengers movie would have had an impact on most major studios:

Disney/Marvel - The blame for the disappointing box office would have fallen directly upon the alien protagonists. The beautiful, mythological aliens from Thor would have been spared, but the Chituari, the Other and Thanos, along with the Battle of New York would be ignored in future MCU films. The company would have looked to its street level heroes, with a series of Marvel Knights films taking the place of more expensive alien based films such as GOTG and the rumored Inhumans film.

FOX - With no need to keep up with the Joneses, the less costly XMFC 2 replaces DOFP on the FOX production schedule.

Sony - With the softened demand in superhero films, the studio takes a less aggressive stance with it's ASM series. Two sequels are planned (rather than three) with the films being released every three years (as opposed to every two).

Warner/DC - Warner is pleased with its box office take from MOS, and schedules a sequel for 2016. Batman continues his post TDKR retirement, and a future Justice League film goes from "maybe, someday" to "never going to happen".
This seems pretty accurate. Marvel probably wouldn't be taking as many chances with Phase 2 as they seem to be, especially with IM3 (that is, the tone and content would've been played safer, a la IM2) and GOTG.

Thank god Feige had the foresight and care to hire Whedon. It could've all went to hell so easily with a lesser writer/director.

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Old 09-20-2013, 05:46 PM   #22
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I think they would have cranked out one or two more Iron Man movies that would feature some face-saving, fan appeasing, cameos from Avengers.

But ultimately, once RDJ became too old they'd replace him with Colin Farrell or whatever, people would stop going to see them... and that, as they say, would be that.
That's probably it in a nutshell.

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Old 09-21-2013, 12:19 PM   #23
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Default Re: What would have happened if Avengers failed?

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Originally Posted by Zarex View Post
The failure of the Avengers movie would have had an impact on most major studios:

Disney/Marvel - The blame for the disappointing box office would have fallen directly upon the alien protagonists. The beautiful, mythological aliens from Thor would have been spared, but the Chituari, the Other and Thanos, along with the Battle of New York would be ignored in future MCU films. The company would have looked to its street level heroes, with a series of Marvel Knights films taking the place of more expensive alien based films such as GOTG and the rumored Inhumans film.

FOX - With no need to keep up with the Joneses, the less costly XMFC 2 replaces DOFP on the FOX production schedule.

Sony - With the softened demand in superhero films, the studio takes a less aggressive stance with it's ASM series. Two sequels are planned (rather than three) with the films being released every three years (as opposed to every two).

Warner/DC - Warner is pleased with its box office take from MOS, and schedules a sequel for 2016. Batman continues his post TDKR retirement, and a future Justice League film goes from "maybe, someday" to "never going to happen".


Wholeheartedly agree. Every few years, since about '98, one or two CBMs shake things up and catapult the genre into greater heights. It happened with Blade, X-Men, Spider-Man, TDK, and now Avengers, and I'd say that the success and fanfare surrounding Avengers has arguably created the biggest leap. The effects, which you've essentially described, can be seen throughout every studio involved in the genre.

I think it's safe to say that all parties involved would at the very least be quite a bit more apprehensive about newer films, let alone tie-ins and franchises. It's almost as if everyone else was was waiting for the outcome to see if they could open the floodgates or keep them sealed for another day.

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Old 09-21-2013, 02:37 PM   #24
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Default Re: What would have happened if Avengers failed?

This thread makes me appreciate The Avengers for being the success it was. I loved the film, but none of the characters in The Avengers were anywhere near my favorite characters from Marvel, it was just great to be able to see superheroes teaming up like that. It really expanded the possibilities of comic book movies, we'd only be getting Batman and Superman movies from DC from now on

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Old 09-21-2013, 10:33 PM   #25
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Default Re: What would have happened if Avengers failed?

After reading some of these post I am so grateful that I am living in "The Avengers was awesome!" universe.

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