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Old 09-05-2013, 11:58 AM   #251
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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Originally Posted by Senator Pleasury View Post
It is ridiculous. A superhero being the star of his own movie, I mean, what are some fans thinking of?
It's also ridiculous to feel like Tony was not the star of the movie.

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Old 09-05-2013, 11:59 AM   #252
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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Originally Posted by Iron_Stark View Post
You talk about inaccuracy, yet wanted Mandarin to have MAGIC rings? Really?

Tell you what, find me an Iron Man comic that has Mandarin using rings that are powered by MAGIC and I will forever agree with your nonsensical posts from here on out.
I said many (including myself) DIDN'T care about rings (however they are powered) but were looking forward to Terrorist warlord Mandarin that was advertised.

The point of that post was that movie fanboys think complaints about Mandarin are only based on comic accuracy when they aren't, you just proved my point by failing to see that

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Old 09-05-2013, 12:04 PM   #253
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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You talk about inaccuracy, yet wanted Mandarin to have MAGIC rings? Really?

Tell you what, find me an Iron Man comic that has Mandarin using rings that are powered by MAGIC and I will forever agree with your nonsensical posts from here on out.
The magic rings could have had an alien origin. It would have linked into Tony's panic attacks about "New York" and "those Aliens and Gods". This is not Nolan's Batman. While IM is kinda grounded the MCU has Gods and Aliens and will soon include a talking raccoon...

So no, I do not think the alien rings would not be unreasonable.

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Old 09-05-2013, 01:15 PM   #254
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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The Mandarin heads the Ten Rings and learns about Killian's Extremis project through spies in the US. The Mandarin's Ten Rings gets Killian's attention and enter into his employ. Killian uses Ten Rings as terrorist boogeymen to advance his corporation. Through their partnership, Mandarin is able to infiltrate Killian's company and obtain the Extremis. Afterward, Mandarin double-crosses Killian and kills him. Then we'd learn that Mandarin holds disgust toward self-styled heroes, and goes to war against Tony Stark. The Mandarin would target Tony because he sees Stark as the figurehead of the Avengers. I'd throw in Fin Fang Foom, too. The Mandarin's backup. Something kept in reserve.
Sounds like some cool ideas. I like a menacing Mandarin - plus you get points for Fin Fang Foom . But what is Iron Man doing during the first part of the movie when this whole thing is going down between Killian and the Mandarin? You have to keep it hero centric. I guess he could be fighting little battles against the terrorists here and there and eventually would confront the Mandarin but he would just be reacting to things around him. I like how in IM 3 he actually did some detective work and uncovered the whole plot. You saw a different side to Tony Stark. Maybe he could still be investigating things along the way in this alternate story but what is the big reveal? That the Mandarin is the threat not Killian? But we already knew about the 10 rings from Iron Man 1. Not saying this couldn't work but there's a lot that goes into a story.

In the end the film we got is what it is. I'm sure it could've been better. I'm sure it could've been worse. There are definitely plot holes but I thought it was a good film. I don't want Shane Black or Pearce writing any more Marvel movies though. (Supposedly there was going to be a Killian/Pepper sex tape??? WTF?)

It's easy to throw out ideas but to churn out a cohesive entertaining story is hard. There are challenges such as pacing and keeping things fresh so it's not a paint-by-numbers CBM. I understand the need for a climax but I actually get a little tired of the big boss battle at the end formula. I'm hoping that as the MCU grows the stories will mature and we'll see more variety. Since CBMs are all they do, unlike other film studios, they - more than anyone - need to find a way to keep it new and fresh.

I thought that Iron Man 3 did a good job of serving up the unexpected. I understand that the movies are different than the comics but I hope the Mandarin was a one off scenario and they will not start crapping all over decades of comic book mythos. I don't believe they will. I think the Mandarin was a tricky problem and they delivered a successful spin that audiences responded to.

But I am very anxious to see what they do with Thor. I'm a big fan of the MCU, but if Malekith is just a puppet of Loki or some nonsense like that, I won't be a happy camper.

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Old 09-05-2013, 01:19 PM   #255
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The magic rings could have had an alien origin. It would have linked into Tony's panic attacks about "New York" and "those Aliens and Gods". This is not Nolan's Batman. While IM is kinda grounded the MCU has Gods and Aliens and will soon include a talking raccoon...

So no, I do not think the alien rings would not be unreasonable.
I agree with you. It could've worked. Perhaps once phase 2 is complete and we see how all these stories tie together then things will make more sense as to why they made certain choices.

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Old 09-05-2013, 01:30 PM   #256
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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Originally Posted by Senator Pleasury View Post
It is ridiculous. A superhero being the star of his own movie, I mean, what are some fans thinking of?
Stark was very much the star of the whole film.

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Old 09-05-2013, 01:46 PM   #257
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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It's also ridiculous to feel like Tony was not the star of the movie.
Oh, he was. Only that Iron Man wasn't and they had the love interest stealing his thunder right at the climax when superheroes excel the most.

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Old 09-05-2013, 02:23 PM   #258
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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Originally Posted by droidwarrior View Post
I said many (including myself) DIDN'T care about rings (however they are powered) but were looking forward to Terrorist warlord Mandarin that was advertised.

The point of that post was that movie fanboys think complaints about Mandarin are only based on comic accuracy when they aren't, you just proved my point by failing to see that
My point of the post is that you want accuracy in the movie, yet want magic rings and Osama bin Mandarin.


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The magic rings could have had an alien origin. It would have linked into Tony's panic attacks about "New York" and "those Aliens and Gods". This is not Nolan's Batman. While IM is kinda grounded the MCU has Gods and Aliens and will soon include a talking raccoon...

So no, I do not think the alien rings would not be unreasonable.
Good grief where do I start?

Mandarins rings in the comics have NEVER been powered by magic.

Them being powered by alien tech would've worked fine and been comic accurate. But they chose to go another route. Did it upset me? Yeah at first, but now I've moved on, I'm not going to dwell on it and be some whiny fanboy that cries and moans about some comic character nobody gave a flip about a year ago.

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Old 09-05-2013, 02:27 PM   #259
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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My point of the post is that you want accuracy in the movie, yet want magic rings and Osama bin Mandarin.
i never said anything like that

You must have me confused me with some other poster.

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Old 09-05-2013, 02:28 PM   #260
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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Oh, he was. Only that Iron Man wasn't and they had the love interest stealing his thunder right at the climax when superheroes excel the most.
Stealing his thunder like she did in IM1? Where *she* was the one who killed Obie Stane? Or like she did in IM2, where *she* was the one who had Justin Hammer arrested? Pepper "steals Tony's thunder" in every IM movie so far....IM3 isn't the first.

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Old 09-05-2013, 03:06 PM   #261
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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My point of the post is that you want accuracy in the movie, yet want magic rings and Osama bin Mandarin.




Good grief where do I start?

Mandarins rings in the comics have NEVER been powered by magic.

Them being powered by alien tech would've worked fine and been comic accurate. But they chose to go another route. Did it upset me? Yeah at first, but now I've moved on, I'm not going to dwell on it and be some whiny fanboy that cries and moans about some comic character nobody gave a flip about a year ago.
There we go. A great performance from a great actor (Kingsley is an academy winner) and a great script they could have made him an iconic villain.

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Old 09-05-2013, 03:06 PM   #262
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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Personally I was hoping to see Pepper get her Rescue armor in IM3.
That would've been great.

I'd have preferred she kept the Extremis and became a hero too.

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Old 09-05-2013, 03:32 PM   #263
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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Stealing his thunder like she did in IM1? Where *she* was the one who killed Obie Stane? Or like she did in IM2, where *she* was the one who had Justin Hammer arrested? Pepper "steals Tony's thunder" in every IM movie so far....IM3 isn't the first.
Helping Iron Man - and the fact that we're talking about Iron Man on the climax is already better and great - and stealing the show are different things and you know it. When you have Iron Man in an Iron Man movie, you can allow certain thi8ngs. Like Gordon helping Batman.

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Old 09-05-2013, 04:10 PM   #264
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Personally, my biggest problem with IM3's approach to the Mandarin is the fact that the comics provided a template for an updated take on the character courtesy of the Knaufs in their "Haunted" storyline. That take on the character would've fit perfectly with the Extremis story that Black was trying to tell and lefted the culturally insensitive aspects of the character's previous incarnations on the wayside.

I just seems odd to me for them not to have done that in favor of trying to make some sort of political commentary.

If they were still worried about the possibly coming across as insensitive by using a Chinese villain, they could've addressed that by a heroic Chinese character in the supporting cast. Like giving the Dr. Wu character a bigger role. Or maybe instead of the whole Harley angle, a beaten Tony could've seeked aid from a certain FBI agent named Jimmy Woo who is also investigating the Mandarin.

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Old 09-05-2013, 04:43 PM   #265
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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Oh, he was. Only that Iron Man wasn't and they had the love interest stealing his thunder right at the climax when superheroes excel the most.
Tony Stark is Iron Man.

Tony's thunder didn't get stolen. He spent the last of his thunder critically destabilizing Killian and finished by saying that Pepper was perfect. Pepper coming back and proving that does not steal his thunder, it emphasizes his point.

Then he willingly gave up his thunder for her. Nothing stolen.

And one more for good measure.

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Old 09-05-2013, 04:50 PM   #266
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His intelligence allows him to accomplish things no one else can do. That's what makes him super. It gives him his armor. It prevents you from taking his armor away from him. People kept trying, no one ever succeeded (Edit: Except Rhodey). You'd have to take away his intelligence to take away his armor in the first place, and even if you get him distracted enough to lose his armor, you'd have to take away his intelligence to keep him making super powers at Wal Mart...

Yes, Tony Stark stripped to his undies with his hands tied behind his back in an empty room is not super, we get that. Most superheroes aren't... but if you put Tony Stark anywhere that technology exists, it's just a matter of time before he becomes super again, and even when he's just got a couple hours and a hundred bucks, he can still take out a squad of trained men with guns men. That's super. Now just imagine what Tony Stark can do with ten hours and Stark Enterprises. Sheesh.

How many people, how many supervillains does he have to beat without his armor before people understand that his intelligence, by far, is his most powerful ability, and it doesn't go anywhere when he loses his armor.
This deserves to be repeated. Its also why complaints about Tony not being special if other people have powered armor are nonsense. Unless Iron Man-level powered armor is off-the-shelf tech, he will remain individually awesome. The fact that he could, theoretically, give other people powered armor doesn't make him less special, it makes him more: he is, functionally speaking, a super power origin for *other people*, whenever he wants.

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Old 09-05-2013, 04:51 PM   #267
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You talk about inaccuracy, yet wanted Mandarin to have MAGIC rings? Really?

Tell you what, find me an Iron Man comic that has Mandarin using rings that are powered by MAGIC and I will forever agree with your nonsensical posts from here on out.
Actually, he's mostly right. Despite coming off of an alien space ship, the ten rings traditionally *are* magical. Its kind of random and inexplicable, but its nonetheless true. I vaguely recall that Marvel may have retconned that away, but if so, its recent ( within the last couple years ).

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Old 09-05-2013, 04:53 PM   #268
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

this thread makes me sad. so much hate...

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Old 09-05-2013, 05:01 PM   #269
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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this thread makes me sad. so much hate...
Eh, that's always going to happen, apparently. The people who hate the Mandarin Twist are always going to hate the Mandarin Twist, and we can rationalize and disprove them point by point, but they're *still* always going to hate the Mandarin Twist. Some people want so badly to call the fifth highest grossing movie of all time a "failure." Whatevs.

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Old 09-05-2013, 05:08 PM   #270
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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Eh, that's always going to happen, apparently. The people who hate the Mandarin Twist are always going to hate the Mandarin Twist, and we can rationalize and disprove them point by point, but they're *still* always going to hate the Mandarin Twist. Some people want so badly to call the fifth highest grossing movie of all time a "failure." Whatevs.
I can see that Killain had aspects of a certain portrayal of the character but I think that Kingsley's version was more meanacing and interesting IMO. I wondered what this guy hated about the western world. I thought the ten rings would have been a great way to tie it into the events of the Avengers.

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Old 09-05-2013, 05:11 PM   #271
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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Eh, that's always going to happen, apparently. The people who hate the Mandarin Twist are always going to hate the Mandarin Twist, and we can rationalize and disprove them point by point, but they're *still* always going to hate the Mandarin Twist. Some people want so badly to call the fifth highest grossing movie of all time a "failure." Whatevs.
I've realized that, they even change tactics during discussion. If they argue that 'The Mandarin was a joke' and one points out, that Trevor wasn't the Mandarin but Kilian was, they change to 'Mandarin wasn't comic accurate'. If you point out that he was indeed very similar to ----cb -mandarin it quickly becomes 'The trailers lied'...
Some people just want to see the world burn, I guess

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Old 09-05-2013, 05:13 PM   #272
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I've realized that, they even change tactics during discussion. If they argue that 'The Mandarin was a joke' and one points out, that Trevor wasn't the Mandarin but Kilian was, they change to 'Mandarin wasn't comic accurate'. If you point out that he was indeed very similar to ----cb -mandarin it quickly becomes 'The trailers lied'...
Some people just want to see the world burn, I guess
Nope, just listing stuff they didn't like.
The trailers lying is not legitimate as that is something outside of the film.

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Old 09-05-2013, 05:35 PM   #273
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I don't think its really fair to attack the posters who dislike IM3's take on the Mandarin. Granted, some may not go about expressing their views on the matter the right way, but everyone is guilty of that sometimes. Those who liked Black's interpretation of the character should be able to sympathize with those that didn't since surely there are things that they didn't like or agree with in past CBM's, or for that matter, rumored details in upcoming films.

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Old 09-05-2013, 06:39 PM   #274
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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Originally Posted by Senator Pleasury View Post
Helping Iron Man - and the fact that we're talking about Iron Man on the climax is already better and great - and stealing the show are different things and you know it. When you have Iron Man in an Iron Man movie, you can allow certain thi8ngs. Like Gordon helping Batman.
Agreed.It was very out of place.And given that Tony had already beat Killian,in probably the best villain defeat in an IM movie-unnecessary.

*cue people saying "But Killian wasn't dead"

So?Maybe he's still not dead now.Should Happy have shown up to "Kill" Killian once more for good measure?They added an extra kill to give Pepper the glory so the PC crowd wouldn't scream "D in D! D in D!"

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Old 09-05-2013, 07:11 PM   #275
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

People can attempt to rationalize and disprove peoples reaction to the movie twist, but no matter the outcome it won't change how things happened.

The twist became the hot button issue with the movie, across the Internets, nothing short of time travel will change that, it's recorded history. Just like FF2 is known for having Galactus as a cloud, IM3 will be known for The Mandarin being an Croyden Actor, that's just the way it is..

The reason it's taken over this thread is...

1. Because it's recent and controversial.
2. it's a discussion about missteps on adapting characters, which some people believe it falls under.

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