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Old 08-11-2013, 05:25 PM   #26
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I love BB but I am sorry, Bale's Batman does come off as a somewhat "undercooked" Batman, if you will. In the comics we have a character that has spent close to 2 decades preparing body, mind and spirit into something that can be a living weapon in his war on crime. It's not the sense I get from Bale/Nolan's realistic take. If Batman is cast as young, but we get the sense of the Bruce that made an oath to war on crime and corruption from child hood, then he is already a well prepared superhero. That kind of Batman can be a vexing problem for Superman or an incredible ally.
Agreed. It might be interesting to see a more brutal Batman as well.

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Old 08-11-2013, 05:54 PM   #27
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I love BB but I am sorry, Bale's Batman does come off as a somewhat "undercooked" Batman, if you will. In the comics we have a character that has spent close to 2 decades preparing body, mind and spirit into something that can be a living weapon in his war on crime. It's not the sense I get from Bale/Nolan's realistic take. If Batman is cast as young, but we get the sense of the Bruce that made an oath to war on crime and corruption from child hood, then he is already a well prepared superhero. That kind of Batman can be a vexing problem for Superman or an incredible ally.

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Old 08-11-2013, 07:17 PM   #28
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 1

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Agreed. It might be interesting to see a more brutal Batman as well.
I want non-deadly strangleholds and occasional crunching bones. Does that make me bloodthirsty?

A nonlethal variant of the opening brawl in Casino Royale would suffice. PG-13 can get pretty hardcore, just without the red stuff flowing around.

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Old 08-11-2013, 08:15 PM   #29
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Really, cause I saw Bale's Bruce put himself through hell in order to prepare. Nolan's Batman wasn't Batgod, he couldn't do EVERYTHING himself and wasn't prepared for EVERY situation, which is kind of refreshing. He was no fool, but still needed help.

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Old 08-11-2013, 08:54 PM   #30
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Old 08-11-2013, 09:40 PM   #31
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 1

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Really, cause I saw Bale's Bruce put himself through hell in order to prepare. Nolan's Batman wasn't Batgod, he couldn't do EVERYTHING himself and wasn't prepared for EVERY situation, which is kind of refreshing. He was no fool, but still needed help.
I love Batman, but his "gadget for every situation and his knowledge of all things" sometimes pushes him too far into the Marty Stu area for my comfort. Sometimes I roll my eyes at how ridiculous his character is.

Characters are more interesting if they need to find help from the outside, than if they can do everything on their own.

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Old 08-11-2013, 09:58 PM   #32
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True, and it's not like Nolan's Batman was an idiot, he wasn't. He just couldn't be a brilliant detective/martial artists, and build the Batmobile/Batpod/Batwing from scratch, and instantly whip up antidotes to neurotoxins, etc. He was also smart enough to seek out the right people to help him.

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Old 08-11-2013, 10:12 PM   #33
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 1

I always saw BB and TDK as the story of how Bruce went from a rookie Batman to the Batman that we all know and love. BB was about him putting the suit on, TDK was about him getting into the Batman mindset.

Then TDKR came along, and it didn't even feel like the same character from the first two films to me.

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Old 08-11-2013, 10:14 PM   #34
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True, and it's not like Nolan's Batman was an idiot, he wasn't. He just couldn't be a brilliant detective/martial artists, and build the Batmobile/Batpod/Batwing from scratch, and instantly whip up antidotes to neurotoxins, etc. He was also smart enough to seek out the right people to help him.
How dare they make him be more like a human!

Does anyone besides me find the Bat Cave, and all the bat stuff in general, just hilarious? I mean, I love Batman, but dude has issues.

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Old 08-12-2013, 12:38 AM   #35
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 1

I just think that if you give the audience a sense of Bruce having trained from an early age, as opposed to the Bale version where we see him starting out later in life, it makes him already "experienced" enough to be a real pain in the ass to Superman.
(Before anyone says "But we don't see Bale's Batman before he comes home from Princeton. He could have been training since he was a boy." My answer is just that. We didn't see it. It could have happened but it would be total conjecture.)

As for myself, I too tire of "Bat-God". My own head canon is "The BatMaster". He is a master for sure, of many disciplines. But he is still a man. Bat fans often always point out that one of the greatest things about Batman is his "realness", mortality and grounded nature. BatGod is the opposite of all that, yet the same fans often eat up that interpretation. Cognitive dissonance?

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Old 08-12-2013, 01:37 AM   #36
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 1

I just want to see a fighting style that doesn't rely on 90% elbow strikes.

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Old 08-12-2013, 01:47 AM   #37
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I just want to see a fighting style that doesn't rely on 90% elbow strikes.

As a Filipino Martial Artist I resent that remark!!

Just joking. The Keysi fight choreography was not bad. It was mostly realistic (when guys weren't waiting around to be beat up by Bats ) And it had a brutal, finality if you will. Those blows at least appeared to be damned hurtful!! But then again, Nolan was going for something different that the usual fantasy fighting. Not too big a problem for me given the context, but I also want to see a Batman fighting more like he was shown to in the GOTHAM KNIGHT DTV. The Indian and Scarecrow stories in that are pretty indicative of how I'd like to see Batman fight.

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Old 08-12-2013, 01:51 AM   #38
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 1

Curious, what is the difference between Producer and Executive Producer? (ie Nolan's role)

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Old 08-12-2013, 02:02 AM   #39
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 1

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I just want to see a fighting style that doesn't rely on 90% elbow strikes.
I want to see him break a bone or two on camera. Sal Maroni breaking his ankles was cool and pretty graphic.

Batman doesn't kill, but he stops just short of killing the thugs he fights. They usually end up hospitalized.

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To me, Man of Steel just felt to me like Snyder and Goyer tried to make Superman look less, and simple next to Batman, like yeah Superman is good, he's cool, but not as interesting as Batman.
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Old 08-12-2013, 07:20 AM   #40
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 1

Can't see how people can be tired of the "bat god" if we haven't once seen him on the big screen. If anything is tired is the lack thereof. Besides there is nothing godly about him in (say) the arkham games.

I fear people paint to hyperbolic a picture of uber bats. The character is still very much human enough to encounter trouble from his entire rogues gallery issue to issue. The reason for me that the Bruce Wayne will never be able to be replaced by his various protege's (even his two sons) is as Amanda Waller said, "that magnificent mind of his" among other things.

All that being said, I think these producers would be hard pressed to stage this film with something too far removed from the master strategist. And I don't Snyder has it in him to not film good clear fight scenes. Looks like circumstance alone is going to give me what I want hahahahahaha.

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Old 08-12-2013, 07:28 AM   #41
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 1

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I want to see him break a bone or two on camera. Sal Maroni breaking his ankles was cool and pretty graphic.

Batman doesn't kill, but he stops just short of killing the thugs he fights. They usually end up hospitalized.
People also seem to forget that he uses an enemies gun on another enemies foot in every single of those three movies. Thats pretty hardcore.

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Old 08-12-2013, 09:03 AM   #42
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 1

Ahem....where ? I don't recall Batman doing that in TDKT.

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Old 08-12-2013, 09:11 AM   #43
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 1

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Curious, what is the difference between Producer and Executive Producer? (ie Nolan's role)
I believe Producers are more involved while Executive Producers may own rights, provide money, don't do much, etc.

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Old 08-12-2013, 10:52 AM   #44
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I believe Producers are more involved while Executive Producers may own rights, provide money, don't do much, etc.
Interesting. You'd think Executive Producers would have the most power. But considering Snyder went against Nolan saying no to Superman killing Zod, I don't think he really has much say at all.

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Old 08-12-2013, 10:57 AM   #45
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 1

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Ahem....where ? I don't recall Batman doing that in TDKT.
TDKR when fighting banes men on to roof with catwoman.
i think it was batman strategically aiming the gun at the enemies foot and the guy holding the gun squeezed the trigger.
it was batman intent for the guy to shoot, disarming the guy, not killing him.

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Old 08-12-2013, 11:12 AM   #46
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 1

He definitely does it in TDK (Hong Kong) and TDKR (Saving Blake) don't remember it in Begins though.

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Old 08-12-2013, 11:15 AM   #47
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I find the complaints about Batman not being a badass martial artist in the films kind of odd in context. There are two reasons why that is not surprising, and most people never mention them. One is that the vast majority of actors ARE NOT trained fighters. The second is the suit. Batman can be harmed by knives and gunfire, so having him wear an armored suit in the films makes more sense. Those suits are big and bulky, so the expect an actor to do a bunch of fancy martial artists moves is simply not practical. It can be hard to even move around in those suits, much less be Bruce Lee.

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Old 08-12-2013, 11:24 AM   #48
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 1

I think when they fight I would love to see a fight similar to how they fought in the injustice tournament except have superman win

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Old 08-12-2013, 11:45 AM   #49
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 1

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I find the complaints about Batman not being a badass martial artist in the films kind of odd in context. There are two reasons why that is not surprising, and most people never mention them. One is that the vast majority of actors ARE NOT trained fighters. The second is the suit. Batman can be harmed by knives and gunfire, so having him wear an armored suit in the films makes more sense. Those suits are big and bulky, so the expect an actor to do a bunch of fancy martial artists moves is simply not practical. It can be hard to even move around in those suits, much less be Bruce Lee.
Watchmen and even that 90's Ninja turtles begin to argue against both these points.

A few random things here,
-Stunt doubles and how much easier it is when you have a suit.
-I've seen bale do badass choreo in other film(s).
-Why is the suit so cumbersome in the first place, that puffy suit tradition has to go. Batman waring a suit makes sense for practicality, him waring that think rubber hockey suit is just a bad directorial decision imo. As poorly designed as the voice.

Something in the Rorschach direction of things with less savagery but with with an extreme change in disposition when the mask comes off would be swell. It would also be different.
At this point in time I think daniel craig in bond has been conveyed more capable than bruce wayne has been "shown" on screen(in almost every way). I think the fast furious drivers have in their way been shown more capable...It's just in the little things. I'm just looking forward to a change.

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Old 08-12-2013, 11:48 AM   #50
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 1

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I find the complaints about Batman not being a badass martial artist in the films kind of odd in context. There are two reasons why that is not surprising, and most people never mention them. One is that the vast majority of actors ARE NOT trained fighters. The second is the suit. Batman can be harmed by knives and gunfire, so having him wear an armored suit in the films makes more sense. Those suits are big and bulky, so the expect an actor to do a bunch of fancy martial artists moves is simply not practical. It can be hard to even move around in those suits, much less be Bruce Lee.
I find them odd because I don't understand why people want that. Batman in the Dark Knight trilogy is a very skilled, competent, and practical fighter. There's no need for over the top, hyper choreographed, wire-fu type stuff, and honestly I think it would be pretty out of character for him. Batman is a guy who gets stuff done, he doesn't **** around. I think his fighting style in those movies serviced the character and the story much better than anything super fancy.

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