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Old 10-10-2013, 02:15 PM   #476
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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I actually thought it was just as creative as Rami, I enjoyed the grounded/neo-modern take Webb gave us (even over Rami's classic/campy take which I always liked).
Well, when it comes to cinema it's difficult to explain this kind of creativity, since it's mostly visual, Webb certainly gave some good and interesting imagery, i really liked some of the part in Oscorp, However i think Raimi's style is a better fit for this kind of film and makes the film more "classic", if that even makes sence

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What I most liked about TASM over the previous films was that here the relationships WORKED. I bought them pretty much all. In the Raimi movies I had to go further to suspend my disbelief that all these people would have anything to do with each other. And relationships are a huge part of Spider-man and his mythos.
Yeah, the relationship here was miles better, and Gwen Stacy was actually likeable and helpful in a way that makes sence. But relationships aren't everything, and Gwen finding funny that Peter Parker has a picture of her without speaking much with her also needs a lot of suspension of disbelief, not to mention the fact that he had zero reasons to be considered a high scool loser like the film tried to portray in the begining.

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True. Plus, the main characters had more than one dimension. Peter was not only a nerd, Uncle Ben was not only a kind-hearted guy, etc. Whic led to more believable relationships between them.
I didn't think Peter was one-dimensional in the other movies, he just had a different personality. Uncle Bem wasn't explored in such high details but he was still very believable and the character was charming.

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Plenty of male-led action films fail, yet the actors' gender is not blamed. Why should it be different for women? Especially since far more male-led action films are made than female-led action films?
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Old 10-10-2013, 04:12 PM   #477
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

I love both SM1 and TASM very much, while I felt TASM was better I enjoy both equally the same. Here's why both are great.

Spider-Man 1 gave us an iconic movie for an iconic hero and whatever you say about the Rami films, I will always say this was a good adaption. This captured the feel of the Stan Lee/Ditko era very well. A memorable score with memorable moments this was a great introduction to Spider-Man even if Rami had not full decided on his take being realistic or more fantastical. This film also had Sam Rami's heart.

TASM was a more grounded take on the character and a great reintroduction to Spidey. A great cast, great performances with a very unique soundtrack and showed how if he could exist, what he would be like in our world. This reminded me very much of how Spider-Man is portrayed in the modern comics (Ultimate and Season One). Webb gave us a more comic book accurate version and a universe that could expand onto many films.

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Old 10-10-2013, 08:12 PM   #478
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I just couldn't get behind Parker in TASM, other than being a bit of douchebag, the whole approach just felt wrong. He's a smoldering good looking bad boy who can easily get a girlfriend before he gets his powers, to a smoldering good looking bad boy with super powers. As well not really learning anything about power and responsibility.

The movie made Peter Parker extremely unlikable to me.

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Old 10-10-2013, 10:28 PM   #479
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

If he never learnt responsibility he wouldn't have purposefully gone after the Lizard.

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Old 10-10-2013, 11:09 PM   #480
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If he never learnt responsibility he wouldn't have purposefully gone after the Lizard.
But then he kind of negates anything he has learned by breaking his promise to a dying Captain Stacy.

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Old 10-10-2013, 11:26 PM   #481
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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If he never learnt responsibility he wouldn't have purposefully gone after the Lizard.
I think that speaks more to the inconsistency of the writing than it does the protagonist. He went after the Lizard because it was in the script and it's a genre film; it was otherwise out of character for him, and I base that upon his attitude and actions throughout the film's entirety. The only thing he didn't do selfishly was save that man's son from the burning car.

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Old 10-11-2013, 12:13 AM   #482
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I just couldn't get behind Parker in TASM, other than being a bit of douchebag, the whole approach just felt wrong. He's a smoldering good looking bad boy who can easily get a girlfriend before he gets his powers, to a smoldering good looking bad boy with super powers. As well not really learning anything about power and responsibility.

The movie made Peter Parker extremely unlikable to me.
Hw got the girl because he was heroic without his super-powers, which the previous Spider-man was unable to be. Maguire's Peter only got the girl out of pity and going behind his best friend's back to steal MJ from hm. That's being a douche.

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Old 10-11-2013, 12:58 AM   #483
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Parker being heroic before he gets his powers pretty much defeats the purpose of the character.

Yes, yes holding hands, and then never going forward with a relationship, that's stealing a girlfriend... if you are 9-year-old. You seriously need o reevaluate your criteria for what it is to be in a relationship, it's not like grade school. And Pete got MJ because she finally realized who he was and why he was always stand offish with her, not out of pity.

Oh and Maguire's Parker was able to be heroic without his powers, he ran into a burning building to save a child.


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Old 10-11-2013, 01:05 AM   #484
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He got the girl because he was heroic without his super-powers
Maybe I missed something, but that sounds like quite the reach to me. You're gonna have to elaborate on that one, as that's quite the steep claim.

From what I gathered, he got the girl because it was in the script. They went from batting their eyes at one another to locking lips on her roof. There was no progression and no connection. There wasn't a single moment between these two that could match the charm, chemistry, and tension Pete and MJ had during the front lawn dialogue or the hospital scene.

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which the previous Spider-man was unable to be.
That isn't true. Maguire's Parker was considerably more selfless than Garfield's, not to mention him...well...running into a burning building sans super powers. Damn near everything Garfield's Peter did was self serving.

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Maguire's Peter only got the girl out of pity and going behind his best friend's back to steal MJ from hm. That's being a douche.
Makes sense. He went behind his friend's back to offer her his friendship at the conclusion of the first film. I get it now.

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Old 10-11-2013, 01:14 AM   #485
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Makes sense. He went behind his friend's back to offer her his friendship at the conclusion of the first film. I get it now.
And took the end of the second movie for them to become a couple.

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Old 10-11-2013, 01:21 AM   #486
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And took the end of the second movie for them to become a couple.
...which she initiated.

Some people only see what they want to, I suppose.

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Old 10-11-2013, 01:25 AM   #487
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...which she initiated.

Some people only see what they want to, I suppose.
Or have a grade school understanding of relationships.

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Old 10-11-2013, 01:30 AM   #488
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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From what I gathered, he got the girl because it was in the script. They went from batting their eyes at one another to locking lips on her roof. There was no progression and no connection. There wasn't a single moment between these two that could match the charm, chemistry, and tension Pete and MJ had during the front lawn dialogue or the hospital scene.
When she was tending his wounds

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Old 10-11-2013, 01:41 AM   #489
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When she was tending his wounds
I disagree.

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Old 10-11-2013, 03:03 AM   #490
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Wolverine being 6'3 totally ruined the entire X-Men franchise. What a slap.
Okay, I hate to necro and old thread, but this is a bad thing because?

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Old 10-11-2013, 03:14 AM   #491
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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Maybe I missed something, but that sounds like quite the reach to me. You're gonna have to elaborate on that one, as that's quite the steep claim.

From what I gathered, he got the girl because it was in the script. They went from batting their eyes at one another to locking lips on her roof. There was no progression and no connection. There wasn't a single moment between these two that could match the charm, chemistry, and tension Pete and MJ had during the front lawn dialogue or the hospital scene.
You mean that hospital scene where he completely describes a totally different character than the utterly self-centered b**** standing before him? I'll take the genuine chemistry that Garfield and Stone had over the utter lack of chemistry that MacGuire and Dunst had, thank you very much.

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Old 10-11-2013, 03:54 AM   #492
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You mean that hospital scene where he completely describes a totally different character than the utterly self-centered b**** standing before him? I'll take the genuine chemistry that Garfield and Stone had over the utter lack of chemistry that MacGuire and Dunst had, thank you very much.
Point well taken, but I think that point skirts what I was saying. I don't think that Peter and Gwen had a shred of chemistry between them, they just were. I get that everyone was annoyed by MJ, and agree for the most part, but there's no denying that their relationship had every bit of progression, tension, and conflict that the new one lacked.

Most of the criticism I've seen lately amounts to thusly - "I hated Kirsten Dunst, therefore I hated their romance"

Again, I get it, but I can't abide that. She wasn't the sassy bombshell swelling with personality that I wanted either, but the relationship was one of the better written parts of the...first two films, regardless of how you feel about the actors/characters. Gwen and Peter literally went from staring at each in hallways to cuddling in her room and smooching on the roof. I can't even begin to describe how ho-hum and uninteresting that is, let alone unbelievable. A developing romance should be treated like a subplot, in that there's a clear structure to the entire affair. There was no development, no challenge for either of them, so it felt manufactured...as did the rest of the film. I can't call it chemistry if there's nothing there. Googly eyes only go so far; there needs to be some semblance of substance there. Add to that that she hardly said a damn word to the kid; she was little more than his sounding board. This is why I think that Tony and Pepper are the benchmark for the genre up to now, as that duo has had it all.

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Old 10-11-2013, 10:46 AM   #493
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Well I agree about the Tony/Pepper part. But then again, they're adults and these are teenagers. They're supposed to be driven by hormones primarily. Being driven by hormones doesn't require a great level of sophistication. In fact sophistication would kinda ring false for them.

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Old 10-11-2013, 10:58 AM   #494
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Bloating IM2 with Avengers set up; IM2 in general. Great premise, terrible execution.

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Old 10-11-2013, 11:28 AM   #495
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Parker being heroic before he gets his powers pretty much defeats the purpose of the character.
No, it shows that Uncle Ben had raised him well.

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Yes, yes holding hands, and then never going forward with a relationship, that's stealing a girlfriend...
Yes. It was AFTER he stole MJ that he understood that being Spider-man would be endangering her. SO he stole his girl to his best friend and then he was forced to re-evaluate the situation, as MJ was kidnapped and almost killed by Green Goblin. It's all properly shown in the movie.

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if you are 9-year-old. You seriously need o reevaluate your criteria for what it is to be in a relationship, it's not like grade school.
Sadly, your assumptions about me don't constitute an argument.

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And Pete got MJ because she finally realized who he was and why he was always stand offish with her, not out of pity.
And when did this happen? All Peter and MJ did during the movie was running into each other? When did she "realize" all that?

All that did happen was Peter declaring his love and MJ falling for it. While still with Harry, of course.

Another thing that did happen was Peter being bullied on the school bus and at school and MJ having to defend him (asking the bus driver to stop and asking Harry to defend Peter from Flash). That's pity.

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Oh and Maguire's Parker was able to be heroic without his powers, he ran into a burning building to save a child.
That was AFTER being Spider-man. Not the same. he had the experience, the muscled body and he knew his power loss could be only psychological.


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Maybe I missed something, but that sounds like quite the reach to me. You're gonna have to elaborate on that one, as that's quite the steep claim.
All you have to do is watching the movie properly. First time Peter gets Gwen's attention is because he defended that poor guy from Flash. Right afterwards she tells him that it was brave.

It is not quite a reach if it's shown on screen, clearly, see?

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From what I gathered, he got the girl because it was in the script.
That would be Raimi's Spider-m,an, where Peter does absolutely nothing extraordinary to MJ - other than running into her a couple of times - and yet she falls for him.

Maybe it was Peter being audacious enough to go behind his best friend's back and try to steal his girlfriend that excited MJ about him? That could be quite a reach but it's the only extraordinary thing Peter did for her (that she knows, because she doesn't know he's Spider-man).

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They went from batting their eyes at one another to locking lips on her roof. There was no progression and no connection. There wasn't a single moment between these two that could match the charm, chemistry, and tension Pete and MJ had during the front lawn dialogue or the hospital scene.
There was that moment where he was heroic and she verbally said so, then she saw him at Connor's lab, which made her think he was interested and then Uncle Ben did the rest.

But it all started with him being heroic. Much more than Maguire did in front of MJ's eyes to get her attention.

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That isn't true. Maguire's Parker was considerably more selfless than Garfield's, not to mention him...well...running into a burning building sans super powers. Damn near everything Garfield's Peter did was self serving.
Where was he more selfless/heroic in front of MJ? All he did was being bullied by every single student and even the school bus driver. That's all MJ gets from Maguire's Peter.

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Makes sense. He went behind his friend's back to offer her his friendship at the conclusion of the first film. I get it now.
Oh, he was offering much much more. And MJ got that, that's why she went to kiss him at the end of the movie. Sadly by then, Peter had noticed that being Spider-man would mean that MJ would be in constant danger and was forced to go back to the friendship mode.


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And took the end of the second movie for them to become a couple.
Yes, since Peter understood the danger he was putting MJ into.

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Old 10-11-2013, 03:08 PM   #496
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No, it shows that Uncle Ben had raised him well.
No, the story of Peter Parker is about someone weak and helpless learning to become a hero, aspiring to be something better. Him standing up to a bully robs the character growth, the need to be a better person/hero to match what he has now gained.

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Old 10-11-2013, 05:38 PM   #497
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Gwen and Peter's chemistry was greatly superior to Tobey and Kirsten.

I also much prefered the idea of a smart girl who will remain faithful to her boyfriend instead of some actress who tries to get with 75% of the male cast.

For the love of Christ, she could not keep her panties on for half a freakin movie.

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Old 10-11-2013, 05:42 PM   #498
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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No, the story of Peter Parker is about someone weak and helpless learning to become a hero, aspiring to be something better. Him standing up to a bully robs the character growth, the need to be a better person/hero to match what he has now gained.
No it doesn't. Read Season One, Peter stands up to flash. Standing up to Flash showed two things:
1) He's not a dick, saving the son of the crane operator was NOT the only nice thing he did.
2) He had the will to do these things, just not the power. The heart of Peter is that he is powerless before getting bitten.

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Im done. Im leaving this website. I promise i will not be spiderman or attempt to be. I have a ral careerr to fulfill. Please don NOT tell anyone about this. I would appreciate if you all kept this a secret.
I'm not a fanboy, I'm just an entusiastic Spider-Man fan...
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Old 10-11-2013, 05:53 PM   #499
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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No, the story of Peter Parker is about someone weak and helpless learning to become a hero, aspiring to be something better. Him standing up to a bully robs the character growth, the need to be a better person/hero to match what he has now gained.
That's not Peter Parker. That is George McFly. Although Peter wasn't exactly the toughest guy around, he was by no means pushed around by everyone and their grandma.

People seriously need to accept the fact that Peter isn't George McFly. Even in the sixties, he still wasn't a full-on George McFly.

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Old 10-11-2013, 06:07 PM   #500
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Well, what Green Goblin and Shikamaru said.

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