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Old 08-27-2013, 02:38 AM   #1
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Default Dying Vet's letter to George Bush & Dick Cheney

Dying vet’s ‘**** you’ letter to George Bush & Dick Cheney needs to be read by every american
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to: George w. Bush and dick cheney
from: Tomas young

i write this letter on the 10th anniversary of the iraq war on behalf of my fellow iraq war veterans. I write this letter on behalf of the 4,488 soldiers and marines who died in iraq. I write this letter on behalf of the hundreds of thousands of veterans who have been wounded and on behalf of those whose wounds, physical and psychological, have destroyed their lives. I am one of those gravely wounded. I was paralyzed in an insurgent ambush in 2004 in sadr city. My life is coming to an end. I am living under hospice care.

I write this letter on behalf of husbands and wives who have lost spouses, on behalf of children who have lost a parent, on behalf of the fathers and mothers who have lost sons and daughters and on behalf of those who care for the many thousands of my fellow veterans who have brain injuries. I write this letter on behalf of those veterans whose trauma and self-revulsion for what they have witnessed, endured and done in iraq have led to suicide and on behalf of the active-duty soldiers and marines who commit, on average, a suicide a day. I write this letter on behalf of the some 1 million iraqi dead and on behalf of the countless iraqi wounded. I write this letter on behalf of us all—the human detritus your war has left behind, those who will spend their lives in unending pain and grief.

I write this letter, my last letter, to you, mr. Bush and mr. Cheney. I write not because i think you grasp the terrible human and moral consequences of your lies, manipulation and thirst for wealth and power. I write this letter because, before my own death, i want to make it clear that i, and hundreds of thousands of my fellow veterans, along with millions of my fellow citizens, along with hundreds of millions more in iraq and the middle east, know fully who you are and what you have done. You may evade justice but in our eyes you are each guilty of egregious war crimes, of plunder and, finally, of murder, including the murder of thousands of young americans—my fellow veterans—whose future you stole.

Your positions of authority, your millions of dollars of personal wealth, your public relations consultants, your privilege and your power cannot mask the hollowness of your character. You sent us to fight and die in iraq after you, mr. Cheney, dodged the draft in vietnam, and you, mr. Bush, went awol from your national guard unit. Your cowardice and selfishness were established decades ago. You were not willing to risk yourselves for our nation but you sent hundreds of thousands of young men and women to be sacrificed in a senseless war with no more thought than it takes to put out the garbage.

I joined the army two days after the 9/11 attacks. I joined the army because our country had been attacked. I wanted to strike back at those who had killed some 3,000 of my fellow citizens. I did not join the army to go to iraq, a country that had no part in the september 2001 attacks and did not pose a threat to its neighbors, much less to the united states. I did not join the army to “liberate” iraqis or to shut down mythical weapons-of-mass-destruction facilities or to implant what you cynically called “democracy” in baghdad and the middle east. I did not join the army to rebuild iraq, which at the time you told us could be paid for by iraq’s oil revenues. Instead, this war has cost the united states over $3 trillion. I especially did not join the army to carry out pre-emptive war. Pre-emptive war is illegal under international law. And as a soldier in iraq i was, i now know, abetting your idiocy and your crimes. The iraq war is the largest strategic blunder in u.s. History. It obliterated the balance of power in the middle east. It installed a corrupt and brutal pro-iranian government in baghdad, one cemented in power through the use of torture, death squads and terror. And it has left iran as the dominant force in the region. On every level—moral, strategic, military and economic—iraq was a failure. And it was you, mr. Bush and mr. Cheney, who started this war. It is you who should pay the consequences.

I would not be writing this letter if i had been wounded fighting in afghanistan against those forces that carried out the attacks of 9/11. Had i been wounded there i would still be miserable because of my physical deterioration and imminent death, but i would at least have the comfort of knowing that my injuries were a consequence of my own decision to defend the country i love. I would not have to lie in my bed, my body filled with painkillers, my life ebbing away, and deal with the fact that hundreds of thousands of human beings, including children, including myself, were sacrificed by you for little more than the greed of oil companies, for your alliance with the oil sheiks in saudi arabia, and your insane visions of empire.

I have, like many other disabled veterans, suffered from the inadequate and often inept care provided by the veterans administration. I have, like many other disabled veterans, come to realize that our mental and physical wounds are of no interest to you, perhaps of no interest to any politician. We were used. We were betrayed. And we have been abandoned. You, mr. Bush, make much pretense of being a christian. But isn’t lying a sin? Isn’t murder a sin? Aren’t theft and selfish ambition sins? I am not a christian. But i believe in the christian ideal. I believe that what you do to the least of your brothers you finally do to yourself, to your own soul.

My day of reckoning is upon me. Yours will come. I hope you will be put on trial. But mostly i hope, for your sakes, that you find the moral courage to face what you have done to me and to many, many others who deserved to live. I hope that before your time on earth ends, as mine is now ending, you will find the strength of character to stand before the american public and the world, and in particular the iraqi people, and beg for forgiveness.

—tomas young
http://dangerousminds.net/comments/d...eds_to_be_read

I feel sorry for this guy. He is sure through a lot of pain and misery. But kudos to him for writing all these words.

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Old 08-27-2013, 12:11 PM   #2
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Default Re: Dying Vet's letter to George Bush & Dick Cheney

I agree with every word!

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Old 08-27-2013, 02:00 PM   #3
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Default Re: Dying Vet's letter to George Bush & Dick Cheney

Unfortunately, I doubt Bush or Cheney will ever have to face any sort of trial, or consequences for their actions.

However, history, if it remembers them at all, will judge them very harshly.

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Old 08-27-2013, 04:55 PM   #4
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Default Re: Dying Vet's letter to George Bush & Dick Cheney

I feel for the guy, but he really is dead wrong on a lot of things in that letter.

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Old 08-27-2013, 05:14 PM   #5
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Default Re: Dying Vet's letter to George Bush & Dick Cheney

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Originally Posted by hippie_hunter View Post
I feel for the guy, but he really is dead wrong on a lot of things in that letter.
What do you mean?

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Old 08-27-2013, 05:26 PM   #6
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Default Re: Dying Vet's letter to George Bush & Dick Cheney

Powerful words. Every incoming president should be forced to read them.

If he does die soon I hope he does rest in peace. He deserves it.

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Old 08-28-2013, 12:17 AM   #7
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Default Re: Dying Vet's letter to George Bush & Dick Cheney

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Originally Posted by Alex_Spider View Post
What do you mean?
Like how stating that pre-emptive war is illegal under international law is somehow relevant because it's an unenforceable law (particularly when a major power does it, much of what is stated in international law means jack squat) or how the Bush Administration intentionally lied about WMDs (almost every major intelligence agency had the same conclusions and various inquiries determined that the evidence was just simply wrong, not doctored) and it really isn't the biggest blunder in US strategic history (I would say that the Vietnam War, supporting the Mujaheddin in Afghanistan, not joining the League of Nations, and a few others rank higher than Iraq).

I think that the Iraq War was total ********. But I think that we need to criticize it on its poor merits like the horrible strategy that was implemented or how it overstretched US forces or the complete or how we overthrew the legitimate government of Iraq (which wasn't acting completely belligerent at the time) simply because it didn't comply to the standards of an outside power or the complete hypocrisy involved as opposed to things that really aren't true.

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Old 08-28-2013, 12:38 AM   #8
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Cs Funny Re: Dying Vet's letter to George Bush & Dick Cheney

I'm willing to accept that Bush was simply a negligent moron. That still means he's accountable, but should get some leniency, since he's obviously not the brains of the outfit.

But Cheney and Rumsfeld outright profited from the war. He gave non-bid contracts directly to his former business pals, which Bush would (and should) presumably be aware of. They even went after a whistleblower who exposed that.

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Old 08-28-2013, 02:50 AM   #9
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Default Re: Dying Vet's letter to George Bush & Dick Cheney

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But Cheney and Rumsfeld outright profited from the war. He gave non-bid contracts directly to his former business pals, which Bush would (and should) presumably be aware of. They even went after a whistleblower who exposed that.
I think everyone is aware of the Halliburton scandal.

VIDEO-CLick to Watch!:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FJC_OrO3Nw

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This video describes how Halliburton is poisoning the troops in Iraq through their water supply.

If you are a war vet there is information at the end of the video as to where you can get tested.
It's amazing and frustrating at the same time how these crooked politicians like Chaney not only get huge profits from wars, but have the nerve to harm even the US soldiers in the process along with the women and children of the enemy and not caring at all. This goes to show you about the integrity of the men that are supposed to lead us and be example.

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Old 08-28-2013, 02:56 AM   #10
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Default Re: Dying Vet's letter to George Bush & Dick Cheney

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Originally Posted by hippie_hunter View Post
Like how stating that pre-emptive war is illegal under international law is somehow relevant because it's an unenforceable law (particularly when a major power does it, much of what is stated in international law means jack squat) or how the Bush Administration intentionally lied about WMDs (almost every major intelligence agency had the same conclusions and various inquiries determined that the evidence was just simply wrong, not doctored) and it really isn't the biggest blunder in US strategic history (I would say that the Vietnam War, supporting the Mujaheddin in Afghanistan, not joining the League of Nations, and a few others rank higher than Iraq).

I think that the Iraq War was total ********. But I think that we need to criticize it on its poor merits like the horrible strategy that was implemented or how it overstretched US forces or the complete or how we overthrew the legitimate government of Iraq (which wasn't acting completely belligerent at the time) simply because it didn't comply to the standards of an outside power or the complete hypocrisy involved as opposed to things that really aren't true.
I think it's fair to say the Bush administration cherry picked intelligence to justify an unneeded pre-emptive strike on Iraq. That to some is just as bad as flat out lying.

Why would it be okay to break international law simply because America can get away with it? This veteran is absolutely correct to point out the illegality of the Iraq War.

I wouldn't say Vietnam was the biggest blunder in US history. It was a necessary growing pain for our democracy whereas Iraq and everything related to the War on Terror seems like a huge step backwards. But of course a Vietnam Vet could say Vietnam was the worst and a confederacy sympathizer would say the Civil War was the worst, etc. So the biggest blunder is largely subjective.

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Old 08-28-2013, 08:54 AM   #11
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Default Re: Dying Vet's letter to George Bush & Dick Cheney

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I think it's fair to say the Bush administration cherry picked intelligence to justify an unneeded pre-emptive strike on Iraq. That to some is just as bad as flat out lying.
Except they really didn't cherry pick either. The major intelligence agencies (from the US, Britain, Australia, Germany, France, Israel, Russia, etc.) all concluded that Iraq had a WMD program. Inquiries in the United States and Britain concluded that the evidence was not doctored up by the Bush or Blair Administrations. The simple fact of the matter is that this was the biggest error in intelligence history. It's why intelligence agencies are a lot more cautious in today's day and age.

Quote:
Why would it be okay to break international law simply because America can get away with it? This veteran is absolutely correct to point out the illegality of the Iraq War.
International law really doesn't mean a whole lot because national law > international law. A sovereign nation doesn't have to observe certain international laws if they so choose to. International law in all aspects from trade to war and whatnot are constantly violated. International law is even less effective when major powers like the United States or China don't give a crap about it.

Quote:
I wouldn't say Vietnam was the biggest blunder in US history. It was a necessary growing pain for our democracy whereas Iraq and everything related to the War on Terror seems like a huge step backwards. But of course a Vietnam Vet could say Vietnam was the worst and a confederacy sympathizer would say the Civil War was the worst, etc. So the biggest blunder is largely subjective.
I don't think it was a necessary growing pain for our nation to treat our veterans like **** after all the crap they went through in Vietnam. It's absolutely shameful and just flat out wrong. From the way it turned the mood in our nation, to the much higher casualties, to the absolute failure of the objectives, to the Domino Theory, and most of all not accepting Ho Chi Minn simply because he was a Communist, far bigger objective blunder than Iraq.

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Old 08-28-2013, 08:59 AM   #12
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Default Re: Dying Vet's letter to George Bush & Dick Cheney

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Except they really didn't cherry pick either. The major intelligence agencies (from the US, Britain, Australia, Germany, France, Israel, Russia, etc.) all concluded that Iraq had a WMD program. Inquiries in the United States and Britain concluded that the evidence was not doctored up by the Bush or Blair Administrations. The simple fact of the matter is that this was the biggest error in intelligence history. It's why intelligence agencies are a lot more cautious in today's day and age.
No it wasn't an error. Alot of the evidence they were using was questionable and known to be questionable but they used it anyways because it suited their agenda. It's a basic case that anything that supported the agenda no matter how questionable it or the person saying it was used as evidence, while anything or anybody that went against the agenda basically got muzzled.

For Instance

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3056626.stm

Quote:
The CIA warned the US Government that claims about Iraq's nuclear ambitions were not true months before President Bush used them to make his case for war, the BBC has learned.

Doubts about a claim that Iraq had tried to buy uranium from the African state of Niger were aired 10 months before Mr Bush included the allegation in his key State of the Union address this year, a CIA official has told the BBC.

On Tuesday, the White House for the first time officially acknowledged that the Niger claim was wrong and suggested it should not have been used in the president's State of the Union speech in January.

But the CIA official has said that a former US diplomat had already established the claim was false in March 2002 - and that the information had been passed on to government departments, including the White House, well before Mr Bush mentioned it in the speech.


Personally for me I could tell it was a pile of BS when they tried linking(through loose rhetoric) Iraq and Al Queda together. I may not have a great understanding of middle east politics but I know that those 2 things don't mix well together so trying to act like they similar was a huge red flag in my books(it basically felt like muddying up the waters to try get people on their side using the tragedy of 9-11).


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Old 08-28-2013, 09:31 AM   #13
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Default Re: Dying Vet's letter to George Bush & Dick Cheney

Yeah, how do you accidentally accuse another country of having WMDs especially when your job is to gather global intelligence.

That's like the top detective of a police force falsely accusing the 14 year old down the street of having a meth lab after years of research and surveillance.

It wasn't an accident.

The Bush Administration wanted to invade Iraq since day one.

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Old 08-28-2013, 09:44 AM   #14
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That's like the top detective of a police force falsely accusing the 14 year old down the street of having a meth lab after years of research and surveillance.
I would argue it's a police officer searching for evidence for a long time and finding nothing till somebody else writes on facebook that the 14 year old has a meth lab and going on that info(completely ignoring the kid who wrote that on facebook has 0 credibility). Even when a lower level officer whose job it is to do fact checking comes and tells the main cop that the kid on facebook has an issue with the 14 year old and just wrote that to get him in trouble the police take that facebook post as the smoking gun and goes with that ignoring the warning of the lower level fact checker. lol


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Old 08-28-2013, 02:52 PM   #15
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Default Re: Dying Vet's letter to George Bush & Dick Cheney

That was a load of garbage, just like the link that was posted and the site it was supposedly posted on. Also, considering the letter was posted back in March of this year, seems like someone is a little slow in picking this up and just likes to post anti-Republican, anti-American stuff no matter when the original release date of things.


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Old 08-28-2013, 03:33 PM   #16
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Default Re: Dying Vet's letter to George Bush & Dick Cheney

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Originally Posted by Webfoot Hero View Post
That was a load of garbage, just like the link that was posted and the site it was supposedly posted on. Also, considering the letter was posted back in March of this year, seems like someone is a little slow in picking this up and just likes to post anti-Republican, anti-American stuff no matter when the original release date of things.
I don't know why the link went down. Doesn't matter though you can google the title and find it in other sites as well. I see you have lots of issues with this post. So, just because this letter was written in March, I have no right posting it in the politics section after a few months? Would you feel better if I posted news of the day? Funny out of all the people that commented you are the only one complaining about.

Oh, and just so I can clarify my self I am not an anti-Republican or anti-American person. I am anti-injustice or anti-warmonger for the lack of a better word. And so you can see that I don't have an "anti-american" agenda, recently I posted a health related link about the correct position we should take in the bathroom. You should check it. Might enlighten a bit your narrow perception of things.

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Old 08-28-2013, 05:42 PM   #17
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Default Re: Dying Vet's letter to George Bush & Dick Cheney

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That was a load of garbage, just like the link that was posted and the site it was supposedly posted on. Also, considering the letter was posted back in March of this year, seems like someone is a little slow in picking this up and just likes to post anti-Republican, anti-American stuff no matter when the original release date of things.

Being against the war in Iraq and not being a fan of George Bush is being "anti-American"?

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Old 08-28-2013, 06:06 PM   #18
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Default Re: Dying Vet's letter to George Bush & Dick Cheney

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Being against the war in Iraq and not being a fan of George Bush is being "anti-American"?
Don't you remember the 2004 election, they were pushing being against the Iraq war made you anti American :P

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Old 08-28-2013, 09:27 PM   #19
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Default Re: Dying Vet's letter to George Bush & Dick Cheney

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No it wasn't an error. Alot of the evidence they were using was questionable and known to be questionable but they used it anyways because it suited their agenda. It's a basic case that anything that supported the agenda no matter how questionable it or the person saying it was used as evidence, while anything or anybody that went against the agenda basically got muzzled.

For Instance

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3056626.stm



Personally for me I could tell it was a pile of BS when they tried linking(through loose rhetoric) Iraq and Al Queda together. I may not have a great understanding of middle east politics but I know that those 2 things don't mix well together so trying to act like they similar was a huge red flag in my books(it basically felt like muddying up the waters to try get people on their side using the tragedy of 9-11).
Well the people I've talked to who used to work in intelligence during that time and the text books I've read all pointed to that was a huge **** up.

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Old 08-28-2013, 09:33 PM   #20
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Default Re: Dying Vet's letter to George Bush & Dick Cheney

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Yeah, how do you accidentally accuse another country of having WMDs especially when your job is to gather global intelligence.

That's like the top detective of a police force falsely accusing the 14 year old down the street of having a meth lab after years of research and surveillance.

It wasn't an accident.
Saddam intentionally fooled the international community. He didn't think that the United States would overthrow him over WMDs, just occasionally bomb him like what Bill Clinton did during Operation Desert Fox. He was afraid of the Iranians and they were the ones he really wanted to think that he had WMDs. Tensions between Saddam's regime and the Iranian Ayatollahs were still incredibly tense for years after the Iran-Iraq War and he feared that without the threat of WMDs to back him up, the Iranians would strike him.

Quote:
The Bush Administration wanted to invade Iraq since day one.
Bush's war on Iraq was essentially the culmination of Clintonian policy towards Iraq. The Democrats wanted Saddam gone just as much as the Bush Administration. And dare I say that I do think that Bush was genuinely serious about bringing Western values to the Middle East. He was stupid and horribly naive with his policy, but unlike other members of his administration (like Cheney and Rumsfeld), but I do think that Bush wanted to reshape the Middle East away from dictatorships like in Iran, Syria, and Iraq and impose Western values into the region.

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Old 08-28-2013, 09:34 PM   #21
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Default Re: Dying Vet's letter to George Bush & Dick Cheney

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Being against the war in Iraq and not being a fan of George Bush is being "anti-American"?
It just seems most of the stuff he posts is either anti-American or, what I should have stated more precisely earlier, anti-government garbage that has strong anarchist overtones to them.

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Old 08-28-2013, 09:34 PM   #22
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Default Re: Dying Vet's letter to George Bush & Dick Cheney

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Originally Posted by Webfoot Hero View Post
That was a load of garbage, just like the link that was posted and the site it was supposedly posted on. Also, considering the letter was posted back in March of this year, seems like someone is a little slow in picking this up and just likes to post anti-Republican, anti-American stuff no matter when the original release date of things.
While the guy is inaccurate about things in his letter, I really can't blame the guy for being angry about the Iraq War. It isn't anti-American or anti-Republican to rightfully criticize policy that was so horribly bungled.

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Old 08-29-2013, 04:27 PM   #23
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Default Re: Dying Vet's letter to George Bush & Dick Cheney

I'm sorry, but even if there WERE concrete evidence of saddam having WMDs (there wasn't), we still went against the UN when they told us NOT TO DO IT. In what way was it any of our business to continue with our plans, that frankly did not affect us? instead using our emotions from our recent tragedy to fire up the American populace into a rage that somehow justified it?

No matter how you slice it, Bush and Cheney lead us into a war nobody agreed with using intelligence that provided no definitive proof of their assertions regarding WMDs. And they did so by generally asserting that it was in retaliation to an event which had nothing to do with Iraq.

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Old 08-29-2013, 04:35 PM   #24
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Default Re: Dying Vet's letter to George Bush & Dick Cheney

I'm conflicted. On the one hand I was against the Iraq War, since the US went in for all the wrong reasons, but I'm all for ignoring the UN, plus Saddam was a war criminal and a mass murderer.

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Old 08-29-2013, 05:01 PM   #25
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Posts: 2,398
Default Re: Dying Vet's letter to George Bush & Dick Cheney

Quote:
Originally Posted by Webfoot Hero View Post
It just seems most of the stuff he posts is either anti-American or, what I should have stated more precisely earlier, anti-government garbage that has strong anarchist overtones to them.
Do you realize that by calling my thread a garbage, you are offending the poor soldier who wrote this letter, along with the thousands other soldiers that got physically and emotionally wounded from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and they realized their true purpose in this dirty political-economic cheme.
There are many other soldiers like Thomas Young that share his thoughts in the letter which so easily you discarded. Do you consider them to be also "anti-American or anti-government with strong anarchist overtones? "

Now take away your narrow conservative view and the quit the name calling, because obviously you can't add anything to the thread nor to the society.

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