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Old 09-11-2013, 05:11 PM   #376
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

I thought Venom was done poorly

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Old 09-11-2013, 05:22 PM   #377
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Where is all this information on the Mandarin buildup coming from? Because everything I've ever heard from Favreau the past few years is that he didn't want to do the Mandarin at all, because he thought the character delved too far into the mystical for the tone of the films he was making and that he only included the Ten Rings references as a nod to the fans.

Can we get some sources on this, because I'd love to read them if Favreau has said otherwise more recently.
That's not what Favreau said. He said that the Mandarin of the comics would be difficult to do because of the it would be hard to fit it in the tone of the Iron Man films (and also due to the stereotypical factor). However, he never said he didn't plan on doing him. Quite the opposite. He also said that his Mandarin would be different from comic book Mandarin, which is why we've been saying for months that we were disappointed because we didn't get the Mandarin promised in the trailers and in the previous films, not because we didn't get comic book Mandarin.


Evidence of Favreau saying he wants the Mandarin (after filming Iron Man 2):
http://splashpage.mtv.com/2010/05/07...an-3-mandarin/
http://collider.com/iron-man-3-jon-favreau-mandarin/
http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/163...rd-movie.jhtml

Evidence of Favreau saying he has plans for the Mandarin (back when Iron Man 1 came out in '08):
http://splashpage.mtv.com/2008/09/12...bottle-likely/

Evidence of Favreau originally planning to have the Mandarin in IM1:
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...ticle&id=16292
(Iron Monger was set to appear later with the Mandarin in IM1 instead, but the final draft switched them).

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Old 09-11-2013, 05:29 PM   #378
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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So, a bunch of failures to launch, ideas that never went past the concept stage, and brainstorms that got crumpled up and tossed into File 13 constitute "foreshadowing and setups" now? Okay. None of that BTS stuff ever made it to the actual movies, so no one in the audience can reasonably say that it was being "promised" to them.

By your reasoning, I can take any number of scrapped IM movie ideas and say they were "promised" to us and were "foreshadowed," including failed plans to use Crimson Dynamo and Ghost.
They were not scraped ideas at all, the only one which can be considered a failure is the Leader, but even he was put on hold and can appear anytime in any show or movie. The Infnity Gauntlet is reserved for Thanos, no need to do that before, Justin Hammer's final threat may seem like an idea that was scraped, but with him there is also the discussion that he may be featured in Agents of SHIELD.

And the Human-Torch was just an easter egg for fans, i never got the impression it was going to lead somewhere at all, the same with the Luke Cage easter egg, since Iron Man Marvel has been putting those in their movies for fans to spot and the universe to seem closer to the comics. Favreu himself had said he thought it was important to put things for the fans in the movie, which is how the Nick Fury post-Credits scene and the plane with the code name whiplash came from.

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Old 09-11-2013, 05:42 PM   #379
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

God this is a depressing thread..

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Old 09-11-2013, 05:50 PM   #380
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

Time to lock her up?

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Old 09-11-2013, 05:53 PM   #381
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

Thanks Shikamaru.

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Old 09-11-2013, 05:53 PM   #382
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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Time to lock her up?
huh? I need context

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Old 09-11-2013, 07:35 PM   #383
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God this is a depressing thread..
Slaps in the face make everyone sad.

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Thanks Shikamaru.
You're welcome.

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Old 09-11-2013, 07:55 PM   #384
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here is something to cheer you all up



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Old 09-11-2013, 10:11 PM   #385
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Here's the thing, they could have actually played thefilm Mandarin straight. The backstory that they mentioned prior to the films release (a Col. Kurtz figure who went crazy and became obsessed with the Art of War) would have worked great and made for a fascinating and terrifying villain. Also, emo Peter dancing, what were you smoking that day Raimi?

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Old 09-12-2013, 04:20 PM   #386
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

A fun fact, but back in the early drafts of IM1, the Mandarin and the Crimson Dynamo were going to be the same character. Favreau was planning on presenting the Mandarin as being basically being the Chinese equivalent of Tony Stark. But instead of the rings he's would've had the CD armor.

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Old 09-12-2013, 05:25 PM   #387
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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A fun fact, but back in the early drafts of IM1, the Mandarin and the Crimson Dynamo were going to be the same character. Favreau was planning on presenting the Mandarin as being basically being the Chinese equivalent of Tony Stark. But instead of the rings he's would've had the CD armor.
That actually sounds like a good idea.

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Old 09-13-2013, 09:58 AM   #388
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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Here's the thing, they could have actually played thefilm Mandarin straight. The backstory that they mentioned prior to the films release (a Col. Kurtz figure who went crazy and became obsessed with the Art of War) would have worked great and made for a fascinating and terrifying villain. Also, emo Peter dancing, what were you smoking that day Raimi?
They could have even tied it in to the first movie as a retaliation effect.
From the first group of guys he toasted in the middle east.Since he looked to be from there.(Even though he is supposed to be Chinese.)
Just like the plot in Taken 2.

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Old 09-13-2013, 11:22 AM   #389
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Nah, gave us some of the best Marvel movies and led to the Marvel CBM genre becoming what it is today
Yeah but I think his point was that they were interminable deals.
They didnt have to be interminable.Thats like signing them away.
Pretty much.

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Old 09-13-2013, 12:55 PM   #390
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

The Mandarin could have been the leader of the Ten Rings, with Raza as his lieutenant. He could have even been behind Vanko's rampage as well. That way, he'd have been messing with Tony's life from day one.

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Old 09-13-2013, 01:08 PM   #391
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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Wasp is a bit more debatable, but Hank Pym is without a doubt the most important Avengers member after the Big Three (Cap, Iron Man, Thor). He's been with the team since the very beginning, has been on the team throughout most of its comic run, has built most of their gadgets, is connected to Ultron, has a very interesting dynamic with the rest of the team due to his pacifist views (at least in the older comics), is connected to Ultron, is one of the most committed Avengers even though you would expect him not to be, etc.
That is debatable as well.

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Old 09-14-2013, 02:22 AM   #392
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Yeah, I'd put Carol, Scarlet Witch, Black Panther, and several others before Pym.

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Old 09-14-2013, 02:57 AM   #393
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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Yeah, I'd put Carol, Scarlet Witch, Black Panther, and several others before Pym.
I'd say Pym and Wasp are just as important considering their history with the Avengers. While I like BP, SW, and Carol more I can't deny the importance of Wasp and Ant-Man being founding Avengers.

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Old 09-14-2013, 11:14 AM   #394
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That is debatable as well.
I'd like to hear an argument as to why that isn't true. He's been with the Avengers since their inception and throughout most of their run in the comics. He's done for the team about as much as the Big Three have. He is a brilliant scientist and has one of the most brilliant minds in the Marvel universe that has helped the team as much as Stark's tech mind did and Cap's leadership skills did. He's there whenever Marvel creates hype for their Avengers books by bringing back "the main team" (main team =/= original team, since Cap is always included in the "main team". He is connected to Ultron, one of the team's greatest foes. If you ask your average comic book fan to name 5 important Avengers members off the top of their heads, Hank Pym is bound to be brought up a lot.


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Old 09-14-2013, 11:20 AM   #395
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

double post


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Old 09-14-2013, 11:23 AM   #396
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

Being a founding member means nothing to me. Angel was a founding member of the X-Men but that doesn't stop Wolverine, Storm, Kitty, etc. from being more important than he is.


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Old 09-14-2013, 11:38 AM   #397
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Yep. I'd say that Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, Vision, Carol Danvers in her various incarnations? All much more important than Pym. For that matter, I'd say Wasp is more important than Pym.

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Old 09-14-2013, 11:50 AM   #398
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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Being a founding member means nothing to me. Angel was a founding member of the X-Men but that doesn't stop Wolverine, Storm, Kitty, etc. from being more important than he is.
Pym being a founding member is just the tip of the iceberg as to why he's one of the most important Avengers.

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Yep. I'd say that Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, Vision, Carol Danvers in her various incarnations? All much more important than Pym. For that matter, I'd say Wasp is more important than Pym.
Pym is to the Avengers what Flash and GL are to the Justice League (same goes for Wasp) whereas everyone else you brought up it to the team what Aquaman and Martian Manhunter are to the Justice League. Still very important, but not as important IMO.

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Old 09-14-2013, 02:12 PM   #399
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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Being a founding member means nothing to me. Angel was a founding member of the X-Men but that doesn't stop Wolverine, Storm, Kitty, etc. from being more important than he is.
Difference being that Angel didn't stay with the group forever, and became an intermittent appearance at best. Hank Pym, in one costume or other, wasn't just a founder, he has ALWAYS been a member of the Avengers (although a substantial portion of that career was as a Westie; still, that's a full-fledged Avenger).

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Yep. I'd say that Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, Vision, Carol Danvers in her various incarnations? All much more important than Pym. For that matter, I'd say Wasp is more important than Pym.
Wanda, yes. *Major* Avenger. Quicksilver, less so (he spent less time with the team than Wanda did). Vision, major. Carol Danvers? Not so much. In this century, the writers and video games have tried to beef up her role to become essentially a Wonder Woman for the team, but before the 2000s, she wasn't a major player in the Avengers at all. In fact, she got booted early on for her boozing (the height of hypocrisy, coming from Tony Stark).

The closest thing to a "regular" core for the team would be Cap, Thor, Iron Man, Hawkeye, Giant-Man, Wasp, Vision, Scarlet Witch, and Wonder Man. That is your *classic* Avenger lineup, through 2005. Everybody else is pulling second-string or lower.

And that's not just *my* "imho."

http://forums.comicbookresources.com.../t-351786.html

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Old 09-14-2013, 05:45 PM   #400
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^ Funny that Hank Pym is listed every single time in there.

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