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Old 08-28-2013, 02:38 PM   #51
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Default Re: How will Ben Affleck stack up against the other Batmen?

The definitive Batman actor, IMO, will be the one who has the GA talking about him when they leave the theater, and not the villain.

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Old 08-28-2013, 03:26 PM   #52
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Default Re: How will Ben Affleck stack up against the other Batmen?

I don't think it is an unfair question to ask how Ben Affleck could do in the role in comparison to the other actors. We all know Mr. Affleck well enough to know his skillset as an actor, and we've seen him play roles that are similar to Bruce Wayne AND Batman (Daredevil). I think its fun to speculate how Affleck will do.

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Old 08-28-2013, 03:34 PM   #53
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Default Re: How will Ben Affleck stack up against the other Batmen?

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The definitive Batman actor, IMO, will be the one who has the GA talking about him when they leave the theater, and not the villain.
Batman has the best rogues gallery so its not surprising that the GA usually leaves a film talking about the villain.

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Old 08-28-2013, 04:18 PM   #54
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Default Re: How will Ben Affleck stack up against the other Batmen?

He can't be worse than Clooney.


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Old 08-28-2013, 04:32 PM   #55
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Default Re: How will Ben Affleck stack up against the other Batmen?

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The definitive Batman actor, IMO, will be the one who has the GA talking about him when they leave the theater, and not the villain.
That's impossible when the Joker is the villain. There's no way out of that.

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Old 08-28-2013, 05:06 PM   #56
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Default Re: How will Ben Affleck stack up against the other Batmen?

I think he can't be any worse than any Bat-actor so far, (BTW< I don't think Clooney was that bad , he was just surrounded by so much suckage, it sorta just rubbed off on him)and he has the potential to be the best Batman we've ever gotten. We'll just have to wait and see, there's no way to predict how exactly he will do.

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Old 08-28-2013, 05:36 PM   #57
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Default Re: How will Ben Affleck stack up against the other Batmen?

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Batman has the best rogues gallery so its not surprising that the GA usually leaves a film talking about the villain.
It's not surprising, but I still think the GA could leave the theater talking about Batman as well. Then again, I think cinematic Batman is often held back, which dosen't help matters.

The only versions of Batman where I feel the conversation isn't overwhelmingly about the villains are the TAS and the 60's show.

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That's impossible when the Joker is the villain. There's no way out of that.
I don't think that's necesarily true. Looking at both of Joker's big screen apperances, Burton purposely placed Batman more in the shadows while giving us a full origin of Joker, while Nolan admittedly made Harvey Dent the actual protagonist of TDK, in addition to Ledger's memorable performance. I'd like to see what would happen if Joker were in a BB style film, where Bruce is absolutely the dominant focus of the film, and he purposely isn't written in way that allows the villains to get more spotlight.

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Old 08-28-2013, 06:17 PM   #58
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Default Re: How will Ben Affleck stack up against the other Batmen?

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It's not surprising, but I still think the GA could leave the theater talking about Batman as well. Then again, I think cinematic Batman is often held back, which dosen't help matters.

The only versions of Batman where I feel the conversation isn't overwhelmingly about the villains are the TAS and the 60's show.

I don't think that's necesarily true. Looking at both of Joker's big screen apperances, Burton purposely placed Batman more in the shadows while giving us a full origin of Joker, while Nolan admittedly made Harvey Dent the actual protagonist of TDK, in addition to Ledger's memorable performance. I'd like to see what would happen if Joker were in a BB style film, where Bruce is absolutely the dominant focus of the film, and he purposely isn't written in way that allows the villains to get more spotlight.
Actually, that's not true. I remember a lot of the attention went to the villains in the '66 TV show, mostly because of the actors who played them, as they were mostly quite well known. popular, and respected actors with relatively long careers, as opposed to Adam West, a relative newcomer who had only been in a few TV shows and some commercials. I do remember there was much more talk about the villains on the show than Batman himself.

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Old 08-28-2013, 07:06 PM   #59
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Default Re: How will Ben Affleck stack up against the other Batmen?

^ Having not been around at the time, I have no doubt that you're right. With the 60's show, my opinions are rooted in hindsight. Compared to back then, Adam West's profile has been raised and even today, he still has a career. Most of the big name actors are dead now, and are barely remembered by today's generation.

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Old 08-28-2013, 07:32 PM   #60
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Default Re: How will Ben Affleck stack up against the other Batmen?

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I don't think that's necesarily true. Looking at both of Joker's big screen apperances, Burton purposely placed Batman more in the shadows while giving us a full origin of Joker, while Nolan admittedly made Harvey Dent the actual protagonist of TDK, in addition to Ledger's memorable performance. I'd like to see what would happen if Joker were in a BB style film, where Bruce is absolutely the dominant focus of the film, and he purposely isn't written in way that allows the villains to get more spotlight.
The first time I saw The Dark Knight I thought it was The Joker's film. Second time I thought it was Harvey Dent's. But from the third viewing onwards I started to realise that it's absolutely Batman and Bruce Wayne's movie, just as much as the first film.

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Old 08-28-2013, 08:08 PM   #61
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Default Re: How will Ben Affleck stack up against the other Batmen?

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I'll never understand why anyone liked Kilmer's Batman/Bruce Wayne. He was either flat to the point of acting catatonic, or just over-the-top awful "HAAARRVEEEEEEY! IIIII'MMMM BATMAAAAAN!"
I thought Kilmer did a great job in his quieter moments as Bruce Wayne. All the psychoanalyst stuff with Chase and his nightmares was well done. Shame the script and his Batman were just bad though. He could've been a force under a difference director.


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The definitive Batman actor, IMO, will be the one who has the GA talking about him when they leave the theater, and not the villain.
Can't you say this about Bale in Batman Begins? Arguably the first time Bruce was at the forefront of the film. Albeit this victory is not so bright because the villains were also heavily underutilized.

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Old 08-28-2013, 08:21 PM   #62
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Default Re: How will Ben Affleck stack up against the other Batmen?

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Yeah, right. Pacino is overrated, too, right? Just see Gigli and Jack & Jill.
What movies are those?

Spoiler!!! Click to Read!:

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Old 08-28-2013, 08:24 PM   #63
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Default Re: How will Ben Affleck stack up against the other Batmen?

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Affleck is a better director than Snyder. I would be more confidence if he was directing the movie.
Is not.

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Old 08-29-2013, 01:54 AM   #64
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Default Re: How will Ben Affleck stack up against the other Batmen?

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The definitive Batman actor, IMO, will be the one who has the GA talking about him when they leave the theater, and not the villain.
So, Bale in BB.

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Old 08-29-2013, 01:55 AM   #65
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Default Re: How will Ben Affleck stack up against the other Batmen?

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Is not.
You're right, they shouldn't even be compared. The former directs films, the latter glorified video-clips.

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Old 08-29-2013, 02:06 AM   #66
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Default Re: How will Ben Affleck stack up against the other Batmen?

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/enter...fanboys/68785/
lol!!!! El is trying to distance hard on a rumor that he first started

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Old 08-29-2013, 02:14 AM   #67
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Default Re: How will Ben Affleck stack up against the other Batmen?

If you want a Batman movie where people talk about Batman/the actor before the villains? It was called Batman Begins.

And while I was not around for the '60s show, judging from the way people talk about it and it is eulogized, it seems that Burgess Meredith, Caesar Romero, Frank Gorshin and Julie Newmar far overshadowed the dynamic duo. Indeed, it was the basis for how studio execs saw the villains in relation to Batman for the entire run of the initial series before Nolan.

Anyway, I think it is a bit unfair to guess how Affleck will stack up now. But personally, I have not seen him give a leading performance as compelling as Keaton or Bale's to date. I also think he will be saddled with the fact that Zack Snyder is no Christopher Nolan.

Could still be very interesting though. I have qualms with Batman Returns, but Keaton is great in that.

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Old 08-29-2013, 03:00 AM   #68
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Default Re: How will Ben Affleck stack up against the other Batmen?

Here's my opinion.

There have been some great and not so great performances by various
actors as Batman, but the success/failure of the various films has
to rest with the writers and director.

More than any actor being the "definitive " Batman, I think it's more like
was that actor portraying Batman correctly within the film they were
given.

The question isn't so much "Will Affleck's Batman equal Bale's?" because
really that's what we're all thinking. Bale set a new high as Bats.

Instead, the question is " Will Affleck's Batman be convincing and enjoyable?"
this is a different Batman, a different universe (I think, I'll have to ask
Nolan next time I see him, LOL !), we have to see how Affleck performs
given the script that he's given and Snyder's direction.

All in all I have very high hopes, I really enjoyed "The Town" . The biggest
challenge will be the voice (and hey people, Bale has done some stinky
films too !).

Here's my personal Batman rankings.

#1 Christian Bale. While Batman is about fear, and conquering it, Batman is also about anger, about rage, and nobody does rage like Bale (e.g. the Joker' interrogation room scene) . I liked the Nolan films, and I think Bale did a great job in BB, establishing the character from scratch. Nolan provided the script,the direction and the aesthetic. Bale made excellent use of it, he's a great actor. (Any Bale fans who haven't seen the Fighter, there's the proof).
I grew up with Dark Knight Returns and Batman Year ONe, and I felt Nolan was the closest to capturing the spirit of that material.


#2 Michael Keaton. Trod a fine line between serious and silly, but did it brilliantly. Burton's Batman was very much an 80's creature. It worked back then, and is still an enjoyable watch now. You like Keaton's Batman, but
he's not as intimidating as Bale's Batman.

#3 Adam West. I remember being a kid in kindergarden and coming home to reruns of Batman. Pow ! Bam ! It was incredibly silly, but it got the caped crusader through the 60's, and the great Batman stories of the 80's/90's (and those more recent, like the Court of Owls) are a reaction against it.
I reckon whenever a Batman writer writes a funny line in a comic, an editor makes him watch Adam West do the Batusi, and have a re-think1

#4 Val Kilmer. Did the best with what he had, but didn't bring the presence that he brought to his more iconic roles (my favourite being Doc Holliday in Tombstone), he owned those characters, but it felt like he was only renting the Batsuit. A lot of that blame has to fall on Schumacher, but Kilmer is good enough to do better with that material ( case in point, Jim Carrey stole EVERY scene he was in, and his lines were even more ludicrous, Tommy Lee Jones was simply dreadful).

#5 George Clooney. Do I really have to explain this ? It's true, he had crap material to work with, but really good actors can do amazing things with small roles. Clooney phoned this one in.


How will Affleck fare ? If he can play off Cavill, Adams and Cranston well,
and make a passable attempt at the Bat-voice, then he should be fine.
I think he's a much more legitimate choice than a lot of the other guys considered for the role (although Gerard Butler was my favourite).
As I said, I have high hopes for Affleck, roll on BM vs SM.


Peace.

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Old 08-29-2013, 03:04 AM   #69
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Default Re: How will Ben Affleck stack up against the other Batmen?

Interesting that you included Cranston. He ain't Lex.

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Old 08-29-2013, 04:20 AM   #70
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Default Re: How will Ben Affleck stack up against the other Batmen?

I think he'll do just fine, and I'm hoping he turns out to be the best Batman. Bale will be hard to top I think, but I reckon he'll put Keaton, Kilmer and Clooney all to shame.
I believe it will hinge on how Affleck approaches Bruce Wayne. He'll nail Batman though.

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Old 08-29-2013, 01:09 PM   #71
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Can't you say this about Bale in Batman Begins? Arguably the first time Bruce was at the forefront of the film. Albeit this victory is not so bright because the villains were also heavily underutilized.
The bold sums up why I purposely didn't mention BB as an ideal example. It's easy to make Bruce the main/scene stealing focus when you scale down both of your villains.

Not to mention that BB wasn't a "must see" movie the same way B89/BR/BF and TDK/TDKR were.

An ideal Batfilm would have villains with Ledger/Hardy level performances, but with a BB style focus on why Bruce is a great character. No need to dress down the villains to keep focus on Bruce, or have the villains run rings around Batman to make the villains a threat.

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The first time I saw The Dark Knight I thought it was The Joker's film. Second time I thought it was Harvey Dent's. But from the third viewing onwards I started to realise that it's absolutely Batman and Bruce Wayne's movie, just as much as the first film.
TDK is undoubtedly about Batman. But the case can be made that Bruce Wayne isn't the protagonist.

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Old 08-29-2013, 01:11 PM   #72
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Default Re: How will Ben Affleck stack up against the other Batmen?

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I don't think it is an unfair question to ask how Ben Affleck could do in the role in comparison to the other actors. We all know Mr. Affleck well enough to know his skillset as an actor, and we've seen him play roles that are similar to Bruce Wayne AND Batman (Daredevil). I think its fun to speculate how Affleck will do.
Yes it is unfair. By your logic back in '88' GA were assuming Keaton was going to be a campy Batman b/c he was mostly known as a comedian at that time (eventhough he starred in Clean & Sober that same year). And Keaton gave the GA the opposite of what they were expecting from his performance. The same could happen to Affleck. I think it's better to compare Affleck and the other Batman actors once the movie's released and when everyone's seen it, imho. B/c as they say the proof is in the pudding.

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Old 08-29-2013, 04:50 PM   #73
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Default Re: How will Ben Affleck stack up against the other Batmen?

I think Affleck's Batman will be the most cunning and wily, using his intelligence and wits to beat or at least stand up to Superman. Even if he is more physically intimidating and taller, against a Kryptonian he would stand no chance naturally. So he'll have to use other means to even out the fight.

Also, I think the fact that Batman won't be the straight man here (that will be Superman's role), that allows him to do things he might not normally get to do in his own movies, and he could therefore steal the show. He can say things that could be more antagonistic or inflammatory and won't be the one who has to seem like he has to keep a certain heroic image, because here it's Superman who is the boy scout character.

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Old 08-29-2013, 05:52 PM   #74
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I think Affleck's Batman will be the most cunning and wily, using his intelligence and wits to beat or at least stand up to Superman. Even if he is more physically intimidating and taller, against a Kryptonian he would stand no chance naturally. So he'll have to use other means to even out the fight.

Also, I think the fact that Batman won't be the straight man here (that will be Superman's role), that allows him to do things he might not normally get to do in his own movies, and he could therefore steal the show. He can say things that could be more antagonistic or inflammatory and won't be the one who has to seem like he has to keep a certain heroic image, because here it's Superman who is the boy scout character.
BOOM!

I don't want the narrative to even be sympathetic to Batman. I want him to be the "Boo Radley" of the MOS sequel, only revealing his "soft side" to Supes when he figures he is trustworthy.

And I believe that Snyder can create a VERY scary Batman. He's familiar with the genre and character, and made Nite Owl seem authoritative in the moment in which he "swoops" into action. Imagine what he'll do with an in-shape, more sinister character.

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Old 08-29-2013, 06:10 PM   #75
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Default Re: How will Ben Affleck stack up against the other Batmen?

I think he may actually be the best one yet,I'm still a bit worried on how the character will be written&directed in the film But I think Ben Affleck will do just fine!

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