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Old 10-09-2013, 01:45 AM   #51
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What's with the Mole Man love? He's a short fat guy who lives underground. I don't see him as being as cool as somebody like Super Skrull or Doctor Doom.
I don't know, maybe some people just want to see a villain/character that haven't appeared in a live-action FF film.

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Old 10-09-2013, 02:20 AM   #52
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Has Kang ever been an FF villain...?
totally, yeah.

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Old 10-09-2013, 04:19 AM   #53
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totally, yeah.
He was around the time of the late 80/early 90s. He's also appeared in the recent issues of FF. I'm not sure if Fox can use him or not because he fights the Avengers more often but Kang IS a Fantastic Four villain.

Even if Kang is off limits, Fox has Annihilus, Doctor Doom, Galactus, Super Skrull, Mole Man, Red Ghost, Trapster, Mad Thinker and Wizard to work with. That's more than enough for a whole franchise.

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Old 10-09-2013, 09:01 AM   #54
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Default Re: Does anyone know who the villain is?

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What's with the Mole Man love? He's a short fat guy who lives underground. I don't see him as being as cool as somebody like Super Skrull or Doctor Doom.
Because no other comic book films have done anything like this yet.


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Old 10-09-2013, 10:44 AM   #55
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Sabertooth debuted in Iron Fist. Rogue debuted in Avengers. Mystique debuted in Ms. Marvel. Wolverine debuted in Hulk. I'm pretty sure there are exceptions.
Well first off these ones mentioned are all mutants so at worst they're shared but what you're missing is that each are entrenched in the X-verse. Same that kang is entrenched as a foe to the avengers. No Kang for the FF unless the FF are part of the MCU which currently they are not. We also aren't sure if Fox exclusively owns any FF Villains outside of Doom, Galactus, and SS.

Fox took advantage of the Mutant loophole to own or share all the characters at their grasp

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Old 10-09-2013, 11:29 AM   #56
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He was around the time of the late 80/early 90s. He's also appeared in the recent issues of FF. I'm not sure if Fox can use him or not because he fights the Avengers more often but Kang IS a Fantastic Four villain.

Even if Kang is off limits, Fox has Annihilus, Doctor Doom, Galactus, Super Skrull, Mole Man, Red Ghost, Trapster, Mad Thinker and Wizard to work with. That's more than enough for a whole franchise.
oh yeah, in that context, yeah, I agree too that Kang is more officially an Avengers villain.
and also agree they don't need Kang to make 5 FF movies or even 6. or more.
but I'd still love to see him against the FF. personally, I like him better against the FF than the Avengers.

I don't really see the villain as being the real focus of most FF movies anyways. I like the idea of them being adventurers and usually having the movie be more about them vs some adversity, but mostly about what's going on between them. Doom and Galactus, Kang would be different. Mole Man even too. but the FF can hold up movies that have pretty weak villains relatively speaking.

and hold them up well. I think.
there's different types of these movies. in Indiana Jones it wasn't particularly important who the villain was. they were Nazis. that's pretty much it. but nothing was lacking for that. lots of movies, it depends on where the focus is.

I don't think it's ever a problem to run out of content for almost any of these heroes. Punisher maybe. Punisher TV show sounds great until you think...
what are they gonna do for 15 episodes of Punisher? you know?
Punisher is one i don't see much going for. I've always felt like that about him in comics too tho.

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Old 10-09-2013, 12:45 PM   #57
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Keep for Dr Doom for last and yes there are a good few other baddies that could fill the gap upto Doom thats if he's apart of the new FF project.

The Wizard for me tops my list an old time villain & I think would be a big enough threat for 1st film depending on good script etc.

Psycho Man, Puppet Master & Mole Man again can fill the gap if given a decent storyline.


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Old 10-09-2013, 01:35 PM   #58
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Well first off these ones mentioned are all mutants so at worst they're shared but what you're missing is that each are entrenched in the X-verse. Same that kang is entrenched as a foe to the avengers. No Kang for the FF unless the FF are part of the MCU which currently they are not. We also aren't sure if Fox exclusively owns any FF Villains outside of Doom, Galactus, and SS.

Fox took advantage of the Mutant loophole to own or share all the characters at their grasp
Marvel gave Fox a notebook about two inches thick with three or four character per page that lists ALL the mutants they can use in X-Movies, so I don't think there is a "loophole" so much as a "laundry list" Fox is working from.

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Old 10-09-2013, 01:43 PM   #59
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Keep for Dr Doom for last and yes there are a good few other baddies that could fill the gap upto Doom thats if he's apart of the new FF project.

The Wizard for me tops my list an old time villain & I think would be a big enough threat for 1st film depending on good script etc.

Psycho Man, Puppet Master & Mole Man again can fill the gap if given a decent storyline.

Agreed - a decent writer should be able to flesh out any of these villains - even Puppet Master - enough to carry a film without resorting to Dr. Doom every time.
Sure, some of the short sighted among us have argued that their motives in the comics have been a little weak, and I am not saying that they are wrong, but that's where the pricy Hollywood writers earn their paycheck by amping up these characters into worthy threats.
There is a good foundation created by Lee/Kirby and built upon by Byrne that Fox [or Marvel if they get the FF back] should be working from, and not the ho-hum "Ultimate" version that came later.

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Old 10-09-2013, 01:46 PM   #60
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He was around the time of the late 80/early 90s. He's also appeared in the recent issues of FF. I'm not sure if Fox can use him or not because he fights the Avengers more often but Kang IS a Fantastic Four villain.

Even if Kang is off limits, Fox has Annihilus, Doctor Doom, Galactus, Super Skrull, Mole Man, Red Ghost, Trapster, Mad Thinker and Wizard to work with. That's more than enough for a whole franchise.
Just curious as to what issues those might be - as I have been collecting the FF since #41 and I am having trouble remembering any appearance of Kang in an FF other than #100 and that was just a robot version created by the Mad Thinker and the Puppet Master. I am sure he has popped up at one time but I never really considered him an FF villain.

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Old 10-09-2013, 02:10 PM   #61
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Default Re: Does anyone know who the villain is?

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Just curious as to what issues those might be - as I have been collecting the FF since #41 and I am having trouble remembering any appearance of Kang in an FF other than #100 and that was just a robot version created by the Mad Thinker and the Puppet Master. I am sure he has popped up at one time but I never really considered him an FF villain.
Technically, his first appearance was in FF as Rama Tut:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kang_the_Conqueror

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Old 10-09-2013, 02:45 PM   #62
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Technically, his first appearance was in FF as Rama Tut:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kang_the_Conqueror
True, but it was some time later that Marvel decided Rama Tut was Kang - in FF annual #2 they hinted he might be Dr. Doom - so of course I am speaking of Kang as Kang and not one of his half dozen or so variations.

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Old 10-09-2013, 04:30 PM   #63
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Marvel gave Fox a notebook about two inches thick with three or four character per page that lists ALL the mutants they can use in X-Movies, so I don't think there is a "loophole" so much as a "laundry list" Fox is working from.
So in that laundry list, it didn't include QS & SW?? I'm really speaking that there are certain X characters that are off limits to Marvel (Wolverine, Storm, Magneto, etc) then there are mutants that they can shared that Marvel Still owns but they can be used by Fox cause they're mutants (Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, Cable, and any Mutant really outside of the core X-characters) there are a bunch of characters in the "Grey Area" and that is because the term "Mutants" allows Fox some ownership even if they weren't part of the laundry list you speak of.

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Old 10-09-2013, 04:56 PM   #64
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Marvel gave Fox a notebook about two inches thick with three or four character per page that lists ALL the mutants they can use in X-Movies, so I don't think there is a "loophole" so much as a "laundry list" Fox is working from.

I actually believe it's, "all related characters." As long as the character is strongly tied to the X-Men or Fantastic Four, Fox can use them. Granted, this means that when it comes to villains, there will probably be a lot of overlap.

Keep in mind that Disney makes money off of Fox's properties so if a character is associated with the X-Men and thus can't be associated with anything that Marvel puts out on screen but Fox doesn't have the rights to that specific character, then Marvel will probably sell the character to Fox.

That said, most of the overlap happens with aliens so it's a much bigger deal for the Fantastic Four when Marvel may want to use some of these as well, particularly when Marvel decides to use the only Kree character that Fox can conceivably use in the first GOTG movie.

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Old 10-09-2013, 06:05 PM   #65
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I actually believe it's, "all related characters." As long as the character is strongly tied to the X-Men or Fantastic Four, Fox can use them. Granted, this means that when it comes to villains, there will probably be a lot of overlap.

Keep in mind that Disney makes money off of Fox's properties so if a character is associated with the X-Men and thus can't be associated with anything that Marvel puts out on screen but Fox doesn't have the rights to that specific character, then Marvel will probably sell the character to Fox.

That said, most of the overlap happens with aliens so it's a much bigger deal for the Fantastic Four when Marvel may want to use some of these as well, particularly when Marvel decides to use the only Kree character that Fox can conceivably use in the first GOTG movie.
I don't know where you've been but the selling off of characters are long gone. Its all about either keeping the rights or they're reverting especially with Fox. It may not be out there but this is war when it comes to character rights these days because there is a Marvel Studios now...

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Old 10-09-2013, 06:07 PM   #66
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Default Re: Does anyone know who the villain is?

Mole Man, Anihilus or Red Ghost, depending on the origin of the team

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Old 10-09-2013, 11:42 PM   #67
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So in that laundry list, it didn't include QS & SW?? I'm really speaking that there are certain X characters that are off limits to Marvel (Wolverine, Storm, Magneto, etc) then there are mutants that they can shared that Marvel Still owns but they can be used by Fox cause they're mutants (Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, Cable, and any Mutant really outside of the core X-characters) there are a bunch of characters in the "Grey Area" and that is because the term "Mutants" allows Fox some ownership even if they weren't part of the laundry list you speak of.
I wish I could tell you if QS and SW were included in that batch of characters, but I am pretty sure Cable was. It was a pretty specific collection - the character's name, image, brief description of powers, etc.

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Old 10-09-2013, 11:45 PM   #68
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I actually believe it's, "all related characters." As long as the character is strongly tied to the X-Men or Fantastic Four, Fox can use them. Granted, this means that when it comes to villains, there will probably be a lot of overlap.

Keep in mind that Disney makes money off of Fox's properties so if a character is associated with the X-Men and thus can't be associated with anything that Marvel puts out on screen but Fox doesn't have the rights to that specific character, then Marvel will probably sell the character to Fox.

That said, most of the overlap happens with aliens so it's a much bigger deal for the Fantastic Four when Marvel may want to use some of these as well, particularly when Marvel decides to use the only Kree character that Fox can conceivably use in the first GOTG movie.
This may be true in the case of the X-Men, but I don't think it applies that much to the FF - after all, the Inhumans, Black Panther, etc. are certainly "strongly tied" to the FF and they are off limits. I think the only reason the Surfer and Galactus were in FF2 was because Fox had optioned SS years before the FF.

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Old 10-12-2013, 02:40 PM   #69
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Agreed - a decent writer should be able to flesh out any of these villains - even Puppet Master - enough to carry a film without resorting to Dr. Doom every time.
Sure, some of the short sighted among us have argued that their motives in the comics have been a little weak, and I am not saying that they are wrong, but that's where the pricy Hollywood writers earn their paycheck by amping up these characters into worthy threats.
There is a good foundation created by Lee/Kirby and built upon by Byrne that Fox [or Marvel if they get the FF back] should be working from, and not the ho-hum "Ultimate" version that came later.

The same can be said about joker green goblin etc. We all know they are essential characters but others can be utilized as well. Give the already used baddies a break as great they are.

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Old 10-13-2013, 03:18 PM   #70
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Agreed - a decent writer should be able to flesh out any of these villains - even Puppet Master - enough to carry a film without resorting to Dr. Doom every time.
Sure, some of the short sighted among us have argued that their motives in the comics have been a little weak, and I am not saying that they are wrong, but that's where the pricy Hollywood writers earn their paycheck by amping up these characters into worthy threats.
There is a good foundation created by Lee/Kirby and built upon by Byrne that Fox [or Marvel if they get the FF back] should be working from, and not the ho-hum "Ultimate" version that came later.
But let's face it, we have never a good version of Dr. Doom on screen yet, so I think that is he is still the most popular choice to appear, because he is by far their best villain.

I fail to see how Ultimate Mole Man was the ho hum version of the character when he had was a better developed character with better motives then 616 Mole Man and I'm saying this as someone who usually prefers the 616 versions of characters.

I think when people talk about why Mole Man should be the villain, its all about the gimmick of him controlling monsters or how he was the first foe the FF ever fought, but there is very little talk about how his personality is interesting and if it is not interesting, what can be done to make it more interesting in the movies. I care more about a villain's personality, then their gimmick.

Sinzon is a villain from Star Trek Nemesis, with perhaps one of the coolest ships in Star Trek, but the character has no clear motive and dull personality, the gimmick was cool, but the villain himself was boring, that is why a gimmick is not everything.

I really like Kirby and Lee, but to say all their ideas were perfect and there is no room for improvement comes off slavish fanboy devotion. I would say this attitude is why a lot of the non Dr. Doom villains have left stagnate, there is no desire among the writers to improve them, so they become stagnant, just recycling the same plots from the Silver Age, only now they are not fresh and innovative. That is Red Ghost is still a Cold War stereotype even though the Cold war ended 20 years ago, Wizard still forms Frightful Fours and puts goofballs like Trapster on the team, instead of forming a giant of super villains to attack the FF. Mad Thinker and Annihilus' best stories were in other titles.

I really think the FF's rogues gallery needs a top to bottom revamp, making some of these villains more relevant and developed, rather then just recycling the same old now tired Silver age stories with them.

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Old 10-13-2013, 04:00 PM   #71
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Doctor Doom should be the villain, a PROPER Doctor Doom this time. I suggest Benedict Cumberbatch to play him, he'd be FANTASTIC.

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Old 10-14-2013, 01:07 AM   #72
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But let's face it, we have never a good version of Dr. Doom on screen yet, so I think that is he is still the most popular choice to appear, because he is by far their best villain.

I fail to see how Ultimate Mole Man was the ho hum version of the character when he had was a better developed character with better motives then 616 Mole Man and I'm saying this as someone who usually prefers the 616 versions of characters.

I think when people talk about why Mole Man should be the villain, its all about the gimmick of him controlling monsters or how he was the first foe the FF ever fought, but there is very little talk about how his personality is interesting and if it is not interesting, what can be done to make it more interesting in the movies. I care more about a villain's personality, then their gimmick.

Sinzon is a villain from Star Trek Nemesis, with perhaps one of the coolest ships in Star Trek, but the character has no clear motive and dull personality, the gimmick was cool, but the villain himself was boring, that is why a gimmick is not everything.

I really like Kirby and Lee, but to say all their ideas were perfect and there is no room for improvement comes off slavish fanboy devotion. I would say this attitude is why a lot of the non Dr. Doom villains have left stagnate, there is no desire among the writers to improve them, so they become stagnant, just recycling the same plots from the Silver Age, only now they are not fresh and innovative. That is Red Ghost is still a Cold War stereotype even though the Cold war ended 20 years ago, Wizard still forms Frightful Fours and puts goofballs like Trapster on the team, instead of forming a giant of super villains to attack the FF. Mad Thinker and Annihilus' best stories were in other titles.

I really think the FF's rogues gallery needs a top to bottom revamp, making some of these villains more relevant and developed, rather then just recycling the same old now tired Silver age stories with them.
Again, I am not necessarily disagreeing, but let those Hollywood writers earn their pay check and sort out any short comings these villains may have.

I am all for a good Dr. Doom too, but if we get a reboot that not only retells the origin but also features the same villain how can the general audience not feel like they have seen this all before? The new FF could be Doomed before it gets started...

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Old 10-14-2013, 12:28 PM   #73
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The villain is Doom.

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Old 10-14-2013, 12:59 PM   #74
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The villain is Doom.
Doom is the villain? Normally that would make me feel beyond ecstatic but if they are going the young route, then I don't feel that Doom will once again be done justice...he is meant to be an older more powerful and wise character whose iron will can't be denied..and if they are going the Ultimate route, then Doom is screwed seeing as how he was Victor Van Damme and goat leg man...shudders....


I'm so scared right now....

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Old 10-14-2013, 01:30 PM   #75
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Doom is the villain? Normally that would make me feel beyond ecstatic but if they are going the young route, then I don't feel that Doom will once again be done justice...he is meant to be an older more powerful and wise character whose iron will can't be denied..and if they are going the Ultimate route, then Doom is screwed seeing as how he was Victor Van Damme and goat leg man...shudders....


I'm so scared right now....
He's older than the members of the Fantastic Four -- but not that old. In his late 20s...

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