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Old 11-19-2013, 12:10 AM   #51
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Default Re: Batman as a Vehicle for the Surveillance State

Originally Posted by Shikamaru View Post
"Spying for the sake of spying" refers to a routine daily check on a grand scale just in case something might go wrong. It is basically what the NSA does.
No, that's what they tell the citizens to ease them into giving up their liberties. They're doing it for their interests alone. Which leads to...

Again, my point is not that he doesn't spy on people but that he isn't obsessed with spying on people. That's what I'm trying to argue. Batman is not the type of guy to do a routine daily check on every Gotham citizen just in case one might be hiding something (again, I'm excluding the Elseworld stuff). He is not a "vehicle for the surveillance state" in that sense. He would still be against what the NSA does. And again, that doesn't mean he would avoid violating someone's privacy because he would view it as immoral; just that he would be against governments having that power.
Batman's infrastructure is merely a microcosm of what the NSA is actively doing; monitoring and collating our information without consent to aid in future goals. He already has systems set up all over the place so within seconds he can get what he needs. I'm sure his supercomputers are doing all the labor for him so he can press some buttons just start reading. No one has that prescience without the intent of collecting. Of course he's obsessed. Batman wouldn't exist without that extreme drive.

Now, Batman genuinely is using all this information to stop crime and/or prevent deaths. The NSA is using this to protect their future business/political interests and build control. It's an important distinction, but it doesn't change that their methods are one in the same here. Just on different scales.

The argument wouldn't be whether Batman represents a surveillance state (all evidence shows he absolutely does on some levels), but whether his use of information is of justifiable means.

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Old 11-19-2013, 12:20 AM   #52
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Default Re: Batman as a Vehicle for the Surveillance State

I think if we accept a Batman that formulates plans to take out the other members of the JL(and let's be real…probably on everyone with superpowers) it wouldn't put it past him to spy on people.

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Old 11-20-2013, 03:53 AM   #53
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Default Re: Batman as a Vehicle for the Surveillance State

Let me say since ideology and politics are being questioned with Superman and Batman. This is why I am a fan of the pre- Robin Batman of the Bob Kane era and Golden age Superman.

Keep in mind that Batman and Superman had New Deal/ Fair Deal attitudes on the world. There was hints of Batman using drones. In the Dark Detective, Batman used a drone to track the scarecrow to a barn 200 miles away from Gotham. Even in the TAS eps. The Last Laugh, Batman used a ballon for surveilling the Joker's gas.

I think Batman Affleck's Batman should more mysterious then showing all of the toys.

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