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Old 08-09-2013, 01:26 PM   #76
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Default Re: What if it flops?

That reminds me, i am very glad that Michael Bay is not directing this Superman /Batman film.

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Old 08-09-2013, 02:55 PM   #77
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Default Re: What if it flops?

No, instead Michael Bay is currently busy kicking TMNT fans in the nuts repeatedly by casting Megan Fox as April O'Neil instead of Jane Levy or Elizabeth Olsen, and having a white American play the Shredder. Zack Snyder is freaking Stanley Kubrick compared to Bay.

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Old 08-09-2013, 04:44 PM   #78
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Default Re: What if it flops?

Snyder and Bay are similar...

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Old 08-09-2013, 04:59 PM   #79
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Default Re: What if it flops?

Except Bay is ten times worse. Bay has made one genuinely goo movie (The Rock), and another enjoyable movie (Bad Boys). I do need to see Pain and Gain. The only Snyder movie that I haven't enjoyed is Sucker Punch.

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Old 08-09-2013, 05:08 PM   #80
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Default Re: What if it flops?

I must watch watchman

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Old 08-09-2013, 05:30 PM   #81
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Default Re: What if it flops?

Watchmen, man.

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Old 08-09-2013, 07:43 PM   #82
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Default Re: What if it flops?

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Right, like they replaced Goyer/Snyder for Batman/Superman when MOS flopped with the critics.
It didn't with audiences (it was divisive though) plus money talks (sad but true).

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Old 08-09-2013, 08:37 PM   #83
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Default Re: What if it flops?

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So it's looking like the fanatical Batman fans are going to boycott the film so that the WB only makes Batman films from now on. That shows you how much they really care about the other DC heroes.
To be honest, I don't. I'm by extension a DC fan but I am no way as emotionally attached to the other characters in the same universe as I am Batman. But I do love how you jumped to the conclusion we are all suddenly going to boycott the film dnno, whether I see the film or not comes down to whether it's actually good, it's not my job to watch films simply to ensure a franchise has longevity or that it produces spin off films. Oh no, my job it to merely watch what I deem worthy of my hard earned cash, whether it be from WB, Fox, Marvel, Sony or whoever is making the movies. Yes us fundamentalist Batman fans are going to do our absolute darndest to ensure the future of DC films only consist of a man in a cape and cowl, because you know, it's not like we've got better things to be doing with our lives.

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Old 08-09-2013, 08:45 PM   #84
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Default Re: What if it flops?

Getting mixed reviews, with more being positive than negative, does not mean MOS flopped with critics, some people don't seem to know what "flopped" means. Jonah Hex, GL, Transformers 2 all flopped, MOS did not.

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Old 08-09-2013, 09:37 PM   #85
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It didn't with audiences (it was divisive though) plus money talks (sad but true).
I'm inclined to think it did kind of flop with audiences with those 60% drops. People can quote online ratings and surveys for MOS and all, but yes, the money talks and is way more indicative to me of how audiences felt about MOS. It really coasted off it's opening weekend for it's overall good boxoffice.


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Old 08-09-2013, 10:38 PM   #86
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I'm inclined to think it did kind of flop with audiences with those 60% drops. People can quote online ratings and surveys for MOS and all, but yes, the money talks and is way more indicative to me of how audiences felt about MOS. It really coasted off it's opening weekend for it's overall good boxoffice.
Believe what you want but not a flop. Lots of movies ( the Harry potters for example ) had similar drops. Really tired of people who didn't like the movie redefining flop and failure. The totals were just fine and really good for a reboot from a disliked last attempt.

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Old 08-09-2013, 10:51 PM   #87
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Believe what you want but not a flop. Lots of movies ( the Harry potters for example ) had similar drops. Really tired of people who didn't like the movie redefining flop and failure. The totals were just fine and really good for a reboot from a disliked last attempt.
The movie definitely did not flop financially but it was no hit with audiences. Harry Potter is a completely different situation so really can't be compared the same way. And the Harry Potter movies did way better overseas than MOS.

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Old 08-09-2013, 10:56 PM   #88
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Depends on your definition of a "hit." Someone who dislikes the movie would probably have a different definition than one who like it, and vice versa.

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Old 08-09-2013, 11:24 PM   #89
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Depends on your definition of a "hit." Someone who dislikes the movie would probably have a different definition than one who like it, and vice versa.
Thank you sir!

The chatter among the online crowd, genre fan sites, humor sites, ect does not equal what the mass audience thought.

Here are some ways the mass audience is WAY different from the genre fan audience. See if you agree or disagree.

1. The mass audience feels the same way about Spider-Man 3 as they do about THE DARK KNIGHT RISES. They made both films financial successes but at the end of the day most of the audience went "meh", and moved on with their lives.

2. The mass audience does feel that Ledger's Joker is what makes THE DARK KNIGHT stand out. None of them cares about Bruce's love life, his moral quandary ect. They cared about being entertained by the Joker's dark humor and pseudo philosophical ramblings. Despite Nolan's truly immense talent, most in the mass audience found everything else, sans possible the tumbler/batpod/truck flip sequence, to be quotidian at best.

3. The mass audience enjoyed the hell out of the last act of Avengers and had no complaints about it's length or lack of "character". If anything they will expect a similar climax for A2.

4. The box office of THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN had more to do with the "meh" response to SM3 than the quality of the actual film itself.

5. MAN OF STEEL's box office is indicative of how well Superman could do with the mass audience in a very competitive Summer market, and if the over seas marketing had been slightly better the final tally would have been higher than it already is. (And between VOD/Blu Ray/cable/syndication/merchandise the $ MOS is responsible for putting into WB's coffers is more than impressive enough to warrant a sequel.)

I know these are not popular opinions round here. But that's how I sees it. Ask your friends and family about these films (especially your older friends and family) and you will see a generally similar opinion I think.

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Old 08-10-2013, 12:46 AM   #90
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Thank you sir!

The chatter among the online crowd, genre fan sites, humor sites, ect does not equal what the mass audience thought.

Here are some ways the mass audience is WAY different from the genre fan audience. See if you agree or disagree.

1. The mass audience feels the same way about Spider-Man 3 as they do about THE DARK KNIGHT RISES. They made both films financial successes but at the end of the day most of the audience went "meh", and moved on with their lives.

2. The mass audience does feel that Ledger's Joker is what makes THE DARK KNIGHT stand out. None of them cares about Bruce's love life, his moral quandary ect. They cared about being entertained by the Joker's dark humor and pseudo philosophical ramblings. Despite Nolan's truly immense talent, most in the mass audience found everything else, sans possible the tumbler/batpod/truck flip sequence, to be quotidian at best.

3. The mass audience enjoyed the hell out of the last act of Avengers and had no complaints about it's length or lack of "character". If anything they will expect a similar climax for A2.

4. The box office of THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN had more to do with the "meh" response to SM3 than the quality of the actual film itself.

5. MAN OF STEEL's box office is indicative of how well Superman could do with the mass audience in a very competitive Summer market, and if the over seas marketing had been slightly better the final tally would have been higher than it already is. (And between VOD/Blu Ray/cable/syndication/merchandise the $ MOS is responsible for putting into WB's coffers is more than impressive enough to warrant a sequel.)

I know these are not popular opinions round here. But that's how I sees it. Ask your friends and family about these films (especially your older friends and family) and you will see a generally similar opinion I think.
1. Not sure
2. yes
3. yes
4 I think the box office had more to do with the fact that it was a reboot to a very successful, relatively new series. I think Spiderman 4 would have done better.
5. I think MOS's opening weekend showed that the mass audience was definitely still interested in Superman despite Returns but did not love it enough to recommend it strongly to those who were on the fence about watching it. Also I think your point here kind of contradicts your point 4. If you thought ASM suffered boxofficewise because of Spiderman 3, then why didn't MOS suffer boxofficewise from Returns meh response? Except it's opening weekend indicates that Returns didn't affect it much if at all. ASM also did much better worldwide than MOS.

But how do you gauge mass audience response anyways, if not from online?

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Old 08-10-2013, 12:48 AM   #91
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I'm inclined to think it did kind of flop with audiences with those 60% drops. People can quote online ratings and surveys for MOS and all, but yes, the money talks and is way more indicative to me of how audiences felt about MOS. It really coasted off it's opening weekend for it's overall good boxoffice.
Thats a valid point but I truly believe that the heavy competition contributed to the decline over the course of MOS's run as much as the controversy around it did.
To be honest the competition over the summer is getting out of hand with big budget movies flopping left and right (several box office articles have been written about this) so now that I think about it, superman/batman can take a big hit if it's released within a striking distance of movies like finding dory or star wars, hope WB will be abit smarter with their release date.

There isn't any definitive way of gauging how audiences feel about a film but online response can be a pretty good gauge IF the proper online source is referred to, so rather than fan specific sites one should look into RT users' ratings and IMDB as these sites have a large number of voters who happen to be more casual than the regular fanboy/girl. Although these sites are also frequented by movie buffs who don't necessarly represent the average joe/jane who just happen to go to the movies when they feel like it.


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Old 08-10-2013, 03:43 AM   #92
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1. Not sure
2. yes
3. yes
4 I think the box office had more to do with the fact that it was a reboot to a very successful, relatively new series. I think Spiderman 4 would have done better.
5. I think MOS's opening weekend showed that the mass audience was definitely still interested in Superman despite Returns but did not love it enough to recommend it strongly to those who were on the fence about watching it. Also I think your point here kind of contradicts your point 4. If you thought ASM suffered boxofficewise because of Spiderman 3, then why didn't MOS suffer boxofficewise from Returns meh response? Except it's opening weekend indicates that Returns didn't affect it much if at all. ASM also did much better worldwide than MOS.

But how do you gauge mass audience response anyways, if not from online?
Don't ever confuse what is get's passed around as popular opinion online as somehow reflective of the majority of the actual population. Otherwise we end up with SNAKES ON A PLANE.... Just saying.

The hard truth is that most people that go to see films in theatre or purchase them to own or rent them do not go to any kind of site on the web and give their opinion on it. If that were true the opinions I've solicited from many a person on TDKR would be different than what I read here, which on a good day could be called "divisive". In the real world? Nobody cared either way. No one cared enough to hate, and no one cared enough to praise. (Speaking in WAY over the top generalities of course, but really, ask your own, non genre fan friends and family. I suspect the answer will be the same. Not disdain, but not the praise TDK got either, and most of that praise will go to Ledger's Joker.) The money TDKR made was from the mass audience that was waiting for the follow up to TDK. But again, it not being TDK did not translate into hate (because the things that WE in the genre fan community fight and argue about matters not to the mass audience) it translated to indifference. As did SM3.

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Old 08-11-2013, 12:06 AM   #93
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Don't ever confuse what is get's passed around as popular opinion online as somehow reflective of the majority of the actual population. Otherwise we end up with SNAKES ON A PLANE.... Just saying.

The hard truth is that most people that go to see films in theatre or purchase them to own or rent them do not go to any kind of site on the web and give their opinion on it. If that were true the opinions I've solicited from many a person on TDKR would be different than what I read here, which on a good day could be called "divisive". In the real world? Nobody cared either way. No one cared enough to hate, and no one cared enough to praise. (Speaking in WAY over the top generalities of course, but really, ask your own, non genre fan friends and family. I suspect the answer will be the same. Not disdain, but not the praise TDK got either, and most of that praise will go to Ledger's Joker.) The money TDKR made was from the mass audience that was waiting for the follow up to TDK. But again, it not being TDK did not translate into hate (because the things that WE in the genre fan community fight and argue about matters not to the mass audience) it translated to indifference. As did SM3.
I fail to see how one's family and friends are indicative of mass audience response. If anything, it is even less indicative than online response. I mean friends and family are what, 30 people? If you have a big family and are hugely popular, 50-100? Plus friends and family are more likely to share your interests and likes and dislikes more than the general random public. That is why people who love the movie always tend to say everyone they saw it with also loved it while people who hate a move will state similar hate from those they watched it with.

But ok, if my friends and family are a good gauge of mass audience response to movies, then TDKR was awesome and one of the best Batman movies ever, Spiderman 3 really was pretty meh, and MOS was absolutely horrid. Also Superman Returns was pretty good! And everyone I know skipped ASM because it was a reboot to a successful new series and that annoyed them. That's actually why I skipped ASM myself. I am the only one I know out of my friends and family who was supremely bored by Returns and liked anything about MOS.

A more accurate way of gauging mass audience response would be to force everyone to take a survey, asking them specific questions about why or why they didn't like a movie, why or why they didn't go watch a movie, etc. Neither friends and family nor online response is going to be an accurate indication of what the mass audience thought about a movie. However, I do think box office drops are a fairly good indication of WOM, though it cannot tell us why people liked or disliked a movie.


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Old 08-11-2013, 12:41 AM   #94
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Snyder and Bay are similar...
I find that hard to believe. If Michael Bay had directed this film, it would have been filled with so many retarded characters and we would have gotten a more shallow version of Lois while probably having Superman sleep around with several women during his wandering years.

Not to mention that at least Snyder tried to give something great with substance; Bay has no substance as a storyteller, let alone his films for that matter, and he's somewhat very hard to work with on set as well.

Honestly, for all of the flaws that MOS has, it's still the best attempt that we've seen thus far at making a Superman film. I can't even think of that many directors at the moment that could have done a better job with the right mindset at the moment since I haven't seen any director that has really shown an sincere interest in wanting to do a superman film for the right reasons, let alone one that has the skills to do so as well.

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Old 08-11-2013, 01:09 AM   #95
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Before you blow your lid calm down. I know this movie is gonna have a killer opening weekend. That's a given. I'm sure the trailers are gonna be amazing and I'm sure the anticipation is gonne be off the charts.

But let's say the movie doesn't go over well. Let's say it's deemed a critical failure. Not a mixed reaction, I'm talkin a legit NEGATIVE response. Critics slam the s*** out of it, fans walk away feeling bored and empty, the movie doesn't deliver on expectations, the movie feels sloppy... let's say the movie is just an absolute flop. What happens from there? What does WB/DC do? What's the gameplan?


edit: Do they just take a few years off and send a limo full of world class hookers to Christopher Nolan's and Christian Bale's doorstep all holding bags of money and an offer in writing that gives him part ownership in the studio?
There are two factors that play a part into whether or not a film gets a sequel: the GA's opinion and the box office. What fans and critics think will mean zero as long as the GA will like it. The fans and the critics are only a small minority when compared to GA. If the GA likes it, WB will proceed with JL and whatever other films they have planned. As for the box office, this film will make a lot of money regardless of the quality simply due to Batman and Superman being together on the big screen.

Also, there is no way Nolan's Batman would be coming back. WB won't introduce a new version of Batman on the big screen only to go back to an older version after that film. What will most likely happen if this film flops in every single way imaginable is that we won't get any DC films for a long time.

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Old 08-11-2013, 10:39 AM   #96
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Then Malaka will say it was because they didn't cast Bomer.
I'm sure if Bomer is cast, lots of people would like to see it
But if Bomer is cast and it's a flop, I would be very disappointed.
I'd start to think : maybe they should stop to create their superheroes movies.

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That gives me a raging Bomer.
Raging...Bomer?

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Old 08-11-2013, 12:24 PM   #97
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bomer or bloom may not make it flop, but either would sure take alot of the steam out of the fans. you could prolly kiss a billion goodbye with either in the role.

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Old 08-11-2013, 01:04 PM   #98
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No, this movie WILL make over a billion dollars easily, regardless of who is in the role.

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Old 08-11-2013, 08:50 PM   #99
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Default Re: What if it flops?

I do worry if this movie will be successful especially with Snyder and Goyer writing it.
I do think there were flaws in MOS which prevented it from making 300+ easily, but it was still a successful movie. I have felt for a long time that all MOS had to beat was SR, not Avengers not IM2 or IM3.

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Old 08-11-2013, 08:53 PM   #100
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It has Batman and Superman in the same live action movie for the first time ever. Even if it is Uwe Boll levels of bad, it will still make a mint at the box office.

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