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Old 03-27-2014, 06:22 PM   #1
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Shock Fallout from The Winter Soldier [SPOILERS]

So this should go without saying, but if you haven't seen Winter Soldier, stop, turn around, walk out the door, go to the cinema, watch it, come back, and continue. There's spoilers ahoy!!





So with SHIELD being destroyed at the end of TWS (pretty fundamentally!) where does this leave us for Ultron? It's a big hanging question - clearly the remnant of SHIELD, which by the look of it is sunglasses Fury, will track down Hydra, but with no structure, who will send the call to arms to stop Ultron? Who is out there protecting the world? And will Ultron even touch on these developments?

Let's hear your best theories folks

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Old 03-27-2014, 07:13 PM   #2
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Default Re: Fallout from The Winter Soldier [SPOILERS]

I haven't seen it but what are the possibility of Fury that dief being LMD. And he's going into hiding now waiting for Avengers 3 return and just a caneo in AoU?

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Old 03-27-2014, 10:09 PM   #3
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Default Re: Fallout from The Winter Soldier [SPOILERS]

I'd use spoiler tags for that stuff.

or the blackout tags.

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Old 03-27-2014, 10:12 PM   #4
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Default Re: Fallout from The Winter Soldier [SPOILERS]

The title says spoilers.

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Old 03-27-2014, 10:15 PM   #5
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Default Re: Fallout from The Winter Soldier [SPOILERS]

yeah.....but still........

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Old 03-28-2014, 04:00 AM   #6
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Default Re: Fallout from The Winter Soldier [SPOILERS]

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The title says spoilers.
Good to see someone paying attention

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Old 03-28-2014, 08:23 AM   #7
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Default Re: Fallout from The Winter Soldier [SPOILERS]

Personally I feel the Ultron project might be a direct result of the SHIELD fallout... With SHIELD gone, this prototype AI Ultron, gets pushed to be the new Global Protection watch dog. A Perfect AI or so they think at least.

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Old 03-28-2014, 08:34 AM   #8
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Default Re: Fallout from The Winter Soldier [SPOILERS]

Hey that's a great theory! In a world without SHIELD, the idea of Stark, or the Avengers coming together and developing a new AI would work well.
I can see Ultron coming out of a HYDRA installation too, Strucker seemed up to a lot at the end

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Old 03-28-2014, 12:35 PM   #9
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Default Re: Fallout from The Winter Soldier [SPOILERS]

I love how the fall of SHIELD sets the stage for Avengers needing to regroup and assemble as a team again without any help or push from an outside construction. They will have to manage the logistics and rulings of the team by themselves – which is a great direction to take as it will hopefully challenge the dynamics of the group and lead to interesting both tensions and bondings.

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Old 03-28-2014, 01:27 PM   #10
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Default Re: Fallout from The Winter Soldier [SPOILERS]

what I'm excited about is what this does for the Agents of SHIELD tv show. they needed a game-changer, desperately. and this is it.

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Old 03-28-2014, 01:28 PM   #11
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Default Re: Fallout from The Winter Soldier [SPOILERS]

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yeah.....but still........
But still nothing, it says so in the title. That's warning enough haha.

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Old 03-28-2014, 02:24 PM   #12
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Default Re: Fallout from The Winter Soldier [SPOILERS]

The 'Ultron replacing SHIELD' theory makes a lot of sense, but the world was nearly just destroyed because of an AI (well, sort of). Why would the government, or the public for that matter, trust another one to keep them all safe? Stark would probably see the dangers as well, and he wouldn't get roped into working for the US government under any circumstances. Comics Stark, probably, but movie Stark, no way.

Another theory I had is that Tony has a realisation early on in the movie that he isn't going to be around forever, and neither will the Avengers - maybe he's nearly killed (Crossbones?) and realises this. So creates Ultron as a hero that will always be around and never die, for when the Avengers aren't needed anymore, and then he turns bad.

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Old 03-28-2014, 03:02 PM   #13
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Default Re: Fallout from The Winter Soldier [SPOILERS]

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what I'm excited about is what this does for the Agents of SHIELD tv show. they needed a game-changer, desperately. and this is it.
Yeah, there's a real chance for AoS to become the vital storyteller post-TWS, and actually explore the ramifications of Hydra. Exciting times for them

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Old 04-08-2014, 08:31 PM   #14
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Default Re: Fallout from The Winter Soldier [SPOILERS]

I think the metaphorical train tracks from TWS to AOU pass through these stations:

1) With SHIELD gone, The Avengers(tm) are now formally Earth's Mightiest Heroes, and the front line of defense for the planet. The Avengers in AOU will be a *lot* more like the formalized superfriends we know and love from the comics, instead of the loose band of part-timers we saw in the first movie.

2) I believe now, more than ever, that Ultron is a product of HYDRA, and of Arnim Zola specifically. Zola is now an AI, a ghost in the machine, just as I said he would be. He didn't "die" in TWS; far from it. As an AI, he's free to travel anywhere in the Net (this is Cyberpunk 101, people....also on display in the movie Transendence coming up in a couple of weeks).

3) Strucker said he would send Cap and his costumed friends on wild goose chases (or something to that effect) to keep them occupied, and I believe that firmly points towards the fact that HYDRA is about to activate the Ultron algorithm.

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Old 04-08-2014, 11:54 PM   #15
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Default Re: Fallout from The Winter Soldier [SPOILERS]

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I think the metaphorical train tracks from TWS to AOU pass through these stations:

1) With SHIELD gone, The Avengers(tm) are now formally Earth's Mightiest Heroes, and the front line of defense for the planet. The Avengers in AOU will be a *lot* more like the formalized superfriends we know and love from the comics, instead of the loose band of part-timers we saw in the first movie.

2) I believe now, more than ever, that Ultron is a product of HYDRA, and of Arnim Zola specifically. Zola is now an AI, a ghost in the machine, just as I said he would be. He didn't "die" in TWS; far from it. As an AI, he's free to travel anywhere in the Net (this is Cyberpunk 101, people....also on display in the movie Transendence coming up in a couple of weeks).

3) Strucker said he would send Cap and his costumed friends on wild goose chases (or something to that effect) to keep them occupied, and I believe that firmly points towards the fact that HYDRA is about to activate the Ultron algorithm.
everything u said!!! That is my exact thoughts too...zola is very important.

I also thought of transcendence, the johnny depp movie!! I think ultron will be similar to johnny depp role in that film..

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Old 04-09-2014, 06:51 AM   #16
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Default Re: Fallout from The Winter Soldier [SPOILERS]

My concept:

SHIELD is gone, HYDRA is everywhere, the Avengers need some kind of help to find/kill them, Tony creates the U.L.T.R.O.N. AI program (from his own brain patterns) to replace SHIELD. Instead it gains sentience with a super amplified version of Tonys narcissm/ego (God complex), wants to kill its creator and The Avengers, take over the world. It builds a body, creates an army of drones and The Vision, hijacked from JARVIS' AI to assist him. Tonys now the blame for the new problem, turning the great hero we all love into the Fredo Coreleone outcast of the story (see Godfather 2, one of Joss' main inspirations for story structure).

HYDRA kicks back with a glass of ice tea and lets ULTRON do his thing.

Another possibiity is that Tony creates the ULTRON AI with an Armored suit as a replacement for Iron Man (the next step after IM3) and it goes nuts. Then it hijacks JARVIS, rebuilds itself etc


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Old 04-09-2014, 08:47 AM   #17
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Default Re: Fallout from The Winter Soldier [SPOILERS]

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2) I believe now, more than ever, that Ultron is a product of HYDRA, and of Arnim Zola specifically. Zola is now an AI, a ghost in the machine, just as I said he would be. He didn't "die" in TWS; far from it. As an AI, he's free to travel anywhere in the Net (this is Cyberpunk 101, people....also on display in the movie Transendence coming up in a couple of weeks).
The Transcendence comparison is spot-on. And Widow plugged that drive into Zola's AI computer, and then later released the contents of that drive onto the internet. I wouldn't be surprised if Zola hitched a ride onto the World Wide Web, courtesy of Ms. Romanoff.

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Old 04-09-2014, 10:10 AM   #18
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The Transcendence comparison is spot-on. And Widow plugged that drive into Zola's AI computer, and then later released the contents of that drive onto the internet. I wouldn't be surprised if Zola hitched a ride onto the World Wide Web, courtesy of Ms. Romanoff.
Perfect. Perfect.
This would also explain one of Joss' cryptic statements about the Avengers having a hand in creating Ultron.....Widow accidentally releases Zola's evil AI into the Internet; Zola uses that to hack into JARVIS and literally get inside Tony Stark's head. Especially if Tony Stark creates a version of Extremis and/or Bleeding Edge armor, as I firmly believe he will (why wouldn't he, since IM3 pretty much set that up?)

Extremis armor is essentially controlled by Stark's mind; so if Zola can hack into JARVIS, he can literally control Tony Stark's mind and all of his armors.

There's your Ultron, and Iron Ultron Legion.

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Old 04-09-2014, 10:27 AM   #19
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Default Re: Fallout from The Winter Soldier [SPOILERS]

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Perfect. Perfect.
This would also explain one of Joss' cryptic statements about the Avengers having a hand in creating Ultron.....Widow accidentally releases Zola's evil AI into the Internet; Zola uses that to hack into JARVIS and literally get inside Tony Stark's head. Especially if Tony Stark creates a version of Extremis and/or Bleeding Edge armor, as I firmly believe he will (why wouldn't he, since IM3 pretty much set that up?)

Extremis armor is essentially controlled by Stark's mind; so if Zola can hack into JARVIS, he can literally control Tony Stark's mind and all of his armors.

There's your Ultron, and Iron Ultron Legion.
So Zola = Ultron?

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Old 04-09-2014, 10:30 AM   #20
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Default Re: Fallout from The Winter Soldier [SPOILERS]

When Cap and Nat went into the underground room and turned on the computer I thought it was gonna be an early version of ULTRON.

Now we have to get James Spader's voice into the mix. How does that happen? If Tony or his dad created JARVIS' voice, then wouldnt Tony create ULTRONs as opposed to Zola? Zolas ULTRON would probably sound like a psychotic Nazi.

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Old 04-09-2014, 10:34 AM   #21
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Perfect. Perfect.
This would also explain one of Joss' cryptic statements about the Avengers having a hand in creating Ultron.....Widow accidentally releases Zola's evil AI into the Internet; Zola uses that to hack into JARVIS and literally get inside Tony Stark's head. Especially if Tony Stark creates a version of Extremis and/or Bleeding Edge armor, as I firmly believe he will (why wouldn't he, since IM3 pretty much set that up?)

Extremis armor is essentially controlled by Stark's mind; so if Zola can hack into JARVIS, he can literally control Tony Stark's mind and all of his armors.

There's your Ultron, and Iron Ultron Legion.
Exactly. And if Hydra initially creates Ultron with the primary purpose of being able to take on Thor and The Hulk then we've got a connection to every single Avenger.

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Old 04-09-2014, 01:52 PM   #22
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Maybe the algorithm itself is Ultron. Or will become Ultron. Either way, I don't see Zola becoming Ultron. Rather, he might accidentally perpetrate it.

Before they discover Zola, Widow describes as what's on the harddrive as an AI that's capable of rewriting it's code. Zola is probably floating around the net as a ghost in the machine, and may seek to sabotage Stark's technology and apply the algorithm to a legion of suits. Next best thing to fully armed helicarriers right? Whatever it takes to bring the original plan back to motion.

So he interfaces with JARVIS, the AI who serves as the foremost security on Tony's suits, but upon exposure to an AI as advanced as JARVIS, the algorithm decides to rewrite itself to match JARVIS's sophistication. (He's almost sentient as far as I'm concerned. Great jumping off point to turn JARVIS into Vision if that's the route Marvel wants to take.)

So not only does it become a fully realized AI, but it breaks free from whatever protocols that were limiting it before. It forms it's own viewpoints and agendas, much to the chagrin of Zola and the rest of HYDRA. Project Insight serves as a jumping off point for Ultron's methods, but instead of targeting threats to HYDRA, it see's all life as a threat. So after screwing Tony over in some way, the AI forges a body for itself and calls itself Ultron.

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Old 04-09-2014, 02:57 PM   #23
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Default Re: Fallout from The Winter Soldier [SPOILERS]

I wouldn't be surprised if AGE OF ULTRON is basically designed to justify SHIELD's return.

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Old 04-09-2014, 06:40 PM   #24
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Maybe the algorithm itself is Ultron. Or will become Ultron. Either way, I don't see Zola becoming Ultron. Rather, he might accidentally perpetrate it.

Before they discover Zola, Widow describes as what's on the harddrive as an AI that's capable of rewriting it's code. Zola is probably floating around the net as a ghost in the machine, and may seek to sabotage Stark's technology and apply the algorithm to a legion of suits. Next best thing to fully armed helicarriers right? Whatever it takes to bring the original plan back to motion.

So he interfaces with JARVIS, the AI who serves as the foremost security on Tony's suits, but upon exposure to an AI as advanced as JARVIS, the algorithm decides to rewrite itself to match JARVIS's sophistication. (He's almost sentient as far as I'm concerned. Great jumping off point to turn JARVIS into Vision if that's the route Marvel wants to take.)

So not only does it become a fully realized AI, but it breaks free from whatever protocols that were limiting it before. It forms it's own viewpoints and agendas, much to the chagrin of Zola and the rest of HYDRA. Project Insight serves as a jumping off point for Ultron's methods, but instead of targeting threats to HYDRA, it see's all life as a threat. So after screwing Tony over in some way, the AI forges a body for itself and calls itself Ultron.
Or, why even forge a body for itself to manifest physically, when he/it can *borrow* one...?

I've always been a firm believer and advocate for Extremis Armor showing up in AOU. It's a logical next step for Tony --- IM3 set up Extremis, and Tony has been working towards perfecting his armor to the point that it literally becomes an extension of his own body and mind. That's what Extremis/Bleeding Edge is in the comics: the armor is literally sheathed *inside* Tony's body and under his skin through nanotech, and is controlled by Tony's mind. So, if a powerful AI like Ultron hacked into that, he would literally own Tony Stark/Iron Man. Make a few "alterations" and "upgrades" here and there, as Ultron is wont to do, and voila --- Iron Man literally becomes Ultron. Which is what I believe the point of that SDCC teaser trailer was all along.

(I said "literally" too many times in this post. Literally.)

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Old 04-09-2014, 06:48 PM   #25
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Default Re: Fallout from The Winter Soldier [SPOILERS]

All I can say is theres so many interesting takes on how ULTRONs creation will happen in here. Its going to be awesome to see what Joss came up with for it.

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