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View Poll Results: How do you feel about Goyer writing the script for the first Superman Batman film
His work on MOS was VERY GOOD. He'll do GREAT. 27 20.45%
His work on MOS was OKAY. I am Skecptical. 30 22.73%
His work on MOS was POOR. I feel dread. 32 24.24%
He NEEDS Affleck's help and guidance to deliver a great script 43 32.58%
Voters: 132. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-28-2013, 04:56 AM   #101
Gianakin_
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer!

With Affleck involved, I'm almost sure we're getting a better script.

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Old 08-28-2013, 04:59 AM   #102
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer!

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Originally Posted by Malcolm Reynold View Post
I loved Man of Steel, but I feel like the performances and direction elevated the writing. Hopefully the same will happen for Superman/Batman, especially with Affleck involved.
I kept thinking that if you handed someone else the exact script with no revisions, and it WASN'T directed by Zack, it would be strictly mediocre, without a sense of style and epic gravitas.

But with Affleck on board, he'll probably improve the movie.

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Old 08-28-2013, 07:54 AM   #103
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer!

The dialog in MOS was terrible at times and was often used to explain a plot point rather than have them develop the characters.
Prime example is when Zod says to Superman "The only way this ends is with me or you dying". Completely unnecessary & was only in there to explain why Superman had to kill Zod. Then there's the "You're a monster Zod & I'm going to stop you." Some real classy dialog right there.
At no point during the film did I think Superman was anything but a grunt with powers, the only thing that made the audience think he had any intelligence is when there's a flashback and he's holding a book on Plato.
There was little to no humour throughout the movie apart from the gulp by the minister & the raised on the farm scene.
Don't get me wrong I like goyer for his ideas and vision but in terms of dialog he really does need help for the next movie.

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Old 08-28-2013, 08:26 AM   #104
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer!

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Originally Posted by McLarenMP4 View Post
The dialog in MOS was terrible at times and was often used to explain a plot point rather than have them develop the characters.
Prime example is when Zod says to Superman "The only way this ends is with me or you dying". Completely unnecessary & was only in there to explain why Superman had to kill Zod. Then there's the "You're a monster Zod & I'm going to stop you." Some real classy dialog right there.
At no point during the film did I think Superman was anything but a grunt with powers, the only thing that made the audience think he had any intelligence is when there's a flashback and he's holding a book on Plato.
There was little to no humour throughout the movie apart from the gulp by the minister & the raised on the farm scene.
Don't get me wrong I like goyer for his ideas and vision but in terms of dialog he really does need help for the next movie.
If it is so obvious that Goyer needs help, why is the studio not imposing it?

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Old 08-28-2013, 08:29 AM   #105
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer!

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Why is it hyperbole if someone finds something horrible? It's good to believe and operate mostly in grey areas, but sometimes people just despise something.
My mistake, I took his phrasing for actual criticism and not just an opinion.

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With Affleck involved, I'm almost sure we're getting a better script.
I'm sure that will be the popular rhetoric when the film is good.
As it's been in the recent past.

I still find it pretty amazing how little story Credit Nolan is seemingly getting here, he was all lined up to be the savior that would oversee Goyers story on this one(as a writer and producer and not just as a producer like Michael bay on TMNT with all his apparent story power)
...I suppose that card was only going to be played if mos wasn't a total failure. Well with the sequel, at least we got Ben Affleck to credit for the "script/story". And if it's another total failure, Goyer is still the writer, we can always fall back on that. I mean Affleck won't even have a writing credit after all.

It's a funny game, we play when we have no idea what actually goes on behind the curtains. But this is the internet, giving a voice to one and all.


Also, "Lois knowing" is hardly an original idea. Unless it's only Donner you know.

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Old 08-28-2013, 08:45 AM   #106
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer!

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Originally Posted by McLarenMP4 View Post
The dialog in MOS was terrible at times and was often used to explain a plot point rather than have them develop the characters.
I have to agree with you.

"We've had a child, Zod. A boy child. Krypton's first natural birth in centuries, and he will be free, free to forge his own destiny."

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Old 08-28-2013, 09:00 AM   #107
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer!

Pardon my ignorance, but,

1) What is wrong with using dialogue to explain plot points?
2) What is wrong with "release the world engine"
3) What is wrong with "We've had a child, Zod. A boy child. Krypton's first natural birth in centuries, and he will be free, free to forge his own destiny." as pure dialogue?

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Old 08-28-2013, 09:01 AM   #108
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer!

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Originally Posted by McLarenMP4 View Post
The dialog in MOS was terrible at times and was often used to explain a plot point rather than have them develop the characters.
Between Lord of the Rings and the Matrix, that doesn't really strike me as a big no no.

Quote:
Prime example is when Zod says to Superman "The only way this ends is with me or you dying". Completely unnecessary & was only in there to explain why Superman had to kill Zod. Then there's the "You're a monster Zod & I'm going to stop you." Some real classy dialog right there.
Where those both supposed to be examples of dialogue that didn't give insight into characterization? Pretty sure they were pretty insightful into the characters state minds and who they are.

That being said, how could it be considered "completely unnecessary" yet at the same time be used to explain a pivotal plot point?
Lastly, not sure how that proclamation(superman says) can be considered classless when superman has uttered similar if not the same thing numerous times in his various source material. At a certain you have to respect where all this comes from. I have to admit though, "You diseased maniac" may have been better, if only throwback to the celebrated donnerverse.

Quote:
At no point during the film did I think Superman was anything but a grunt with powers, the only thing that made the audience think he had any intelligence is when there's a flashback and he's holding a book on Plato.
Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

Really?

Quote:
There was little to no humour throughout the movie apart from the gulp by the minister & the raised on the farm scene.
Two scenes you found funny but I did not. I found a bunch of other stuff funny though. Who's opinion should we differ to?
That being said, at what point was it decided that humor was a prerequisite for which all films need be judged? For example I can personally go though an entire movie without laughing and still find it good. Same with a superman comic book.

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Old 08-28-2013, 09:04 AM   #109
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer!

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I have to agree with you.

"We've had a child, Zod. A boy child. Krypton's first natural birth in centuries, and he will be free, free to forge his own destiny."
I never understood why some people have issue with this line.

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Old 08-28-2013, 09:04 AM   #110
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer!

I agree Marvin, I'm disturbed by the number of people who think it's important to laugh in a movie. I think it goes with the trend of talking, clapping, etc in movie theatres.

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Old 08-28-2013, 09:06 AM   #111
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer!

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Originally Posted by DA_Champion View Post
clapping, etc in movie theatres.
Ugh, i hate when people do that what's the point? It's not like the actors or filmmakers can hear you.

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Old 08-28-2013, 09:08 AM   #112
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer!

What's wrong with that line is that like so much of the film, it sounds preachy and like part of a speech. It's all good having a small smattering of such lines as trailer bait, but when it gets too much such dialogue inevitably over-saturates a film. For what it's worth, everyone creatively involved is to blame for the problems with Man of Steel.

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Old 08-28-2013, 09:09 AM   #113
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer!

Do you guys even think Goyer is done with the script? I imagine he probably only started on it a few weeks ago after comic con.

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Old 08-28-2013, 09:13 AM   #114
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer!

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What's wrong with that line is that like so much of the film, it sounds preachy and like part of a speech. It's all good having a small smattering of such lines as trailer bait, but when it gets too much such dialogue inevitably over-saturates a film. For what it's worth, everyone creatively involved is to blame for the problems with Man of Steel.
You're saying that the line is too sophisticated (i.e. part of a speech), but other people say the dialogue was too crude. It's confusing ...

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Old 08-28-2013, 09:13 AM   #115
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer!

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I never understood why some people have issue with this line.
That was supposed to be an example of terrible dialogue? Seems fine to me. Eh, what do I know I guess.

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Old 08-28-2013, 09:17 AM   #116
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer!

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I agree Marvin, I'm disturbed by the number of people who think it's important to laugh in a movie. I think it goes with the trend of talking, clapping, etc in movie theatres.
While I can understand people wanted some more humor or fun in a Superman movie, for me, the lack of those two things does not lessen the quality or overall enjoyment. I never equated not having enough one liners to a film not being good.

Perhaps if Superman said to Zod that he was a real pain in the neck before snapping his neck more people would have liked it.

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Old 08-28-2013, 09:28 AM   #117
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer!

I can see how Jon Kent shouting that exact line(minus the krypton part) from his truck window to his neighbor Michael as they both race in to the market to sell some dairy products would be odd.

I personally have no complaints about that exact same utterance from Jor El(of all people) saying it in this situation. Especially in a feudal society that no doubt favors male children over females.
But that's me.

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Old 08-28-2013, 09:47 AM   #118
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer!

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Perhaps if Superman said to Zod that he was a real pain in the neck before snapping his neck more people would have liked it.


"We both need *SNAP!*... A break"

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Old 08-28-2013, 10:09 AM   #119
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer!

The criticisms about the manner in which Zod and Jor-El speak also puzzles me. The formal tone, the speechiness of it comes from the Kryptonian culture. It's distinctive because it's meant to be distinctive.

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Perhaps if Superman said to Zod that he was a real pain in the neck before snapping his neck more people would have liked it.
Ha!

After snapping Zod's neck, he should have stood with his hands on his hips in the typical Superman pose, and said, "Well, that was a real snap!"

Then he could have laughed with Lois, and flown off with her, and kissed her while they were in the air, flying artistically in front of the full moon.

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Old 08-28-2013, 10:09 AM   #120
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer!

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I have to agree with you.

"We've had a child, Zod. A boy child. Krypton's first natural birth in centuries, and he will be free, free to forge his own destiny."
Yeah now that I think about it that is a bad one as well. Why the heck would Jor El tell him anything?!
Zod: What have you done
Jor El: None of your business crazy!

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Old 08-28-2013, 10:13 AM   #121
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer!

In Goyer's defense there was some great lines in MOS too.

'The world's too big, mom'.
'Then make it small'.

Plus using Morrison's 'You will give them an ideal...'

However is Ben Affleck is involved in scriptwriting in some capacity then that would be promising. Much moreso than a pure Goyer/Snyder script.

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Old 08-28-2013, 10:15 AM   #122
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer!

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Originally Posted by FlawlessVictory View Post
While I can understand people wanted some more humor or fun in a Superman movie, for me, the lack of those two things does not lessen the quality or overall enjoyment. I never equated not having enough one liners to a film not being good.

Perhaps if Superman said to Zod that he was a real pain in the neck before snapping his neck more people would have liked it.
LMAO. That line would have single handedly made this movie a 10/10.

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Old 08-28-2013, 10:16 AM   #123
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Default Re: David S. Goyer IS the Script Writer!

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Originally Posted by DA_Champion View Post
Pardon my ignorance, but,

1) What is wrong with using dialogue to explain plot points?
2) What is wrong with "release the world engine"
3) What is wrong with "We've had a child, Zod. A boy child. Krypton's first natural birth in centuries, and he will be free, free to forge his own destiny." as pure dialogue?
Nothing.

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Old 08-28-2013, 10:23 AM   #124
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The criticisms about the manner in which Zod and Jor-El speak also puzzles me. The formal tone, the speechiness of it comes from the Kryptonian culture. It's distinctive because it's meant to be distinctive.



Ha!

After snapping Zod's neck, he should have stood with his hands on his hips in the typical Superman pose, and said, "Well, that was a real snap!"

Then he could have laughed with Lois, and flown off with her, and kissed her while they were in the air, flying artistically in front of the full moon.
I don't think I wanna know what would happen if Superman said "pain in the ass".

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Old 08-28-2013, 10:23 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by DA_Champion View Post
Pardon my ignorance, but,

1) What is wrong with using dialogue to explain plot points?
2) What is wrong with "release the world engine"
3) What is wrong with "We've had a child, Zod. A boy child. Krypton's first natural birth in centuries, and he will be free, free to forge his own destiny." as pure dialogue?
1. According to the script experts here, everything! You don't ever use dialogue to explain anything at all. You just have the characters jibber-jabber at each other while stuff happens around them.

2. It's too comic-bookish. And since this is a comic book movie, it shouldn't....oh wait.

3. Too comic-bookish? Or too well-spoken? Or too beautiful? I dunno. I got nothing for that one.

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