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Old 08-29-2013, 03:02 PM   #51
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Ock wasn't evil before his arms in 616.
Please read what I wrote again. I never said he was evil prior to getting his arms. I said he was naturally aggressive. Which he absolutely was.

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Old 08-29-2013, 07:00 PM   #52
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I read that Jensen Ackles was interviewed at Comic-Con 2013 about his interest in Batman after the Man of Steel 2 announcement.

I personally thought he'd be a better Brock. Whenever I read Lethal Protector or his mid-90s run, I imagine it in Jensen's voice. Plus, he kind of looks the part too. Much rather see him as Venom than Batman. If Jensen does get the role, I'll be the happiest person ever. He could definitely pull it off.


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Old 08-30-2013, 02:31 AM   #53
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I'd love for Jensen to get the role, I've been saying he'd make a great Eddie for years now. But he might be too old by the time they get to Venom.

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Old 08-30-2013, 02:45 PM   #54
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Age-wise, he's perfect.

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Old 08-30-2013, 03:42 PM   #55
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None
I'm perfectly ok with this. I'd prefer no symbiote at all to be honest.

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Old 08-30-2013, 05:42 PM   #56
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I actually do think the symbiote and Venom do need to be adapted correctly. Venom might not be my favorite villain but he is a huge foe for Spider-Man and given how wrong it all was last time, it deserves another shot.

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Old 08-30-2013, 09:45 PM   #57
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What I'd do, based on what Sony seems to want right now.

Amazing Spider-Man 3 - This would be the Black Costume story. Eddie Brock could be introduced as a reporter for the Daily Bugle, as a way to bring Peter Parker to the Bugle. Because first you'd have to introduce Brock, develop his character a bit, explain why Brock comes to hate Spider-Man. You'd also have to have Peter wear the symbiote, you have to show why he chooses to get rid of it and not keep it. Then you have the symbiote merge with Brock, the two of them become Venom, leading to an appearance in #4. This could explain the relationship between Peter and the symbiote, making the transition into a fourth title starring Venom easier.

Amazing Spider-Man 4 - Now we have an entire movie of Spidey versus Venom, with Venom having been established in the franchise with a proper background. Movie ends with Brock and the symbiote being separated and Brock getting locked up. Carnage is saved for the spinoff.

That's how I'd do it. This was actually fun imagining, and I think I'll write these out as fan fics. What do you people think?

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Old 09-01-2013, 10:21 AM   #58
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Why would TASM3 be the black costume story if they are leading up to the Green Goblin?

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Old 09-01-2013, 11:40 AM   #59
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I know I won't get it, but my absolute dream is that Goblin kills Gwen, and in Peter's state of depression he somehow discovers the Black Suit. He gets power and confidence, and starts to take it up a notch. The public takes notice at his brutality. He goes to take his revenge against Goblin, and he is mere seconds from beating him to death and he realizes that the suit has changed him. He doesn't want to be a murderer. He rids himself of the Black Suit and Goblin is sent away to Ravencroft or something. Enter TASM4, Brock now has the suit and it's Spidey VS Venom.

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Old 09-01-2013, 01:47 PM   #60
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Venom gets all these threads and Doc Ock gets none
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I honestly don't see the potential in a Venom spin-off.
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That's where I don't see the potential in an Eddie Brock Venom film. In what way could a Venom vs. Carnage story be a great film? Flash-Venom could perhaps work though.
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I'm with Oscorp on this one guys. Venom on his own wouldn't be very smart.

He's fascinating as a character because of the way he torments Peter. The way he stalks him and knows everything about him. The way he can counter every single one of his moves and even go around his spidey sense. To have him in a solo movie would be weak, a ying without a yang.
I agree with all this. Don't care to see Venom starring in his own film. Don't need to see any Spidey villains getting their own franchises. Focus on Spidey and giving us world class films and fleshing out the cast of characters in his films. Give us a Spidey/Venom movie that makes up for the joke we got in SM3 and leave it at that. Give us a proper buildup and make us believe the hatred he has for Spidey. Producing more solo movies to unworthy characters will only contribute to watering down the genre. Seriously doubt if Venom would be successful on his own as the main character.

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Old 09-01-2013, 02:40 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by GENERAL RAAM582
I know I won't get it, but my absolute dream is that Goblin kills Gwen, and in Peter's state of depression he somehow discovers the Black Suit. He gets power and confidence, and starts to take it up a notch. The public takes notice at his brutality. He goes to take his revenge against Goblin, and he is mere seconds from beating him to death and he realizes that the suit has changed him. He doesn't want to be a murderer. He rids himself of the Black Suit and Goblin is sent away to Ravencroft or something. Enter TASM4, Brock now has the suit and it's Spidey VS Venom.
Nice summary, General.

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Old 09-01-2013, 03:35 PM   #62
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Too predictable...I don't want it to be that predictable. That would be the easy way of doing it, and lazy writing. Nothing intriguing about that.

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Old 09-01-2013, 08:21 PM   #63
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Why is it that predictable?

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Old 09-01-2013, 09:49 PM   #64
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Too predictable...I don't want it to be that predictable. That would be the easy way of doing it, and lazy writing. Nothing intriguing about that.
There's nothing intriguing about Spider-Man nearly killing Green Goblin and realizing it's the wrong thing to do?

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Old 09-01-2013, 09:56 PM   #65
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There's nothing intriguing about Spider-Man nearly killing Green Goblin and realizing it's the wrong thing to do?
Sounds frickin' awesome to me!


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Old 09-01-2013, 10:25 PM   #66
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That's because it is. They should let me write TASM3 and 4.

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Old 09-01-2013, 10:37 PM   #67
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Which movie should Venom appear in
His own.

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Old 09-02-2013, 02:35 AM   #68
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Please read what I wrote again. I never said he was evil prior to getting his arms. I said he was naturally aggressive. Which he absolutely was.
The accident is what altered his mind. He wasn't naturally aggressive before his accident. Naturally aggressive...what else is that but evil? A person that is naturally aggressive either chooses that response or has no control due to lack of mental function. Otto was brilliant sooo...and he wasn't evil. Otto was just a person with a large chip on his shoulder and years of resentment from bad personal relationships. All Otto ever did was yell at his mom and hate his dad. I think he may have pushed a co-worker down? Once the accident happened, it altered his brain and he now had immense power. If he was naturally aggressive then he could have used the arms to do whatever before the accident. It's after the accident that he becomes Doc Ock...because his brain is altered.

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Old 09-02-2013, 10:03 AM   #69
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The locker photo that was posted should be a huge hint towards Venom no matter how much they brushed it off.

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Old 09-02-2013, 01:47 PM   #70
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The accident is what altered his mind. He wasn't naturally aggressive before his accident. Naturally aggressive...what else is that but evil? A person that is naturally aggressive either chooses that response or has no control due to lack of mental function. Otto was brilliant sooo...and he wasn't evil. Otto was just a person with a large chip on his shoulder and years of resentment from bad personal relationships. All Otto ever did was yell at his mom and hate his dad. I think he may have pushed a co-worker down? Once the accident happened, it altered his brain and he now had immense power. If he was naturally aggressive then he could have used the arms to do whatever before the accident. It's after the accident that he becomes Doc Ock...because his brain is altered.


Aggressive = Evil? Are you kidding me? I knew aggressive people in high school. Sometimes I was on the receiving end of their hostility. But I wouldn't call that evil. Yelling, insults, and the occasional shove in the hallway are aggressive. Not evil. Don't try to twist around the meaning of words to fit your argument (or in this case just for the sake of arguing?).

From Webster:

Definition of AGGRESSIVE

1
a : tending toward or exhibiting aggression <aggressive behavior>
b : marked by combative readiness <an aggressive fighter>
2
a : marked by obtrusive energy
b : marked by driving forceful energy or initiative : enterprising <an aggressive salesman>

Definition of EVIL

1
a : morally reprehensible : sinful, wicked <an evil impulse>
b : arising from actual or imputed bad character or conduct <a person of evil reputation>

And yes, those things you listed ARE aggressive actions. He thought of others as intellectual inferiors and voiced that opinion. He pushed his coworker. He was hostile towards his coworkers as best demonstrated, I believe, in his first appearance in The Amazing Spider-man #3. Spider-man Unlimited Vol. 1 (set in 616), also expands upon that. He was intentionally painted as aggressive from the get-go.

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Old 09-02-2013, 04:33 PM   #71
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Did you look up what naturally aggressive means? Bullying is evil...people have killed themselves over bullying so I don't get your comparison.

Ock responded the way anyone would with his life situations. He wasn't naturally aggressive or evil before the accident or he would have walked around punching people for looking at him. Anyone who responds with aggression in every situation either has a problem or they are evil. Ock had weapons before his accident that he didn't use.

Do you disagree that the accident is what made him evil? Do you really think Ock was a bad person before his accident? Just answer those two questions.

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Old 09-02-2013, 06:41 PM   #72
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Did you look up what naturally aggressive means? Bullying is evil...people have killed themselves over bullying so I don't get your comparison.

Ock responded the way anyone would with his life situations. He wasn't naturally aggressive or evil before the accident or he would have walked around punching people for looking at him. Anyone who responds with aggression in every situation either has a problem or they are evil. Ock had weapons before his accident that he didn't use.

Do you disagree that the accident is what made him evil? Do you really think Ock was a bad person before his accident? Just answer those two questions.
*sigh* Before we continue, please note that "naturally aggressive" as I used it refers only to his attitude prior to being fused to the arms. It does not refer to being "born aggressive."

As for bullying being "evil," I suppose that's entirely up to the kind of bullying and to personal definitions of evil. It should also be noted that people with suicidal tendencies don't need to be bullied to commit suicide or to consider suicide. Any number of stimuli may set them off. So those stimuli should also be considered "evil" if that's how you determine morality. If you don't get my comparison then that's really just too bad. Because it's the same sort of AGGRESSIVE behavior Otto displayed prior to becoming Doctor Octopus. If that's your definition of evil, then I suppose you should consider him evil prior to the accident. But I don't, so I contend that he's just being aggressive.

Otto absolutely was aggressive. He didn't have to punch anyone to demonstrate it either. There are other ways to release your aggression and he did just that by creating a hostile work environment, pushing an intern/coworker, and demeaning his colleagues (you're really going to tell me that WASN'T being aggressive?). An aggressive dog does not necessarily bite out of aggression, but may also growl, bark, or bare its teeth. As for having weapons at your disposal, considering aggression does not necessitate the use of weapons, Otto didn't have to use the arms before his accident.

Per your questions: Yes, I do think the accident is what pushed him over the edge to life as a villain. And no, I don't think Otto was necessarily a bad person prior to becoming a villain. I think he was just an aggressive douche bag. Which is the opinion I have of most aggressive people I know of.

EDIT: Let's go with another aggressive Spider-man character. Flash Thompson. Regardless of the motivation and life events that led to their behavior, both were aggressive. Neither was evil. They were similar in personality (though, perhaps not in social standing and intelligence) and both acted out of aggression.


Last edited by Spideyfan117; 09-02-2013 at 06:46 PM. Reason: added a comparison
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Old 09-03-2013, 09:31 AM   #73
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*sigh* Before we continue, please note that "naturally aggressive" as I used it refers only to his attitude prior to being fused to the arms. It does not refer to being "born aggressive."

How are you "naturally" something, yet not born with that trait. Isn't that what it entails? I believe you're contradicting yourself on this one.

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Old 09-03-2013, 02:14 PM   #74
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How about using a dog as an example. Naturally aggressive dog = evil?

Is a wild animal evil? Are silverback gorillas evil? Hungry lions?

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Old 09-03-2013, 03:18 PM   #75
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How are you "naturally" something, yet not born with that trait. Isn't that what it entails? I believe you're contradicting yourself on this one.
It's a figure of speech meant to contrast with the artificial nature of Otto's mechanical arms. That much really should have been obvious from the beginning. Or perhaps I should have chosen my words more wisely. I suppose I could have said "nurturally" to refer to how attitudes are formed over time and not something a person is born with, but that's not even a word. And yes, it was a contradictory statement (which was also meant as a brief clarification). I sort of pointed that out in the portion of my post you quoted. Regardless, it's a small nitpick on my overall argument that really isn't worth obsessing over too much.

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