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Old 09-08-2013, 05:34 PM   #51
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Default Re: Official Batman Titles thread 2.0 - - - - - - Part 15

Yeah more Snyder crossover!

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Old 09-08-2013, 10:25 PM   #52
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Default Re: Official Batman Titles thread 2.0 - - - - - - Part 15

Did Mysti melt off the face of the Earth when this happened? I'd have expected her to be in here burning DC to crisp right now.

Didio says Aquaman and Mera are not married--and that Johns has written them so that they seem married, but has carefully never actually stated it directly in the New 52, because Didio thinks marriage is story poison or whatever.

This highlights the absurdity of the argument--if it's story poison, why is Johns allowed the write them as if they were married? Why has the fan community been allowed to believe they were married for the last two years? If marriage is story poison, and these two have been married in every possible sense except in that they don't call each other husband and wife (they do call each other king and queen, though!), how is this book not dying from marriage poison?

Hell, Johns wrote a far more interesting Flash when he was knee deep in Wally West's marriage (and impending fatherhood) than he ever did after bringing Barry Allen back.

Dan Didio must be a really savvy business man given the regularity with which he spits in the face of the core fanbase. This is, of course, him being busines savvy. Right now, Superheroes are booming. It happens from time to time. When it does, the priorities change--it's no longer about telling engaging stories and building readership. It's about stewarding the IP. That means protecting it and keeping it safe and viable so it can be rolled into movies and television.

The reason for the "no marriage' rule is the same as the reason Wally West, Stephanie Brown, and Cassandra Cain are no longer on the table. They don't fit the right narrative. They don't fit the iconic iterations of these properties that are to rolled into other media. You want things to be simple--legacy heroes? Multiple heroes with the same name? Marriages? These all complicate the narrative you want to sell. You want there to be a single, simplified narrative that you push into other media.

Again, Didio sees it as protecting the IP-and the IP is more important right now than the comic book stories. When the superhero movie business boom dies off, the impetus will become, as it has before, to tell daring new stories to draw devoted readership. Until then, what's best for business isn't telling daring stories.

Of course, someone should probably tell Didio that Batwoman isn't getting a movie anytime soon, so it's probably safe to marry her.

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Old 09-08-2013, 10:35 PM   #53
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Default Re: Official Batman Titles thread 2.0 - - - - - - Part 15

I thought Arthur referred to her as his Queen? That would imply a marriage at sometime.

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Old 09-08-2013, 10:49 PM   #54
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Default Re: Official Batman Titles thread 2.0 - - - - - - Part 15

I would say that the Death of a King arc made it pretty clear that Aquaman and Mera weren't married. It's obvious that Johns wants them to be married, but the arc made it pretty clear IMO that they aren't.

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Old 09-08-2013, 10:52 PM   #55
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Default Re: Official Batman Titles thread 2.0 - - - - - - Part 15

J.H. Williams and Hayden Blackman have now been fired off of Batwoman with issue #24 being their last issue as opposed to issue #26.

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Old 09-08-2013, 11:53 PM   #56
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Default Re: Official Batman Titles thread 2.0 - - - - - - Part 15

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J.H. Williams and Hayden Blackman have now been fired off of Batwoman with issue #24 being their last issue as opposed to issue #26.
I read that they quit, thus DC no longer had reason to fire them, which they had intended to do anyway.

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Old 09-08-2013, 11:58 PM   #57
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Default Re: Official Batman Titles thread 2.0 - - - - - - Part 15

Maybe they're just saving the wedding bells for Dick and Barbara.

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Old 09-09-2013, 12:03 AM   #58
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Default Re: Official Batman Titles thread 2.0 - - - - - - Part 15

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I read that they quit, thus DC no longer had reason to fire them, which they had intended to do anyway.
DC isn't even letting them finish their story. They wrote issue #25 and were planning to finish issue #26, but DC has now shelved that issue and will replace them with Marc Andreyko immediately. I would say that Williams' piss poor handling of the situation making DC look homophobic in the process when they really weren't kinda pissed them off.

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Old 09-09-2013, 01:21 AM   #59
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Default Re: Official Batman Titles thread 2.0 - - - - - - Part 15

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DC isn't even letting them finish their story. They wrote issue #25 and were planning to finish issue #26, but DC has now shelved that issue and will replace them with Marc Andreyko immediately. I would say that Williams' piss poor handling of the situation making DC look homophobic in the process when they really weren't kinda pissed them off.
I wouldn't say Williams handled the situation poorly. He clarified that DC wasn't anti-gay marriage, just anti-marriage in general. The media outlets were the ones, from what I've seen, to take the "anti-gay marriage" angle and run with it. One article title was called "Batwoman writes exit, claiming DC scotched plans for groundbreaking lesbian marriage" The bold is mine. Not once did Williams ever say anything alluding to that.

You want piss poor handling? You should check out some of DiDio's asinine responses to people on twitter. Sometimes it's better to just shut up.

Not allowing them to finish up their story feels more like a general punishment for speaking out. But that's just me.

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Old 09-09-2013, 07:11 AM   #60
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Default Re: Official Batman Titles thread 2.0 - - - - - - Part 15

Eugh... what the hell happened to DC?

They won't even let them finish their present story? Oh well, I hope J.H. Williams III goes on to bigger and better things, leving DC permanently.

Didio is running this company into the ground.

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Old 09-09-2013, 09:40 AM   #61
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Default Re: Official Batman Titles thread 2.0 - - - - - - Part 15

I've backed the New 52 pretty hardcore, but I definitely see the damage Didio is doing behind the scenes. Something needs done about that.

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Old 09-09-2013, 09:41 AM   #62
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Default Re: Official Batman Titles thread 2.0 - - - - - - Part 15

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I wouldn't say Williams handled the situation poorly. He clarified that DC wasn't anti-gay marriage, just anti-marriage in general. The media outlets were the ones, from what I've seen, to take the "anti-gay marriage" angle and run with it. One article title was called "Batwoman writes exit, claiming DC scotched plans for groundbreaking lesbian marriage" The bold is mine. Not once did Williams ever say anything alluding to that.

You want piss poor handling? You should check out some of DiDio's asinine responses to people on twitter. Sometimes it's better to just shut up.

Not allowing them to finish up their story feels more like a general punishment for speaking out. But that's just me.
Williams had to make further statements to clarify that DC was not homophobic after the damage was already done. He should have said that with his initial message before his words got twisted. That and it's just a bad idea to complain about DC editorial interference while still working on the book. Typically that stuff should have been reserved by either immediately book (like Rob Liefeld) or already getting kicked off (like Kevin Maguire). Not while finishing things up, and now we're not even going to get a conclusion to the current arc.

And yeah, I agree with you over Dan DiDio's piss poor handling of the issue as well. The man deserves to get fired at this point and replaced with a far more competent co-publisher like Paul Levitz.

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Old 09-09-2013, 11:37 AM   #63
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Default Re: Official Batman Titles thread 2.0 - - - - - - Part 15

I'm desensitized to the moves of Dan Didio by this point. Nothing he does shocks me anymore. This isn't 2005. The guy is a full blown idiot and has proven it for damn near a decade and between him and Jim Lee and Bob Harras it’s a real circus over at DC. The man has always been a clueless bum who is just a casual fanboy at best and doesn’t really have a passion or understanding of the comic book industry or DCU.

The problem with DC is that they put these idiots in charge that either don’t understand the comic book industry and it’s mythologies or helped lead it to it’s worse period in the 90′s as is the case with Lee and Harras. Then they pair them with Geoff Johns a guy who should only be a writer because he has no comic book boss experience. It’s a recipe for disaster.

Every DC fan knows in a perfect world Mark Waid and Grant Morrison should be where DiDio and Lee are but it’s not a perfect world and those guys don’t play dirty politics. It doesn’t phase me because none of this is new to me. I’ve been dealing with this incompetence as a lifelong DC Comics fan for almost 10 years now.

It’s not like at Marvel where even though I only read a handful of their books because the rest does not appeal to me in anyway at all at least they’re not ***** to their creators. JH Williams III is not the first nor the last to go under the DiDio regime. Hell he’s not the first or last to go under the New 52 portion of his regime just ask Joshua Hale Fiakov or Paul Jenkins.

Bottom line though is that as always among all the ******** there will be some stuff I like to read. Despite always cancelling books that I read which is why I no longer really get fully attached to any ongoings there will always be books that are worth my money from DC. Batwoman sadly at this point wasn’t one of those books. It got stale to me 2 arcs ago so I dropped it cause JH Williams III has pacing issues. His art is phenomenal though. I think the book really will lose there.

I do think if they put a competent enough creative team though it could survive. Andreyko did a good enough job with the DEO and fleshing out the life of a LGBT hero (Obsidian/Todd especially) over in Manhunter a couple of years ago. So I think he'll be ok. Doesn’t matter to me either way though cause again I no longer read Batwoman anyway.

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Old 09-09-2013, 05:10 PM   #64
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Default Re: Official Batman Titles thread 2.0 - - - - - - Part 15

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I'm desensitized to the moves of Dan Didio by this point. Nothing he does shocks me anymore. This isn't 2005. The guy is a full blown idiot and has proven it for damn near a decade and between him and Jim Lee and Bob Harras it’s a real circus over at DC. The man has always been a clueless bum who is just a casual fanboy at best and doesn’t really have a passion or understanding of the comic book industry or DCU.

The problem with DC is that they put these idiots in charge that either don’t understand the comic book industry and it’s mythologies or helped lead it to it’s worse period in the 90′s as is the case with Lee and Harras.
Jim Lee's publishing duties are primarily focused on DC's digital and interactive initiatives, helping to secure talent, and co-ordinate actual publishing duties with Dan DiDio. The things that you are lumping Lee in with is pretty much exclusively DiDio's realm who deals with editorial. Lump in Bobbie Chase, Eddie Berganza, and Bob Harras, it's pretty clear that those are the ones to blame, not Jim Lee.

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Then they pair them with Geoff Johns a guy who should only be a writer because he has no comic book boss experience. It’s a recipe for disaster.
Johns isn't a comic book boss at all. He's DC's Chief Creative Officer, which is to set the creative direction for DC Entertainment across all platforms (comics, television, video games, movies, etc.). But he has no editorial influence whatsoever. If Johns did, we'd be seeing Aquaman and Mera as a married couple as opposed to DiDio shutting him down on that one.

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Every DC fan knows in a perfect world Mark Waid and Grant Morrison should be where DiDio and Lee are but it’s not a perfect world and those guys don’t play dirty politics. It doesn’t phase me because none of this is new to me. I’ve been dealing with this incompetence as a lifelong DC Comics fan for almost 10 years now.
It's blatantly obvious that Grant Morrison really doesn't want to be an editor, he's perfectly content with being a writer. And DC hasn't alienated him yet, he just wants to do more than just write superheroes. And Mark Waid would be an excellent addition to DC's editorial staff. It's a shame that he won't be working for DC as long as DiDio is in charge.

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It’s not like at Marvel where even though I only read a handful of their books because the rest does not appeal to me in anyway at all at least they’re not ***** to their creators. JH Williams III is not the first nor the last to go under the DiDio regime. Hell he’s not the first or last to go under the New 52 portion of his regime just ask Joshua Hale Fiakov or Paul Jenkins.
Marvel and DC overall treat their writers the same. The main difference here is that Marvel's editorial staff is vastly more competent. They reign their writers in from straying too far from what Marvel editorial wants with their properties, they tell them what direction to take their characters, and they don't lump last minute changes onto them after approving them beforehand (thus pissing them off).

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I do think if they put a competent enough creative team though it could survive. Andreyko did a good enough job with the DEO and fleshing out the life of a LGBT hero (Obsidian/Todd especially) over in Manhunter a couple of years ago. So I think he'll be ok. Doesn’t matter to me either way though cause again I no longer read Batwoman anyway.
Andreyko will probably do a good job, but DC's bullcrap on how they've treated the Batwoman book has made me completely turned off on continuing it.

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Old 09-09-2013, 05:29 PM   #65
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Default Re: Official Batman Titles thread 2.0 - - - - - - Part 15

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Maybe they're just saving the wedding bells for Dick and Barbara.
Only for the wedding to be crashed (because of Dick's exposed identity) and Barbara to be shot through the abdomen, paralysing her, but this time she was pregnant or something.

'Cuz edgy

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Old 09-09-2013, 08:55 PM   #66
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It's blatantly obvious that Grant Morrison really doesn't want to be an editor, he's perfectly content with being a writer. And DC hasn't alienated him yet, he just wants to do more than just write superheroes. And Mark Waid would be an excellent addition to DC's editorial staff. It's a shame that he won't be working for DC as long as DiDio is in charge.
You took me too literally there. I said in a perfect world. Just hypotethical. I wouldn't expect Morrison to handcuff himself in an executive role and I know the Waid/DiDio beef was beyond toxic and not just cause of 52 but people with that kind of grasp of & love for the DCU. You know like Julius Schwartz back in the day? that's who should be running editorial.

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Marvel and DC overall treat their writers the same. The main difference here is that Marvel's editorial staff is vastly more competent. They reign their writers in from straying too far from what Marvel editorial wants with their properties, they tell them what direction to take their characters, and they don't lump last minute changes onto them after approving them beforehand (thus pissing them off).
I'm just speaking from the outside looking in. Within the past year and change you're seeing a lot more toxic creative vs. dc tussles making the news sites than you do creative vs. marvel.

Even when there are creative differences at Marvel you see creators not really downtalk editorial and keep it more professional once they're out than you see when they leave DC. We've had everybody from Liefeld to Chris Roberson and now J.H. Williams III slaying DC editorial on social media and many others in between.

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Andreyko will probably do a good job, but DC's bullcrap on how they've treated the Batwoman book has made me completely turned off on continuing it.
What do you mean by how they've treated the book? this particular incident? cause if so you could say that about any of their books where the marriage is something creators wanted to pursue. I'm sure this wasn't the first vetoed marriage proposal (no pun) they've had from a writer.

Even if it was the most public. DiDio is so adamant about maintaining this mandate that they're putting Animal Man on the brink of divorce & removed one of his children. Animal Man! The one superhero who actually has a family and who's marriage plays a big role in his stories.

Otherwise have they not actually marketed Batwoman well in other books and did they not keep publishing it on time?

I could say yes to both because I always saw ads for that book in certain books I buy even long after I stopped buying it (around issue 15 or so). I also never heard of it being delayed as of yet.

Amy Reeder left over editorial differences sure but it's not the only New 52 book where that has happened. Heck it happened with this book once again with this incident. It will probably happen again in it's future as well but this game of creative musical chairs on ongoing titles is nothing new under Dan DiDio.

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Old 09-10-2013, 09:58 PM   #67
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Old 09-10-2013, 10:26 PM   #68
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Default Re: Official Batman Titles thread 2.0 - - - - - - Part 15

Didio's stance on Wally is pure crap. I've asked him about it on Facebook and he says that "they can't find a way to fit him in" or some crap. Meanwhile various writers and artists have stated that they've put proposals on his desk and been rejected. I mean come on, it can't be harder than bringing in weird 80's characters like Vibe.

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Old 09-10-2013, 11:02 PM   #69
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Default Re: Official Batman Titles thread 2.0 - - - - - - Part 15

I, too, am forever bitter.

On an unrelated note, this article provides an interesting (if less popular) view on the matter of Dan Didio. As I said, to spit in the face of the fans with regularity and get away with it, you've got to be a good businessman.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/09/...-of-dan-didio/

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Old 09-10-2013, 11:27 PM   #70
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Default Re: Official Batman Titles thread 2.0 - - - - - - Part 15

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You took me too literally there. I said in a perfect world. Just hypotethical. I wouldn't expect Morrison to handcuff himself in an executive role and I know the Waid/DiDio beef was beyond toxic and not just cause of 52 but people with that kind of grasp of & love for the DCU. You know like Julius Schwartz back in the day? that's who should be running editorial.
DC can really use a Mark Waid right now if you ask me.

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I'm just speaking from the outside looking in. Within the past year and change you're seeing a lot more toxic creative vs. dc tussles making the news sites than you do creative vs. marvel.

Even when there are creative differences at Marvel you see creators not really downtalk editorial and keep it more professional once they're out than you see when they leave DC.
Again, it all comes down to simply Marvel having far more competent editors than DC. Marvel hasn't pulled off crap to piss off their creators like last minute changes and reasonably reigns them in to the company's vision. A creator will be far more compliant if editorial knows how to do their jobs properly.

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We've had everybody from Liefeld to Chris Roberson and now J.H. Williams III slaying DC editorial on social media and many others in between.
Asides from J.H. Williams III and Joshua Hale Fialkov, I'm really not missing the creators that have left. At all.

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What do you mean by how they've treated the book? this particular incident? cause if so you could say that about any of their books where the marriage is something creators wanted to pursue. I'm sure this wasn't the first vetoed marriage proposal (no pun) they've had from a writer.
From completely undoing what Williams and Blackman did with Killer Croc, planning on firing them anyways, and the Reeder incident. Yeah, this book has been treated horribly.

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Amy Reeder left over editorial differences sure but it's not the only New 52 book where that has happened. Heck it happened with this book once again with this incident. It will probably happen again in it's future as well but this game of creative musical chairs on ongoing titles is nothing new under Dan DiDio.
Reeder didn't leave over editorial differences.

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Old 09-12-2013, 08:29 PM   #71
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Default Re: Official Batman Titles thread 2.0 - - - - - - Part 15

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Reeder didn't leave over editorial differences.

“I know, I know. You found out about it pretty much as soon as it went final, too. It’s definitely regrettable…some real creative differences were going on, to the point that it became untenable.” - Amy Reader

Who was she having creative differences with then if not editorial?

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Old 09-12-2013, 11:01 PM   #72
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Default Re: Official Batman Titles thread 2.0 - - - - - - Part 15

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“I know, I know. You found out about it pretty much as soon as it went final, too. It’s definitely regrettable…some real creative differences were going on, to the point that it became untenable.” - Amy Reader

Who was she having creative differences with then if not editorial?
I heard about the whole Reeder leaving Batwoman, well before they officially announced it. I really can't get into it the full details of what I was told, but DC basically treated her like complete and total crap. It really left a huge sour note for me, especially since I ended up liking Reeder's art more than Williams'. The whole "creative differences" thing was essentially then nice way of saying that she was treated like ****.

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Old 09-30-2013, 12:49 AM   #73
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Default Re: Official Batman Titles thread 2.0 - - - - - - Part 15

this villain month stuff is depressing tbqh

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Old 09-30-2013, 12:52 AM   #74
jonathancrane
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Default Re: Official Batman Titles thread 2.0 - - - - - - Part 15

Yeah, the only two that I liked were Joker and Riddler; haven't read Scarecrow, tho.

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Old 09-30-2013, 01:16 PM   #75
Cain
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Default Re: Official Batman Titles thread 2.0 - - - - - - Part 15

The Batman ones were absolutely terrible outside of Ra's Al Ghul and The Riddler. The Superman's were ok. Ocean Master & Relic were cool and The Flash had the best ones and the Secret Society wasn't bad too if you want some perspective on Earth 3.

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