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Old 08-15-2013, 08:21 PM   #1
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Default Spider-Man:Flagship Character to Red Flag Character

Here is an article someone wrote on comic book movie. I can't post the link but this is what it said:

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In the year of 1962, the world witnessed the birth of a timeless cult-classic comic-book character in the pages of Amazing Fantasy #15. In the year of 1962, the two brilliant minds of Stan Lee and Steve Ditko collaborated to create a fascinating character. In the year of 1962, the web-slinging hero known as Spider-Man was born. Spider-Man is a fictional hero in the Marvel Universe known all around the world and has had over 600 comics/graphic novels published, including villains he would overthrow by his might including Green Goblin, Doctor Octopus, Rhino, Electro, and Venom, ever since he was first created.

Spider-Man has become a fictional icon and a role model to younger readers that read his mythology. Spider-Man is also one of the most iconic super-heroes ever as he is paid much homage to in other media not affiliated with Marvel Comics. Spider-Man even became Marvel’s flagship character, always being in front of even the best Marvel characters such as Captain America, The Incredible Hulk, Wolverine, Fantastic Four, Iron Man, Thor, etc. But as the years passed, the friendly neighborhood hero has been changed from the hero we all know and love, into a very controversial character among his greatest fans. Most of you true-believers probably may know what I’m talking about and if you do, question yourself: Has Spider-Man transformed from a flagship character to a red flag character? If you’re undecided about this question, I encourage you to continue reading. For those who already have an answer, I’d still recommend you read this editorial.
Read more at http://www.**************.com/fansit...PlrAkceq4Zi.99

Throughout the years, Spider-Man hasn’t had the best story arcs or decisions in his comics. Some of them have been absolutely ridiculous such as Peter Parker transforming into a gigantic pregnant spider and also the unforgettable “Sins Past” story arc in which Norman Osborn aka Green Goblin and Gwen Stacy performed sexual activities with one another, giving birth to super-twins which later on went downhill. Another event occurs in “One More Day” when Peter Parker was selfish enough to sell the marriage of his wife Mary Jane’s soul to Mephisto for his Aunt to live from an injury. This didn’t exactly send the best message to children: When all else fails, sell a soul to the devil. Spider-Man is supposed to be a beacon of hope and is to show a young example to young children that look up to him as a role model. Gambling with the Devil isn’t a great example. This had to be the worst decision to do. Last but not least, one of the most notorious comic-book decisions in comic-book history, one of the most controversial events in the comic-book history, is the “Dying Wish” story arc. This story arc has upset many fans, changing the jurisdiction and standards of writing Spider-Man by making one of his nemeses Spider-Man. The nemesis that takes the mantle of the wall-crawler is Doctor Octopus which received much controversy among comic-book fans that of Spider-Man. The writer of “Dying Wish” even received harsh death threats which were reported to the authorities. Co-Creator of Spider-Man and comic-book legend, Stan “The Man” Lee wasn't so enthused with this idea either.

A couple of users from this site (names were kept anonymous) that are fans of the web-slinger were asked on what they think of how Spider-Man has changed up to now:


Q: What do you think about Spider-Man’s current image in comics through events such as Doctor Octopus becoming Spider-Man, One More Day, his death, etc.?
A: I think it’s really a total blow to the character and what he represents. It’s awful just to think of how a perfect character can be transformed into a product of a travesty in the making in a quick instant. The original timeless classics and the days of Spider-Man are over. His image is gone and it has been burned away. They have formally destroyed him. Not just in the comics, but The Amazing Spider-Man was terrible. I have no idea what has become of his image and what they are implementing into him. It is not bringing new life to the character that is for sure.
A: Meh. Marvel Comics (including Spidey) aren’t great anymore. They stopped being good in the 90s. The comics stopped being great when Stan Lee left, and stopped being good in the late 90s.

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A: The change is just a revelation that took a beloved, well-known hero and gave him a surprise “makeover”. I mean, The Amazing Spider-Man Issue #700 really shocked me. And making a villain (Doc Ock) the new hero? I just hope they get back to the old Peter Parker story soon.



Slott’s and many others run on Spider-Man have crushed the character to a pulp in the writing. Sometimes I think they will pull something out of their asses just for some bucks out of the Spider-Man fans wallets. Not to mention, Spider-Man (Peter Parker) is dead in both in the Ultimate Universe and Mainstream/616-Universe but can be seen teaming up with other heroes in the pages of The Avenging Spider-Man and Doctor Octopus can be seen as Spider-Man in the pages of The Superior Spider-Man. Peter Parker is rarely even in Marvel’s current Marvel NOW! Comics. Overall, the “Dying Wish” story arc was an awful choice and so were many other story arcs, reincarnating Spider-Man into something that isn’t so friendly in the neighborhood. The “Dying Wish” story arc would never be my dying wish.
Read more at http://www.**************.com/fansit...PlrAkceq4Zi.99

Still seen as a flagship character to others, Spider-Man also still must carry high expectations in other media including film & television. Back in the 2000s, Spider-Man was launched onto the big screen by film director Sam Raimi in the three films. Two of the first films were very well-received, with the second film knocking it out of the park. Once the third film released into theatres, it received mixed reviews, but mostly negative. Five years later, The Amazing Spider-Man launched into theatres and didn’t impress most of the movie goers. The reason why Spider-Man 3 and The Amazing Spider-Man were panned critically is because Spider-Man is a hero to expect high expectations from. For example, if you take the film Jonah Hex, no one had any high expectations for it because no one cares about the character and the film didn’t look good, and the film wasn’t good. The Amazing Spider-Man wasn’t so “amazing” as the title states. The Amazing Spider-Man was one of the most forgotten films of 2012 as it was foreshadowed by the other comic-book films, The Avengers and The Dark Knight Rises. Many fans believe that Spider-Man 2 was better than The Amazing Spider-Man. Let’s just hope The Amazing Spider-Man 2 redeems the trilogy so far as they’ve taken liberties such as changing the berated basketball Spider-Man suit with orange peels as eyes into a more comic-book accurate suit. The Amazing Spider-Man was a major letdown, even to some fans of Spider-Man.

Also as in other media, that includes in television. Spider-Man has had a series of beloved television programs such as the 1994 Spider-Man and Spectacular Spider-Man. Many fans believe Spectacular Spider-Man to be the best Spider-Man show thus far. But not too long ago, a new Spider-Man series hit television on the channel Disney XD and premiered on the date of April 1st, 2012. Have you guessed what show I’m talking about? If you answered Ultimate Spider-Man, then you’re correct. Before I discuss this show, don’t use the excuse “This is a show for kids, it’s supposed to be like this”, because it will be irrelevant to my stance on the series. I get it, this is a kid’s show, but Marvel takes it too far with the comedy and with the mythology. This basically a remake of Spider-Man and his Amazing Friends because throughout every episode Spider-Man is with Nova, White Tiger, Luke Cage/Power Man, and Iron Fist. This show even too far-fetched for a Spider-Man. This show doesn’t respect the characters either. They made Scorpion a goddamn ninja samurai assassin or whatever, they literally made Rhino a rhino that has the structure of a human, and they made Harry Osborn Venom. I tried making it through the first season, but I couldn’t. The series disrespects the characters and the mythology to Spider-Man, giving the next generation false information about Spider-Man. Do you know how annoying it would be in the next 10 or 20 years with people saying “Harry Osborn was the first Venom”? This show is definitely a red flag for the character Spider-Man. Many people say since this is kid’s show, old audiences aren’t supposed to enjoy it. Spectacular Spider-Man was a kid’s show, Young Justice was a kid’s show, Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes, was a kid’s show, Batman: The Animated Series was a kid’s show, Justice League was a kid’s show, Justice League: Unlimited was a kid’s show, Green Lantern: The Animated Series was a kid’s show, Wolverine and the X-Men was a kid’s show, and X-Men: The Animated Series was a kid’s show and absolutely none of them felt like a sitcom and they all had very great plots. Ultimate Spider-Man is just an insult to long-time Spidey fans no matter what age.
Read more at http://www.**************.com/fansit...PlrAkceq4Zi.99

So Spider-Man has been screwed over in comics, I wouldn’t quite say in film currently, but sure as hell in television. Now, there are attempts to bring the character back to stardom such as in the Broadway rock-musical known as Spider-Man: Turn Off the Dark.
Nearing the conclusion of this editorial, Spider-Man is not as amazing as he was before. His comics aren’t as good as they were before, his films weren’t as good as they were before, and his television shows aren’t as good as before. But in this case, film and television don’t matter when it comes to comics. Comics are where the character first came to be. When all else fails, the comics would always have something in store. But now all else has nearly failed and there is no plan B or C. The Spider-Man/Peter Parker that we all knew and loved is dead. I think the only way Marvel can clean this up is by hitting the reboot button, but as long as Slott’s Superior Spider-Man keeps ranking in sells, we won’t ever see Peter Parker again.

So, I asked three users on here what do they think of how Spider-Man has been changed throughout years and I’d like to read your thoughts too. So be sure to comment below in the comments section to send your thoughts and be sure to like this editorial.
Read more at http://www.**************.com/fansit...PlrAkceq4Zi.99
I don't think Spider-Man is a red flag character these days. Not at all.

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Originally Posted by Peter Parker
"No matter how small I am--no matter how hopeless everything seems--I mustn't give up! My size doesn't matter! Even my life doesn't matter! No one can win--every battle, but--no man should fall-- without a struggle!"
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Old 08-15-2013, 08:22 PM   #2
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Default Re: Spider-Man:Flagship Character to Red Flag Character

the server wouldnt load for me

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Old 08-15-2013, 08:24 PM   #3
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Default Re: Spider-Man:Flagship Character to Red Flag Character

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Originally Posted by amazingly atiba View Post
the server wouldnt load for me
Sorry, it wouldn't let me post the link. Read the article though, I copied and pasted it here.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Parker
"No matter how small I am--no matter how hopeless everything seems--I mustn't give up! My size doesn't matter! Even my life doesn't matter! No one can win--every battle, but--no man should fall-- without a struggle!"
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Old 08-15-2013, 08:25 PM   #4
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Default Re: Spider-Man:Flagship Character to Red Flag Character

I don't know, they have been doing pretty dumb stuff to him in the comics lately. They should just New 52 him.

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Old 08-15-2013, 08:27 PM   #5
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Default Re: Spider-Man:Flagship Character to Red Flag Character

That is one of the most butthurt-filled articles I've read in a long time.

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Old 08-15-2013, 08:27 PM   #6
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I don't know, they have been doing pretty dumb stuff to him in the comics lately. They should just New 52 him.
But that doesn't make him a "red flag" character. I don't think any Marvel comic books today are all that great to be honest, and nothing compares to the classics.

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"No matter how small I am--no matter how hopeless everything seems--I mustn't give up! My size doesn't matter! Even my life doesn't matter! No one can win--every battle, but--no man should fall-- without a struggle!"
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Old 08-15-2013, 08:31 PM   #7
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Default Re: Spider-Man:Flagship Character to Red Flag Character

I think Spider-Man will always be Marvel's flagship character. I can't imagine them ever saying "So today we are proud to announce Iron Man as our new flagship character and icon. Goodbye, Spider-Man."

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"No matter how small I am--no matter how hopeless everything seems--I mustn't give up! My size doesn't matter! Even my life doesn't matter! No one can win--every battle, but--no man should fall-- without a struggle!"
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Old 08-15-2013, 08:32 PM   #8
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Default Re: Spider-Man:Flagship Character to Red Flag Character

I agree with ram. It's a very butt hurt article lol but seriously superior isn't that bad. It's not great consistently either but it's a good comic. The problem is just the execution at time but it's built on an interesting idea. As far as TV goes? No marvel cartoon is great right now and as long as they keep talking down to their audience and making strictly kids shows, they won't be good

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Old 08-15-2013, 08:34 PM   #9
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I agree with ram. It's a very butt hurt article lol but seriously superior isn't that bad. It's not great consistently either but it's a good comic. The problem is just the execution at time but it's built on an interesting idea. As far as TV goes? No marvel cartoon is great right now and as long as they keep talking down to their audience and making strictly kids shows, they won't be good
Exactly. I don't think Spider-Man is doing any worse than the other characters in comic books or on Television. Its just that people have much higher expectations for him than others since he is a fan favorite.

And as far as movies go, TASM did receive generally positive reviews, and it just had an uphill battle. TASM2 is what will determine the success of the franchise IMO.

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Originally Posted by Peter Parker
"No matter how small I am--no matter how hopeless everything seems--I mustn't give up! My size doesn't matter! Even my life doesn't matter! No one can win--every battle, but--no man should fall-- without a struggle!"
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Old 08-15-2013, 08:35 PM   #10
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Default Re: Spider-Man:Flagship Character to Red Flag Character

wow that dude is harsh man. i hate when people talk bad about tasm i just want to edit what they wrote because they think they speak for every crowd member in the world and every audience member and fan and most of the time they dont even have their facts right! as far as i know critics dint pan tasm and the majority of the GA enjoyed it

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Old 08-15-2013, 08:36 PM   #11
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wow that dude is harsh man. i hate when people talk bad about tasm i just want to edit what they wrote because they think they speak for every crowd member in the world and every audience member and fan and most of the time they dont even have their facts right! as far as i know critics dint pan tasm and the majority of the GA enjoyed it
I honestly can't believe that there are people out there who will bash TASM and defend SM3.

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Originally Posted by Peter Parker
"No matter how small I am--no matter how hopeless everything seems--I mustn't give up! My size doesn't matter! Even my life doesn't matter! No one can win--every battle, but--no man should fall-- without a struggle!"
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Old 08-15-2013, 08:36 PM   #12
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Exactly. I don't think Spider-Man is doing any worse than the other characters in comic books or on Television. Its just that people have much higher expectations for him than others since he is a fan favorite.

And as far as movies go, TASM did receive generally positive reviews, and it just had an uphill battle. TASM2 is what will determine the success of the franchise IMO.
exactly. Tasm 2 will shut all the critics up.

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Old 08-15-2013, 08:36 PM   #13
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Exactly. I don't think Spider-Man is doing any worse than the other characters in comic books or on Television. Its just that people have much higher expectations for him than others since he is a fan favorite.

And as far as movies go, TASM did receive generally positive reviews, and it just had an uphill battle. TASM2 is what will determine the success of the franchise IMO.
Yeah the avengers cartoon is meh, the hulk cartoon is awful. Ultimate is awful. I honestly feel like being under the Disney umbrella hinders them on that front

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Old 08-15-2013, 08:39 PM   #14
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exactly. Tasm 2 will shut all the critics up.
That's only if its a good movie. Otherwise it will make them say, "told you so!"

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"No matter how small I am--no matter how hopeless everything seems--I mustn't give up! My size doesn't matter! Even my life doesn't matter! No one can win--every battle, but--no man should fall-- without a struggle!"
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Old 08-15-2013, 08:41 PM   #15
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I honestly can't believe that there are people out there who will bash TASM and defend SM3.
Exactly its just out right ridiculous. in no way is my hero a red flag character by any means! also the critics ALWAYS have the same argument. " oh its a retread" no mother****** its an orgin story and let me guess if they skipped that then they would say how can you make a spidey movie without the orgin! its ridicoulous! and what exactly is it retreading is what i want to ask! even the orgin was different for christ sake! did raimis do gwen? NO and that 10 min screen time doesnt count! did he REALLY go in depth with oscorp? NO. is the lizard a retread? NO. in with tasm 2 its going to be the same dumb critics saying that norman osborn and harry are retreads. its so stupid!

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Old 08-15-2013, 08:44 PM   #16
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Default Re: Spider-Man:Flagship Character to Red Flag Character

The fact that Spider-Man is the only character to get recognition for his 50th anniversary says something.

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"No matter how small I am--no matter how hopeless everything seems--I mustn't give up! My size doesn't matter! Even my life doesn't matter! No one can win--every battle, but--no man should fall-- without a struggle!"
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Old 08-15-2013, 08:46 PM   #17
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yeah man it really does bro.

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Old 08-15-2013, 09:08 PM   #18
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Default Re: Spider-Man:Flagship Character to Red Flag Character

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Exactly its just out right ridiculous. in no way is my hero a red flag character by any means! also the critics ALWAYS have the same argument. " oh its a retread" no mother****** its an orgin story and let me guess if they skipped that then they would say how can you make a spidey movie without the orgin! its ridicoulous! and what exactly is it retreading is what i want to ask! even the orgin was different for christ sake! did raimis do gwen? NO and that 10 min screen time doesnt count! did he REALLY go in depth with oscorp? NO. is the lizard a retread? NO. in with tasm 2 its going to be the same dumb critics saying that norman osborn and harry are retreads. its so stupid!

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Old 08-15-2013, 09:12 PM   #19
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Default Re: Spider-Man:Flagship Character to Red Flag Character

??? what did i do wrong this time Irish

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Old 08-15-2013, 09:14 PM   #20
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I'd like to point out that "critic" doesn't refer to someone who has a negative opinion. It refers to someone who thinks critically about something to form their opinion, be it positive, negative, or neutral.

As for the "article" (for lack of a better word, because editorial is equally inappropriate), the screwed up "facts" presented by the author are enough to make me not take it seriously. TASM was mostly well received by critics, the general audience, and fans. It was also financially successful. All that despite being a sudden reboot, origin story, and sandwiched between two of the most hyped movies of all time.

The comics have seen worse than Superior Spider-man and Miles Morales, the latter of which I find quite enjoyable despite the shameless publicity stunt that was Peter's death. The alarmist attitude of the author is silly. Ultimate Spider-man (TV) certainly annoys most older fans, but it's something special for kids and I daresay they'll grow up with fond memories of that version of Spider-man. The comics will get better. They always do. That's what happens when the staff of the company and the writers shift around. You get fluctuating levels of quality.


Last edited by Spideyfan117; 08-15-2013 at 09:19 PM. Reason: changed word choice
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Old 08-15-2013, 09:21 PM   #21
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Default Re: Spider-Man:Flagship Character to Red Flag Character

yeah critic was probably the wrong choice of words on my part.

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Old 08-15-2013, 10:18 PM   #22
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Default Re: Spider-Man:Flagship Character to Red Flag Character

Superior has been a seriously interesting run so far. And its not even 15 issues in. If anyone thinks Peter won't be back they are fooling themselves.

The editorial isn't very well written.

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Old 08-15-2013, 10:19 PM   #23
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Default Re: Spider-Man:Flagship Character to Red Flag Character

What does everyone think of Miles Morales coming to the 616 universe?

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"No matter how small I am--no matter how hopeless everything seems--I mustn't give up! My size doesn't matter! Even my life doesn't matter! No one can win--every battle, but--no man should fall-- without a struggle!"
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Old 08-15-2013, 10:28 PM   #24
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Default Re: Spider-Man:Flagship Character to Red Flag Character

The Spider-Man comics have been horrible for the past few years. They are DC comics now.

Also, Dan Slott is by far the worst writer I have ever seen on Spider-Man.

*sigh*

I just want things to go back to the way before the Quesada days. Spidey's had some bad years in the 90's and got back on track with JMS, but even his run was heavily interfered with by Joey Q. Since Civil War and OMD, it has reached an all-time low and continues to do so. Spidey has been butchered everywhere by this point. In the 616 universe. In Ultimate. On television. The video games are nothing too amazing in the first place.

Luckily, Spidey is still Spidey in the movies. I often complain about how the film medium is seen as the superior medium to all mediums while all other mediums are pushed aside. In Spidey's case, I am for once happy that that is true. The general audience gets most of their ideas of who a character is from the movies. Thus the vast majority of people are not aware of the joke Spidey has become in the comics.


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Old 08-16-2013, 02:30 AM   #25
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Default Re: Spider-Man:Flagship Character to Red Flag Character

Any Character that has been around for as many years as spidey will have their ups and downs. And I know it's all opinion, but for me spidey is doing well right now (comic and film wise).

I loved asm and am greatly looking forward to the sequel.

As far as comics, I'm really digging superior right now. Dan slott is the best thing to happen to spidey in a loooong time. I think he has the perfect style for spidey. Also, is spidey not still marvel's #1 selling solo hero? I'm not sure.

Anyway, spidey has reached that icon status where you really can't ruin him. The themes are timeless and universal so I believe spidey will always be around as marvel's flagship character. Ain't nuttin changed lol

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