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Old 11-24-2013, 10:25 AM   #1
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Post How can the Winter Soldier's fate determine Joss Whedon's Kill in Avengers 2

With Age of Ultron set for May 1 in 2015, Captain America the Winter Soldier is the next upcoming Marvel Cinematic film followed by Guardians of the Galaxy. If anyone is still wondering which Avenger Joss Whedon is intending to make Ultron kill, this article will shed some light for clues on who it will or maybe be depending on the fate of Bucky Barnes/the Winter Soldier.




Now if anyone has read the Captain America comics, you would noticed that Steven Rogers the original Captain America has been killed in one of the stand alones and after his death, his friend Bucky Barnes the Winter Soldier took over the mantle as the new Captain America.



So if Winter Soldier survives in the Captain America sequel, he would return in Avengers Age of Ultron, he at the end of the film would become the new Captain America just in case Ultron kills Steven Roger. After all without Captain America, how would the Avengers know what to do in battle? Plus Sebastian Stan was mentioned to appear in 6 more Marvel films after Captain America the First Avenger so if Bucky does survive in Captain America the Winter Soldier, he will indeed return for Age of Ultron taking Steven Rogers' place as the next Captain America, clearing his name of the wrongs he was manipulated on doing, and helping the Avengers take on Thanos and other kinds of threats.




But if Winter Soldier does not survive in the next movie, then Joss Whedon maybe intended on having Ultron assassinate the Black Widow. After all Whedon was talking big on Scarlett Johannson's role in the Avengers sequel that her role would be significant meaning that the movie has her as the main character, that she would do something big to save the day, or be the Avenger for Ultron to kill off.

So as you can see that Captain America (Steven Rogers) and Black Widow are so far the most speculated choices that Joss Whedon is intending to kill because with Robert Downey Jr. signed on for the third Avengers movie, Chris Hemsworth for the next Thor movie, Hulk getting a sequel sometime during MCU Phase Three which is also to feature more of Hawkeye, and with Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver joining the team as its youngest members, who else would Whedon choose to sacrifice from the MCU?


So with Steve Rogers and Black Widow as the two specified targets and victims for Ultron, the question to which of them it will be is in the hands of the Winter Soldier's fate in Captain America the Winter Soldier

To find out, stay tuned for the movie when it hits theaters April 4th 2014.

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Old 11-24-2013, 10:54 AM   #2
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Default Re: How can the Winter Soldier's fate determine Joss Whedon's Kill in Avengers 2

No.

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Old 11-24-2013, 12:03 PM   #3
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Default Re: How can the Winter Soldier's fate determine Joss Whedon's Kill in Avengers 2

If Marvel Studios is truly willing to go to risky extremes to keep things fresh, I can see them doing this. Especially if any complications arise with Evan's contract, then they have one hell of a back up. (Not that I think there will be any, I'd like to believe the negotiations are done by now and the cast is excited to at least do AoU.)

Can I get a source for this "more of Hawkeye" claim?

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Old 11-24-2013, 12:30 PM   #4
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Default Re: How can the Winter Soldier's fate determine Joss Whedon's Kill in Avengers 2

Joss "Mr. Strong female hero" Whedon is not going to kill the only female superhero. Take Black Widow off your list.

They aren't going to kill off Steve Rogers for long. If they do Fallen son in Avengers 2, they'll do Return of Captain America in Captain America 3. Reason being, they're not going to waste any of Chris Evans' 6 film contract, and they will give them option renew it, which we simply cannot tell one way or another right now. So Evans will be Steve Rogers in Cap 3 and Avengers 3. How that will happen remains to be seen, but you'll see Evans every film in a major way.

Hawkeye will have a bigger role in Avengers 2, but not necessarily in Phase 3. Avengers 2 might very well be his last. Thor is as revivable as Cap, moreso, so he's on the table.

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Old 11-24-2013, 06:53 PM   #5
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Default Re: How can the Winter Soldier's fate determine Joss Whedon's Kill in Avengers 2

Chris Evans is contracted for three more films. They will be Avengers 2, Cap 3, and Avengers 3. He can die at the end of Avengers 3, and then be replaced by the Winter Soldier. The person to die in Avengers 2 is Iron Man, who will then return to life in Avengers 3.

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Old 11-24-2013, 08:56 PM   #6
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Default Re: How can the Winter Soldier's fate determine Joss Whedon's Kill in Avengers 2

What is everyone's obsession with people dying in A2? The stakes can be high without anyone dying.

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Old 11-25-2013, 12:14 AM   #7
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Default Re: How can the Winter Soldier's fate determine Joss Whedon's Kill in Avengers 2

Someone died in A1, so to raise the stakes, someone more important has to die!

This is not actually true, there are other ways to raise the stakes, but they all involve permanent damage. Death, funny enough, isn't all that permanent for half these characters.

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Old 11-26-2013, 09:41 AM   #8
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Default Re: How can the Winter Soldier's fate determine Joss Whedon's Kill in Avengers 2

Joss Whedon kills characters.... Thats what he does.

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Old 11-26-2013, 07:44 PM   #9
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Default Re: How can the Winter Soldier's fate determine Joss Whedon's Kill in Avengers 2

Except for when he doesn't. Honestly, having tracked back and watched more Whedon, he doesn't kill people *that* often, and he brings them back regularly too. I think the reputation just comes from that, when he does kill someone off, he does his best to make sure it hurts.

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Old 11-30-2013, 11:13 PM   #10
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Default Re: How can the Winter Soldier's fate determine Joss Whedon's Kill in Avengers 2

I really don't think that Black Widow is going to bite it after how hard Whedon fought to get her in Avengers 1.

Chris Evans is still under contract for Avengers 3.

Thor 2 had that cliffhanger. Marvel won't leave that hanging.

Iron Man is coming back for Avengers 3.

I mean, I guess that Hulk could die but there are still Hulk stories left to tell, Hulk forms to be used and we still don't know what happened to The Leader.

Hawkeye was never really all the developed. He's an Avenger who lacked a decent solo series until recently and his roles in Thor and A1 were tiny. He and Quicksilver are the most expendable. In Quicksilver's case, it's because Fox has their own version of the character and he's had his most iconic storylines with the X-Men and X-Factor. He's mostly a way to bring Scarlet Witch onto the team and she's always been a very integral part of the Avengers while Quicksilver and Polaris simply haven't.

tl;dr, Quicksolver and Hawkeye are the most expendable.

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Old 11-30-2013, 11:41 PM   #11
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Default Re: How can the Winter Soldier's fate determine Joss Whedon's Kill in Avengers 2

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So as you can see that Captain America (Steven Rogers) and Black Widow are so far the most speculated choices that Joss Whedon is intending to kill because with Robert Downey Jr. signed on for the third Avengers movie, Chris Hemsworth for the next Thor movie, Hulk getting a sequel sometime during MCU Phase Three which is also to feature more of Hawkeye, and with Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver joining the team as its youngest members, who else would Whedon choose to sacrifice from the MCU?
Just because these actors are signed for more movies, you don't think their characters can die? Any one of them could be killed by Ultron and still fulfill their quota of future films in flashbacks, dream sequences, cameos, zombiedom, or in the ever-popular homage to the old Marvel Comics adage, "Nobody stays dead in the Marvel U except Uncle Ben." (Or its new counterpart: "Tahiti is a magical place.")

I dunno if Joss intends to kill any major character in AOU, but my money is on Tony Stark. His long absence in Phase 3 until Avengers 3 could point to an apparent "death." Plus, the teaser to AOU shows Iron Man's armor going through an extremely painful-looking process of being ripped apart and replaced by Ultron. If that image is meant to be taken literally, and Tony is supposed to be in that armor when it happens, you can kiss his ass goodbye.

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Old 12-01-2013, 03:58 AM   #12
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Default Re: How can the Winter Soldier's fate determine Joss Whedon's Kill in Avengers 2

I find it hard to believe that Disney, which paid $4 billion for Marvel and has seen the studio blow up into a reliable blockbuster factory, is going to allow any major character to be killed off. Whedon is more than welcome to slaughter his own intellectual property, but he won't have carte blanche with Disney's billion-dollar babies. All of the characters are parts of other franchises or have the potential to be in the future. Killing them kills off their story potential and Disney's profit potential along with them.

And really, Whedon shouldn't have to kill anyone off, no matter how stressed not killing makes him. Any writer worth his salt should be able to raise the stakes to an unbearable level without actually killing off a central character.

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Old 12-01-2013, 08:54 AM   #13
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Default Re: How can the Winter Soldier's fate determine Joss Whedon's Kill in Avengers 2

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I find it hard to believe that Disney, which paid $4 billion for Marvel and has seen the studio blow up into a reliable blockbuster factory, is going to allow any major character to be killed off. Whedon is more than welcome to slaughter his own intellectual property, but he won't have carte blanche with Disney's billion-dollar babies. All of the characters are parts of other franchises or have the potential to be in the future. Killing them kills off their story potential and Disney's profit potential along with them.

And really, Whedon shouldn't have to kill anyone off, no matter how stressed not killing makes him. Any writer worth his salt should be able to raise the stakes to an unbearable level without actually killing off a central character.
True. The "death that isn't really a death" has become so expected that it's cliche, so even if Joss *does* want to kill a major player, it's going to lack any kind of emotional impact whatsoever. The audience knows full well that the character, whoever that may be, will eventually return. Unless he's named Uncle Ben.

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Old 12-01-2013, 09:43 AM   #14
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Default Re: How can the Winter Soldier's fate determine Joss Whedon's Kill in Avengers 2

Hawkeye is the most likely, but I don't think anyone is going to bite it in Avengers 2.

I bet Joss is seriously considering killing Iron Man in the third though, doing what should have happened with Han Solo in Jedi.

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Old 12-01-2013, 05:09 PM   #15
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Default Re: How can the Winter Soldier's fate determine Joss Whedon's Kill in Avengers 2

Killing off Hawkeye would make no sense precisely BECAUSE he's by far the least developed. It wouldn't have the same impact and it would be too obvious. So I doubt that Whedon will do that. It'd also be a waste of Jeremy Renner. I think that if anyone dies, it will be one of the supporting characters. Nick Fury is most likely in my opinion. it would also allow Maria Hill to become Director of SHIELD and make all of the hero's lives miserable.

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Old 12-01-2013, 07:24 PM   #16
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Default Re: How can the Winter Soldier's fate determine Joss Whedon's Kill in Avengers 2

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I find it hard to believe that Disney, which paid $4 billion for Marvel and has seen the studio blow up into a reliable blockbuster factory, is going to allow any major character to be killed off. Whedon is more than welcome to slaughter his own intellectual property, but he won't have carte blanche with Disney's billion-dollar babies. All of the characters are parts of other franchises or have the potential to be in the future. Killing them kills off their story potential and Disney's profit potential along with them.

And really, Whedon shouldn't have to kill anyone off, no matter how stressed not killing makes him. Any writer worth his salt should be able to raise the stakes to an unbearable level without actually killing off a central character.
Disney killed Jack Sparrow in Dead Man's Chest, then brought him back to life in the next film. Both movies made a billion.

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Old 12-03-2013, 03:05 AM   #17
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Default Re: How can the Winter Soldier's fate determine Joss Whedon's Kill in Avengers 2

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Hawkeye is the most likely, but I don't think anyone is going to bite it in Avengers 2.

I bet Joss is seriously considering killing Iron Man in the third though, doing what should have happened with Han Solo in Jedi.
Tony Stark uses a modified version of extremis to gain his technopathic abilities. In the final battle with Ultron he tries to mentally hacks Ultron to temporarily disable him. Ultron back hacks him and corrupts his mind sending him into a coma. The team takes that moment to destroy Ultron. At the end of the movie we are left with a near brain dead Tony. All they have to do is do a reboot his brain story line sub plot to bring him back later in a future Captain America movie.



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Old 12-03-2013, 04:04 AM   #18
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Default Re: How can the Winter Soldier's fate determine Joss Whedon's Kill in Avengers 2

I don't know why people keep saying the widow is getting killed off. It's not gonna happen anytime soon.

If anyone will be killed off it'll be nick fury

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Old 12-03-2013, 04:11 AM   #19
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Default Re: How can the Winter Soldier's fate determine Joss Whedon's Kill in Avengers 2

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Someone died in A1, so to raise the stakes, someone more important has to die!
None of the team members died in the first "Avengers" film. Coulson got stabbed, but he's running his own SHIELD group now.

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