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Old 11-10-2013, 03:08 PM   #1
Black Light
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Default Am I the only one disappointed in the HZ score

Hi Guys
As an aspiring composer I was really disappointed in the MOS score that Hans Zimmer composed. I'm not hating at all because I love HZ but I think he missed the mark on both Superman and Clark. Please don't take this as me disrespecting HZ becaue I know a lot of people love him. Naturally nothing will stand up to the work that John Williams did on the original but HZ really just hit one note and that was it. The score went from boring (the Krypton motif, and Clark's Piano motif) to overbearing Flight and Zod motifs. For what they are they are fine pieces of music. I actually work out to Arcade and it gets me going. But as representatives of a dynamic and iconic character I think he just missed the mark. When emotion was needed HZ just got louder which didn't work for me.

And to show I'm not just complaining I kind of put my money where my mouth is. I composed a complete score for a Superman origin story that does not exist.

http://www.blacklightrecordings.com/...ton-soundtrack

I'm just beginning to study composing so I'm not saying this is better that HZ. It's just different.

Hope you guys like it.

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Old 11-10-2013, 04:49 PM   #2
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Default Re: Am I the only one disappointed in the HZ score

I enjoyed it although He didn't have much to work with considering the mediocrity of the movie.

Good luck on your music composing.

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Old 11-10-2013, 05:05 PM   #3
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Default Re: Am I the only one disappointed in the HZ score

His masterpiece is flight. It is an uplifting piece.

I loved his score. It fit the film. Great film great score.

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Old 11-10-2013, 05:29 PM   #4
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Default Re: Am I the only one disappointed in the HZ score

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His masterpiece is flight. It is an uplifting piece.

I loved his score. It fit the film. Great film great score.
Uplifting yes. But Superman as a character is deeper with deeper traits. Flight touches on hope, but I still thinks it lacks the patriotism, compassion, and more importantly the heroism that Williams managed to encapsulate so well. Eitherway, I'm glad you enjoyed HZs score.

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Old 11-10-2013, 05:30 PM   #5
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Default Re: Am I the only one disappointed in the HZ score

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Good luck on your music composing.
Thanks Jim!

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Old 11-10-2013, 05:37 PM   #6
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Default Re: Am I the only one disappointed in the HZ score

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Uplifting yes. But Superman as a character is deeper with deeper traits. Flight touches on hope, but I still thinks it lacks the patriotism, compassion, and more importantly the heroism that Williams managed to encapsulate so well. Eitherway, I'm glad you enjoyed HZs score.
Man of Steel was neither patriotic, compassionate, or victoriously heroic.

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Old 11-10-2013, 07:17 PM   #7
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Default Re: Am I the only one disappointed in the HZ score

Zack Snyder touched upon this in yesterdays live Yahoo! feed talking up the Blu-Ray. I, overtime, have grown to Zimmer's score for MOS. At first I thought it got lost in the film and wasn't as powerful as it should have been. But multiple viewings, it grew on me and Snyder hit it on the head when he described his and Zimmers conversations.

I'm glad Zimmer took the approach that he did. He said he approached it as though MOS is loud and somewhat spectacular in action, Superman is such a humble character at the surface and MOS captured that humbleness of Clark, so that's why he wanted many quiet moments within the score. Though we get that marching-beat in the action scenes, it's still a humbling score by nature and to Zimmer, Superman is a humbling character amidst his stance as a God roaming planet Earth and I think he captured that perfectly in MOS.

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Old 11-10-2013, 07:19 PM   #8
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Default Re: Am I the only one disappointed in the HZ score

The score is one of the few components of Man of Steel that I like (and will remain, while the list of other favored components diminishes.) On the drive up to Maine, I listened to the 2 disc version of the soundtrack and really enjoyed it.

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Old 11-10-2013, 09:18 PM   #9
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Default Re: Am I the only one disappointed in the HZ score

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He said he approached it as though MOS is loud and somewhat spectacular in action, Superman is such a humble character at the surface and MOS captured that humbleness of Clark, so that's why he wanted many quiet moments within the score. Though we get that marching-beat in the action scenes, it's still a humbling score by nature and to Zimmer, Superman is a humbling character amidst his stance as a God roaming planet Earth and I think he captured that perfectly in MOS.
Sounds good but I don't get humble from the score. You can have quiet and still be musically relevant. Listen the the cue "Death of Jonathan Kent" on the original Superman soundtrack. This cue has everything you mentioned, Tra-El. It's humble and inspiring at the same time. Zimmer's just seems minimalist to a fault; vacant and pedestrian in the quiet moments.

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Old 11-11-2013, 09:59 AM   #10
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Default Re: Am I the only one disappointed in the HZ score

I absolutely loved it I think it's one of the best superhero film scores of all time, in my top 5.

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Old 11-11-2013, 07:07 PM   #11
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Default Re: Am I the only one disappointed in the HZ score

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I absolutely loved it I think it's one of the best superhero film scores of all time, in my top 5.
Out of curiosity, DV, what are your top five?
Mine are:

5. DKR - Hans Zimmer
4. The Incredibles - Michael Giacchino
3. Spiderman - Danny Elfman
2. Batman - Danny Elfman
1. Superman - John Williams

Honorable mention goes to X-Men 2 - John Ottman.

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Old 11-11-2013, 07:09 PM   #12
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Default Re: Am I the only one disappointed in the HZ score

I generally love the whole thing. I was sorta shocked when they said they wouldn't use the Williams theme but I wasn't really expecting them to do so with it being a reboot...now expecting them to and wanting them to are two different things. Did I WANT to hear the iconic theme?? Of course I did....did I think I would hear it? Nope. And I admit I was a little concerned when Zimmer was named the composer because I don't like his Batman music, but after I heard his score I was blown away...so no, I wasn't let down

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Old 11-11-2013, 07:28 PM   #13
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Default Re: Am I the only one disappointed in the HZ score

I can't stand John Williams' Superman score.

The main theme is effective though, especially for the tone of those movies.

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Old 11-11-2013, 08:14 PM   #14
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I can't stand John Williams' Superman score.

The main theme is effective though, especially for the tone of those movies.
Wow. That's a new one. Remember, Williams only scored the original Superman. Ken Thorn scored all of the rest.

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Old 11-11-2013, 10:31 PM   #15
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Default Re: Am I the only one disappointed in the HZ score

Zimmer’s MOS is my favourite overall Superman score. I like how he used the drums as a backbone ala his Dark Knight scores. It felt appropriate, given the two characters are similar yet so different in terms of tone. Superman: drums with hopeful sounds, Batman: drums with darker sounds. WAYGTDWYANSTW?, Earth, Flight, Arcade, Terraforming etc are all solid cues.

WAYGTDWYANSTW? really captures Superman for me. Especially the building optimism at the start.

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Old 11-12-2013, 02:51 AM   #16
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Default Re: Am I the only one disappointed in the HZ score

Dude, hope the composing is going well.

Have to disagree with you on the score. I thought it was a triumph.
HZ is cool, in that his themes aren't really "hum-a-long" themes like John Williams
( and I LOVED John Williams' Superman theme, that was pure magnificence,
surpassing Star Wars......but certainly a product of its time).

anyway, they aren't hum-a-long, but are really distinctive and memorable (did you
know HZ did Kung fu panda ?)
I think he does a better job with motifs than JW, okay, well at least as good a job.
( nothing is ever going to top the Imperial March, which is a bit of a lift from Holst's
Mars, as you probably know)....anyway, HZ's got such a variety in his work.
(another example "you're so cool" from True Romance).

Anyway, what can I say, despite being very attached to the original Superman score,
I loved what HZ did, particularly in the Krypton sequence, Lois' escape from Zod's ship
and of course, the Flight scene, which was pure magic.

- possibly the only music which wasn't quite as good as it could have been was
the final confrontation between Zod and Supes. But, that was quickly redeemed by the end title, which starts of soft in the cemetery scene and builds to a triumph (I'm over-using that word, sorry).

Anyway, agree to disagree, MOS rocked as a movie and as a score. Would have liked a little more of the end title, which seems to be Superman's new de facto theme (loved the tease we got of it in the "Flight scene ")

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Old 11-12-2013, 03:59 AM   #17
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Default Re: Am I the only one disappointed in the HZ score

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- possibly the only music which wasn't quite as good as it could have been was
the final confrontation between Zod and Supes.
I love almost everything in the score except this scene.

Too much melody going on, especially by the time we get up to the satellite. It feels like a music video by this point, taking too much emphasis away from the fight itself. Too choral.

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But, that was quickly redeemed by the end title, which starts of soft in the cemetery scene and builds to a triumph (I'm over-using that word, sorry).
Agreed. Great ending.

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Old 11-12-2013, 06:10 AM   #18
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Default Re: Am I the only one disappointed in the HZ score

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I love almost everything in the score except this scene.

Too much melody going on, especially by the time we get up to the satellite. It feels like a music video by this point, taking too much emphasis away from the fight itself. Too choral.



Agreed. Great ending.

Cheers dude. Too bad HZ didn't quite get that final climactic bit of scoring right, as it would have possibly helped the pace of that fight, which was
frenetic. Not much of a complaint though, in the context of the rest of the
score which was fantastic. ( I won't say triumph again).

Peace out dude !

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Old 11-12-2013, 01:16 PM   #19
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Dude, hope the composing is going well.

Have to disagree with you on the score. I thought it was a triumph.
HZ is cool, in that his themes aren't really "hum-a-long" themes like John Williams
( and I LOVED John Williams' Superman theme, that was pure magnificence,
surpassing Star Wars......but certainly a product of its time).

anyway, they aren't hum-a-long, but are really distinctive and memorable (did you
know HZ did Kung fu panda ?)
I think he does a better job with motifs than JW, okay, well at least as good a job.
( nothing is ever going to top the Imperial March, which is a bit of a lift from Holst's
Mars, as you probably know)....anyway, HZ's got such a variety in his work.
(another example "you're so cool" from True Romance).

Anyway, what can I say, despite being very attached to the original Superman score,
I loved what HZ did, particularly in the Krypton sequence, Lois' escape from Zod's ship
and of course, the Flight scene, which was pure magic.

- possibly the only music which wasn't quite as good as it could have been was
the final confrontation between Zod and Supes. But, that was quickly redeemed by the end title, which starts of soft in the cemetery scene and builds to a triumph (I'm over-using that word, sorry).

Anyway, agree to disagree, MOS rocked as a movie and as a score. Would have liked a little more of the end title, which seems to be Superman's new de facto theme (loved the tease we got of it in the "Flight scene ")
Hey Bats,
All great points, thanks for contributing. I'm a big HZ fan myself. Gladiator and The Lion King being highlights for me. I see know that I'm just a product of a different time. My brain looks for melodic structure in everything. Not that any one approach is better than another...just different. This good for me to hear what really gets people going, because that is what making music is all about. Gotta give the people what they want!

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Old 11-12-2013, 01:19 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by FeedOnATreeFrog View Post

Too much melody going on, especially by the time we get up to the satellite. It feels like a music video by this point, taking too much emphasis away from the fight itself. Too choral.


Interesting, idea. I grew up in a time where the films had simple effects. I guess when the visuals are simple, the music can make up with it's complexity. But when the visuals are grand and complex a different approach may work.

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Old 11-12-2013, 01:54 PM   #21
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Default Re: Am I the only one disappointed in the HZ score

I totally agree with the OP. I was thoroughly underwhelmed by the score. To me, Superman embodies the hope that is in all of us and the theme misses the mark. The rest of the score, to me, too percussive and aimless. I'm glad there are those that are moved by it and see it as a triumph, but to me, it didn't come close.

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Old 11-13-2013, 02:26 AM   #22
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Default Re: Am I the only one disappointed in the HZ score

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Hey Bats,
All great points, thanks for contributing. I'm a big HZ fan myself. Gladiator and The Lion King being highlights for me. I see know that I'm just a product of a different time. My brain looks for melodic structure in everything. Not that any one approach is better than another...just different. This good for me to hear what really gets people going, because that is what making music is all about. Gotta give the people what they want!

Cheers dude. As an afficianado of music, where do you stand on the use of motifs in film scores. Williams was the master, but I think HZ does a good
job (particularly in the DK trilogy ...I mean, the Joker's motif is just one note
drawn out like a raw nerve, that's something very special,
and of course in MOS, but as I said, I wanted more of Kal-El/Superman's motif (which is what we get in the flight scene).
Clark Kent has his own motif, which is the soft piano we hear in the "You're the answer son" scene, I think it's understated strength reflects Clark's inner struggle to conceal his true nature.

Just a thought. Would you agree the Imperial march is the greatest ever use of motif in cinema (well, okay, let's say sci-fi/fantasy cinema, as it can't beat Jaws or Indiana Jones, both Williams).

On that note, where do you stand on Michael Giacchino? I love him and hate him, as his music is the most manipulative out there at the moment (much more so than HZ, or Williams) watch the opening scenes of Star Trek (where George Kirk sacrifices himself) + the launching of the raft from Lost, season 1 + the climatic moments of the final race in Speed Racer....then you'll see what I mean.
Similar elements, and we know we're being manipulated, but boy, it works. I can't watch those scenes without getting emotional.

He can be a bit bombastic and repetitive, without quite the range of HZ or Williams, but he's certainly one of the top film score composers out there.

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Old 11-13-2013, 03:48 PM   #23
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Default Re: Am I the only one disappointed in the HZ score

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Cheers dude. As an afficianado of music, where do you stand on the use of motifs in film scores. Williams was the master, but I think HZ does a good
job (particularly in the DK trilogy ...I mean, the Joker's motif is just one note
drawn out like a raw nerve, that's something very special,
and of course in MOS, but as I said, I wanted more of Kal-El/Superman's motif (which is what we get in the flight scene).
Clark Kent has his own motif, which is the soft piano we hear in the "You're the answer son" scene, I think it's understated strength reflects Clark's inner struggle to conceal his true nature.

Just a thought. Would you agree the Imperial march is the greatest ever use of motif in cinema (well, okay, let's say sci-fi/fantasy cinema, as it can't beat Jaws or Indiana Jones, both Williams).

On that note, where do you stand on Michael Giacchino? I love him and hate him, as his music is the most manipulative out there at the moment (much more so than HZ, or Williams) watch the opening scenes of Star Trek (where George Kirk sacrifices himself) + the launching of the raft from Lost, season 1 + the climatic moments of the final race in Speed Racer....then you'll see what I mean.
Similar elements, and we know we're being manipulated, but boy, it works. I can't watch those scenes without getting emotional.

He can be a bit bombastic and repetitive, without quite the range of HZ or Williams, but he's certainly one of the top film score composers out there.
Bats
I think music takes on different roles in different types of films. Motif is not that important in dram/suspense movies but for the Superhero film it essential. Superheros are larger than life and and good superhero film needs a good superhero theme. I think Zimmer really outdid himself with Dark Knight. The subject matter and his approach matched perfectly. The problem now is that he is trying to use that same approach for MOS and IMHO it does not seem to fit (but I seem to be in the minority there).

Williams, no doubt it the master. Imperial March for DV it tops, and what would the Richard Donner Superman be without the timpani pounding march. Plus, in my opinion, the love theme from Superman is one of the most beautiful pieces of music ever put on film!

I love Giacchino's work. Especially "The Incredibles" on of my top superhero themes. I think his work on Star Trek strikes a good balance between giving something new and nodding to Jerry Goldsmith. Much like John Ottman did with Superman Returns.

What is amazing about Williams work is it's depth. His Krypton motif at the beginning of "The Planet Krypton" still sounds good today, a nod to Strauss "Also sprach Zarathustra". And his Smallville motif ("The Death of Jonathan Kent" and leaving home captures Clark perfectly. Zimmer's piano motif is too simple (almost lazy). Zimmer seems to have forgotten that you can be understated and still me musically relavent.

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Old 11-13-2013, 06:02 PM   #24
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Default Re: Am I the only one disappointed in the HZ score

I really think the Zimmer score didn't have the regal, punchy, bright and bombastic feel that Superman deserves. Bright and bombastic is what the Kirk Allyn serial music was, the Adventures of Superman had that quality STAS and L&C as well as STM all had that quality.

This was different.

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Old 11-13-2013, 08:17 PM   #25
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Default Re: Am I the only one disappointed in the HZ score

I don't know if I would say I was disappointed, but there were some areas that left me dissatisfied.

lol...posted in the right thread now.

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