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Old 08-09-2013, 08:36 PM   #1
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Old 08-09-2013, 08:36 PM   #2
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Default All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion

Someone had to make it sooner or later.

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Old 08-09-2013, 08:36 PM   #3
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:funny:...

Ask Chris #159: The Superman/Batman Movie Will Continue Until Morale Improves

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Old 08-09-2013, 08:51 PM   #4
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The thing is, despite them not being a studio made for making comic book films, that still doesn't give them an excuse for not being as competent.
Actually yes, yes it does.

It actually gives them a perfect excuse and a perfectly reasonable explanation for such a phenomenon.

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They've had these properties for over 30 years. In that time, had they played their cards right, planned accordingly, and I don't mean they needed to release two comic book films a year, Marvel would be the ones trying to play catch up.
What’s your point, exactly? The film market doesn't exactly bear out that these properties would always have been received as successes, as far back as the 70's and 80's, and hindsight is 20/20 after all. Superhero films have not really enjoyed the type of consistent, blockbuster, massive success that we’re seeing in the last two or three years.

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Now not to take away what they have accomplished. But in terms of diversity and successes, compared to Marvel, there hasn't been as much.
I guess it depends on how you measure success, though.

If we're only counting movies that a majority of comic fans consider "good", since 2005, WB has put out:

WATCHMEN, V FOR VENDETTA, SUPERMAN RETURNS. Three acclaimed Batman films. MAN OF STEEL. That's not including GREEN LANTERN and JONAH HEX.

Whereas to date, Marvel has THE INCREDIBLE HULK, three IRON MAN films, CAPTAIN AMERICA, THOR and THE AVENGERS.

I'd say WB's offerings are more diverse overall. Because after all, Marvel only makes "superhero" movies, at least thus far, and they've thus far, all been geared toward building toward THE AVENGERS.

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The counter-point to this argument is that WB isn't in the market just to make super-hero flicks, so complaining that they don't have a concise business plan is stupid.
Here’s the thing.

This whole “WB doesn’t have a plan” thing is an assumption. This is an assumption from fans, based on hearsay.

There is absolutely nothing concrete to suggest that WB does not have a plan, or, even better, multiple options (backup plans). They'd be idiots if they didn't.

The people inside WB have said what WB is saying. They would like to make those movies. They’re working on it. They haven’t said exactly how they’re going to approach it, and that is their right in a business environment.

Marvel, beyond talking about properties it wanted to adapt, didn’t tip its hand, either, until it was more or less ready to go into production.

That is how movies are made. Even Marvel Studios, for each of its films, took something like a decade to get them off the ground or develop.

WB is arguably about a half decade behind with regard to the superhero craze. Marvel is ahead because it is ONLY devoted to that craze.

It’s not rocket science.

Making a $200 million dollar film isn’t easy. It’s not impossible, but it takes immense resources, even just to develop a film.

This is what is lost on people, and its endlessly annoying to hear fans whining over and over again about the "failure" in an industry they don't understand the workings of.

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Old 08-09-2013, 08:55 PM   #5
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 1

Guardians of the Galaxy isn't really a superhero movie. It's more like a Star Wars-esque sci-fi epic. SR didn't succeed (hence why we got MOS), Jonah Hex and GL were flops. ALL of the MS films have been critically and commercially successful

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Old 08-09-2013, 09:12 PM   #6
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 1

Its debatable. And Guardians of the Galaxy hasn't come out yet, either.

Like I said, depends on what your definition of success is. I've never really believed that something being popular with critics and audiences inherently has all that much to do with the quality of the film itself.

I care only that superhero films make enough money to warrant more of them.

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Old 08-10-2013, 02:34 AM   #7
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 1

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Yeah, if he has plans where that type of money would be helpful, sure. But, it sounds like the author is trying to make something out of nothing based on that book summary.

This doesn't seem to be a dilemma unless Bale is somehow really worried about no longer being some type of box office draw or something. Based on his films lately, I don't think so.
I totally agree with you

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Old 08-10-2013, 12:11 PM   #8
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I totally agree with you
Well, it looks like El Mayimbe was just looking for hits by making it sound like the author was saying he got offered that type of money...

http://batman-news.com/2013/08/09/ch...n-vs-superman/

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"
He’s much more of a working class superhero, which is why we ended the whole book with the image of a laboring Superman. He’s Everyman operating on a sci–fi Paul Bunyan scale." - Grant Morrison

"Self Portrait" By Batman
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Old 08-10-2013, 12:25 PM   #9
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 1

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Well, it looks like El Mayimbe was just looking for hits by making it sound like the author was saying he got offered that type of money...

http://batman-news.com/2013/08/09/ch...n-vs-superman/
I think everything he says is for hits lol

He lost my respect with the way he went about that Wonder Wan fan film acting like it was something major just to get people to subscribe to his mailing list.

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Old 08-10-2013, 01:36 PM   #10
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 1

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I think everything he says is for hits lol

He lost my respect with the way he went about that Wonder Wan fan film acting like it was something major just to get people to subscribe to his mailing list.
I had just been starting to pay attention to him right before that. That little screw up certainly made me stop giving a damn about what he had to say.

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Old 08-10-2013, 01:46 PM   #11
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 1

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I think everything he says is for hits lol

He lost my respect with the way he went about that Wonder Wan fan film acting like it was something major just to get people to subscribe to his mailing list.
I didn't have any opinion of him before, but now I find him amusing after that video he did about DC films on a rooftop or where it was. The WW thing was hilarious, especially after how bad that short looked to me.

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I was at some diplomatic party once. Got to talking to this princess who told me that when it came to Superman, I was missing the point. She told me, "His real strength lay in his generous spirit and sense of what's fair." - King Faraday

"
He’s much more of a working class superhero, which is why we ended the whole book with the image of a laboring Superman. He’s Everyman operating on a sci–fi Paul Bunyan scale." - Grant Morrison

"Self Portrait" By Batman
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Old 08-11-2013, 01:28 AM   #12
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 1

Do we think Snyder will drop the shaky cam?

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Old 08-11-2013, 01:35 AM   #13
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 1

lets hope so. it doesnt make the movie realistic since when humans walk and stand next to people they dont shake up down left right. it was an interesting experiement in MOS

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Old 08-11-2013, 01:48 AM   #14
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 1

I only noticed what people called shaky cam when I saw MOS in a regular 2D showing. I saw it 6 times in theatres (and bought 8 tickets. I DID MY PART DAMNNIT!!) and most of those were digital 2D shows. It was glorious in digital.

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Old 08-11-2013, 01:54 AM   #15
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 1

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Do we think Snyder will drop the shaky cam?
I REALLY hope so.

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Old 08-11-2013, 02:51 AM   #16
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 1

I have heard they want an older Batman and got to say I think it's remarkably stupid, in this universe everyone should be starting up not have rookie Superman vs Veteran Batman. Besides it dampens that great rivalry they have some old guy not only trying to compete with a younger guy but a younger guy with Super powers. Mehhhhh do not want is all I can say if that's the case, just WB and Goyer/Snyder ****ing up again.

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Old 08-11-2013, 03:31 AM   #17
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 1

i think an older batman is good. batman works best when he is older.

but i understand the problem. fans like to be superheroes. a lot of them are young. so batman should be young. hahaha

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Old 08-11-2013, 03:51 AM   #18
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 1

I loved the handheld camera work in MoS. But yeah, I don't think it will be as fitting for this project.

And the use of that technique is not about making it more realistic because of "a realistic way of moving the camera". It is to invoke different feelings – like for example in this case: intimacy and immediacy – depending on how and where it is used. Like the handheld camera also worked wonderfully on the calmer moments in MoS. Beautifully framed – bringing a dreamy and surging feel.

I don't and will never get why handheld, single camera and such are so generally disliked everywhere I go. Would be so boring if every film was all clinical and stylized. I like more than one way of doing things. I'm a fan of all approaches as long as they fit and are well executed. Which it was in MoS imo!

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Old 08-11-2013, 04:01 AM   #19
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Honestly I think he'd work best as a younger Batman while still being a pro. We can have a Batman that still hasn't found any kind of peace in himself. I want someone angrier, more raw and brutal. Doing things like breaking bones in combat at times, because he's using the suit as an outlet for his emotions. Still seeing Joe Chill in the face of every thug he beats down and things like that, because the wound is fresh.

I mean we should be terrified, not truly knowing if Batman will take that step and kill the criminals he encounters. You can't have something like that with an older Batman who is more set in his morals. We already know what he'll do. I think that an older and more established Batman would have gotten through that pain. Of course that tragedy has always lingered with Batman, no matter the age; however, I just feel the pain would be stronger in a younger version. And that gives Superman a chance to help him along the way too.

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Old 08-11-2013, 04:07 AM   #20
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 1

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Honestly I think he'd work best as a younger Batman while still being a pro. We can have a Batman that still hasn't found any kind of peace in himself. I want someone angrier, more raw and brutal. Doing things like breaking bones in combat at times, because he's using the suit as an outlet for his emotions. Still seeing Joe Chill in the face of every thug he beats down and things like that, because the wound is fresh.

I think that an older and more established Batman would have gotten through that pain. Of course that tragedy has always lingered with Batman, no matter the age; however, I just feel the pain would be stronger in a younger version.

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Old 08-11-2013, 04:11 AM   #21
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lol, I added a few things before I refreshed the page. Had to be more clear.

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Old 08-11-2013, 04:12 AM   #22
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lol, I added a few things before I refreshed the page. Had to be more clear.
You didn't have to. I think I got the memo. You want him young.

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Old 08-11-2013, 04:14 AM   #23
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 1

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Honestly I think he'd work best as a younger Batman while still being a pro. We can have a Batman that still hasn't found any kind of peace in himself. I want someone angrier, more raw and brutal. Doing things like breaking bones in combat at times, because he's using the suit as an outlet for his emotions. Still seeing Joe Chill in the face of every thug he beats down and things like that, because the wound is fresh.

I mean we should be terrified, not truly knowing if Batman will take that step and kill the criminals he encounters. You can't have something like that with an older Batman who is more set in his morals. We already know what he'll do. I think that an older and more established Batman would have gotten through that pain. Of course that tragedy has always lingered with Batman, no matter the age; however, I just feel the pain would be stronger in a younger version.

I love BB but I am sorry, Bale's Batman does come off as a somewhat "undercooked" Batman, if you will. In the comics we have a character that has spent close to 2 decades preparing body, mind and spirit into something that can be a living weapon in his war on crime. It's not the sense I get from Bale/Nolan's realistic take. If Batman is cast as young, but we get the sense of the Bruce that made an oath to war on crime and corruption from child hood, then he is already a well prepared superhero. That kind of Batman can be a vexing problem for Superman or an incredible ally.

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Old 08-11-2013, 04:22 AM   #24
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You didn't have to. I think I got the memo. You want him young.




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I love BB but I am sorry, Bale's Batman does come off as a somewhat "undercooked" Batman, if you will. In the comics we have a character that has spent close to 2 decades preparing body, mind and spirit into something that can be a living weapon in his war on crime. It's not the sense I get from Bale/Nolan's realistic take. If Batman is cast as young, but we get the sense of the Bruce that made an oath to war on crime and corruption from child hood, then he is already a well prepared superhero. That kind of Batman can be a vexing problem for Superman or an incredible ally.
Yeah, I agree with everything.

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Old 08-11-2013, 04:25 AM   #25
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^(Dr. Clayton Forrester and Larry voice) .... Thank you!

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