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Old 09-01-2013, 02:35 PM   #126
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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I would have to read the story again to go any further into it, which I certainly wouldn't mind doing as it is an awesome story,
I'm so sad the Knauf's never got to do the Madame Masque arc they were planning before being shooed off to make way for Fraction's IM.

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Old 09-01-2013, 02:59 PM   #127
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I didn't know they had unused material...another slap in the face! Especially since the book ended on such a low note with that nearly pointless War Machine "Secret Invasion" tie-in.


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Old 09-01-2013, 03:49 PM   #128
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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He left to make SR so X3 had to be done by someone else. I think that's the complaint.
No, it didn't. Fox could have said, 'let's wait and do this film correctly.'

Then they had another talented director in Matthew Vaughn and chased him away because he couldn't make their ridiculous schedule. He later came back for First Class. The majority of the problems with X3 came from Fox rushing the film to beat Superman Returns to theaters.

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Old 09-01-2013, 03:59 PM   #129
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No, it didn't. Fox could have said, 'let's wait and do this film correctly.'

Then they had another talented director in Matthew Vaughn and chased him away because he couldn't make their ridiculous schedule. He later came back for First Class. The majority of the problems with X3 came from Fox rushing the film to beat Superman Returns to theaters.
Yeah Fox dropped the ball hard there. The X-Men franchise could be a totally different beast if Fox wasn't dumb and waited for Singer. Who knows what films could have followed a X-Men 3 that was amazing.

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Old 09-01-2013, 04:03 PM   #130
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

Did the fact that Fox had to make a film within so many years have something to do with the apparent rush they were in to produce X-3?

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Old 09-01-2013, 04:17 PM   #131
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Did the fact that Fox had to make a film within so many years have something to do with the apparent rush they were in to produce X-3?
Doubt it. X2 was only three years earlier and we are talking maybe another year extension on the timeline.

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Old 09-01-2013, 04:18 PM   #132
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

It sounded like a big, personal, pissing contest at the time to me.

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Old 09-01-2013, 04:20 PM   #133
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It sounded like a big, personal, pissing contest at the time to me.
One sided though. I have never heard of any hard feelings on Singer's part.

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Old 09-01-2013, 04:33 PM   #134
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One sided though. I have never heard of any hard feelings on Singer's part.
He's back for DOFP so they must have made up.

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Old 09-01-2013, 05:12 PM   #135
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One sided though. I have never heard of any hard feelings on Singer's part.
True that, Singer asking Fox to wait for him and Fox peeing in his eye.

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He's back for DOFP so they must have made up.
Yeah and he produced (and was originally set to direct) First Class as well. So they must have made their amends.

I guess realistically there was no way Fox was going to delay their big payday. But if they waited, to make a better movie, it could've been a bigger payday for them. So whoever was in charge at the time was pretty dumb.


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Old 09-03-2013, 08:11 AM   #136
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Ghost Rider 2.

I didn't feel I was ever slapped in the face for the others. And I'm glad what they did to the Mandarin.
May I ask why you say this?


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James marsden could've been a really good cyclops if he had better material to work with.
I felt he embodied the character when I first saw him on Screen opposite Wolverine I bought it.Really I did.I felt like Deja Vu.Marsden could have done so much more given the oppurtunity.You also felt that connection of first son between him and Prof.X

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I guess my main problem with the X-Men film series is that nobody ever calls out Wolverine on his ****. As the badboy character of the series, that is kind of necessary. Iron Man has Captain America (and Rhodey and Pepper in the solo films), Han Solo has Luke & Leia, James Bond has M and Felix, Kirk has Spock, etc. But Wolverine is ALWAYS presented as being right. At least until his latest film.

That's not an acting issue, that's a script issue.
Your right.Never really saw it that way but true.I guess in my own mind I knew it because I always knew it was Wolverine overkill.

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No. i saw the scene where Killain said that, i also saw a scene in TBBT where Sheldon Copper said he was Batman.

I queued to see the Mandarin they advertised

This guy...





Type "Iron Man 3 Mandarin Poster" into Google and see what comes up.

Compare that to a "Batman Begins Ra's al Ghul Poster" search
That was a disservice to both character and actor.How can youy shove Ben Kingsley off to the side as an actor to play this enemy what a missed oppurtunity.Ben Kingsley?????Really.
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Did the fact that Fox had to make a film within so many years have something to do with the apparent rush they were in to produce X-3?
Money.Cashing in while things were still hot from X2.

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Old 09-03-2013, 08:40 AM   #137
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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Show me a movie where Osama, Hussein and Ghadafi are drunken comedy actors and I'll show you one crappy movie.
Try: the evening news. As manufactured by the smoke and mirrors of corporate journalism that's in bed with the military-industrial complex. That's pretty much the political statement that Black is delivering here....you can choose to agree with the statement or disagree with it all you like, but the filmmaker can't deliver that "message" through Mandarin in any other format. Go ahead --- you try it.


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Even if that were so, the movie's pre-twist Mandarin was not. Until they felt comedy justifies just about anything.
Comedy makes for greater shock value in that scene than drama would have. If Kingsley had revealed Trevor Slattery through some dramatic dark 'n' gritty scene, or a heavy-handed tearjerker moment, it wouldn't have had the same "OMG!" impact.

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Old 09-03-2013, 10:35 AM   #138
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

There some question as far as what was meant by slap in the face.With the word Marvel.
I dont mean Marvel films I mean Marvel characters and or Universe.
How has Marvel as we know it suffered at the hands of filmakers.So it can be Marvel Studios as well as Fox or Sony or whatever.Also it can be more then the films I mentioned.Thise were just some examples of some personal feelings and things I heard of here.
Maybe this can just be our ventiong thread.

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Old 09-03-2013, 10:42 AM   #139
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Colossus.Storm.Blackwidow Emil Blonsky where's the accent???
Which to me is very important because it shows Marvel as being global.
Mutants especially should be from all around the world.
I know you don't need an accent for that but it helps sell it.It made Nightcrawler in X2 flesh out for me.Heros too.
Black Widow would have been even hotter with an accent.Adds variation too.

Speaking of adding variations some fans had issues with changing race on certain characters.
KIngpin from DD
Alicia from FF
Sue Storm from FF
Nick Fury from AVNGRS.
While some people feel strongly on this they vented and they were veiwed as Racist is this fair???
Is it the same if Falcon were made white?Or Storm or Luke Cage?
Is it color/race or ethnicity?Because Jessica Alba was still white but Hispanic white????
Alot of people don't know but Roy Rogers was really part native American indian(Choctaw) but it seems no one cared he played a Cowboy?
Funny how the greatest Cowboy to ever live was Choctaw indian.Why because he looked the part???Or because people didn't know?
So what's it really about?

Not sure what do you guys think Slap or Not on these issues.

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Old 09-03-2013, 11:31 AM   #140
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

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Is it color/race or ethnicity?Because Jessica Alba was still white but Hispanic white????
Yeah, we all know Alba is hispanic (or at least half), but it seems like they tried their hardest to make her "fully white" by giving her blonde hair and blue eyes; they didn't even do that with Chris Evans when he was Johnny Storm. They could have just cast an actress who was actually blonde but, like I said before, Alba was the hottest woman on the planet at that time.

And it looked even worse in the sequel.

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Old 09-03-2013, 11:42 AM   #141
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Yeah, we all know Alba is hispanic (or at least half), but it seems like they tried their hardest to make her "fully white" by giving her blonde hair and blue eyes; they didn't even do that with Chris Evans when he was Johnny Storm. They could have just cast an actress who was actually blonde but, like I said before, Alba was the hottest woman on the planet at that time.

And it looked even worse in the sequel.
So do you feel that was the issue even though she was white was that they tried to make her "fully white if such a thing"no offense because there are many Hispanics that fit the bill pigmentation as well as blue eyes.So your statement is not really looking the part?If I am understanding you correct.


Second do you think if she looked more "White"but still had been hispanic no one would have minded as much?


Third question is she a Hispanic that looks White or a White Hispanic?

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Old 09-03-2013, 12:31 PM   #142
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Colossus.Storm.Blackwidow Emil Blonsky where's the accent???
Which to me is very important because it shows Marvel as being global.
Mutants especially should be from all around the world.
I know you don't need an accent for that but it helps sell it.It made Nightcrawler in X2 flesh out for me.Heros too.
Black Widow would have been even hotter with an accent.Adds variation too.

Speaking of adding variations some fans had issues with changing race on certain characters.
KIngpin from DD
Alicia from FF
Sue Storm from FF
Nick Fury from AVNGRS.
While some people feel strongly on this they vented and they were veiwed as Racist is this fair???
Is it the same if Falcon were made white?Or Storm or Luke Cage?
Is it color/race or ethnicity?Because Jessica Alba was still white but Hispanic white????
Alot of people don't know but Roy Rogers was really part native American indian(Choctaw) but it seems no one cared he played a Cowboy?
Funny how the greatest Cowboy to ever live was Choctaw indian.Why because he looked the part???Or because people didn't know?
So what's it really about?

Not sure what do you guys think Slap or Not on these issues.
I agree with you that Colossus and Storm should have had accents (Halle attempted one in X1, then just dropped it in the sequels). However, I didn't care that Black Widow had no accent, for several reasons. One, accents are hard to do even for great actors and I would rather they not even try than try and do a terrible one. Two, BW is a world class spy and it makes sense that she could do a great American accent as part of her job (it is mentioned in the comics several times that she can disguise her Russian accent perfectly). Third, she regrets her past and the things she did, so it makes sense that she wouldn't want to be reminded of it, changing the way she speaks would help with that. As for your other points:
1. Kingpin was black because MCD was PERFECT for the character in every other way (big, strong, imposing, but also smart and sophisticated). Also, Kingpin's race isn't important to who he is.
2. Don't know why Alicia was black in FF, but I liked her.
3. Jessica Alba was simply badly miscast.
4. Nick Fury in the MCU is based off of Ultimate Nick Fury, who is both black and deliberately drawn to look like Samuel L. Jackson, so Jackson playing him makes sense.
5. There were actual cowboys in the real Old West who were full-blooded or mixed blooded Native Americans, so Roy Rogers playing a cowboy is perfectly fine.
6. There are certain characters who's race is important to who they are. Falcon was the first African-American superhero in Marvel, he should be played by a black actor. Black Panther and Blade are the same way.

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Old 09-03-2013, 12:46 PM   #143
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I agree with you that Colossus and Storm should have had accents (Halle attempted one in X1, then just dropped it in the sequels). However, I didn't care that Black Widow had no accent, for several reasons. One, accents are hard to do even for great actors and I would rather they not even try than try and do a terrible one. Two, BW is a world class spy and it makes sense that she could do a great American accent as part of her job (it is mentioned in the comics several times that she can disguise her Russian accent perfectly). Third, she regrets her past and the things she did, so it makes sense that she wouldn't want to be reminded of it, changing the way she speaks would help with that. As for your other points:
1. Kingpin was black because MCD was PERFECT for the character in every other way (big, strong, imposing, but also smart and sophisticated). Also, Kingpin's race isn't important to who he is.
2. Don't know why Alicia was black in FF, but I liked her.
3. Jessica Alba was simply badly miscast.
4. Nick Fury in the MCU is based off of Ultimate Nick Fury, who is both black and deliberately drawn to look like Samuel L. Jackson, so Jackson playing him makes sense.
5. There were actual cowboys in the real Old West who were full-blooded or mixed blooded Native Americans, so Roy Rogers playing a cowboy is perfectly fine.
6. There are certain characters who's race is important to who they are. Falcon was the first African-American superhero in Marvel, he should be played by a black actor. Black Panther and Blade are the same way.
Good points and I agree on almost everyoneone of them but more so the question is why is this an issue for some people and should it be.Many see it as a slap in the face.Are they wrong?Or should it not matter at all.
I think a Slap in the face can be defined as a total disregard and or disrespect to the history and effort put into to somthing.

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Old 09-03-2013, 12:50 PM   #144
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Good points and I agree on almost everyoneone of them but more so the question is why is this an issue for some people and should it be.Many see it as a slap in the face.Are they wrong?
I think a Slap in the face can be defined as a total disregard and or disrespect to the history and effort put into to somthing.
They are simply wrong on some of them. For instance, complaining about Nick Fury being black when that's in the comics. The others are subjective and different people will think different things.

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Old 09-03-2013, 12:52 PM   #145
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Default Re: Marvels biggest slap in the face!!!

I would not have minded if Trevor's reveal was not a joke. If it was meant to be a serious political commentary then take it seriously.

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Old 09-03-2013, 12:57 PM   #146
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They are simply wrong on some of them. For instance, complaining about Nick Fury being black when that's in the comics. The others are subjective and different people will think different things.
True and im not defending just pointing out some things.Nick Fury being black didnt happen here until recently.People who have been following Nick Fury since 1940 whatever far fetched I know but can they or should they complain?Not then would have been acceptable to do the same with Captain America.If not then why not?So Just because they change it up a little in comics does that make it ok?Spiderman was black once in the comics would that had been ok in a movie?This is streaching but there are white Africans what if Black Panther were white.Please dont everyone jump on me im just giving scenerios.

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Old 09-03-2013, 01:08 PM   #147
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True and im not defending just pointing out some things.Nick Fury being black didnt happen here until recently.People who have been following Nick Fury since 1940 whatever far fetched I know but can they or should they complain?Not then would have been acceptable to do the same with Captain America.If not then why not?So Just because they change it up a little in comics does that make it ok?Spiderman was black once in the comics would that had been ok in a movie?This is streaching but there are white Africans what if Black Panther were white.Please dont everyone jump on me im just giving scenerios.

Considering the over-abundance of Anglo-Norse characters in the comics, I find the whole argument about race-changes to be quite petty. The "upsetting" changes have been applied to either C-list characters or ones from a different universe (Ultimate.) Besides, those who discovered Nick Fury in the 1940s are either dead, senile, or have bigger concerns in their lives.

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Old 09-03-2013, 01:13 PM   #148
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Considering the over-abundance of Anglo-Norse characters in the comics, I find the whole argument about race-changes to be quite petty. The "upsetting" changes have been applied to either C-list characters or ones from a different universe (Ultimate.) Besides, those who discovered Nick Fury in the 1940s are either dead, senile, or have bigger concerns in their lives.
I understand their either dead or very old.I was making a point there are many who have been following since the 60's 70's 80' even up to the 90's.And if it's ok why wouldn't it be ok to do the same with Cap?If Cap were portrayed black in the movie would the argument still be petty?Or Sue if it's bad casting on Alba's part ok?If not and it has to do with makup and visual leave her looking hispanic.If not then why not?Why ok for some but not others why do some get a pass but not others?Is it based on how important or known the character is?Can they play around with with who they may consider to be lesser characters?Again Im just asking?

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Old 09-03-2013, 01:27 PM   #149
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The film continuities are separate from the comics; the point of the medium is to experiment and try different ideas. The desire for a panel for panel recreation of the comics stagnates the filmmaking process. Case and point: I prefer Billy Dee Williams' Harvey Dent over Aaron Eckhardt's. Eckhardt gave an award-winning performance, make no mistake; but, since Nolan decided to tap into the Big-Bad Harv characterization from the Animated series (and to an extent, the Long Halloween--the basement confrontation btw. Gilda and Dent rises to memory,) it was hard to like Dent, since his hubris was fleshed out and fed into his tragedy. I always saw Dent as a good guy who ruined because of Maroni; Nolan set Dent on a pre-destined path, which worked beautifully.
Again, this my matter of preference: Williams' Dent felt truer to the one comic interpretation I liked. But, there are myriad Dents as there are myriad Captain Americas: Mark Millar's Captain America is different than Steve Englehart's...

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Old 09-03-2013, 01:44 PM   #150
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The film continuities are separate from the comics; the point of the medium is to experiment and try different ideas. The desire for a panel for panel recreation of the comics stagnates the filmmaking process. Case and point: I prefer Billy Dee Williams' Harvey Dent over Aaron Eckhardt's. Eckhardt gave an award-winning performance, make no mistake; but, since Nolan decided to tap into the Big-Bad Harv characterization from the Animated series (and to an extent, the Long Halloween--the basement confrontation btw. Gilda and Dent rises to memory,) it was hard to like Dent, since his hubris was fleshed out and fed into his tragedy. I always saw Dent as a good guy who ruined because of Maroni; Nolan set Dent on a pre-destined path, which worked beautifully.
Again, this my matter of preference: Williams' Dent felt truer to the one comic interpretation I liked. But, there are myriad Dents as there are myriad Captain Americas: Mark Millar's Captain America is different than Steve Englehart's...
Good points I liked Williams' portrayal as well.Too bad we never saw that come into fruition.I think it would have come across as more tragic.
So what your saying is it's more trail and error.
Which is understandable but my question maybe is what determines those factors?
Why is it ok for some and not others if at all.

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