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View Poll Results: How do you feel about Goyer writing the script for the first Superman Batman film
His work on MOS was VERY GOOD. He'll do GREAT. 27 20.45%
His work on MOS was OKAY. I am Skecptical. 30 22.73%
His work on MOS was POOR. I feel dread. 32 24.24%
He NEEDS Affleck's help and guidance to deliver a great script 43 32.58%
Voters: 132. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-27-2013, 06:24 PM   #76
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer!

David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer!

You seem way too excited. Also Goyer is the writer? Affleck hasn't taken over yet?


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Old 08-27-2013, 06:47 PM   #77
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer!

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Originally Posted by Marvin View Post
And because you see it that way, goyer fails. Nothing on you but all on him.

I would ask, how do we know superman has faster than vision speed?
I'm breaking my word now, but such speed doesn't really matter that much since people that are stressed out and in danger tend to not have very reliable senses. Most normal people would question themselves if they actually saw what they think they saw.

Let's put it this way. If a handful of people out in the hicks, somewhere in the US, started claiming that they saw a school kid do something supernatural, would you believe them or just dismiss them as delusional or crazy?

And as for the instinct to save your loved ones I'd say yes, that falls on Goyer and not the viewer. Especially since he's writing what many claim should be the ultimate hero, he's not writing one of us normal people who would still save our loved ones in a heartbeat if we could.

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Old 08-27-2013, 07:22 PM   #78
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer!

I too figured I would avoid this in this thread. However it's a writing element.

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I'm breaking my word now, but such speed doesn't really matter that much since people that are stressed out and in danger tend to not have very reliable senses. Most normal people would question themselves if they actually saw what they think they saw.
Yes people question their perspectives on things, people question their memories on things even more, especially under duress, that's a sound hypothetical. That being said:

If I saw an alien wearing jordans, fall from the sky, do a three point landing, grab his crotch like michael jackson then leap back up into the sky again. I would probably question it.
Until I looked over to my buddy standing right next to me and he "corroborates" the story, on the spot. I still doubt him so I ask the young lady next to him, same deal, same exact explanation, than I ask this same ladies mother, same deal same exact explanation, I make my way down a highway's worth of people pulled over on the side of the road....see where I'm going with this?

Now, take what ever conclusion you want to draw from this. Whatever the logical answer would be and apply it to a singular individual. What are the chances Clark thinks this might go down this way? If you say more than 50% than what we have here is sound character plotting.

ps. Clark isn't exactly flying under the radar in smallville as it stands, pretty sure people are ready to believe a heavily corroborated story about him. Pretty sure even Jon won't be able to pay off that many indifferent bystanders. One's who I should mention aren't just hearing it from their fat son whom himself was indeed saved.

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Let's put it this way. If a handful of people out in the hicks, somewhere in the US, started claiming that they saw a school kid do something supernatural, would you believe them or just dismiss them as delusional or crazy?
Kansas isn't the hicks, sorry. Not all places are based on cartoons and caricature. Pretty sure even Goyer understands this.

But let's explore this. How long do you propose it would take for a lois lane type to get out there and investigate for herself especially if the town makes a mockery/spectacle/divine something of it. Imagine it happened right now in our current world. Pretty sure it would be easy to figure out a young clark if you were actually looking. All you need do is ask for birth papers than cross reference them with medical records and blood samples during that period. Then again, it is a hick town so who knows.

The internet was around when that incident happened right? Pretty sure it would spread. Not as fast as Miley twerking mind you.
I suppose the kents could just move. Land is land after all(have fun dealing with the internet though).

Quote:
And as for the instinct to save your loved ones I'd say yes, that falls on Goyer and not the viewer. Especially since he's writing what many claim should be the ultimate hero, he's not writing one of us normal people who would still save our loved ones in a heartbeat if we could.
Saving a loved one vs doing what you believe is right for the greater good is a very easy choice for "the ultimate hero" as you put it.
However, in this situation we aren't dealing with the ultimate hero, we are dealing with a young adolescent. As dramatized earlier in the same scene.

So you are wrong on two fronts.
1. Superman would save 8 billion people and their future kids over saving his girlfriend or daddy cause he isn't selfish.
2. This isn't even that guy yet. For everyone that "claims" superman is the ultimate hero, how many of these same people believe that of Clark Kent at 17?

I think this is a matter of a differing opinion on plot points. Sucks for people like me to see other people who simply disagree claiming it to be a failure of writing. It implies the argument has been won, when clearly it's an open debate at best.

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Last edited by Marvin; 08-27-2013 at 07:55 PM.
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Old 08-27-2013, 07:24 PM   #79
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer!

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- Showing us in the first 15 minutes how cool a potential Jor-El prequel set on Krypton could be. That could have easily supported it's own film.

- Having Superman throw more punches and display more power than he ever has in live action cinema, which has been a complaint by Superman fans for years.

- Best interpretation of Ma and Pa Kent on screen that I've seen. Again, my opinion.

- Introduced Superman's costume in the most seamless, coolest, and most practical way possible. Krypton body suits under a layer of armor = genius.

- Gave us a non-cheesy Fortress of Solitude that was already built into the plot.



It's the oldest trick in the book.
i agree with the both of you.

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Old 08-27-2013, 07:28 PM   #80
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer!

I like reading your posts Marvin.......you should be a critic

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Old 08-27-2013, 07:32 PM   #81
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer!

Affleck may not co-write the script, but he'll be able to tell Goyer what he wants Batman to do and he'll add them in. Goyer will have all the credit in the end due to Union's rules, but Affleck will have the influence as well. He won't have just sign at the dotted line if WB did not promise him some creative control over the movie.

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Old 08-27-2013, 07:35 PM   #82
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer!

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Originally Posted by Marvin View Post
Saving a loved one vs doing what you believe is right for the greater good is a very easy choice for "the ultimate hero" as you put it.
However, in this situation we aren't dealing with the ultimate hero, we are dealing with a young adolescent. As dramatized earlier in the same scene.
Exactly. People keep acting like it was SUPERMAN who stood there and did nothing.

No, it was young, confused and somewhat repressed CLARK KENT.

People don't even understand the scene and they're whining about it in relation to the comic book mythos, which is a completely different animal anyway.

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I think this is a matter of a differing opinion on plot points. Sucks for people like me to see other people who simply disagree claiming it to be a failure of writing. It implies the argument as been won, when clearly it's an open debate at best.
Truth.

I'm getting tired of people who can't even comprehend or discuss plot, characterization, theme or other basic elements of writing all that intelligently pretending that David Goyer is a terrible writer, or that MAN OF STEEL had a bad script.

You don't like it? Fine. But when your argument against it and its objective quality reveals that you don't, in fact, even understand the scene or the context of said scene...or shows some other bias...yeesh. It's just getting old.

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Old 08-27-2013, 07:50 PM   #83
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer!

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I like reading your posts Marvin.......you should be a critic
Thanks.
But if I did that I would have to hate myself, on principle.
It's all just opinion and art. Unlike science I don't believe anyone has the right to distinguish between right and wrong.

plus my grammar sucks lol.

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Old 08-27-2013, 08:00 PM   #84
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer!

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i agree with the both of you.
Thanks.

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Originally Posted by The Guard View Post
Exactly. People keep acting like it was SUPERMAN who stood there and did nothing.

No, it was young, confused and somewhat repressed CLARK KENT.

People don't even understand the scene and they're whining about it in relation to the comic book mythos, which is a completely different animal anyway.



Truth.

I'm getting tired of people who can't even comprehend or discuss plot, characterization, theme or other basic elements of writing all that intelligently pretending that David Goyer is a terrible writer, or that MAN OF STEEL had a bad script.

You don't like it? Fine. But when your argument against it and its objective quality reveals that you don't, in fact, even understand the scene or the context of said scene...or shows some other bias...yeesh. It's just getting old.
Some sense in here.

And while Goyer's filmography isn't exactly illustrious, he gave us the Blade trilogy which is great sans the 3rd movie, and to be honest, paved the way for the modern era of CBMs. There is no telling where the genre would be with out Blade.

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Blade was Marvel's first film success, and set the stage for further comic film adaptations. Blade was also the first and only Marvel character to get an R rated film but not the first Marvel character to get a film treatment. Blade followed Howard the Duck as the second Marvel property to get a theatrical release in the United States. The Punisher and Captain America both had films made previously, but neither saw a theatrical releases in the United States.
He also was a key contributor to the Nolan trilogy which was a massive financial and critical success, so I feel he has earned more than enough slack. I also thought MOS was awesome and not the trainwreck these forums make it out to be. It converted me from being a long-time Superman hater into a Superman optimist who is eager to see what they have in store for the character in the future.


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Old 08-27-2013, 08:14 PM   #85
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer!

Script writers can work wonders under the right leadership. Take Akiva Goldsman, who apparently is an Oscar winner.

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Old 08-27-2013, 10:46 PM   #86
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer!

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Thanks.
But if I did that I would have to hate myself, on principle.
It's all just opinion and art. Unlike science I don't believe anyone has the right to distinguish between right and wrong.

plus my grammar sucks lol.
Don't be soo hard on yourself Marvin......you have a gift....whether good character or bad......your gonna change the world...

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Old 08-27-2013, 11:06 PM   #87
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer!

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Just to make sure people know, Snyder is NOT writing the script. He has a STORY credit, which is what Nolan had on Man Of Steel. Which basically means the general story (max four page) would be by him.

The entire script would be written by David Goyer.
Thank you for clarifying, I have bad images of him And Goyer in a room plotting and not takin any of the valid crticisms about MOS.

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Old 08-27-2013, 11:12 PM   #88
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The death scene of papa Kent is absolutely horrible.
Yeah that was horrible, that's the main thing I just can't get over when it comes to Goyer; I have to remember he wrote BB to make myself feel better. I also heard he wrote The Crow!

And he problem with the tornadocide has nothing to do with him being Superman or not. Most normal children would risk life and limb to save their parent even if its a lost cause. I sure as he11 know if that was my dad I'd run to save him even if I ended up getting killed.

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Old 08-27-2013, 11:17 PM   #89
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer!

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The death scene of papa Kent is absolutely horrible.
In every sense, it makes no sense for Jonathan Kent, it makes even less sense for Clark and you cannot see the consequences of it.

The Wayne monorail scene in BB was also inexplicably terrible.

I don't trust Goyer at all when it's about dialogues or some specific scenes.

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Old 08-28-2013, 02:23 AM   #90
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For what it's worth, he actually wrote some of 300
Yeah, the most boring (aka Gorgo) parts.

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Old 08-28-2013, 02:26 AM   #91
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer!

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Strategic casting is a conspiracy theory? Do productions usually just cast actors at random?
It makes all the sense in the world to me, but some proabably disagree that they cast Ben as more than the actor to play Batman.

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Old 08-28-2013, 02:28 AM   #92
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I keep hearing about Goyer and his great ideas. Name one brilliant idea he had in MOS.
To be fair? Tons.
Lois knowing.
Krypton being a sterile society with tube kids.
Superman being born out of love and sex.
Nature vs nurture choice.
The lack of eagerness to accept his powers.

Not to say that any of them were done well or fleshed out in the slightest, but the dieas were genius and would've made for the best CBM ever.

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Old 08-28-2013, 02:29 AM   #93
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I'm not sure where the idea of this being a bad script came from.
From those who didn't like it?

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Old 08-28-2013, 02:34 AM   #94
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And while Goyer's filmography isn't exactly illustrious, he gave us the Blade trilogy which is great sans the 3rd movie, and to be honest, paved the way for the modern era of CBMs. There is no telling where the genre would be with out Blade.
Heh. Difference is, the Blade 1 and 2 directors did rewrites and had Goy on a leash. Unlike Blade 3 which was all Goy. And remember what happened in that movie? That's right, 2 great ideas (framing and revealing Blade, and Dracula/Drake) and a horrible execution of them on paper.

If you think Goy's best movies were his and his alone, you're mistaken. His worst movies, on the other hand? All him.

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Old 08-28-2013, 02:36 AM   #95
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One day mankind will harness the power of hyperbole.
Why is it hyperbole if someone finds something horrible? It's good to believe and operate mostly in grey areas, but sometimes people just despise something.

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Old 08-28-2013, 03:38 AM   #96
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer!

Whoa, why are you harsh on him? Complaining, bashing, or criticizing the his style or approach on the Internet is honestly not helping. Heck, this thread has gotten boring and pointless.

Yet, honestly, you should be appreciated what you have gotten even though it has some flaws or even not perfect.

If not for him, we'd probably gotten Superman Returns 2.0.

If you complain or don't like something about his writing, you should voice your concern to the Customer Service at WB, it might be likely to be heard or not, I don't know.

You should appreciate some good things and the financial success in MOS.

My friends and I are not comic book fans either. We like it and say that it's far better than Superman Returns.

I guess that has never gotten some fans satisfied.

Just my thoughts

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Old 08-28-2013, 03:41 AM   #97
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer!

Because people are free to like and dislike whatever they want.

And an Internet message board is about sharing opinions, positive or negative.

and if the thread is boring or pointless to you, you should refrain from telling people what to say or not to say.

And my personal opinion is that Goy is genius when it comes to ideas and mediocre to bad when it comes to said ideas' execution.

And another personal opinion of mine is that BO is not something to be appreciated.

And I do appreciate the good things in MoS, and have acknowledged them in their respective threads. The screenplay was definitely not one of them.

And Superman Returns was better, imo.

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Old 08-28-2013, 04:59 AM   #98
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To be fair? Tons.
Lois knowing.
Krypton being a sterile society with tube kids.
Superman being born out of love and sex.
Nature vs nurture choice.
The lack of eagerness to accept his powers.

Not to say that any of them were done well or fleshed out in the slightest, but the dieas were genius and would've made for the best CBM ever.
I like Lois knowing, and superman uniquely being born of love, but the rest are average ideas and hardly genius. That last one especially seems cliche to me.

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Old 08-28-2013, 05:31 AM   #99
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Opinions and all. But the last idea wouldn't be cliche for Superman. It's not the idea itself, it's the context. And Lois knowin was done in Smallville, but it was amazing in MoS, too.

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Old 08-28-2013, 05:33 AM   #100
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer!

I loved Man of Steel, but I feel like the performances and direction elevated the writing. Hopefully the same will happen for Superman/Batman, especially with Affleck involved.

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