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Old 09-08-2013, 04:31 PM   #526
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5 -

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to be fair, they changed quite alot in order to make it fit though
On the contrary, it isn't a fair perspective. Changes happen all of the time for these characters in movies, comics, etc to keep them "up-to-date". It was still the essential character of Superman with his major elements kept intact.

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Old 09-08-2013, 04:31 PM   #527
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Also we would have Superperson, Batperson & Spider-person, which would all be big improvements.

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Old 09-08-2013, 04:38 PM   #528
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Yeah, MoS was not far from SINO.
Have no idea what SINO is.

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Old 09-08-2013, 04:47 PM   #529
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Not true, and imo MOS proved you wrong man.
They didn't use his name, though. It's my guess that you'll hear him called "Clark" from now on a whole lot more than he'll be called "Superman."

As for Ms. Marvel vs. Captain Marvel, I'm not wild about either name, but it's not heresy to give the title to Carol now. Mar-vell has been gone a loooong time. It's not like he's been running around with the name since '67 or anything and they suddenly took it away from him.

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Old 09-08-2013, 04:52 PM   #530
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They didn't use his name, though. It's my guess that you'll hear him called "Clark" from now on a whole lot more than he'll be called "Superman."

A soldier called him Superman for the first time toward the end of the movie. That was his origin, so it was fine that his name wasn't established with everyone. In WF he'll be called Superman.

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Old 09-08-2013, 04:53 PM   #531
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5 -

You mean "Batman vs. Superman vs. The Worst Title Ever"

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Old 09-08-2013, 04:57 PM   #532
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lol! Yeah, I'm not a fan of the "vs." crap in the title either.

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Old 09-08-2013, 05:13 PM   #533
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The V.S title is fine.

The film is about Superman and Batman meeting, not teaming up

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Old 09-08-2013, 05:17 PM   #534
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5 -

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The V.S title is fine.

The film is about Superman and Batman meeting, not teaming up

It's really about Batman kicking Superman's ass.


But this is The Avengers forum. Let's get back on topic.

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Old 09-08-2013, 05:37 PM   #535
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5 -

My only real gripe with the first film was that Hawkeye was under used.

I like that he will have a more important role

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Old 09-08-2013, 05:45 PM   #536
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My only real gripe with the first film was that Hawkeye was under used.

I like that he will have a more important role
I disliked that, too. Clint has always been one of my favorite Avengers and I wanted to see more of his personality. At least Whedon has said that he's having fun writing an expanded role for Clint in AoU, so that's something. (Though he said the same thing about Phil Coulson and we all know how that ended up. )

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Old 09-08-2013, 05:48 PM   #537
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I felt sad when Coulson died despite what a few others say...

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Old 09-08-2013, 06:23 PM   #538
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I felt sad when Coulson died despite what a few others say...
So did I, and so did a lot of fans. We were so sad that we helped resurrect the agent. So now we're not sad any more.

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Old 09-08-2013, 06:28 PM   #539
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5 -

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On the contrary, it isn't a fair perspective. Changes happen all of the time for these characters in movies, comics, etc to keep them "up-to-date". It was still the essential character of Superman with his major elements kept intact.
for me, they "updated" far far far too much, half of which did not necessarily need it.

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Old 09-08-2013, 07:00 PM   #540
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5 -

I won't even front, I just want her to be Ms. Marvel so we can actually see if they'd put her in the classic one piece.

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Old 09-08-2013, 07:11 PM   #541
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5 -

Almost every super hero name has their gender in it so what's the problem? Also there is nothing wrong with being called Ms.Marvel she's not ashamed of being a woman that's the way I see it.

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Old 09-08-2013, 07:25 PM   #542
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Almost every super hero name has their gender in it so what's the problem? Also there is nothing wrong with being called Ms.Marvel she's not ashamed of being a woman that's the way I see it.
That's the way i see it too...

I read a really fantastic article a few weeks ago about how people are getting incredibly tired (and beginning to find it offensive) that a female action hero always has to come off so stern, cold, and masculine. They described it basically as writing a role for a male action hero, and forcing a woman to play the part. It certainly fits for SOME characters... (they cited Widow as a female in a male role), but also cited Peggy Carter as a way that women should actually be handled. It's quite ok for a woman to be portrayed as a woman... and when you take a woman who fits that bill.. and make her kick ass.. she typically does become quite amazing and iconic.

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Old 09-08-2013, 07:26 PM   #543
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I prefer the name "Ms. Marvel" because it's unique and sums up something essential about the character. She's supposed to be a superheroine for the post-feminist era, to contrast with most of the other Marvel heroines, who were mostly from the Stan Lee era and had more passive powers. There's even an Avengers issue where Wonder Man, being kind of a chauvinist, is disconcerted by Carol because she actually punches people, and he's used to heroines like Scarlet Witch who zap people from a distance. "Captain Marvel" is less dated but it's also one of the most generic names in superherodom, and combined with her generic new outfit it's hard to know who she is from hearing about her or looking at her. It seems weird that Marvel tried so hard to build Carol up as a star and then abandoned the name and visual trademarks to start almost from scratch. They could have let her wear pants and still kept the black mask.

I do like Carol and think there's a movie in her origin concept. She's basically Lois Lane if she got superpowers (again) and kept them. A superhero's girlfriend who gets her boyfriend's powers, and combines them with her own background and training to be a different kind of superhero. It's a good, simple story that could work. I don't know that the comics are doing her any favors though, over-pushing her and constantly changing her at the same time. But for a female-led movie I don't know what other choices they'd have; Scarlet Witch is a better Avenger (even after the comics did everything they could to get rid of her) but couldn't carry a solo movie, and most of their other women are property of the X-franchise.


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Old 09-08-2013, 07:40 PM   #544
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5 -

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That's the way i see it too...

I read a really fantastic article a few weeks ago about how people are getting incredibly tired (and beginning to find it offensive) that a female action hero always has to come off so stern, cold, and masculine. They described it basically as writing a role for a male action hero, and forcing a woman to play the part. It certainly fits for SOME characters... (they cited Widow as a female in a male role), but also cited Peggy Carter as a way that women should actually be handled. It's quite ok for a woman to be portrayed as a woman... and when you take a woman who fits that bill.. and make her kick ass.. she typically does become quite amazing and iconic.
Yeah take Buffy the Vampire Slayer, she was very feminine but that didn't stop her from being a bad ass.

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Old 09-08-2013, 08:25 PM   #545
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5 -

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Why does she have to be called Ms. you're deliberately reducing her to her gender. Captain Marvel works better.
Doing so essentially eliminates the Aura/majesty of having Mar-Vell in the MCU. His original title goes to someone else. I don't mind if Mar-Vell passes the title down to her. It seems inevitable that at some point we will see Mar-Vell. He will be Captain Marvel, if that's the case.

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Old 09-08-2013, 09:07 PM   #546
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5 -

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I prefer the name "Ms. Marvel" because it's unique and sums up something essential about the character. She's supposed to be a superheroine for the post-feminist era, to contrast with most of the other Marvel heroines, who were mostly from the Stan Lee era and had more passive powers. There's even an Avengers issue where Wonder Man, being kind of a chauvinist, is disconcerted by Carol because she actually punches people, and he's used to heroines like Scarlet Witch who zap people from a distance. "Captain Marvel" is less dated but it's also one of the most generic names in superherodom, and combined with her generic new outfit it's hard to know who she is from hearing about her or looking at her. It seems weird that Marvel tried so hard to build Carol up as a star and then abandoned the name and visual trademarks to start almost from scratch. They could have let her wear pants and still kept the black mask.

I do like Carol and think there's a movie in her origin concept. She's basically Lois Lane if she got superpowers (again) and kept them. A superhero's girlfriend who gets her boyfriend's powers, and combines them with her own background and training to be a different kind of superhero. It's a good, simple story that could work. I don't know that the comics are doing her any favors though, over-pushing her and constantly changing her at the same time. But for a female-led movie I don't know what other choices they'd have; Scarlet Witch is a better Avenger (even after the comics did everything they could to get rid of her) but couldn't carry a solo movie, and most of their other women are property of the X-franchise.
Yeah, the use of Ms is unique & I much prefer it to Captain Marvel. If anything using Captain Marvel seems even more like trying to emphasise that.. HEY we've got a woman here! You thought "Captain" would be a man but NO!!

And linked to what you say about Wonder Man's attitude, that's exactly what I want to see. A front line female superhero who can get physical, & take and land good hits on other super powered beings. Having Scarlet Witch is great & will improve the variation (in powers & gender) of the team (assuming she joins) but I'd love to see Ms Marvel join in Avengers 3.

And welcome to the Hype & good 1st post.

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Old 09-08-2013, 10:53 PM   #547
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To be honest, at this point, the only thing that I'm mostly concerned and hoping for is that Joss has grown a lot as a filmmaker since having made "The Avengers" and that he shoots this film on a much better level than his previous film.

I know it's silly but whenever I watch the film on Blu-ray, I still can't get over at times on how it looks like it was shot in a way as though it were a TV episode with a massive budget.

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Old 09-08-2013, 11:05 PM   #548
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To be honest, at this point, the only thing that I'm mostly concerned and hoping for is that Joss has grown a lot as a filmmaker since having made "The Avengers" and that he shoots this film on a much better level than his previous film.

I know it's silly but whenever I watch the film on Blu-ray, I still can't get over at times on how it looks like it was shot in a way as though it were a TV episode with a massive budget.
Well, he was, primarily a television director, anyway, right?

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Old 09-08-2013, 11:20 PM   #549
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Well, he was, primarily a television director, anyway, right?
Pretty much, but I've seen some television directors able to still film feature length films in a more cinematic way than Whedon was able to in "The Avengers".

I think one of Whedon's weaknesses is that he doesn't have that great of a visual eye for certain things. I mean the Hulk was one of the rare exceptions since he managed to get the Hulk's look right but I think that was more attributed to him being more of a comic book fan than any director who's tackled the character.

I mean just look at Captain America's and Thor's outfits in "The Avengers" as opposed to their outfits in their solo films. I've read many complaints on how people thought that the designs and fabrics for their Avengers getup looked like it was made for a TV movie whereas their solo film costumes haven't received such criticism as far as I've seen at least.

And I think another issue is that Whedon relied too much on using the visual panels from comics to map out on how he'd shoot certain moments in film, when he could have done a better job in making them look better on film while using the comics as inspiration.

Plus, the fact that his film is like the only film shot on a TV aspect ratio when compared to the rest of the MCU films is a strange thing as well.

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Old 09-08-2013, 11:24 PM   #550
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Default Re: The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Upgrade section 5 -

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Pretty much, but I've seen some television directors able to still film feature length films in a more cinematic way than Whedon was able to in "The Avengers".

I think one of Whedon's weaknesses is that he doesn't have that great of a visual eye for certain things. I mean the Hulk was one of the rare exceptions since he managed to get the Hulk's look right but I think that was more attributed to him being more of a comic book fan than any director who's tackled the character.

I mean just look at Captain America's and Thor's outfits in "The Avengers" as opposed to their outfits in their solo films. I've read many complaints on how people thought that the designs and fabrics for their Avengers getup looked like it was made for a TV movie whereas their solo film costumes haven't received such criticism as far as I've seen at least.

And I think another issue is that Whedon relied too much on using the visual panels from comics to map out on how he'd shoot certain moments in film, when he could have done a better job in making them look better on film while using the comics as inspiration.

Plus, the fact that his film is like the only film shot on a TV aspect ratio when compared to the rest of the MCU films is a strange thing as well.
But there's a strap across his chest! It covers the star! HE CAN'T BE CAPTAIN AMERICA IF THERE'S A STRAP COVERING THE STAR!!!


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