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Old 12-31-2013, 10:46 AM   #376
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 4

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I always thought the first scene did imply he was a killer since one of the muggers believe that Johnny Gobbs was knocked off a roof by Batman, rather than just killing himself by taking a walk off a roof.


You could be onto something. But I guess, this Batman did kill.

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Old 12-31-2013, 10:56 AM   #377
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 4

The circumstances of that off screen death are unknown. Accidental deaths appear to be a frequent consequence of Batman activity.

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Old 12-31-2013, 10:57 AM   #378
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 4

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I always thought the first scene did imply he was a killer since one of the muggers believe that Johnny Gobbs was knocked off a roof by Batman, rather than just killing himself by taking a walk off a roof.
It's clear that Batman is trying to make people talk about him. That's why he didn't kill those two punks and that's why I doubt he killed Gobbs.

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Old 12-31-2013, 11:00 AM   #379
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 4

Ah, who cares about Johnny Gobbs? No big loss!

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Old 12-31-2013, 11:00 AM   #380
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 4

I was thinking of getting out my dvd the other day and watching this. Maybe I'll do it tonight as part of NYE celebration lol.

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Old 12-31-2013, 11:08 AM   #381
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 4

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You could be onto something. But I guess, this Batman did kill.
Yeah exactly. He kills Gobbs, gets people talking about him that he is fearsome enough to kill, then leaves these punks alive to spread the word about him. It makes more sense than him just turning mass killer out of the blue just because he learned Joker killed his parents.

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Old 12-31-2013, 11:16 AM   #382
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 4

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Yeah exactly. He kills Gobbs, gets people talking about him that he is fearsome enough to kill, then leaves these punks alive to spread the word about him. It makes more sense than him just turning mass killer out of the blue just because he learned Joker killed his parents.
I think Gobbs died accidentally but Batman had no problem accepting the responsibility so he could be feared as hell by other criminals.

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Old 12-31-2013, 11:23 AM   #383
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 4

The movie leaves it open for the audience to speculate. Kind of like what everyone on this thread is doing at the moment.


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Old 12-31-2013, 11:49 AM   #384
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 4

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Yeah exactly. He kills Gobbs, gets people talking about him that he is fearsome enough to kill, then leaves these punks alive to spread the word about him. It makes more sense than him just turning mass killer out of the blue just because he learned Joker killed his parents.
That would make sense, Keaton's Bat is morally ambiguous enough to kill. But since he wanted Nick and Eddie to spread the word, I'd assume he wanted Gobbs to as-well.

I figure if Gobbs was doing something heinous enough, Bats would have killed him... but if he was a random thug like Nick & Eddie, he probably just wanted to freak him out, and probably did too well if Gobbs got so freaked he fell off the roof. Keats figures: "Oh well. Fitting end for his kind. Now they'll fear I'll kill anyone."

Either/Or.

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Old 12-31-2013, 01:57 PM   #385
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 4

You guys clearly Gobbs got ripped and took a walk off a roof, I don't see how you guys are speculating that Batman killed him.

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Old 12-31-2013, 02:09 PM   #386
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 4

This Batman is a killer. He doesn't care. So it's not hard to imagine him killing some dude before the movie starts.

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Old 12-31-2013, 02:32 PM   #387
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 4

Got the digibook today for 9.99 at Best Buy! I could of got the steelbook for the same price to match with the Batman Returns steelbook but I just had to have it as I have held off getting too long! Its been a while since I last watched the movie so really looking forward to it.

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Old 12-31-2013, 02:54 PM   #388
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 4

Are there any other fans of the film that find the first act to be the strongest? When I think of the scenes in the film that I love, I always immediately recall the opening, Axis Chemicals, and the newly minted Joker's showdown with Grissom. I adore the whole thing, for sure, but everything prior to the "mime" sequence has a peculiar power in its iconography, like a well staged opera.

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Old 12-31-2013, 03:17 PM   #389
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 4

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Are there any other fans of the film that find the first act to be the strongest? When I think of the scenes in the film that I love, I always immediately recall the opening, Axis Chemicals, and the newly minted Joker's showdown with Grissom. I adore the whole thing, for sure, but everything prior to the "mime" sequence has a peculiar power in its iconography, like a well staged opera.
The third act is the strongest, to me. The battle for Gotham's soul is the at its fiercest. It starts off so bleak--Vicki and Bruce are on the rocks, she learns about his parents, Alfred makes it plain he doesn't want Bruce being Batman, and the city officials lose control of Gotham to the Joker in front of a television audience, with the Joker clearly not only denouncing the power of the elected officials, but also declaring he's going to hold an event at midnight--and openly calling out Batman.

Then Bruce remembers his parents' murderer, turns down Vicki for his obsession and on he goes. The Joker's parade with the masses dooming themselves with their greed is twisted-akin to a sight from Hell. Entire crowds damning themselves by worshipping this 'false-prophet' type, The Joker, to the strains of a song ("Trust") that illustrates Gotham's misplaced thinking in that moment. And the Joker just lapping it up, knowing that all these fools are his, and that they're all going to suffer and die.

It's interesting to think about the ramifications of The Joker just taking over the downtown area so completely, and the Batman just going to war in a custom fighter jet, heavily armed. If that happened in reality and I were a normal citizen, I'd be shocked and frightened that our city is clearly ruled by two larger-than-life forces and we all (even the police/city government) are just caught in the middle, unable to stop them. Broad Avenue truly becomes a war zone in the last act, and the final confrontation in the Cathedral--so personal, so subtle and so Hitchcockian (not to mention so totally 'Batman'), makes the film's last act the strongest for me by-far.

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Old 12-31-2013, 03:59 PM   #390
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 4

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This Batman is a killer. He doesn't care. So it's not hard to imagine him killing some dude before the movie starts.
He doesn't care right. That's why he tried to save Jack Napier from falling, right?





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The third act is the strongest, to me. The battle for Gotham's soul is the at its fiercest. It starts off so bleak--Vicki and Bruce are on the rocks, she learns about his parents, Alfred makes it plain he doesn't want Bruce being Batman, and the city officials lose control of Gotham to the Joker in front of a television audience, with the Joker clearly not only denouncing the power of the elected officials, but also declaring he's going to hold an event at midnight--and openly calling out Batman.

Then Bruce remembers his parents' murderer, turns down Vicki for his obsession and on he goes. The Joker's parade with the masses dooming themselves with their greed is twisted-akin to a sight from Hell. Entire crowds damning themselves by worshipping this 'false-prophet' type, The Joker, to the strains of a song ("Trust") that illustrates Gotham's misplaced thinking in that moment. And the Joker just lapping it up, knowing that all these fools are his, and that they're all going to suffer and die.

It's interesting to think about the ramifications of The Joker just taking over the downtown area so completely, and the Batman just going to war in a custom fighter jet, heavily armed. If that happened in reality and I were a normal citizen, I'd be shocked and frightened that our city is clearly ruled by two larger-than-life forces and we all (even the police/city government) are just caught in the middle, unable to stop them. Broad Avenue truly becomes a war zone in the last act, and the final confrontation in the Cathedral--so personal, so subtle and so Hitchcockian (not to mention so totally 'Batman'), makes the film's last act the strongest for me by-far.
I agree. This is opne of the few sup[erhero movies when the third act is solid. More so than the first. And I also love the Phantom of the Opera meets Vertigo feel to it.

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Old 01-01-2014, 03:29 AM   #391
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 4

Batman doesn't take a single life until he finds out the identity of his parents killer in the third act where he throws down the gauntlets once and for all.

Prior to this? He toughs up and threatens the guys on the roof and explicitly states "I'm not going to kill you". The mob at Axis Chemicals? Not a single enemy is maimed or killed. He grapples that one mobster and leaves him dangling for the cops. He subdues and takes out each and every mobster one by one covertly until he's down to Napier. Then even then he tries to save a struggling Jack Napier until his plunge.


After that before the reveal? I don't recall him taking a single life. He has the chance to kill the Joker at the museum when he flies down and instead ops to grapple the hell out of there. The Joker's men? I believe everyone from Bob to the yakuza swordsman Goon gets out of that alley encounter alive.


There's no evidence that Batman killed Johnny Gobbs. Why would he? Did he even meet up with him or is it just a part of the story, the urban legend. There's no context.


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Old 01-01-2014, 03:59 AM   #392
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 4

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The movie clearly wants to present Bruce Wayne as a public figure. But then also not.

It just doesn't work, no need to talk around this.
No it doesn't.

Bruce Wayne isn't at Dent's fundraiser. His reserved seat is there but *gasp*, he didn't attend. Maybe he got that seat by funding Dent? Maybe he hosted that campaign night (which would be likely considering the charity party at Wayne Manor later on).

We see in Returns that Wayne does care about civics life. He cares who the Mayor or DA are in Gotham. That doesn't make him a public figure. Not when people don't know or care about who he is or what he looks like (Knox doesn't even give a ****, he's more interested in, ironically, the Batman). He's old money, a blue blood. The name with Wayne means more than the man.


This Bruce,

- doesn't socialize
- doesn't say he's Bruce Wayne when asked about the whereabouts of Bruce Wayne
- has no files on himself (probably confiscated)
- doesn't attend important public outings
- blends into his own party, at his own house, without anyone recognizing or caring about him
- spends the holidays as a recluse held up in his Manor waiting for something bad to happen

There's a scene cut from the '89 script where Wayne hates having pictures taken of himself (Knox finds this when he does research, in the original script he figured it out and dies).

The movie goes to great lengths of shrouding this Bruce/Batman in mystery. From the absence from social events to monitoring everything with his surveillance systems. He's a introverted and paranoid guy. That's the whole point of Vicki slowly figuring out who this guy is. Or do we forget her following him in Crime Alley, looking for files, etc.? There's no "playboy" Bruce or "social" Bruce. There's just the "idle rich", "Bruce Vain", who has an awkward facade demeanor to those around him (not saying who he is, not getting sarcastic jokes). And then there's of course the real Bruce Wayne/Batman. The one Alfred knows. The one that pushes people away and would rather be behind his labyrinth of computer monitors or patrolling the streets.


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Old 01-01-2014, 04:29 AM   #393
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 4

Excellent post.

You didn't just join in March, did you?

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Old 01-01-2014, 04:31 AM   #394
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 4

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Excellent post.

You didn't just join in March, did you?
Thanks.

Yeah, March 2013. I'll be a year old 3 months from now. I lurked prior to that.

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Old 01-01-2014, 04:32 AM   #395
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 4

I was sure the name has been around for longer than that.

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Old 01-02-2014, 04:26 PM   #396
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 4

I love going back and watch the Burton Bat films every now and then,I was only 4yo when the film came out and yeah I was into the old cartoons and 60's TV show reruns but the film amazed me and got me hooked on everything Batman,Returns got me into reading comics and especially Batman!

I'm watching B'89 now and it still holds up nice in 2014!

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Old 01-03-2014, 10:40 AM   #397
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 4

Well guys I was just thinking it's 2014 and it's the 25th Anniversary of BATMAN, do we think we'll get any special goodies or a 25th Anniversary edition of the film on blu-ray?

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Old 01-03-2014, 10:44 AM   #398
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 4

Probably, it would be nice if they get most of the cast back for some kinda reunion photoshoot/interview.

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Old 01-03-2014, 12:33 PM   #399
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 4

Speaking of the anniversary. AMC is celebrating it tonight @ 8pm/7c. In case anybody didn't know aleady.

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Old 01-04-2014, 08:33 AM   #400
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Default Re: The Official Batman (1989) Thread - Part 4

All 3 acts are excellent, in my eyes. The first act is great, but I also love the stretch if the film that starts with Batman crashing through the skylight at the museum.

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