The SuperHeroHype Forums  

Go Back   The SuperHeroHype Forums > Spider-Man > The Comics

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-21-2013, 06:34 PM   #76
Spider-Gnome
The Arach-Gnome
 
Spider-Gnome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,388
Default Re: The SUPERIOR Spider-Man - Part 2

Ah, I like Norah (like the only character that came out of BND I did like) and the attitude. And yeah, Spidey's dialogue is melodramatic, but, hey, it's Ock. But, I think Ramos did a great job. I like the detail, particularly the shot of the entire Daily Bugle news staff. And I think he's curbing the anatomy breaking stuff.

__________________
... and get off my lawn!!!



The Spectacular Spider-Man:
The BEST adaptation of the Spider-Man comics in any form
Spider-Gnome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2013, 06:42 PM   #77
JJJ's Ulcer
Old, cigar chompin' grump
 
JJJ's Ulcer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The pit of J Jonah Jameson's stomach.
Posts: 8,408
Default Re: The SUPERIOR Spider-Man - Part 2

I like Norah too and I understand her personality, it just seemed too much concerning the context of the scene. *shrug* I guess it wasn't a bad issue. Like I said I just think dialogue isn't Slott's strongest suit. I guess I really noticed the difference when Yost was scripting the recent raft arc.

Ramos has improved, but I probably will never completely warm to him. His Spidey is good, but his faces.... oye. Him and Steve Skroce from the 90's have to be my least favorite Spidey artists of all time.

JJJ's Ulcer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2013, 06:53 PM   #78
JewishHobbit
The Hebrew Halfling
 
JewishHobbit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Eastern Time Zone
Posts: 25,115
Default Re: The SUPERIOR Spider-Man - Part 2

I was at Half Priced Books the other day and found one of those "The Best of Spider-Man" oversized hardcovers that collected Straczynski's run plus extras. I looked through it and got to the Green Goblin arc from Jenkins and Ramos. Wow, I forgot how ugly his work used to be. The story was terrific, but that art... *shudder*

__________________
Follow my writing career at:

BRADFORDCOMBS.TK
and
AUTHORBRADFORDCOMBS.BLOGSPOT.COM
JewishHobbit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2013, 07:08 PM   #79
JJJ's Ulcer
Old, cigar chompin' grump
 
JJJ's Ulcer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The pit of J Jonah Jameson's stomach.
Posts: 8,408
Default Re: The SUPERIOR Spider-Man - Part 2

He really ruined Jenkins' best written Spider-Man arc. If Buckingham or another competent artist had been given that arc, it would have been a classic we'd talk about today. Instead all we remember is just how terrible and incomprehensible the art was. Shame.

JJJ's Ulcer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2013, 08:06 PM   #80
JewishHobbit
The Hebrew Halfling
 
JewishHobbit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Eastern Time Zone
Posts: 25,115
Default Re: The SUPERIOR Spider-Man - Part 2

Ramos ruined Venom

__________________
Follow my writing career at:

BRADFORDCOMBS.TK
and
AUTHORBRADFORDCOMBS.BLOGSPOT.COM
JewishHobbit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2013, 08:07 PM   #81
Themanofbat
Never Mind the Buttocks...
 
Themanofbat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: With your Mom in Moncton, NB, Canada
Posts: 39,146
Default Re: The SUPERIOR Spider-Man - Part 2

I think Norah's beer comment was more of a reflection (or relief) that "concerns" she had in regards to Phil had been revealed rather than she shockingly finds out that her boyfriend is a murderous villain.

Solid issue.


__________________
Alea Jacta Est

Read The Amazing Spider-Man...100% pure Spider-Man Goodness...

"It's disturbing when young people believe right-wing political hype. It's like rock n' roll never happened."

Play Spider-Man Trivia here...
Themanofbat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 04:27 PM   #82
Spider-Gnome
The Arach-Gnome
 
Spider-Gnome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,388
Default Re: The SUPERIOR Spider-Man - Part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by JJJ's Ulcer View Post
He really ruined Jenkins' best written Spider-Man arc. If Buckingham or another competent artist had been given that arc, it would have been a classic we'd talk about today. Instead all we remember is just how terrible and incomprehensible the art was. Shame.
Sorry, strongly disagree. I think Ramos' art style ADDED to Jenkins' story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JewishHobbit View Post
Ramos ruined Venom
Venom was ruined looong before Ramos.

__________________
... and get off my lawn!!!



The Spectacular Spider-Man:
The BEST adaptation of the Spider-Man comics in any form
Spider-Gnome is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 04:39 PM   #83
THUNDERSTRIKE
HYPNOTIC PSYCHOTIC
 
THUNDERSTRIKE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: In YOUR mind... You.WILL.OBEY!
Posts: 2,728
Default Re: The SUPERIOR Spider-Man - Part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spider-Gnome View Post
Sorry, strongly disagree. I think Ramos' art style ADDED to Jenkins' story.

I'm not nor have I ever been a Ramos fan, but I always thought that I was the only one now who thinks that Ramos' work back THEN was a whole lot better than it is NOW...

and what's even funnier is that I didn't even like it back THEN...

I just think his work on his first run, despite the flaws, was more palatable than his current run of glaring and obvious flaws in his work...

to ME anyway...

__________________
ALWAYS RISING ABOVE AND BEYOND TO SURPASS THE PATHETIC CAPABILITIES AND LIMITED COMPREHENSION THAT WEAK-WILLED AND SIMPLE-MINDED INDIVIDUALS HOLD THEMSELVES TO... SUPERO OMNIA.

DON'T KID YOURSELF... NO MATTER HOW HARD YOU TRY, YOU'LL NEVER BE ABLE TO.

QUANDO PODECES TE REGI EORUM FECERUNT?


THUNDERSTRIKE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 07:52 PM   #84
Spider‑Man
Banned User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 53
Default Re: The SUPERIOR Spider-Man - Part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Infernal View Post
I don't buy it myself. While I think that scene was ok in setting up the basic premise on why they might lay off him for a bit and give him the benefit of the doubt. I think the characterisation was off. To me it's like they were acting as though they had only just met the guy the other week.

We've had years worth of stories with Spider-man not only as an Avenger but with many other hero team ups as well. The 'ah ok then' and 'not much I can do about it' attitude of the other heroes comes off as a bit hokey considering the amount of time they're meant to have known one another for. I'm not saying Spider-man is the best of friends with them, but they've been around one another too long for me to buy that scene.
That's because writers today aren't concerned with what has been established, continuity, etc. ALL they care about is the story they want to tell. Anyone read superior foes with the 'cowardly' shocker? Where the hell'd that characterization come from?

Spider‑Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-22-2013, 08:05 PM   #85
Scarecrow_King
King of Swinging Moods
 
Scarecrow_King's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The Point of Diminishing Returns
Posts: 4,848
Default Re: The SUPERIOR Spider-Man - Part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spider‑Man View Post
That's because writers today aren't concerned with what has been established, continuity, etc. ALL they care about is the story they want to tell. Anyone read superior foes with the 'cowardly' shocker? Where the hell'd that characterization come from?
Maybe it came from years of getting the **** kicked out of him by Spider-Man and constantly being a second-rate villain?

People always complain about new "out of nowhere" characterizations when they just don't understand character progression. You can't write characters the exact same way for 50 years.

__________________
Well, it's been a shattering disillusionment. Goodnight.
Scarecrow_King is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2013, 12:04 AM   #86
Donald Thomas
The Black ArachKnight
 
Donald Thomas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Big Island of Hawaii
Posts: 4,293
Default Re: The SUPERIOR Spider-Man - Part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spider‑Man View Post
That's because writers today aren't concerned with what has been established, continuity, etc. ALL they care about is the story they want to tell. Anyone read superior foes with the 'cowardly' shocker? Where the hell'd that characterization come from?



Aloha,
I asked that same question when the book first came out. I can deal with progression of a character but I was looking for a specific issue where Shocker kind of gets PTSD.I'm still looking.
Spidey rules

Donald Thomas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2013, 12:19 AM   #87
Shockdingo
Cap America luvin' Canuck
 
Shockdingo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: With Deadpool & The unlimited
Posts: 3,496
Default Re: The SUPERIOR Spider-Man - Part 2

Didn't he even run with the Thunderbolts in a mind breaking time travel snafu that could have doomed the world as we know it?

Shockdingo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2013, 07:58 AM   #88
Themanofbat
Never Mind the Buttocks...
 
Themanofbat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: With your Mom in Moncton, NB, Canada
Posts: 39,146
Default Re: The SUPERIOR Spider-Man - Part 2

We've seen it happen with a few Spidey villains over the years... Doc Ock and the Scorpion come to mind...


__________________
Alea Jacta Est

Read The Amazing Spider-Man...100% pure Spider-Man Goodness...

"It's disturbing when young people believe right-wing political hype. It's like rock n' roll never happened."

Play Spider-Man Trivia here...
Themanofbat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2013, 10:38 AM   #89
JewishHobbit
The Hebrew Halfling
 
JewishHobbit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Eastern Time Zone
Posts: 25,115
Default Re: The SUPERIOR Spider-Man - Part 2

Shocker was shaky back in the early 90s following the Scourge stuff but overcame it by the mid-90s/early-00s. Superior Foes of Spider-Man was a fun read, but the Shocker depiction turned me off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarecrow_King View Post
Maybe it came from years of getting the **** kicked out of him by Spider-Man and constantly being a second-rate villain?

People always complain about new "out of nowhere" characterizations when they just don't understand character progression. You can't write characters the exact same way for 50 years.
The thing about character progression is that you have to SHOW the character progression. Jumping from point B to point D skips the very important point C. With Shocker, yes, he's been beat up up a lot and could likely become cowardly, but we aren't shown that progression. They skipped a step, and that's A) sloppy storytelling, and B) out of character.

__________________
Follow my writing career at:

BRADFORDCOMBS.TK
and
AUTHORBRADFORDCOMBS.BLOGSPOT.COM
JewishHobbit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2013, 10:18 PM   #90
KaineMorrison
ben_reilly_s_s
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Selden, NY
Posts: 297
Default Re: The SUPERIOR Spider-Man - Part 2

Wasn't it Norah who helped get the name The Daily Bugle back?
Wasn't Norah a Part-Owner or something of the New Bugle?
How did she get fired if she's part owner?
Or am I mistaken and it's not her and was someone else...

Also, not sure if this was talked about or if it was even mentioned in the comics yet, but are Norah and Billy related...?

KaineMorrison is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2013, 11:22 PM   #91
Themanofbat
Never Mind the Buttocks...
 
Themanofbat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: With your Mom in Moncton, NB, Canada
Posts: 39,146
Default Re: The SUPERIOR Spider-Man - Part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by KaineMorrison View Post
Wasn't it Norah who helped get the name The Daily Bugle back?
Wasn't Norah a Part-Owner or something of the New Bugle?
How did she get fired if she's part owner?
Or am I mistaken and it's not her and was someone else...
That was Marla Jameson...


__________________
Alea Jacta Est

Read The Amazing Spider-Man...100% pure Spider-Man Goodness...

"It's disturbing when young people believe right-wing political hype. It's like rock n' roll never happened."

Play Spider-Man Trivia here...
Themanofbat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2013, 09:37 AM   #92
Spider‑Man
Banned User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 53
Default Re: The SUPERIOR Spider-Man - Part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarecrow_King View Post
Maybe it came from years of getting the **** kicked out of him by Spider-Man and constantly being a second-rate villain?

People always complain about new "out of nowhere" characterizations when they just don't understand character progression. You can't write characters the exact same way for 50 years.
'Progression' indicates smaller steps along a continuum from point A to point B, each step logically leading to the next that makes it understandable how one got from A to B where just going from A to B in one step makes no sense. This is essentially what they did with shocker. This apparently appeals to and is perfectly acceptable to the new generation of short-attention-span readers but it is absolutely NOT progression.

Spider‑Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2013, 12:30 PM   #93
KaineMorrison
ben_reilly_s_s
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Selden, NY
Posts: 297
Default Re: The SUPERIOR Spider-Man - Part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Themanofbat View Post
That was Marla Jameson...

So who was the reporter that was, along with Ben Urich being secretly funded by JJJ?

KaineMorrison is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2013, 12:41 PM   #94
JJJ's Ulcer
Old, cigar chompin' grump
 
JJJ's Ulcer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The pit of J Jonah Jameson's stomach.
Posts: 8,408
Default Re: The SUPERIOR Spider-Man - Part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spider‑Man View Post
'Progression' indicates smaller steps along a continuum from point A to point B, each step logically leading to the next that makes it understandable how one got from A to B where just going from A to B in one step makes no sense. This is essentially what they did with shocker. This apparently appeals to and is perfectly acceptable to the new generation of short-attention-span readers but it is absolutely NOT progression.
I actually think it's more a case of short-attention span (or indifferent) writers than it is readers. Let's just pretend it was someone else in the Shocker costume and move on.

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawyer View Post
Oh, JJJ........... sometimes you make me wonder why I haven't killed you yet. :eek:
JJJ's Ulcer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2013, 12:37 PM   #95
Spider‑Man
Banned User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 53
Default Re: The SUPERIOR Spider-Man - Part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by JJJ's Ulcer View Post
I actually think it's more a case of short-attention span (or indifferent) writers than it is readers. Let's just pretend it was someone else in the Shocker costume and move on.
Well that's essentially what I said in my first post but I don't think the two are mutually exclusive - I think it takes the latter not to mind the former.

Oddly enough, my first thought after seeing the shocker's Mis-characterization was 'did someone replace Herman Schultz? When did that happen?!'

Spider‑Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2013, 02:12 PM   #96
Mr. Dent
 
Mr. Dent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 8,332
Default Re: The SUPERIOR Spider-Man - Part 2

Has Slott ever talked about how many issues he plans to go with Superior?

__________________
Marvel/DC:
2014 - Captain America: The Winter Soldier | The Amazing Spider-Man 2 | X-Men: Days of Future Past | Guardians of the Galaxy
2015 - Avengers: Age of Ultron | The Fantastic Four | Ant-Man
2016 - Captain America 3 | Batman vs. Superman | X-Men: Apocalypse | The Amazing Spider-Man 3 | Doctor Strange
TV - Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. | Agent Carter | Daredevil | Luke Cage | Iron Fist | Jessica Jones | The Defenders
TV - Arrow | The Flash | Gotham | Constantine | iZOMBIE
Mr. Dent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2013, 06:24 AM   #97
JewishHobbit
The Hebrew Halfling
 
JewishHobbit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Eastern Time Zone
Posts: 25,115
Default Re: The SUPERIOR Spider-Man - Part 2

Until it's been run so far into the ground that it's regarded as the new Clone Saga?

__________________
Follow my writing career at:

BRADFORDCOMBS.TK
and
AUTHORBRADFORDCOMBS.BLOGSPOT.COM
JewishHobbit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2013, 10:08 AM   #98
The Infernal
Life's End Boss
 
The Infernal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Scotland
Posts: 6,422
Default Re: The SUPERIOR Spider-Man - Part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spider‑Man View Post
That's because writers today aren't concerned with what has been established, continuity, etc. ALL they care about is the story they want to tell. Anyone read superior foes with the 'cowardly' shocker? Where the hell'd that characterization come from?
I've no idea. It seems some can easily change the characterisation of some characters to suit their story I guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarecrow_King View Post
Maybe it came from years of getting the **** kicked out of him by Spider-Man and constantly being a second-rate villain?

People always complain about new "out of nowhere" characterizations when they just don't understand character progression. You can't write characters the exact same way for 50 years.
People understand character progression. You're just making excuses for a sudden change of character.

__________________
Lady Luck is smiling at me. She knows something I don't.

My worst fear: When I die all I see is a sign saying 'level 2'. Which means I have to live all of this all over again. Only on a higher difficulty setting.
The Infernal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2013, 10:39 AM   #99
Themanofbat
Never Mind the Buttocks...
 
Themanofbat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: With your Mom in Moncton, NB, Canada
Posts: 39,146
Default Re: The SUPERIOR Spider-Man - Part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by JewishHobbit View Post
Until it's been run so far into the ground that it's regarded as the new Clone Saga?
Nope... unlike the Clone Saga, which felt like no one knew what direction they wanted in the books with all the back'n forths, this story is reading very much like it has a beginning, middle and end. So even if this goes beyond 2 years, so far, it's reading very well... unlike all the frustrations and obvious indecisions brought forth by Marvel during the Clone Saga.


__________________
Alea Jacta Est

Read The Amazing Spider-Man...100% pure Spider-Man Goodness...

"It's disturbing when young people believe right-wing political hype. It's like rock n' roll never happened."

Play Spider-Man Trivia here...
Themanofbat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2013, 10:52 AM   #100
Themanofbat
Never Mind the Buttocks...
 
Themanofbat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: With your Mom in Moncton, NB, Canada
Posts: 39,146
Default Re: The SUPERIOR Spider-Man - Part 2

FYI... in the Shocker's early appearances, he had shown some insecurities that he managed to overcome later in his career... so mid-life crisis maybe? In recent events, he had been poisoned and survived a bombing by the Punisher & turned into a Spider during Spider-Island... I can see how that might get into someone's head...


__________________
Alea Jacta Est

Read The Amazing Spider-Man...100% pure Spider-Man Goodness...

"It's disturbing when young people believe right-wing political hype. It's like rock n' roll never happened."

Play Spider-Man Trivia here...
Themanofbat is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:30 PM.

monitoring_string = "dee460792f24517621e3ca080805de7e"
Contact Us - Mobile - SuperHeroHype - ComingSoon.net - Shock Till You Drop - Lost Password - Clear Cookies - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Top - AdChoices


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SuperHeroHype.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.