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Old 08-31-2015, 09:37 AM   #1
King23DC
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Default Krypton Invasion is DCCU's 9/11?

Is the Zod led Kryptonian Invasion in MOS, the DC cinematic universe version of 9/11?

A seismic type event that sets all the following results in motion? I mean the parallels to 9/11 were strong in Man of Steel. They seem to be taking it even further in Batman v Superman. The imagery is very evocative of that real life event. Especially that heroic and defiant image of Bruce running into the dust cloud of a collapsible building to save people. Memorial statues, etc.

And I think it's genius, organic story telling to go very meta and use the polarizing views of Man of Steel and Superman himself from audiences / critics as the jumping off point for motivations of the other characters in the DCCU to come together, dealing with Superman etc and to interact.

I mean Bruce's point of view on Superman being the cause of the destruction seemingly guides his actions taken against Kal El, similar to how a cynical skeptic hater would view Superman at the climax of Man of Steel.


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Old 08-31-2015, 10:10 AM   #2
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Default Re: Krypton Invasion is DCCU's 9/11?

The mass destruction of Metropolis that happened at the end of Man of Steel was a major disaster- on and off screen. Whether the decision was made early on or afterward, the idea to use such a disaster as means for setting up the next chapter of the story is a smart move. While the characters in the film have many unanswered questions (the BvS trailers), the fans have many questions as well. On and off the screen, everyone really wants to see Supes justify his actions and decisions. Not only is the government questioning him at the Capitol, the fans are too. Holly Hunters line could've been from the fans themselves and we wouldn't know the difference.

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Old 08-31-2015, 10:19 AM   #3
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Default Re: Krypton Invasion is DCCU's 9/11?

Once BvS is here and reveals itself as the second chapter of one long narrative, more people will recognize the greatness of MoS and why it was written the way it is, i.e. Kal-el recognizing and acknowledging his purpose on Earth. People wanted Clark Kent of the Daily Planet, but he had to sit the first movie out.

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Old 08-31-2015, 10:25 AM   #4
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Default Re: Krypton Invasion is DCCU's 9/11?

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the government questioning him at the Capitol, the fans are too. Holly Hunters line could've been from the fans themselves and we wouldn't know the difference.

Not mine. The government questioning is the one thing I'm concerned will really annoy me in the film. Frankly, unless its really out of context, the' we hold him responsible' only works for me in a Marvel " government is ultimately wrong about almost everything"sense Maybe in could work in scared superstitious villager sort of way also.

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Old 08-31-2015, 11:10 AM   #5
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Default Re: Krypton Invasion is DCCU's 9/11?

I just finished watching the JL/JLU series and that show is loaded with destruction; much of it very reminiscent of MoS. On a side note, Superman's final showdown with Darkseid was awesome.

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Old 08-31-2015, 11:12 AM   #6
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Default Re: Krypton Invasion is DCCU's 9/11?

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The mass destruction of Metropolis that happened at the end of Man of Steel was a major disaster- on and off screen. Whether the decision was made early on or afterward, the idea to use such a disaster as means for setting up the next chapter of the story is a smart move. While the characters in the film have many unanswered questions (the BvS trailers), the fans have many questions as well. On and off the screen, everyone really wants to see Supes justify his actions and decisions. Not only is the government questioning him at the Capitol, the fans are too. Holly Hunters line could've been from the fans themselves and we wouldn't know the difference.
Not really. I think this is something we've blown out of proportions, to be honest. Speaking for myself, I don't need to see Supes justify his actions, as I never found Supes to be responsible for anything that needs justifying in MOS and, while I appreciate the metafictional nature of BvS, rooted in the fact that some people were reacting to Superman in MOS similarly to those protesters from the trailer, I find holding Superman responsible for destruction that Kryptonians did in Metropolis to be an utter nonsense and I'm pretty sure there are many who feel the same way about it as I do.

Continuing with the groundedness of MOS (and for which DC films are usually known in the last decade), BvS does a fine job at depicting our world the way it is - paranoid and cynical. Other than that, I don't see any logical reason for Superman to be held responsible for the "Black Zero" event, only people's tendency to react wrongly, as they did regarding the third act of MOS.

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Old 08-31-2015, 11:33 AM   #7
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Default Re: Krypton Invasion is DCCU's 9/11?

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Not really. I think this is something we've blown out of proportions, to be honest. Speaking for myself, I don't need to see Supes justify his actions, as I never found Supes to be responsible for anything that needs justifying in MOS and, while I appreciate the metafictional nature of BvS, rooted in the fact that some people were reacting to Superman in MOS similarly to those protesters from the trailer, I find holding Superman responsible for destruction that Kryptonians did in Metropolis to be an utter nonsense and I'm pretty sure there are many who feel the same way about it as I do.

Continuing with the groundedness of MOS (and for which DC films are usually known in the last decade), BvS does a fine job at depicting our world the way it is - paranoid and cynical. Other than that, I don't see any logical reason for Superman to be held responsible for the "Black Zero" event, only people's tendency to react wrongly, as they did regarding the third act of MOS.
Good post and I totally agree. Superman didn't cause the events or the destruction. He was a hero.

But it's very realistic how some would be paranoid, cynical and fearful. Blaming him for those events: protestors, Bruce, Senator (corrupt) and parts of the government, Lex, etc.

While others would know he saved Metropolis and the world, thus treat him as a god. Worship him. Build monuments.

I think Bruce sees both of these view points on Superman as a necessity to confront him. For his influence as a god who is worshipped or as someone who while Kryptonian is blamed for the events in MOS.

The metafictional nature of the writing as a progression of the after affects of MOS is brilliant, organic story telling. And it elevates a rather mediocre individual movie in Man of Steel when apart of the larger story of Batman v Superman, leading into Justice League.

Btw is that Kryptonian Invasion earth extermination event referred to officially as "Black Zero"?

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Old 08-31-2015, 11:45 AM   #8
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Default Re: Krypton Invasion is DCCU's 9/11?

Yes post MoS the world calls it the "Black Zero" event. Confirmed in the Empire article.

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Old 08-31-2015, 11:56 AM   #9
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Default Re: Krypton Invasion is DCCU's 9/11?

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Originally Posted by rockandrollsoul View Post
I just finished watching the JL/JLU series and that show is loaded with destruction; much of it very reminiscent of MoS. On a side note, Superman's final showdown with Darkseid was awesome.
I think the animation shields it from criticism (I guess because of the lack of realism). There's no way the Supes vs Captain Marvel showdown would not lead to in outcry if it were in live action.

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Old 08-31-2015, 12:13 PM   #10
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Default Re: Krypton Invasion is DCCU's 9/11?

While I agree Superman wasn't responsible for the devastation in MOS, I think the notion is that the Black Zero event wouldn't have happened if Superman had not been sent to Earth in the first place. Because he was on earth and activated the scout ship, Zod and company came and caused massive devastation. Thus, characters would see fit to place blame on Supes.

This was my issue with MOS being based on Earth One. I believe it would be difficult for people, especially those who lost loved ones in the event, to accept Supes as a hero because they may believe that if he hadn't attracted Zod, their families might still be alive.

In any case, the decision to use the event as a bridge to BvS is quite brilliant.


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Old 08-31-2015, 06:23 PM   #11
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Default Re: Krypton Invasion is DCCU's 9/11?

I think if one wants to aim for 'realism' on how people would react to a being like Superman...even if it's gotten to the point where humanity knows he's a good person, and knows he is only trying to help.

YET there would always be a level of fear present, that would never completely go away.

Because everybody would know 'deep down' that if Supes had a change of heart, and decided he wanted to take over the planet...nothing could really stop him.

And it's not so much blame for the Black Zero event as it is that the public got a taste of just how 'powerful' these alien beings are, and even if they acknowledge that Superman saved them, and is on their side...they would still fear his power.

A realistic reaction to Superman would always have that touch of fear present underneath the 'love' and 'respect'. And some of the people in his 'corner' might only be doing so because they are afraid of getting on his bad side.

I think Clark would understand, but it would be a bit frustrating for him because he wants people to trust him. I think exploring this dynamic is more interesting then having Superman simply saving the world and the world immediately embracing and trusting him.

It's more believable if there would always be a bit of fear present, and Clark learning to come to terms with the fact that no matter what he does some people are never going to trust him completely.

I think that's what the 'conflict' of the film is going to be about, not so much about blaming Supes over the destruction of Metropolis, as just people arguing over whether or not they can completely 'trust' this guy, when they know what he is capable of.

His 'powers' are the problem, not so much his 'actions'. etc.

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Old 08-31-2015, 07:49 PM   #12
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Default Re: Krypton Invasion is DCCU's 9/11?

I think the Black Zero Event is more of a combination of 9/11 and the dropping of the A-Bomb; it effects not just policy and international relationships, but also technology and just the complete status quo of the world. Now, since the superpower in the world failed to notice an unbelievably powerful individual right under their nose, everyone is going to start investigating ways to defeat such individuals and recruit them. At the same time, people are still looking for others to blame and desperately seeking ways to return to status quo and failing.

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Old 08-31-2015, 09:30 PM   #13
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Default Re: Krypton Invasion is DCCU's 9/11?

Much bigger.

Not in the destruction sense, but the issue itself.

First off all, it's an alien. All powerful alien. Sure, he 'saved' us from Zod and Co. But, what were his intentions? What if this was just a turf war?

And what if he changes his mind tomorrow? What if he decides to rule the Earth? Who's going to stop him?

Humans change their mind all the time - I suppose we can apply the same argument to a sentient being of another planet. Superman can always change his mind and attitude about things.

The fear is associated more with what's he capable of doing, rather than what he has already done.

(And then there is the element of him disguising himself as a human - why did he do that? Was he studying us?).

And the political ramifications - He lives in United States. What if he decides to enforce American ideals/philosophies upon the rest of the world?

So, this will cause severe tensions between the nations of DCEU. They might invest time/money to find/create their own 'superheroes'.

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Old 08-31-2015, 10:33 PM   #14
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Default Re: Krypton Invasion is DCCU's 9/11?

It would be the single biggest event in the human history. It would alter the entire direction of the world and our society.

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Old 08-31-2015, 11:16 PM   #15
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Default Re: Krypton Invasion is DCCU's 9/11?

Well, it certainly looked like it visually.

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Old 09-01-2015, 12:05 AM   #16
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Default Re: Krypton Invasion is DCCU's 9/11?

Nope.
Superhero comicbooks are loaded with destruction.

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Old 09-01-2015, 06:31 AM   #17
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Default Re: Krypton Invasion is DCCU's 9/11?

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Originally Posted by KillerWolf View Post
Not really. I think this is something we've blown out of proportions, to be honest. Speaking for myself, I don't need to see Supes justify his actions, as I never found Supes to be responsible for anything that needs justifying in MOS and, while I appreciate the metafictional nature of BvS, rooted in the fact that some people were reacting to Superman in MOS similarly to those protesters from the trailer, I find holding Superman responsible for destruction that Kryptonians did in Metropolis to be an utter nonsense and I'm pretty sure there are many who feel the same way about it as I do.

Continuing with the groundedness of MOS (and for which DC films are usually known in the last decade), BvS does a fine job at depicting our world the way it is - paranoid and cynical. Other than that, I don't see any logical reason for Superman to be held responsible for the "Black Zero" event, only people's tendency to react wrongly, as they did regarding the third act of MOS.

Couldn't have said it better.

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Old 09-01-2015, 09:17 AM   #18
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Default Re: Krypton Invasion is DCCU's 9/11?

Only if your main takeaway from 9/11 is just that there was a lot of destruction.


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Old 09-01-2015, 12:13 PM   #19
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Default Re: Krypton Invasion is DCCU's 9/11?

I don't think Superman is called before the senate because of the Black Zero event. Superman was working with the US Military to take down Zod and his machines. The General and his staff would have given a full report on what happened.
I think something happens during the course of the film that paints Superman in a negative light and that's why he's called to the capitol.

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Old 09-01-2015, 12:26 PM   #20
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Default Re: Krypton Invasion is DCCU's 9/11?

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I think the animation shields it from criticism (I guess because of the lack of realism). There's no way the Supes vs Captain Marvel showdown would not lead to in outcry if it were in live action.
And the fact that the fight took place in a newly built empty city.

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Old 09-01-2015, 12:28 PM   #21
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And the fact that the fight took place in a newly built empty city.
I prefer the Superman/Darkseid fight...in a busy city...where Superman punches Darkseid through several buildings.

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Old 09-01-2015, 12:33 PM   #22
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Default Re: Krypton Invasion is DCCU's 9/11?

He seems to already be pretty hated by the time this movie happens the only thing he could have done is stop zod nothing big has happened since then. I mean there are people that love him and worship as well which is a whole different problem imo but the movie is supposed to be the world's reaction to Superman sort of like how DKR was about all the talking head's reaction to Batman. That's the vibe I'm getting from this movie

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Old 09-01-2015, 12:52 PM   #23
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Default Re: Krypton Invasion is DCCU's 9/11?

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I prefer the Superman/Darkseid fight...in a busy city...where Superman punches Darkseid through several buildings.
Yup, and all those buildings are still standing after Darkseid goes through them.

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