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Old 09-02-2013, 05:27 PM   #151
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Default Re: Underrated CB movies

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TASM had great moments. What SM3 was good action. Great moments imply more than great CGI.

Great moments like Peter being heroic without having super-powers, or Spider-man saving that boy from the falling car. Great momnents are a thankful father understanding that this masked man is a hero. Also Uncle Ben being a proper fatherly figure.

Mediocre is having one-dimensional characters or achieving emotion just through music (death of Uncle Ben in SM1).

Garfield could portray the nerd but not the caricature Raimi concocted, the nerd that's shy, smart but not a social dead loss. Same with Uncle Ben, the good guy but also a proper fatherly figure in the case of ATSM, not someone who's unable to lecture his "son" if the boy gets mad.



I agree.



Not only can Maguire's face kick you out of any trace of drama that scene could have had, but also Harry's death was useless and avoidable. He died to save Peter because Peter couldn't get free. It turns out that immediately after he dies, Peter gets free.

Not even close to a great death scene.

And Uncle Ben's death scene had some drama in ATSM. Garfield did some great job there. Maguire barely dropped a few tears and left the scene.



SM2, yes. But again, good action is being achieved by way too many directors to say that it is a sign of greatness.



Again, I can mention the fast-paced and delirious initial action scene in Batman & Robin. It's worth of praising.



They tried to blow each other's heads, then Bernard the butler does his deus ex machina and ta-dah, they become a perfect fighting duo, throwing jokes at each other. If that's the best it can offer, then it's a no from me.





Yeah, but when Peter talked back at him, he just lowered his head and refuse to teach the boy a necessary lesson.

You're right. Too bad TASM was a paint-by-numbers affair by Sony that was just aping better moments from the Raimi film and a poor re-styling of what Nolan did.

I stand by that Harry's death in the awful SM3 has more weight than Uncle Ben's in TASM, and that the Birth of Sandman is more emotionally powerful than the Lizard's "arc." Venom is scarier in his birth and all the action sequences are superior. Really TASM is only better because it never devolves into the complete horror show that is Peter Parker dancing down the street to James Brown or relying on the laziest of plot devices like the know-it-all butler (albeit, the Lizard leaving "How I Dun It" on loop in the sewer is also pretty freaking lazy). Talk about damning TASM with faint praise.

As for Maguire being a bad actor: Go watch Ride with the Devil, Brothers, Wonder Boys and even The Great Gatsby.

I think Garfield likely is the better actor and a more natural fit (though his character is so poorly written in TASM, it matters little). However, Maguire is not the hack some haters like to pretend.

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Old 09-02-2013, 07:13 PM   #152
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Default Re: Underrated CB movies

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Agreed. Lizard was handled much worse than any Raimi villain, including Venom.

As for Green Goblin the rumor is that Harry Osborn will be revealed to be the Green Goblin during the film's climax when he kills Gwen Stacy and that Norman Osborn dies of illness.

And before anyone says it was debunked, consider that Felicity Jones let slip that she is playing "The Green Goblin's girlfriend." I'd doubt that is Chris Cooper.



Only in AF#15. It is well sourced throughout canon, 616, Ultimate and the endless cartoon shows that Uncle Ben says it. And him not saying it, but using one of the many versions used in Ultimate, is a timid and half-assed attempt to appear different from the Raimi version. Instead, it just feels inferior.
The Lizard is on par with GG. The only bad thing was leaving out his family. Lizard is based on how he was drawn in the 60's and his plan was based on one of his storylines. GG looked ridiculous, a power ranger nothing like his CB counter part. His plan was legit but then it was to rule the city? It's never fully explained.
Exactly, that line was never originally said by Uncle Ben. The line he does say was always attributed to Uncle Ben in Ultimate, it's the same meaning with altered words so that's whats important. If anything that is a bonus for accuracy.

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Old 09-02-2013, 07:47 PM   #153
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Default Re: Underrated CB movies

Green Goblin in SM1 is the same character he's always been, just in a goofy outfit. That's not the same thing at all.

ASM took a great sympathetic character along the lines of Larry Talbot and turned him into a generic 'let's turn everybody into lizards' supervillain like something out of the 60s cartoon. Taking away Connors' family is liking taking away Magneto's Holocaust background. It completely changes who the character is, and makes him a whole lot less interesting. His look is the least of my criticisms.

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Old 09-02-2013, 07:57 PM   #154
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Dude that happened in the ultimate origin. That scene reminded me of when my parents lectured me on "responsibility".
The way it was played was way over done.IMO.Grasping for as much brooding melodrama as they could.

The classic Ben Parker was the "don't feed him any more wheatcakes,May,I may not be able to arm wrestle him any more!"guy.Raimi captured that perfectly.

Now,I've never read any Ultimate,nor do I want to,but if that Ben Parker was a loud,angry guy that made a big stink over things like Peter "humiliating" Flash,then I guess Webb captured that perfectly.

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Old 09-02-2013, 08:01 PM   #155
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Re: The Lizard: In fairness,they already overused the "sympathetic villain" card in Ock and Sandman.(where it wasn't particularly warranted.)So,in an attempt to distance themselves (yet again!) from the Raimi series,they completely jettisoned the core concept of the character being a family man.

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Old 09-02-2013, 08:10 PM   #156
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The way it was played was way over done.IMO.Grasping for as much brooding melodrama as they could.

The classic Ben Parker was the "don't feed him any more wheatcakes,May,I may not be able to arm wrestle him any more!"guy.Raimi captured that perfectly.

Now,I've never read any Ultimate,nor do I want to,but if that Ben Parker was a loud,angry guy that made a big stink over things like Peter "humiliating" Flash,then I guess Webb captured that perfectly.
Their relationship gets a little strained when Peter acquires his powers and uses them to personal ends in all adaptations. The scenes where Peter comes home and they find his fathers bag show just fine the everyday relationship he normally has with Uncle Ben.

If you don't want to read the Ultimate line, you are missing out on some really good stories.

Also, they did have to switch around Dr. Connors especially since his original "family man / good intended scientist goes off the deep end" was applied to Dr. Octopus, totally changing that characters origin too. I do think the scenes that showed Dr. Connors family that had been cut, shouldn't have. And I do think Spider-Man 3 does tend to be under-rated for its ill-advised scenes. But Amazing is leaps ahead of it.

So hopefully on the bright side, in the Amazing series we can get the true Doctor Octopus.


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Old 09-02-2013, 08:22 PM   #157
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The difference to me between Tobey and Garfield crying was with Tobey,it looked like a guy crying.It's not pretty (and it's not supposed to be) but a release of emotion.With Garfield I felt like it was an actor crying.Now that's not to say Garfield isn't a good actor,but I didn't get the sense that it was something spontaneous,but something that was put on paper to be filmed.
They both made me laugh
Garfield crying is funnier

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for me Watchmen is the most underrated comic book movie of all time i have it in my top 5 of best cbm
Reminds me a bit of Avengers poster
Maybe they took inspiration from Watchmen's poster for theirs?

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I feel like some people in this thread are confusing "movies that are underrated" with "movies that are terrible but I like anyway".
How about "These movies are not as bad/low class as people say they are"?

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I thought the Emo scene was just as bad as Bat nipples or Batcard
2 seconds, seriously, people made a fuss over 2 seconds of plastic

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Old 09-02-2013, 08:37 PM   #158
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I guess I'm the only one who liked the dance scene in Spider-man 3. The movie wasn't good anyway why not have fun?

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Old 09-02-2013, 08:41 PM   #159
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I guess I'm the only one who liked the dance scene in Spider-man 3. The movie wasn't good anyway why not have fun?
You're kidding? It's hilarious

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Old 09-02-2013, 09:03 PM   #160
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You're agreeing with me?

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Old 09-02-2013, 09:17 PM   #161
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Default Re: Underrated CB movies

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The Lizard is on par with GG. The only bad thing was leaving out his family. Lizard is based on how he was drawn in the 60's and his plan was based on one of his storylines. GG looked ridiculous, a power ranger nothing like his CB counter part. His plan was legit but then it was to rule the city? It's never fully explained.
Exactly, that line was never originally said by Uncle Ben. The line he does say was always attributed to Uncle Ben in Ultimate, it's the same meaning with altered words so that's whats important. If anything that is a bonus for accuracy.
Lizard and Green Goblin are my two favorite Spidey villains.

There is nothing about their treatment that is similar. GG got a lousy costume, but they captured the original Stan Lee/John Romita tragedy of the character, being Harry's father and trying to be a mentor to Peter (though he resists), as well as the nastiness, as seen when he beats the loving **** out of Peter at the end and threatens to possibly rape MJ. It is gross, it is mean, it makes you hate the son of a *****.

Granted, they didn't do the Death of Gwen Stacy, which is a real shame. But they did the essence to the character in the way I feel, say, Jack Nicholson got the essence of the Joker, even if I thought they could go darker and scarier (which Ledger did).

The Lizard came off as a moron. By having him transform in and out of the Lizard transformation, he wasn't a good man trapped in a monster's body, but an ******* with a drug addiction that he wanted to spread. If he can go back and forth, he is not sympathetic. Removing the family takes away what makes him unique in Spidey's, or for that matter comicdom's, pantheon: Peter wants to help him. There are times where they team up, because Peter is trying to cure him and his brain slides between reptile and human.

Instead we get this sad joke:

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:


And yes, taking away his lab coat lost that Ditko visual flavor that made him unique. Instead, he looked like a goomba.

I have never been more disappointed in how a villain has been portrayed. Ever. Just a failure in every sense.

As for missing "With Great Power..." they threw away one of the most iconic lines of comicdom that defines their character--well it used to--out of fear of being called a pointless remake. Too late for that.

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Old 09-03-2013, 12:14 AM   #162
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Lizard lacks Connors family, everything else is fine
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You're agreeing with me?
About the dance scene at least

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Old 09-03-2013, 12:21 AM   #163
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I guess I'm the only one who liked the dance scene in Spider-man 3. The movie wasn't good anyway why not have fun?
I like the dance scenes. Not only does it show that Peter is inherently good, but the most evil he could become is a...goof. Because at his core, that's what he is. A good-hearted goof. I also like Spider-Man 3.


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Re: The Lizard: In fairness,they already overused the "sympathetic villain" card in Ock and Sandman.(where it wasn't particularly warranted.)So,in an attempt to distance themselves (yet again!) from the Raimi series,they completely jettisoned the core concept of the character being a family man.
It was done poorly, IMO.

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Old 09-03-2013, 07:33 AM   #164
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Lizard and Green Goblin are my two favorite Spidey villains.

There is nothing about their treatment that is similar. GG got a lousy costume, but they captured the original Stan Lee/John Romita tragedy of the character, being Harry's father and trying to be a mentor to Peter (though he resists), as well as the nastiness, as seen when he beats the loving **** out of Peter at the end and threatens to possibly rape MJ. It is gross, it is mean, it makes you hate the son of a *****.

Granted, they didn't do the Death of Gwen Stacy, which is a real shame. But they did the essence to the character in the way I feel, say, Jack Nicholson got the essence of the Joker, even if I thought they could go darker and scarier (which Ledger did).

The Lizard came off as a moron. By having him transform in and out of the Lizard transformation, he wasn't a good man trapped in a monster's body, but an ******* with a drug addiction that he wanted to spread. If he can go back and forth, he is not sympathetic. Removing the family takes away what makes him unique in Spidey's, or for that matter comicdom's, pantheon: Peter wants to help him. There are times where they team up, because Peter is trying to cure him and his brain slides between reptile and human.

Instead we get this sad joke:

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:


And yes, taking away his lab coat lost that Ditko visual flavor that made him unique. Instead, he looked like a goomba.

I have never been more disappointed in how a villain has been portrayed. Ever. Just a failure in every sense.

As for missing "With Great Power..." they threw away one of the most iconic lines of comicdom that defines their character--well it used to--out of fear of being called a pointless remake. Too late for that.
Green Goblin had a plan, "to rule the city with Spider-Man" it is never fully explained what is meant by that. The Lizard had one and was used in one of his earliest stories, to improve humanity by turning them into creatures like himself. I do not get the complaint of The Lizard having a split personality, it's a liberty Webb took just as Rami took with all his villains bar GG. Green Goblin while meanacing near the end was at times laughable. I know Rami liked cheese but a man in a power ranger costume singing "Itcy Bitcy Spider'" is not GG. The lab coat was a nod to how he looked in the comics to the GA, they would be wondering why he is wearing a lab coat all the time. There was no nod to how the GG looked in SM1, even the punkin bombs were different.
For the record I like Rami's first two and even think SM2 is possibly the best out of all the films. Even SM2 has had it's disapointments. I do not think any Spidey film yet has really maximised the potential of the character.

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Old 09-03-2013, 11:50 AM   #165
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I love the scene where Connors is agreeing arguing with himself in the sewers.

Lizard: "I think we should kill Spider-Man!"
Connors: "I agree, we should kill Spider-Man!"
Lizard: "Let's go kill Spider-Man!"
Connors: "Why are we talking about this even though we agree with each other?"
Lizard: "Meh, they did a similar thing in the first movie."


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Old 09-03-2013, 12:09 PM   #166
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Green Goblin had a plan, "to rule the city with Spider-Man" it is never fully explained what is meant by that. The Lizard had one and was used in one of his earliest stories, to improve humanity by turning them into creatures like himself. I do not get the complaint of The Lizard having a split personality, it's a liberty Webb took just as Rami took with all his villains bar GG. Green Goblin while meanacing near the end was at times laughable. I know Rami liked cheese but a man in a power ranger costume singing "Itcy Bitcy Spider'" is not GG. The lab coat was a nod to how he looked in the comics to the GA, they would be wondering why he is wearing a lab coat all the time. There was no nod to how the GG looked in SM1, even the punkin bombs were different.
For the record I like Rami's first two and even think SM2 is possibly the best out of all the films. Even SM2 has had it's disapointments. I do not think any Spidey film yet has really maximised the potential of the character.
Suffice it to say that I have been waiting to see the Lizard on the big screen since rumors surfaced he'd appear in Spider-Man 2 back in 2003.

I have waited patiently to see my childhood favorite (though GG and Ock obviously supplanted that as I got older) in a movie.

The results are one of the main reasons I find TASM abysmal. I know that they loosely pulled from early Lizard stories, but really there have become better ways to adapt him displayed in the comics.

Beyond that the split personality takes away the tragedy of the character. It makes him appear like a GG-knockoff and makes him unsympathetic. Taking away his family also removes Peter's unique motivation which would stand out from his other villains: curing him to save Connors' family. You remove that, he is just a giant monster.

And you take away the Ditko coat, he doesn't even look like a cool giant monster. He's a giant lizard, nobody will be wondering about the coat anymore than people watching The Avengers were asking why Hulk still had pants on.

Suffice it to say that when I left SM1, I felt they did justice to the GG despite the silly costume (and yes singing "itsy bitsy spider" is very in character). I did not feel even remotely close to that with the Lizard, which is a real shame.

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Old 09-03-2013, 12:53 PM   #167
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Suffice it to say that I have been waiting to see the Lizard on the big screen since rumors surfaced he'd appear in Spider-Man 2 back in 2003.

I have waited patiently to see my childhood favorite (though GG and Ock obviously supplanted that as I got older) in a movie.

The results are one of the main reasons I find TASM abysmal. I know that they loosely pulled from early Lizard stories, but really there have become better ways to adapt him displayed in the comics.

Beyond that the split personality takes away the tragedy of the character. It makes him appear like a GG-knockoff and makes him unsympathetic. Taking away his family also removes Peter's unique motivation which would stand out from his other villains: curing him to save Connors' family. You remove that, he is just a giant monster.

And you take away the Ditko coat, he doesn't even look like a cool giant monster. He's a giant lizard, nobody will be wondering about the coat anymore than people watching The Avengers were asking why Hulk still had pants on.

Suffice it to say that when I left SM1, I felt they did justice to the GG despite the silly costume (and yes singing "itsy bitsy spider" is very in character). I did not feel even remotely close to that with the Lizard, which is a real shame.
Yea but you can't say the Lizard was piss poor for reasons above. You and me on leaving out his family but there was that mirror scene which was nice. We disagree about the lab coat but to each it's own. All I'm saying was that looking at the plus and negative I felt both were on par (ok villains). Two lesser things (Costume, Quotes,) and not having a proper plan make him equal to the Lizard (leaving out his family) IMO. I don't see the split personality being anymore a knock off than making Ock into a sympathetic bad guy (I didn't mind that). You can't let Rami off for taking libertys when Webb does something even less drastic.
I'm done with the Hype. I'm going to retire from it and lock myself away in my house for 8 years. Just kidding but that would be awfully stupid, wouldn't it .

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Old 09-03-2013, 12:57 PM   #168
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I love the scene where Connors is agreeing arguing with himself in the sewers.

Lizard: "I think we should kill Spider-Man!"
Connors: "I agree, we should kill Spider-Man!"
Lizard: "Let's go kill Spider-Man!"
Connors: "Why are we talking about this even though we agree with each other?"
Lizard: "Meh, they did a similar thing in the first movie."

Yeah, that moment is useless

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Old 09-03-2013, 01:10 PM   #169
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I love the scene where Connors is agreeing arguing with himself in the sewers.

Lizard: "I think we should kill Spider-Man!"
Connors: "I agree, we should kill Spider-Man!"
Lizard: "Let's go kill Spider-Man!"
Connors: "Why are we talking about this even though we agree with each other?"
Lizard: "Meh, they did a similar thing in the first movie."

I also like the scene in SM2 where Spidey talks to Dr Conners, you know the one with robotic arms

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Old 09-03-2013, 01:13 PM   #170
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Yeah, that moment is useless
Hmmm did he say that exact same dialogue other than the joke bit?

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Old 09-03-2013, 01:31 PM   #171
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You cannot let Rami off with one thing while criticising Webb for doing the same f***ing thing! If the Lizard didn't have a split personality it would be weird why he would be would let him carry out his plan. Also the Lizard needs smaller hands to make the serium.

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Old 09-03-2013, 03:55 PM   #172
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Hmmm did he say that exact same dialogue other than the joke bit?
No, but that's the idea

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Old 09-03-2013, 05:54 PM   #173
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Yea but you can't say the Lizard was piss poor for reasons above. You and me on leaving out his family but there was that mirror scene which was nice. We disagree about the lab coat but to each it's own. All I'm saying was that looking at the plus and negative I felt both were on par (ok villains). Two lesser things (Costume, Quotes,) and not having a proper plan make him equal to the Lizard (leaving out his family) IMO. I don't see the split personality being anymore a knock off than making Ock into a sympathetic bad guy (I didn't mind that). You can't let Rami off for taking libertys when Webb does something even less drastic.
I'm done with the Hype. I'm going to retire from it and lock myself away in my house for 8 years. Just kidding but that would be awfully stupid, wouldn't it .
How about leave it at this: Despite the stupid costume, GG was memorable, threatening and left audiences generally impressed. Some felt really bad for him, or at least Harry, and others hated him, not least of all when he gave Spidey still the biggest ass-whopping he has received on the big screen.

Nobody left satisfied with the Lizard. Fans of the character, like myself, thought it was an awful adaptation of a favorite. And those who did not know or care for the character thought he was boring, cliché and the worst villain ever used in a Spidey villain.

One left audiences satisfied, the other left no one satisfied. That is a key difference.

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Old 09-03-2013, 05:58 PM   #174
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Default Re: Underrated CB movies

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Originally Posted by DACrowe View Post
How about leave it at this: Despite the stupid costume, GG was memorable, threatening and left audiences generally impressed. Some felt really bad for him, or at least Harry, and others hated him, not least of all when he gave Spidey still the biggest ass-whopping he has received on the big screen.

Nobody left satisfied with the Lizard. Fans of the character, like myself, thought it was an awful adaptation of a favorite. And those who did not know or care for the character thought he was boring, cliché and the worst villain ever used in a Spidey villain.

One left audiences satisfied, the other left no one satisfied. That is a key difference.
Agree to disagree. Though I agree that GG was more memorable. I don't think it is generally agreed that he is worse than any villain from SM3.

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Im done. Im leaving this website. I promise i will not be spiderman or attempt to be. I have a ral careerr to fulfill. Please don NOT tell anyone about this. I would appreciate if you all kept this a secret.
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Old 09-03-2013, 06:05 PM   #175
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Default Re: Underrated CB movies

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No, but that's the idea
I remember him arguing with himself but not discussing killing Spider-Man.

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Im done. Im leaving this website. I promise i will not be spiderman or attempt to be. I have a ral careerr to fulfill. Please don NOT tell anyone about this. I would appreciate if you all kept this a secret.
There has been an awakening, have you felt it?
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