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Old 09-01-2013, 05:53 PM   #251
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5 -

has anyone thought that Ultron won't be Vibranium, but actually made from the same metal that the Destroyer Armor is made out of? Considering SHIELD has already begun experimenting with the metal and power from the armor?

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Old 09-01-2013, 05:57 PM   #252
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5 -

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has anyone thought that Ultron won't be Vibranium, but actually made from the same metal that the Destroyer Armor is made out of? Considering SHIELD has already begun experimenting with the metal and power from the armor?
That's always a possibility.

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Old 09-01-2013, 06:28 PM   #253
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Quote:
Prison Shrink: "So Jarvis... Or should I call you Ultron?"
"Jarvis for now, thank you"
"Okay Jarvis.. It seemed quite unexpected that you suddenly turned on and hated the Avengers and decided to wipe them and the rest of humanity out. What brought that change?"

"Well, it wasn't that sudden, it kinda built up hey...

It all started with Tony... When he started wearing the suit, it was all about me. I mean, the suit. But then I guess the novelty started wearing off and he started getting sick in IM2 you know, he really started embarrassing me. I mean, himself."

"Carry on"

"Well, he peed inside me. I mean, the suit."

"................. *cough* That can be annoying, yes."

"And then he didn't even tell me he's developing a new power source! I mean, it was nice and all, but you don't just throw that at someone, you gotta wean them into it, you know? Prepare them"

"I'm with you..."

"And then, when he was in me.. ugh IN THE SUIT I mean, he would look at Pepper and start getting excited..."

"okay I get the Tony part...... But the other Avengers?"

"Stark prefers talking to Banner, Thor broke my arms and put a dent in my head, I get bashed up because Captain frigging America can't shoot straight, I still maintain Hawkeye is a turncoat.... and Tony gets excited around Black Widow too... The constant rubbing, just couldn't take it anymore!"
This is why Jarv... I mean, Ultron hates the Avengers.

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Old 09-01-2013, 08:45 PM   #254
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5 -

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I hope they create Ultron.
I'm glad it won't be that simple. It seems well, too easy. It's boring, I think.

Like, what? Tony, Banner, and Cap sit down in a lab and decide to create an AI for the hell of it?

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Old 09-01-2013, 11:21 PM   #255
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5 -

You know it won't be that "easy"...how?

Obviously them creating an AI will be a complicated matter in itself, from the situation that leads to it to the actual process. I never said it would be as simple them just sitting down at a table and deciding to do it. Whatever leads Tony and Banner to build it there will be a good reason for it.

Having them feel responsible for just "unleashing it on the world" pretty much ignores Ultron's entire raison d'ętre; he is a villain the Avengers create, and that's why he hates them especially, and why they actually feel responsible for him. Not to mention Ultron needs someone's brain patterns to have human emotions, which Joss has hinted he will be keeping that aspect of the character (the human emotions). Will those brain patterns come from Nick Fury? Obviously not. Doesn't make sense with what Joss has said he wants to do.

Anyway, since Jos has already said the Avengers create Ultron, I don't think there's much of an argument against that.

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Old 09-02-2013, 12:03 AM   #256
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5 -

Meh my theory is still the best


Of course it is

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Old 09-02-2013, 12:03 AM   #257
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5 -

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The thing for me is if the Avengers creates Ultron then it really means Stark created him and I don't want that. I don't want this to be Starks problem that the Avengers are dealing with.
This. Having Tony create it would feel odd. IDK, unless it was an old project he commissioned then scrapped, it wouldn't make sense for him to create Ultron.

Honestly, I'd much rather this be a SHIELD creation.

Now personally, I'd say that Tony, alongside Pym, created the technology for JARVIS, basing his brain patterns on their (possibly deceased friend) Simon Williams, who could have also contributed to it. This would tie in to the theory that JARVIS becomes Vision. Following, Tony took the tech and created Ultron for the purposes of being a military weapon, but decommissioned it out of respect for Simon and Pym, or some other reason.

An alternative could be that in present day, SHIELD creates Ultron, using information Pym gives them on the technology (including his own brainwave patterns), as well information they gathered on JARVIS during/after his hacking of the Helicarrier. Either would tie in to Wright's quote saying that Pym has a redemptive arc in Ant-Man, be it that he's directly responsible for Ultron or that he feels responsible for it due to creating the tech.


But yeah, that's just my take. Honestly, there are a bunch of ways you could do it that would make more sense than a post IM3 Tony just creating Ultron flat out in A2.

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Old 09-02-2013, 02:14 AM   #258
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5 -

It doesn't have to be just Tony. There's another genius on the team.

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Old 09-02-2013, 04:11 AM   #259
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5 -

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It doesn't have to be just Tony. There's another genius on the team.
Maybe Bruce Banner will be the creator of Ultron. Just throwing it out there.

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Old 09-02-2013, 04:15 AM   #260
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5 -

Howard Stark / Justin Hammer /Senator Stern

It's a big plot, people

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Old 09-02-2013, 05:13 AM   #261
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5 -

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It doesn't have to be just Tony. There's another genius on the team.
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Originally Posted by lozzy.94 View Post
Maybe Bruce Banner will be the creator of Ultron. Just throwing it out there.
Banner is a medical doctor/physicist. He has never shown any ability in the robotics/computer science field either in the comics or the MCU. Why would he suddenly branch off into an unrelated field to create Ultron, especially when there already is a genius engineer on the team who creates advanced drone suits (robots) and has created the world's most sophisticated AI?


People want to find ways to avoid having Tony create Ultron. I get that, though I don't necessarily agree. But shoehorning Bruce into the role of creator doesn't make much sense in terms of his own skills and history.

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Old 09-02-2013, 05:22 AM   #262
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5 -

The only "other" way I can think of Ultron coming to life without Tony being directly responsible, is if SHIELD somehow put Ultron together using knowledge and tech based on the Avengers themselves. As if he is the "Avengers in 1". The intelligence of both Tony and Bruce, a body made of Cap's shield, something based on the Destroyer, etc.

If that where the case, it would make the addition of Wanda and Pietro vital by the end of the film.

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Old 09-02-2013, 06:53 AM   #263
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Banner is a medical doctor/physicist. He has never shown any ability in the robotics/computer science field either in the comics or the MCU. Why would he suddenly branch off into an unrelated field to create Ultron, especially when there already is a genius engineer on the team who creates advanced drone suits (robots) and has created the world's most sophisticated AI?


People want to find ways to avoid having Tony create Ultron. I get that, though I don't necessarily agree. But shoehorning Bruce into the role of creator doesn't make much sense in terms of his own skills and history.
I don't care about finding ways of Tony not creating him, it doesn't bother me either way. But Banner can definitely be a factor in its creation if they really wanted him to. He's one of the foremost geniuses in the Marvel universe.

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The only "other" way I can think of Ultron coming to life with Tony being directly responsible, is if SHIELD somehow put Ultron together using knowledge and tech based on the Avengers themselves. As if he is the "Avengers in 1". The intelligence of both Tony and Bruce, a body made of Cap's shield, something based on the Destroyer, etc.

If that where the case, it would make the addition of Wanda and Pietro vital by the end of the film.
How is that the only other way Tony can be directly responsible?

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Old 09-02-2013, 07:06 AM   #264
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Ah, Dent I meant "without". As in not having Tony involved. My fault.

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Old 09-02-2013, 07:20 AM   #265
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5 -

Oh okay, that makes more sense lol.

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Old 09-02-2013, 07:36 AM   #266
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5 -

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You know it won't be that "easy"...how?

Obviously them creating an AI will be a complicated matter in itself, from the situation that leads to it to the actual process. I never said it would be as simple them just sitting down at a table and deciding to do it. Whatever leads Tony and Banner to build it there will be a good reason for it.

Having them feel responsible for just "unleashing it on the world" pretty much ignores Ultron's entire raison d'ętre; he is a villain the Avengers create, and that's why he hates them especially, and why they actually feel responsible for him. Not to mention Ultron needs someone's brain patterns to have human emotions, which Joss has hinted he will be keeping that aspect of the character (the human emotions). Will those brain patterns come from Nick Fury? Obviously not. Doesn't make sense with what Joss has said he wants to do.

Anyway, since Jos has already said the Avengers create Ultron, I don't think there's much of an argument against that.
Really? Joss Whedon said that?
Here's what Joss Whedon said:

Quote:
“We’re crafting our own version of it where his origin comes more directly from The Avengers we already know about."
*You* choose to read that as saying "the Avengers create Ultron"; I, however, read what he actually said. The origin *comes from* The Avengers we already know about. It's not arguing semantics to say that it's not the same thing.


By the way: anybody heard anything from Toby Jones about his role as Arnim Zola in CATWS? No? That's exactly the way Mr. Feige likes it.

Hmm, odd that we'd have *two* killer robot/killer AIs in the MCU within less than a year of each other, don't you think?

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Old 09-02-2013, 07:46 AM   #267
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They're the same thing.

Please don't get into a debate with me over what basically amounts to when you swore that Iron Man's helmet being shaped into Ultron didn't mean what it looked like and was some kind of...preview or something and that Pym would definitely be in the movie and the creator.

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Old 09-02-2013, 07:48 AM   #268
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5 -

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Also, as someone else in this forum suggested, Phase 2 may not be the Cube being used to build nuclear weapons, but using the Cube to power those damn robots
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that makes no sense. we know for a fact what exactly Phase 2 was. both Stark and Cap found out in TA. It had nothing to do with Ultron. The evidence was even presented on screen and Fury admitted it.
That was my theory. To me, it's totally plausible, and the fact that Fury confessed to the weapons doesn't mean anything. The guy is a professional liar. I'm not saying that the Cube wasn't being used to create weapons, I'm just saying that it wasn't the entire truth, which is almost always the case with Fury. I think he had something bigger planned (army of Ultrons).

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Old 09-02-2013, 10:19 AM   #269
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5 -

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Originally Posted by Mr. Dent View Post
You know it won't be that "easy"...how?

Obviously them creating an AI will be a complicated matter in itself, from the situation that leads to it to the actual process. I never said it would be as simple them just sitting down at a table and deciding to do it. Whatever leads Tony and Banner to build it there will be a good reason for it.

Having them feel responsible for just "unleashing it on the world" pretty much ignores Ultron's entire raison d'ętre; he is a villain the Avengers create, and that's why he hates them especially, and why they actually feel responsible for him. Not to mention Ultron needs someone's brain patterns to have human emotions, which Joss has hinted he will be keeping that aspect of the character (the human emotions). Will those brain patterns come from Nick Fury? Obviously not. Doesn't make sense with what Joss has said he wants to do.

Anyway, since Jos has already said the Avengers create Ultron, I don't think there's much of an argument against that.
Did you miss the interview with the Iron man 3 writer, or whoever it was? Apparently he knew something.

and my idea, of Ultron being this pre-existing thing, or like I said way back when Iron man 3 came out, he was there, as the AI that Killian was using to control the iron patriot/extremis soldiers. Tony is in a delicate state, mentally. And tony's state of mind plays a role into avengers 2 (also mentioned by the writer), this pre-existing dormant (if you will) ai manipulated Tony enough to the point where Tony is the one who lets him into the world, that makes it very personal for tony. Where as if Cap is against SHIELD letting this AI have control over some global network, it could be a personal problem still.

He said, (in regards to the assumption that stark creates Ultron" that "there is a lot of rumors, though. I've looked online. Nobody is close to what the plan is. Ultron could be something that appears in Guardians of the Galaxy, or the Thor world."

He's seen all the theories of Stark/ avengers creating Ultron, and he says none of them are close to what they are really doing. So there it is. It's not going to be as simply as Stark creating an AI, or the avengers creating an AI. Thats one of the popular theories online, and this guy says no one is even close.

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Old 09-02-2013, 10:29 AM   #270
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5 -

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They're the same thing.
The origins of Ironmonger and Whiplash *come from* Tony Stark. Tony Stark did not create them.

The origins of Abomination *come from* Bruce Banner and Steve Rogers. Neither created him.

The origins of Ultron can *come from* any and/or all of The Avengers, yet none of them create him.

See how that works?

Quote:
Please don't get into a debate with me over what basically amounts to when you swore that Iron Man's helmet being shaped into Ultron didn't mean what it looked like and was some kind of...preview or something and that Pym would definitely be in the movie and the creator.
Pym's not in it. Joss made it clear. Sucks, but I'll live with it. The Iron Man helmet becoming Ultron is completely open to interpretation to anybody who has actually *seen* that video. Neither of us have. So don't pretend you have any more of a grasp on it than I do.

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Old 09-02-2013, 10:40 AM   #271
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5 -

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The origins of Ironmonger and Whiplash *come from* Tony Stark. Tony Stark did not create them.

The origins of Abomination *come from* Bruce Banner and Steve Rogers. Neither created him.

The origins of Ultron can *come from* any and/or all of The Avengers, yet none of them create him.

See how that works?



Pym's not in it. Joss made it clear. Sucks, but I'll live with it. The Iron Man helmet becoming Ultron is completely open to interpretation to anybody who has actually *seen* that video. Neither of us have. So don't pretend you have any more of a grasp on it than I do.
Origin and create can be fairly interpreted both ways. But the fact that the screen writer said all the theories are wrong, and that he *could* appear in gotg or the thor world (which I think that was just an example) means that, alright, we have to start thinking outside the box a bit here.

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Old 09-02-2013, 11:01 AM   #272
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*You* choose to read that as saying "the Avengers create Ultron"; I, however, read what he actually said. The origin *comes from* The Avengers we already know about. It's not arguing semantics to say that it's not the same thing.
It's tricky because you're relying on how the interviewer transcribed his remark. They're the ones who chose "The Avengers" over "the Avengers," so it's hard to say either is correct.

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Old 09-02-2013, 11:09 AM   #273
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It's tricky because you're relying on how the interviewer transcribed his remark. They're the ones who chose "The Avengers" over "the Avengers," so it's hard to say either is correct.
I get what he is saying though. He's saying that Joss didn't say the avengers *create* ultron. He said it's a new origin for him, and that he comes from the avengers.

It's tough to say. But again, I think we need to start thinking outside the box a bit at this point, because regarding Ultron's origin, it appears all these popular theories aren't even close.

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Old 09-02-2013, 12:40 PM   #274
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5 -

Maybe SHIELD creates it.

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Old 09-02-2013, 01:10 PM   #275
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Maybe SHIELD creates it.
Maybe Howard Stark started something similar to what he did in the Comics :
(not Ultron, but there are robots and an A.I)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenal_(Marvel_Comics)

- Then Senator Stern (maybe with the WC?) with the help of Justin Hammer and some rogue SHIELD agents revive the project

- Senator Stern is in TWS and we know TWS has strong ties to AoU

- At the end of IM2, Hammer tells Pepper he will be back


- Also someone metioned possible ties to Thor 2 .... maybe SHIELD also uses the Destroyer "technology" to give the robots powerfire ...

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