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Old 10-27-2013, 04:36 PM   #801
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - Part 7

Can be King of an Asian nation.
Changing Johny skin is stupid politic move, yes this change his origin. He's now adopted.

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Old 10-27-2013, 04:37 PM   #802
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - Part 7

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Yeah it really does seem pointless. I'm pretty sure they're not casting black actors just because they're perfect for the role. If that was the case, i'd be fine with it. But it really just looks like they're doing it for diversity, not because of talent, and i think that's pointless.

i'll deal with it, but I like it when my favorite comic book characters look the way they do in the comics. Is that racist?
Why ask?

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Old 10-27-2013, 04:45 PM   #803
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - Part 7

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Can be King of an Asian nation.
Changing Johny skin is stupid politic move, yes this change his origin. He's now adopted.
If sue is black too then it doesn't change eithers status in the storm family.

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That is your opinion, to others the visuals of the comics are important as well, and a major change to those may be a problem for them. If there is a solid reason for changing, then cool...I haven't heard that reason yet, and this young actor may be a fine young actor and do a good job, if he does...great. I can name many others as well that can do a great job and they are close to the visual AND character Johnny. It is simply all in your opinion of the character and what is important. Some believe that the visual as well as character is important, you do not....simply a difference of opinion.
For some i've noticed, not just here, but overall that the visuals make up 80% of their like or dislike of an adapted character and 20% for their concern is the actual characterisation.

People to this day still hold height against Hugh Jackmans Wolverine.

I don't believe there is any real reason to change a characters race, they can find people that look just like the characters and hire them, but in many cases they hire colourblind to chooseactors based on their talent and ability to best represent the characters character.

Diversity imo isn't a dirty word, i personally would like the movies to generally be more multi-cultural as it better represent modern society. The source material is from the 60s but the movies are from the 2000s.

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Old 10-27-2013, 04:54 PM   #804
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - Part 7

But aside from the height issue, Hugh looks a lot like the comics.

Visuals SHOULD be an important issue when casting a comic book character, they're adapting a VISUAL MEDIUM. Obviously, the appearance should factor in, instead of ignoring it for the sake of diversity.

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Old 10-27-2013, 04:55 PM   #805
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - Part 7

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If sue is black too then it doesn't change eithers status in the storm family.



For some i've noticed, not just here, but overall that the visuals make up 80% of their like or dislike of an adapted character and 20% for their concern is the actual characterisation.

People to this day still hold height against Hugh Jackmans Wolverine.

I don't believe there is any real reason to change a characters race, they can find people that look just like the characters and hire them, but in many cases they hire colourblind to who they feel will represent the characters character.

Diversity imo isn't a dirty word.
I say that Black Panther should be an adopted asian guy, that doesn't really change his status in his family either.

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Old 10-27-2013, 09:33 PM   #806
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - Part 7

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Thats changing the characters history and nationality (King off an African nation) and role (ruling and defending that nation). Changing Johnnys skin doesn't change his role or his origin, he'll still be American, part of the F4 and have his flame powers. Just like how Changing Heimdallls skin didn't change his character.

It's a superficial change that effects notthing about his character
If Black Panther's origin is a black African man who grew up to be king of an African nation then Johnny is a white American man who grew up to be a member of FF. See?

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Old 10-27-2013, 10:03 PM   #807
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - Part 7

Now, back when the FF were created the Torch could have been of a different nationality - just like the Panther could have been an Asian Indian or South American Indian - and they would have been exactly the same character. But they were created a specific way and I don't think its asking too much for that to be respected - in all cases.

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Old 10-28-2013, 12:46 AM   #808
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - Part 7

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If sue is black too then it doesn't change eithers status in the storm family.



For some i've noticed, not just here, but overall that the visuals make up 80% of their like or dislike of an adapted character and 20% for their concern is the actual characterisation.

People to this day still hold height against Hugh Jackmans Wolverine.

I don't believe there is any real reason to change a characters race, they can find people that look just like the characters and hire them, but in many cases they hire colourblind to chooseactors based on their talent and ability to best represent the characters character.

Diversity imo isn't a dirty word, i personally would like the movies to generally be more multi-cultural as it better represent modern society. The source material is from the 60s but the movies are from the 2000s.
You are correct in this, and it is about time that that diversity is shown as new characters in the comics are created. THAT, IMO is where you make the change. Blame the creators of today, not those that simply want what they have seen for over 40 years to continue to be what they see on the big screen. And no, the source material seems to be from the UFF, not 616 of yesteryear. Begin a writing campaign to DC and Marvel comics for starts and ask for a more diverse look in the comics themselves. Seems to me that would be the place to start.

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Old 10-28-2013, 07:01 AM   #809
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - Part 7

So i've realised i've been trying to change peoples opinions. Not only is that unrealistic it unfiar. My apoligies.

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Old 10-28-2013, 07:15 PM   #810
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - Part 7

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It is not wrong that people are upset about the race change of Johnny, they have every right to be upset. People want the characters that they grew up reading about to be represented visually as similar to the source as possible, as well as personality. Comic books have pictures if the characters so it is even more noticeable and will receive backlash when a character is changed. You just can't say to people that they should get over it when they have a right to be upset over pointless changes.
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...and some arbitrary uncalled for race change is suppose to magically make this happen ... right ...

Why not make Johnny Asian to cash in on the growing market in China?

How about Hispanic since they are the biggest "minority" in the US...wait, they did that the first time with Sue but it did not help...
Arbitrary-something random and pointless?

So changing Johnny's race wouldn't affect the meaning of the FF? It wouldn't mean that he loves his sister Sue less than in the comics? It wouldn't affect his powers?

So basically some people are upset that a change that doesn't mean anything to the character is changed?

Unlike say making Sherlock Holmes a modern day...oh wait.... or making Tony Stark not a Vietnam...oh wait.....

The live action versions are full arbitrary changes from the source material that don't affect the character's core.


People want this "pure" rendition then make that junk pure. Straight out of the comics having them do the space race and Sue not the more modern edge version introduced later on. Straight sixties housewife from Stan.

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Old 10-28-2013, 07:23 PM   #811
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - Part 7

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Arbitrary-something random and pointless?

So changing Johnny's race wouldn't affect the meaning of the FF? It wouldn't mean that he loves his sister Sue less than in the comics? It wouldn't affect his powers?

So basically some people are upset that a change that doesn't mean anything to the character is changed?

Unlike say making Sherlock Holmes a modern day...oh wait.... or making Tony Stark not a Vietnam...oh wait.....

The live action versions are full arbitrary changes from the source material that don't affect the character's core.


People want this "pure" rendition then make that junk pure. Straight out of the comics having them do the space race and Sue not the more modern edge version introduced later on. Straight sixties housewife from Stan.
That would simply be pure from the 616....why not pure from the UFF, or pure from the Marvel Knights, or pure from the FF Adventure series?

Again, why make the change? No one has yet to give a good, clear reason for the change. All I get is, why not?

Well, the why not for me is purely from a business stand point. Why make decisions that give an already floundering franchise more negative word of mouth than is necessary? Why make changes that will simply feed that? Why not find good, solid actors that meet the visual as well as the character and can act? There are plenty out there... so why the change? And again, I'm sure I will get the usual...."Why not?" Or the, its time for more diversity. Well I happen to agree with that, but let the diversity come from new creative characters. Are we that uncreative that in order to bring on diversity we simply change the race of a character that has had the same look for over 40 years and say....oh wow, look how cool and creative we are, look at the diversity. I'm sorry, but I would take that as an insult. Create something new, innovative and marketable.

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Old 10-28-2013, 07:47 PM   #812
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - Part 7

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That would simply be pure from the 616....why not pure from the UFF, or pure from the Marvel Knights, or pure from the FF Adventure series?

Again, why make the change? No one has yet to give a good, clear reason for the change. All I get is, why not?

Well, the why not for me is purely from a business stand point. Why make decisions that give an already floundering franchise more negative word of mouth than is necessary? Why make changes that will simply feed that? Why not find good, solid actors that meet the visual as well as the character and can act? There are plenty out there... so why the change? And again, I'm sure I will get the usual...."Why not?" Or the, its time for more diversity. Well I happen to agree with that, but let the diversity come from new creative characters. Are we that uncreative that in order to bring on diversity we simply change the race of a character that has had the same look for over 40 years and say....oh wow, look how cool and creative we are, look at the diversity. I'm sorry, but I would take that as an insult. Create something new, innovative and marketable.
My thoughts exactly. if i were a black actor id be pretty offended that some people feel that Im "good enough as an actor" to be given the chance to play a predominantly white role... It shouldn't be a privilege to take on a white role.... It should be a privilege to take an iconic black hero and prove a studio wrong by showing that a black superhero can be just as marketable (and profitable) as a white one...

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Old 10-28-2013, 08:25 PM   #813
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - Part 7

They should just change the race of every member of the film.If the film is a runaway success,then score one for the progressives.

If it fails,let it go back to Marvel for what could only be a more faithful version from the comics.Score one for the purists.

Everyone would be happy.

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Old 10-28-2013, 09:10 PM   #814
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - Part 7

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My thoughts exactly. if i were a black actor id be pretty offended that some people feel that Im "good enough as an actor" to be given the chance to play a predominantly white role... It shouldn't be a privilege to take on a white role.... It should be a privilege to take an iconic black hero and prove a studio wrong by showing that a black superhero can be just as marketable (and profitable) as a white one...
Oh my goodness...

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Old 10-28-2013, 09:15 PM   #815
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Oh my goodness
Sorry. I find it highly offensive. There's plenty of amazing black heroes that studios have no desire to give a chance and deserve to be given the respect. Its not really fair that a black actor has to be given a white role just to play a hero on the big screen. Its kinda ridiculous.

Im fine with race changing for minor roles... But i think all hell would break loose if we got a Chinese superman, an Indian batman, or a latino Luke cage growing up in Spanish harlem ......

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Old 10-28-2013, 11:18 PM   #816
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - Part 7

There definitely needs to be more new characters from different ethnicities being created. Most the time imo its writers trying to prove they can change previously established characters. Changing them in any form will be met with controversy, but that won't be the case if characters have been a certain way from the start. Nobody thinks twice about that. Tough thing is, it's difficult to establish that sort of following compared to the ones that have been around for ages.

The casting rumors all around are interesting for this film. It's actually made me more curious about it.


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Old 10-28-2013, 11:23 PM   #817
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - Part 7

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There definitely needs to be more new characters from different ethnicities being created. Most the time imo its writers trying to prove they can change previously established characters. Changing them in any form will be met with controversy, but that won't be the case if characters have been a certain way from the start. Nobody thinks twice about that. Tough thing is, it's difficult to establish that sort of following compared to the ones that have been around for ages.
There is the problem, they are lazy.

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Old 10-28-2013, 11:28 PM   #818
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - Part 7

There's plenty of great characters already though that have a moderate following and should be compelling enough for a huge boost in film...

Storm, Black Panther, Bishop, Blade, Nico Munroe,, Monica rambeau, Luke cage, shang - chi, misty knight,.... All non white characters who if given the right treatment could easily lead a film. Its just about taking risks and treating them well

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Old 10-28-2013, 11:34 PM   #819
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Arbitrary-something random and pointless?

Unlike say making Sherlock Holmes a modern day...oh wait.... or making Tony Stark not a Vietnam...oh wait.....

The live action versions are full arbitrary changes from the source material that don't affect the character's core.
Tony Stark was a weapons manufacturer injured during the conflict that the US was involved with at the time his story was told. It was 1963 so Vietnam was used.

Had it been the 1950's it would have been Korea.

The movie was set in the 2000's so it was updated to Afghanistan. Not in any way an arbitrary change - like making him a different race would have been - so your example is flawed at best.

I do not believe I have said changing the race of the Torch would change his character's core - I have just said its a pointless, arbitrary, pc motivated change for the sake of change that amounts to little more than stunt casting. I still find it hard to believe that with an estimated 50,000 male actors in SAG that Jordan is head and shoulders above all the rest and hands down the best choice for the part.

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Old 10-28-2013, 11:38 PM   #820
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - Part 7

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There's plenty of great characters already though that have a moderate following and should be compelling enough for a huge boost in film...

Storm, Black Panther, Bishop, Blade, Nico Munroe,, Monica rambeau, Luke cage, shang - chi, misty knight,.... All non white characters who if given the right treatment could easily lead a film. Its just about taking risks and treating them well
Definitely, not saying there are none out there. Brining those characters to screen should be a focus. We already have Blade, Storm and Bishop. Black Panther and Luke Cage are only a matter of time. And man someone please green light and bring back Runaways.

Should also make sure future characters are being written with diversity in mind, so we get more characters for the future. Theres never any issue with that and more can be done, I mean how many big name Asian Male heros in Marvel and DC are really out there?


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Old 10-28-2013, 11:41 PM   #821
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - Part 7

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There's plenty of great characters already though that have a moderate following and should be compelling enough for a huge boost in film...

Storm, Black Panther, Bishop, Blade, Nico Munroe,, Monica rambeau, Luke cage, shang - chi, misty knight,.... All non white characters who if given the right treatment could easily lead a film. Its just about taking risks and treating them well
Has Storm being from Africa ever been addressed in an X-Men movie? How she was once thought of as a Goddess? I honestly can not recall it ever being mentioned - thus there is NO reason for the movie version to be black other than that is the way she has been in the comics. Same for War Machine and I suspect the Falcon in the new Cap movie - but they should be black because they are in the comics. Period.

Same with Johnny Storm, or does this sort of tolerance not go both ways?

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Old 10-28-2013, 11:43 PM   #822
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Default Re: Fantastic Four reborn! - Part 7

Diversity is certainly happening more than it use to. Its just hard for any new heroes to compete with the classics.

Look at Guardians of the Galaxy. Most would think they're new characters but they're all like 40 years old and just finally getting their dues

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Old 10-28-2013, 11:50 PM   #823
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Thats changing the characters history and nationality (King off an African nation) and role (ruling and defending that nation). Changing Johnnys skin doesn't change his role or his origin, he'll still be American, part of the F4 and have his flame powers. Just like how Changing Heimdallls skin didn't change his character.

It's a superficial change that effects notthing about his character
black panther could be from South Africa. there are white Africans like Charlize Theron.

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Old 10-28-2013, 11:58 PM   #824
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black panther could be from South Africa. there are white Africans like Charlize Theron.
The Panther could be from South America or India and still essentially be the same character - the ruler of a high tech isolated nation sitting on a mound of Vibrianium.

And both of those areas have Black Panthers just like Africa.

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Old 10-29-2013, 12:01 AM   #825
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Diversity is certainly happening more than it use to. Its just hard for any new heroes to compete with the classics.

Look at Guardians of the Galaxy. Most would think they're new characters but they're all like 40 years old and just finally getting their dues
The Guardians movie does have a black woman playing a green one - now THAT'S diversity!

I know a version of the Guardians was first introduced in 1968 - but it was not these Guardians. Are any of the original team in these newer teams?

But it has pretty much taken 40 years for ANY Marvel characters to get a decent movie...

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