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Old 08-01-2013, 07:13 PM   #26
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Default Re: new Zack Snyder quote implies WB forced Batman/Superman movie instead of MOS2???

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I wish people would stop pretending that there's some magical world where integrity and creative impulse drives Hollywood's financial decisions.

Of course Snyder has to defer to the people who are shelling out hundreds of millions of dollars for the movie itself to be made, and who makes the decisions about such things to begin with. A director tends to be in the employment of the studio.

Putting Batman in a Superman doesn't say ANYTHING inherent about WB's "confidence" in either character, or a solo franchise, or any of that. It shows their desire to create a cohesive DC Universe on film in some fashion.
I couldn't agree with this anymore.

This is another case of people taking things WAYYY too seriously that people say in interviews.

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Old 08-01-2013, 07:24 PM   #27
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Default Re: new Zack Snyder quote implies WB forced Batman/Superman movie instead of MOS2???

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I'd like to bring more attention to this new quote from an unnamed source from the superman homepage claiming Snyder said the following,

A Superman Homepage source managed to speak to Zack Snyder yesterday, and put to him the concerns of some Superman fans, with Snyder remarking, "It's too early for me to discuss the film. However, regardless of how I feel about Superman, ultimately I have to go along with the direction that Warner Bros. thinks is best".

If this is true, then WOW!

I can't understand why he would say something like this.
It makes me feel really uncomfortable about the whole this.
It could also mean that the WB may also scrap the idea and just go with a solo Batman film. I don't think you should read into it to mean that he was forced to do anything.

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Old 08-01-2013, 07:53 PM   #28
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Default Re: new Zack Snyder quote implies WB forced Batman/Superman movie instead of MOS2???

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Yeah I agree, tbh though two films would have done me. I think most if us Superman fans wanted a sequel with an established Superman, all the DP stuff etc one that wasn't tied to the origin.
Yeah. I'd be fine for ONE sequel, a World's finest, and a series of films afterward featuring Cavill's Superman. It doesn't have to be a trilogy. Comics are ongoing. It'd be a first for DC to have an ongoing cross-universe set of films.

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Old 08-01-2013, 08:31 PM   #29
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Default Re: new Zack Snyder quote implies WB forced Batman/Superman movie instead of MOS2???

It's the same thing at Marvel. fiege and co make the big decisions.

Do we really think it was Favreaus idea to put in all that Avengers stuff in IM2?

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Old 08-01-2013, 08:36 PM   #30
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Default Re: new Zack Snyder quote implies WB forced Batman/Superman movie instead of MOS2???

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It's the same thing at Marvel. fiege and co make the big decisions.

Do we really think it was Favreaus idea to put in all that Avengers stuff in IM2?
Which is why I don't think IM2 was really his fault, and would like to see him do IM4, if there's another RDJ standalone movie.

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Old 08-01-2013, 08:47 PM   #31
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Default Re: new Zack Snyder quote implies WB forced Batman/Superman movie instead of MOS2???

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It's the same thing at Marvel. fiege and co make the big decisions.

Do we really think it was Favreaus idea to put in all that Avengers stuff in IM2?
Absolutely true. I even remember Favreau saying something to the effect of how he was jealous of Nolan because he had three years to operate between sequels and do a film in between while Favreau had to jump right back into it. Plus he didn't have the same creative control with Iron Man as Nolan was having with Batman.

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Old 08-01-2013, 08:47 PM   #32
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Default Re: new Zack Snyder quote implies WB forced Batman/Superman movie instead of MOS2???

Re-posting this:

See I don't know about this, as it's just speculation on our part. That last comment from him does imply that it's a studio mandated move, but it could be he was just directing the small fan backslash towards a faceless conglomerate. From everything we know about Zack Snyder; Batman is his favorite, huge Frank Miller fan, dream project is Batman film, plus his enthusiasm making the announcement. I'd say there was no doubt discussions as to what the future of MOS would be, and it wouldn't surprise me the least that Snyder/Goyer leaned on this.

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Old 08-01-2013, 08:48 PM   #33
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Default Re: new Zack Snyder quote implies WB forced Batman/Superman movie instead of MOS2???

Well Zack Snyder was already unworthy of rebooting Batman but the fact that he's being forced to do it makes me much more worried.

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Old 08-01-2013, 08:54 PM   #34
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Default Re: new Zack Snyder quote implies WB forced Batman/Superman movie instead of MOS2???

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Re-posting this:

See I don't know about this, as it's just speculation on our part. That last comment from him does imply that it's a studio mandated move, but it could be he was just directing the small fan backslash towards a faceless conglomerate. From everything we know about Zack Snyder; Batman is his favorite, huge Frank Miller fan, dream project is Batman film, plus his enthusiasm making the announcement. I'd say there was no doubt discussions as to what the future of MOS would be, and it wouldn't surprise me the least that Snyder/Goyer leaned on this.
True, but the contradicting and very confusing thing about this is that whenever Snyder has talked about superman, he's really only said good things and understands the importance of the character. I think I've only seen him saying things like Superman being the granddaddy of them all and how he wanted to establish superman to be the one at the front of the Justice League.

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Old 08-01-2013, 08:58 PM   #35
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Default Re: new Zack Snyder quote implies WB forced Batman/Superman movie instead of MOS2???

I'm not worried about his Batman. I personally feel like he'll make a BETTER characterized Batman, but with much worse movies to back it up.

People act as if Bale's Bruce in the costume is an iconic performance in the likes of Reeve, Jackman, and RDJ. And I'll readily admit he did a very expressive and intense job in the role he was given.

But if one were to cut and paste Nolan's Batman character into a different story, it would feel off. We'd be complaining that Batman's detective ability was pushed to the backseat, that his fighting moves aren't that great, and that he was a rageaholic rather than the emotionally reserved character shown in comics and animation.

I feel like Snyder's gonna give us the most satisfying Batman, if he can resist the urge to give him the spastic qualities from Frank Miller's recent work.

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Old 08-01-2013, 08:59 PM   #36
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Default Re: new Zack Snyder quote implies WB forced Batman/Superman movie instead of MOS2???

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Originally Posted by FeedOnATreeFrog View Post
It's the same thing at Marvel. fiege and co make the big decisions.

Do we really think it was Favreaus idea to put in all that Avengers stuff in IM2?
Favreau was clearly annoyed at the studios input. He pretty much explicitly states as such on the IM2 bluray behind the scenes feature.

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Old 08-01-2013, 08:59 PM   #37
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Default Re: new Zack Snyder quote implies WB forced Batman/Superman movie instead of MOS2???

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True, but the contradicting and very confusing thing about this is that whenever Snyder has talked about superman, he's really only said good things and understands the importance of the character. I think I've only seen him saying things like Superman being the granddaddy of them all and how he wanted to establish superman to be the one at the front of the Justice League.
It is strange how around the release of MOS, when Snyder was asked in interviews about introducing Batman or JL, he would go on about how he feels they still need to get Superman's house in order first. But surely Batman/Superman would have already been happening then. Unless WB is really off the rails and making this up as they go.

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Old 08-01-2013, 09:16 PM   #38
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Default Re: new Zack Snyder quote implies WB forced Batman/Superman movie instead of MOS2???

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It is strange how around the release of MOS, when Snyder was asked in interviews about introducing Batman or JL, he would go on about how he feels they still need to get Superman's house in order first. But surely Batman/Superman would have already been happening then. Unless WB is really off the rails and making this up as they go.
Honestly, the best case scenario here is that Batman's introduction is used to really help make Superman look better and that this film is more focused towards continuing his story.

And I know some, if not all, Batman fans will hate me for saying this, but Batman doesn't need to be the central or even main focus in this film. People know who he is in general and he'll have his own solo films to further expand on this take of the character.

Batman's introduction in this film should only serve two purposes, to help continue the story started by MOS and to overall introduce him so that we have a feel for the character by the time JL rolls around.

Batman and Lex should represent the two paranoid sides of humanity and responses to Superman's presence, with one serving on the better half (ala being Batman) while the other one being the more negative response to it.

Hell, if this is going to be a older Batman that's introduced here, I'd like to see a take where Batman's kind of lost his way during his long years of crimefighting and is getting close towards falling into his own abyss and that it's because of his encounter with Superman that helps him get his act back together.

At the end of the day, the person that needs this film the most is Superman guys, there's no question in my head about that.

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Old 08-01-2013, 09:28 PM   #39
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Default Re: new Zack Snyder quote implies WB forced Batman/Superman movie instead of MOS2???

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Originally Posted by Sabaoth View Post
I'd like to bring more attention to this new quote from an unnamed source from the superman homepage claiming Snyder said the following,

A Superman Homepage source managed to speak to Zack Snyder yesterday, and put to him the concerns of some Superman fans, with Snyder remarking, "It's too early for me to discuss the film. However, regardless of how I feel about Superman, ultimately I have to go along with the direction that Warner Bros. thinks is best".

If this is true, then WOW!

I can't understand why he would say something like this.
It makes me feel really uncomfortable about the whole this.
Summer 2015:
The Avengers 2
Star Wars VII
Pirates of the Caribbean 5
(more a global competitor nowadays than an American one, but still....

See the picture. Man of Steel was/is a hit, but not on the scale of the previous installments in all those franchises.

WB wants to stand out from the crowd and not get swallowed up by competition. This is their answer. I am not surprised at all.

In all honesty, while a WF movie makes sense to do before a JL film, MOS1 does not end in anyway with a set-up for a team-up movie. Clark Kent just walked through the doors of the Daily Planet for the first time for crying out loud!

I am sure that Snyder and Goyer, as flawed as some of their mistakes were in MOS, realized the next natural step was world building for Superman with team-ups of all sorts down the line.

Oh well.

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Old 08-01-2013, 09:34 PM   #40
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Default Re: new Zack Snyder quote implies WB forced Batman/Superman movie instead of MOS2???

Well it's not really fair to compare MOS to the previous installments of all of those films mentioned above because they all had several films and years to build off of.

If we were to base the box office earnings from all of their "starter/origin" films, then MOS would have a better footing against them since Iron Man 1, which was the start of the MCU only made about 585 million dollars, while Pirates 1 only made about 654 million, which is a number I think MOS can still reach up to by the end of its run.

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Old 08-01-2013, 09:52 PM   #41
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Default Re: new Zack Snyder quote implies WB forced Batman/Superman movie instead of MOS2???

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Putting Batman in a Superman doesn't say ANYTHING inherent about WB's "confidence" in either character, or a solo franchise, or any of that. It shows their desire to create a cohesive DC Universe on film in some fashion.
Doesn't matter, people are going to draw whatever conclusion they want from this direction. The higher the profile film, the more juicy an opportunity to make a point.

Just sucks that when (the) other studio does similar if not worse it's championed and celebrated to no end. I'm glad WB is giving the fans what they asked for a few weeks ago, even if they have to stuff it down their throats. Also glad it's a simple team up and not an event with nowhere to go but down or sideways after the fact.

Sadly all I'm interested in from the MCU at this point is another avengers. I'm spoiled.

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Old 08-01-2013, 10:04 PM   #42
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Default Re: new Zack Snyder quote implies WB forced Batman/Superman movie instead of MOS2???

Well it's out of Snyders hands but he doesn't have to do the film. There's nothing worse than someone who does a film who's heart isn't in it coz it usually shows in the final product.

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Old 08-01-2013, 10:07 PM   #43
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Default Re: new Zack Snyder quote implies WB forced Batman/Superman movie instead of MOS2???

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Well it's out of Snyders hands but he doesn't have to do the film. There's nothing worse than someone who does a film who's heart isn't in it coz it usually shows in the final product.
I like TDKR, but you can practically FEEL the moment in which Nolan said to himself "No more superhero movies."

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Old 08-01-2013, 10:14 PM   #44
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Default Re: new Zack Snyder quote implies WB forced Batman/Superman movie instead of MOS2???

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I like TDKR, but you can practically FEEL the moment in which Nolan said to himself "No more superhero movies."

Eh, I agree to an extent, to me it felt like Nolan was compelled to come back and finish it just to ensure no-one else could ruin what he started. It wasn't a phoned in piece of direction but at the same time I couldn't help but feel his heart wasn't 100% invested into the third film, maybe Heath Ledger had something to do with that I don't know.

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Old 08-01-2013, 10:26 PM   #45
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Default Re: new Zack Snyder quote implies WB forced Batman/Superman movie instead of MOS2???

I'd say there's a less than 1% chance this is a real quote.

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Old 08-01-2013, 10:32 PM   #46
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Default Re: new Zack Snyder quote implies WB forced Batman/Superman movie instead of MOS2???

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Eh, I agree to an extent, to me it felt like Nolan was compelled to come back and finish it just to ensure no-one else could ruin what he started. It wasn't a phoned in piece of direction but at the same time I couldn't help but feel his heart wasn't 100% invested into the third film, maybe Heath Ledger had something to do with that I don't know.
TDKR was a lose-lose-lose situation. Either he allows for an open-ending that potentially undermines his legacy and has WB clamoring to have him direct the sequel, allows someone else to handle Batman 3, or he betrays the spirit of comics by having a close-ending that's out of character.

TBH, only fans are affected by that third option.

That's why I'm soft on TDKR. It wasn't an easy film to make, and yet TDK practically begged for a sequel near the ending. How do you follow that up properly?

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Old 08-01-2013, 10:32 PM   #47
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Default Re: new Zack Snyder quote implies WB forced Batman/Superman movie instead of MOS2???

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Eh, I agree to an extent, to me it felt like Nolan was compelled to come back and finish it just to ensure no-one else could ruin what he started. It wasn't a phoned in piece of direction but at the same time I couldn't help but feel his heart wasn't 100% invested into the third film, maybe Heath Ledger had something to do with that I don't know.
Yeah this I agree with. It didn't feel like someone who was half assed with what they were doing but it was certainly... un-Nolany. Big logic gaps, very hammy dialogue, poor editing/continuity, weird pacing...

It was a beautiful story just not brought to its potential. Something that Nolan is usually fantastic at.

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Old 08-01-2013, 10:34 PM   #48
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Default Re: new Zack Snyder quote implies WB forced Batman/Superman movie instead of MOS2???

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Honestly, the best case scenario here is that Batman's introduction is used to really help make Superman look better and that this film is more focused towards continuing his story.

And I know some, if not all, Batman fans will hate me for saying this, but Batman doesn't need to be the central or even main focus in this film. People know who he is in general and he'll have his own solo films to further expand on this take of the character.

Batman's introduction in this film should only serve two purposes, to help continue the story started by MOS and to overall introduce him so that we have a feel for the character by the time JL rolls around.

Batman and Lex should represent the two paranoid sides of humanity and responses to Superman's presence, with one serving on the better half (ala being Batman) while the other one being the more negative response to it.

Hell, if this is going to be a older Batman that's introduced here, I'd like to see a take where Batman's kind of lost his way during his long years of crimefighting and is getting close towards falling into his own abyss and that it's because of his encounter with Superman that helps him get his act back together.

At the end of the day, the person that needs this film the most is Superman guys, there's no question in my head about that.
Awesome post.

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Old 08-01-2013, 10:41 PM   #49
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Default Re: new Zack Snyder quote implies WB forced Batman/Superman movie instead of MOS2???

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Honestly, the best case scenario here is that Batman's introduction is used to really help make Superman look better and that this film is more focused towards continuing his story.

And I know some, if not all, Batman fans will hate me for saying this, but Batman doesn't need to be the central or even main focus in this film. People know who he is in general and he'll have his own solo films to further expand on this take of the character.

Batman's introduction in this film should only serve two purposes, to help continue the story started by MOS and to overall introduce him so that we have a feel for the character by the time JL rolls around.

Batman and Lex should represent the two paranoid sides of humanity and responses to Superman's presence, with one serving on the better half (ala being Batman) while the other one being the more negative response to it.

Hell, if this is going to be a older Batman that's introduced here, I'd like to see a take where Batman's kind of lost his way during his long years of crimefighting and is getting close towards falling into his own abyss and that it's because of his encounter with Superman that helps him get his act back together.

At the end of the day, the person that needs this film the most is Superman guys, there's no question in my head about that.
Right on. Post and repost until WB sees what a mistake diving into WF is.

" People know who he is in general and he'll have his own solo films to further expand on this take of the character."

THIS is why Batman can AFFORD to be a minor character in MOS2. Tease Batman in MOS2, and audiences will want to see more Batman later on.

Batman can be fleshed out in sequels and solo movies. But Lois, the Daily Planet, and the character of Superman NEED to be expanded upon immediately.

But usurp Superman's narrative for Batman, and we'll have a compromised film for a character the audience thinks it knows.

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Old 08-01-2013, 10:42 PM   #50
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Default Re: new Zack Snyder quote implies WB forced Batman/Superman movie instead of MOS2???

People are forgetting that there's also gonna have to be a subplot that involves Bruce fighting Clark over Lois. It's not like they're gonna be able just create a new female love interest for Batman out of nowhere so the next logical decision is that he develops a thing for Lois.

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