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Old 09-02-2013, 04:32 PM   #26
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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Originally Posted by Mr. Dent View Post
If Marvel had FF I guarantee it would be a $600m+ per movie franchise.

EDIT: If the movie fails and goes back to Marvel even if we don't get another FF movie for a long time I'll still be happy because Galactus, Silver Surfer, Annihilus, the Negative Zone, full Skrull rights, Latveria, and Doom will be back at Marvel.

So no, hoping the movie fails isn't silly. There's a win in it either way.


this as well... even if we ddn't get the FF for a bit.. we could easily get a Silver Surfer film (which for a twist, could introduce the F4 in it's sequel)

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Old 09-02-2013, 04:52 PM   #27
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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I disagree, Marvel actually has faith in their properties. We might get the Fan 4 showing up in another movie like The Avengers before we get their solo, but marvel isn't going to let their first family sit on a shelf. Especially if they too feel FOX hasn't handled them properly.

No matter how bad FOX handles the FF they will return again... if Batman can recover from the Schumacher films.. and Superman can recover from Returns... FF will be a piece of cake if handled decently.
Why do they need to appear in The Avengers? The Avengers is about the Avengers not the F4.

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Old 09-02-2013, 05:46 PM   #28
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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Why do they need to appear in The Avengers? The Avengers is about the Avengers not the F4.
i didn't say "THEY NEED TO" for starters. I'm just saying if FOX kills this franchise, and marvel tries to pick it up, rather than a solo film, they may introduce them in a team-up film first...

Namor, Avengers, Black Panther, Silver Surfer, Inhumans, etc... are ALL major characters that interact quite often with the Fantastic Four.

meaning if FOX produces this film, and it flops horribly, and marvel gets the rights back, Marvel may want to rejuvenate the team by introducing them with other characters. Basically piggy backing the Fan4 before giving them a solo film.

It may re-spark interest in a dead franchise.

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Old 09-02-2013, 06:40 PM   #29
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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If Fox makes the movie and this one fails, IMO, it will be 3 strikes and this franchise will be dead for good. Marvel/Disney will look for other family oriented superhero franchises that they already own to take the place of the F4. Can anyone take a guess?

Either Fox finally gets it right, which they can do....or they don't do it at all and the rights can then go back to Marvel for a restart, or it fails and we never see an F4 movie on the big screen again. So right now, if Fox does it, I want a fantastic movie, for the simple reason that I like going to good movies.

This "I hope it fails..." stuff is just silly, and if we see the movie going into production and we begin to see things happen, I hope you guys who are on the "I hope it fails..." bandwagon, move on, because it won't be much fun around here for you I'm afraid.
I appreciate that you and many others here just want good superhero movies. I understand that you're satisfied with that.

I'm not.

A single good (even great) superhero movie was enough for me 5 years ago. Not anymore.

Now I'm spoiled. Now I want a great superhero movie that's a part of a great superhero universe. Anything else just doesn't cut it anymore.

I am first and foremost a Marvel Cinematic Universe fan above being a fan of any individual film or character. How is that any less valid than just being a fan of "Spider-Man" or "Iron Man" or "The Fantastic Four"?

So, if I "want the film to fail", I do so because I care more about growing the Marvel Cinematic Universe than getting a single good stand-alone Fantastic Four film. Unfortunately, the way things have worked out, the only way to get the FF back to Marvel is for the rights the lapse or Fox to sell them back...and that will only happen if they give up production or if their reboot bombs.

So, yes...I want them to give up production or for their reboot to bomb. I'd want the same thing regarding X-Men or Spider-Man, too.

Does that mean I won't go see their films, or not enjoy the movies or say that they're good or great if they really are? Absolutely not. I'm not boycotting anything here. That would be stupid. All I want is for the MCU to have all of its players back on the team as soon as possible. That's all. And if it has to be at the cost of some failing movies, then so be it.

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Old 09-02-2013, 06:44 PM   #30
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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Originally Posted by RedBlueWonder View Post
Why do they need to appear in The Avengers? The Avengers is about the Avengers not the F4.
You seen to know so little about the Marvel Comic Universe with this statement.. Before you type another word, find a way to watch Avengers :Earths Mightiest Heros the season finale (Season 2 ep 26)

That will let you know that just because you have your own team (per say) when the threat is global "We Are All Avengers"

Edit: And before you go "Well were talking about the MCU and Comics/Cartoons translating to film" I still stand by that with that fact in mind..


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Old 09-02-2013, 06:44 PM   #31
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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Originally Posted by kaijunexus View Post
I appreciate that you and many others here just want good superhero movies. I understand that you're satisfied with that.

I'm not.

A single good (even great) superhero movie was enough for me 5 years ago. Not anymore.

Now I'm spoiled. Now I want a great superhero movie that's a part of a great superhero universe. Anything else just doesn't cut it anymore.

I am first and foremost a Marvel Cinematic Universe fan above being a fan of any individual film or character. How is that any less valid than just being a fan of "Spider-Man" or "Iron Man" or "The Fantastic Four"?

So, if I "want the film to fail", I do so because I care more about growing the Marvel Cinematic Universe than getting a single good stand-alone Fantastic Four film. Unfortunately, the way things have worked out, the only way to get the FF back to Marvel is for the rights the lapse or Fox to sell them back...and that will only happen if they give up production or if their reboot bombs.

So, yes...I want them to give up production or for their reboot to bomb. I'd want the same thing regarding X-Men or Spider-Man, too.

Does that mean I won't go see their films, or not enjoy the movies or say that they're good or great if they really are? Absolutely not. I'm not boycotting anything here. That would be stupid. All I want is for the MCU to have all of its players back on the team as soon as possible. That's all. And if it has to be at the cost of some failing movies, then so be it.
sums up my thoughts as well

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Old 09-02-2013, 07:24 PM   #32
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

When we get right down to it, I think there are two primary objectives:

1. A high quality series of FF films.
2. A shard universe in which the FF can interact with all other Marvel characters and Dr. Doom, Galactus and Silver Surfer can be used in other Marvel films.

Obviously the best, clearest route to those objectives is for Marvel to get the rights, and that's what many of us our hoping for.

But if that doesn't happen, what's the next best thing?

Those objectives could also be met if Fox makes a great film and works with Marvel to share some characters and create one big, shared Marvel Universe between Marvel, Sony and Fox.

That shared universe may seem unlikely and it may seem nave to hope for it, but I believe such a plan would be beneficial to all involved. If Marvel realizes that Fox really is serious about making FF films for the next 20 years (and neither we, nor Marvel. . . nor Fox for that matter really know Fox's intentions at this point) I believe Marvel will start looking for ways that they can work together.

As I mentioned in my previous post, a failed movie would likely mean Marvel couldn't make an FF film . . . or any films featuring Doom, Galactus or Surfer, until 2025 or later.

And as Kelly pointed out, another failed film could just kill the franchise. Then we need to remember that even if Marvel makes an FF film in 2025, we have no guarantee that film won't be a stinker.

So with all that in mind and the objectives I've stated above in mind, I can't see how a failed film is a realistic route toward those objectives.

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Old 09-02-2013, 07:28 PM   #33
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

Someone said this on another forum. What if FOX bought the rights to Namor from Universal. Would that make a better foe for FF??

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Old 09-02-2013, 07:42 PM   #34
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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Originally Posted by kaijunexus View Post
I appreciate that you and many others here just want good superhero movies. I understand that you're satisfied with that.

I'm not.

A single good (even great) superhero movie was enough for me 5 years ago. Not anymore.

Now I'm spoiled. Now I want a great superhero movie that's a part of a great superhero universe. Anything else just doesn't cut it anymore.
I agree. I'm spoiled too. Seeing the Avengers realized was amazing and seeing the MCU continue to expand has made me realize the potential here. And now watching an FF film without Namor, the Inhumans, the Hulk or the Black Panther frankly blows as much as the Avengers never crossing paths with Dr. Doom or Thanos facing down Galactus or Annihilus taking on the Nova Corps.

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Old 09-02-2013, 07:47 PM   #35
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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Someone said this on another forum. What if FOX bought the rights to Namor from Universal. Would that make a better foe for FF??
I don't think it works like that. These rights aren't like trading cards. But I agree Namor has to go somewhere. Either MCU or the FF. I'd much prefer him in the MCU at this point however. I don't trust Fox and Subbie predates the FF anyway. Give us the Invaders and give us Namor vs. the (original) Human Torch.

Actually how the Sub-Mariner's rights are still at Universal has me dumbfounded honestly. They've done absolutely nothing with him and what was with the Easter egg in Iron Man 2?

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Old 09-02-2013, 07:48 PM   #36
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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Originally Posted by Willie Lumpkin View Post
When we get right down to it, I think there are two primary objectives:

1. A high quality series of FF films.
2. A shard universe in which the FF can interact with all other Marvel characters and Dr. Doom, Galactus and Silver Surfer can be used in other Marvel films.

Obviously the best, clearest route to those objectives is for Marvel to get the rights, and that's what many of us our hoping for.

But if that doesn't happen, what's the next best thing?

Those objectives could also be met if Fox makes a great film and works with Marvel to share some characters and create one big, shared Marvel Universe between Marvel, Sony and Fox.

That shared universe may seem unlikely and it may seem nave to hope for it, but I believe such a plan would be beneficial to all involved. If Marvel realizes that Fox really is serious about making FF films for the next 20 years (and neither we, nor Marvel. . . nor Fox for that matter really know Fox's intentions at this point) I believe Marvel will start looking for ways that they can work together.

As I mentioned in my previous post, a failed movie would likely mean Marvel couldn't make an FF film . . . or any films featuring Doom, Galactus or Surfer, until 2025 or later.

And as Kelly pointed out, another failed film could just kill the franchise. Then we need to remember that even if Marvel makes an FF film in 2025, we have no guarantee that film won't be a stinker.

So with all that in mind and the objectives I've stated above in mind, I can't see how a failed film is a realistic route toward those objectives.
Well said!

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Old 09-02-2013, 08:00 PM   #37
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

That's three days of September down...27 more to go.

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Old 09-02-2013, 08:08 PM   #38
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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Originally Posted by Willie Lumpkin View Post
When we get right down to it, I think there are two primary objectives:

1. A high quality series of FF films.
2. A shard universe in which the FF can interact with all other Marvel characters and Dr. Doom, Galactus and Silver Surfer can be used in other Marvel films.

Obviously the best, clearest route to those objectives is for Marvel to get the rights, and that's what many of us our hoping for.

But if that doesn't happen, what's the next best thing?

Those objectives could also be met if Fox makes a great film and works with Marvel to share some characters and create one big, shared Marvel Universe between Marvel, Sony and Fox.

That shared universe may seem unlikely and it may seem nave to hope for it, but I believe such a plan would be beneficial to all involved. If Marvel realizes that Fox really is serious about making FF films for the next 20 years (and neither we, nor Marvel. . . nor Fox for that matter really know Fox's intentions at this point) I believe Marvel will start looking for ways that they can work together.

As I mentioned in my previous post, a failed movie would likely mean Marvel couldn't make an FF film . . . or any films featuring Doom, Galactus or Surfer, until 2025 or later.

And as Kelly pointed out, another failed film could just kill the franchise. Then we need to remember that even if Marvel makes an FF film in 2025, we have no guarantee that film won't be a stinker.

So with all that in mind and the objectives I've stated above in mind, I can't see how a failed film is a realistic route toward those objectives.
as i suggested above, if FOX kills F4 franchise with a crappy movie, it's possible they may give-up the rights to the property (similar to what sony did with Ghostrider). And Marvel could potentially introduce the F4 by hyping them up by having them piggy-back off of other Marvel properties before giving them a solo (Similarly how it's possible for us to still get a Black Widow Solo, and a Incredible Hulk sequel by those characters getting major ratings boosts and peaking audience interest by showing they can be very interesting, fun, and worth while characters.

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Old 09-02-2013, 08:32 PM   #39
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

I could see possibly Johnny hooking up in an Avengers movie for Marvel, but I just don't see them putting money out there for all of the 4 in a movie already top heavy with CGI.

I am an F4 fan first, I have only gotten interested in other characters by hanging out here and I've grown to love Iron Man, which brought me to the Avengers. I love the family dynamic of the F4, and I would be "ok" with them in an Avengers movie, mainly because I royally loved the Avengers movie, but it would not be the same for me by a long shot. So, though I would be ok with that scenario, I don't know that I want to wait that long to see a great F4 movie on the big screen, and if Fox can give that to me, cool.

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Old 09-02-2013, 08:56 PM   #40
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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as i suggested above, if FOX kills F4 franchise with a crappy movie, it's possible they may give-up the rights to the property (similar to what sony did with Ghostrider). And Marvel could potentially introduce the F4 by hyping them up by having them piggy-back off of other Marvel properties before giving them a solo (Similarly how it's possible for us to still get a Black Widow Solo, and a Incredible Hulk sequel by those characters getting major ratings boosts and peaking audience interest by showing they can be very interesting, fun, and worth while characters.
True, but aren't you jumping the gun a little bit by hoping a failed movie leads to Fox giving up the rights? Based on what we currently know (and from your previous posts I'm probably preaching to the choir here) isn't it just as likely that a lack of faith from Fox in the property could lead to them giving up the rights without first making a crappy film?

Until we actually have a cast and see production moving forward, I think it's premature to even start discussing Fox making a bad film as something to hope for.

One concern that I have is even a lousy film could still be reasonably successful financially. There are still a lot of people who love these characters (just look at how popular this forum is). Fox will sell tickets even if it sucks. With a low enough budget plus DVD and TV rights, Fox could make money with a lousy film and then we'll have a real nightmare scenario.

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Old 09-02-2013, 09:04 PM   #41
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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I could see possibly Johnny hooking up in an Avengers movie for Marvel, but I just don't see them putting money out there for all of the 4 in a movie already top heavy with CGI.

I am an F4 fan first, I have only gotten interested in other characters by hanging out here and I've grown to love Iron Man, which brought me to the Avengers. I love the family dynamic of the F4, and I would be "ok" with them in an Avengers movie, mainly because I royally loved the Avengers movie, but it would not be the same for me by a long shot. So, though I would be ok with that scenario, I don't know that I want to wait that long to see a great F4 movie on the big screen, and if Fox can give that to me, cool.
I see the Fantastic Four easily interacting with Hulk/Banner to take down a Hulk Foe (both properties could even help rejuvenate each other's solo potential. I could also see both easily with Ant-Man/Pym

Where I could see them with Iron Man as well... I think it'd be a mistake to keep attempting to use Tony as the "crutch of the mcu". I don't think Torch would feel natural, but intro-ing the team (or even with just Reed and Ben (or Sue) pre-powers, with people looking towards Richards as a scientist could be quite brilliant and interesting.

Silver Surfer would also be interesting in a sequel would be great. Some how tieing a cosmic event for him into the teams origin.

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Old 09-02-2013, 09:08 PM   #42
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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True, but aren't you jumping the gun a little bit by hoping a failed movie leads to Fox giving up the rights? Based on what we currently know (and from your previous posts I'm probably preaching to the choir here) isn't it just as likely that a lack of faith from Fox in the property could lead to them giving up the rights without first making a crappy film?

Until we actually have a cast and see production moving forward, I think it's premature to even start discussing Fox making a bad film as something to hope for.

One concern that I have is even a lousy film could still be reasonably successful financially. There are still a lot of people who love these characters (just look at how popular this forum is). Fox will sell tickets even if it sucks. With a low enough budget plus DVD and TV rights, Fox could make money with a lousy film and then we'll have a real nightmare scenario.
I am completely jumping the gun, it's all hypothetical on a "what if"scenario. I think FOX his made it quite clear that they will clutch onto the rights until they're up, or until Marvel/Disney pays a hefty price for them.

The film would have to look very amazing to bring in an audience even as big as ROTSS, which was considered a flop... it would have to far out perform that imo for any executive at FOX to want to continue the franchise. I'd honestly consider this investment a "High Risk" for FOX

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Old 09-02-2013, 09:32 PM   #43
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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I see the Fantastic Four easily interacting with Hulk/Banner to take down a Hulk Foe (both properties could even help rejuvenate each other's solo potential. I could also see both easily with Ant-Man/Pym

Where I could see them with Iron Man as well... I think it'd be a mistake to keep attempting to use Tony as the "crutch of the mcu". I don't think Torch would feel natural, but intro-ing the team (or even with just Reed and Ben (or Sue) pre-powers, with people looking towards Richards as a scientist could be quite brilliant and interesting.

Silver Surfer would also be interesting in a sequel would be great. Some how tieing a cosmic event for him into the teams origin.

Well, for many I'm sure those team ups would be fine, but for me....I'm not a fan of Hulk except what I saw in the Avengers, and I have absolutely no desire to see an Ant-Man movie. I'm in Willie's boat as well, if they take too long I'll be retired and looking to travel rather than watch movies for entertainment. I think we are just at a different point in life than you guys.

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Old 09-02-2013, 10:40 PM   #44
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Well, for many I'm sure those team ups would be fine, but for me....I'm not a fan of Hulk except what I saw in the Avengers, and I have absolutely no desire to see an Ant-Man movie. I'm in Willie's boat as well, if they take too long I'll be retired and looking to travel rather than watch movies for entertainment. I think we are just at a different point in life than you guys.
... Nothing i stated was time consuming though. So not really sure where your assuming it is. We could have 2 F4 films in a matter of 10 years from either studio depending on the situation

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Old 09-03-2013, 05:30 AM   #45
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

There is a certain limit to the amount of Avengers on screen.

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Old 09-03-2013, 08:48 AM   #46
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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I don't think it works like that. These rights aren't like trading cards. But I agree Namor has to go somewhere. Either MCU or the FF. I'd much prefer him in the MCU at this point however. I don't trust Fox and Subbie predates the FF anyway. Give us the Invaders and give us Namor vs. the (original) Human Torch.

Actually how the Sub-Mariner's rights are still at Universal has me dumbfounded honestly. They've done absolutely nothing with him and what was with the Easter egg in Iron Man 2?
They probably sold the rights outright. Every deal is different with every studio. There may not be a 5-7 year plan, and Universal has it indefinitely. Universal will need tentpoles, especially if the next JP movie fails, but Namor is unlikely to provide that. That's when you may see Universal selling off their properties or being acquired by another major studio, and then whala, Namor is at Disney or Fox. But F&F and JP can still keep them afloat. Also, are they not co-producing with Legendary now? That means World of Warcraft is in DA HOUSE!!! So Universal won't be going away anytime soon.

Anyhow, I am all for a Fox FF movie as long as they can loan out some characters to the MCU when appropriate (and vice versa), or the two studios can co-finance some Marvel stuff. I don't think it's completely fictitious to see that scenario. Major rivals have worked together before on big budget projects. You have to combine forces sometimes in a volatile economy, especially one as capricious as the movie business.

There are many Marvel fans, even on these boards, that simply do not have an interest in upcoming MCU films like Ant-Man and GotG. I am one of those fans. If these movies underperform, Marvel is going to want safer bets, and you wonder if that will play into trying to reacquire the FF. As Disney, I would want that property above any other at the moment.


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Old 09-03-2013, 08:52 AM   #47
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

Disney should use some of that Avengers money to buy FF then.
I could see a X-Men film possibly bombing and the rights going back.

Marvel played to right move in buying the merchandise rights for Spider-Man because there is no way in hell a Spidey movie will bomb.

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Old 09-03-2013, 08:54 AM   #48
Willie Lumpkin
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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I see the Fantastic Four easily interacting with Hulk/Banner to take down a Hulk Foe (both properties could even help rejuvenate each other's solo potential. I could also see both easily with Ant-Man/Pym

Where I could see them with Iron Man as well... I think it'd be a mistake to keep attempting to use Tony as the "crutch of the mcu". I don't think Torch would feel natural, but intro-ing the team (or even with just Reed and Ben (or Sue) pre-powers, with people looking towards Richards as a scientist could be quite brilliant and interesting.

Silver Surfer would also be interesting in a sequel would be great. Some how tieing a cosmic event for him into the teams origin.
This is the sort of thing that I think could eventually lead to some cooperation down the road. (probably not any time soon, but I'm imagining what might happen if Fox really does decide to hang onto the rights and make films)

Imagine Fox makes a couple FF films and then says: "You know, it would really be cool if we could have the FF battle the Hulk." So they go to Marvel and actually start having some civil discussions and Marvel says: "Sure, that would be cool. And by the way, we would like to use Galactus in an upcoming film, so let's see how we can work to combine these universes."

Based on the fact that it's September and we've heard absolutely zilch, I'm still very skeptical that Fox really wants to make an FF film, and I'm getting more skeptical by the day. But if they do, I think the best, most likely route for us to get what we want is what I've outlined above.

If Fox makes another terrible film (and I have to believe they will either make something they think is good or let the rights go - I don't think there's any business sense in continuing to make crap), it's going to be a long, miserable wait until we see the FF, Galactus, Silver Surfer or Dr. Doom done right in a film from anybody.

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Old 09-03-2013, 08:58 AM   #49
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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There is a certain limit to the amount of Avengers on screen.
And 10+ years from now the current roster of actors probaby won't still be in the roles...

Also the Fan 4 arnt avengers... Just teaming up with them. And there's plenty of movies that have found ways to juggle a huge cast well.... So its certainly do-able.


But again this is just a possible path for one route the future could take.

There's many...

-FOX could make the film and its great and the rights and franchise is renewed and marvel never gets the rights back

- FOX could make a mediocre film and renew the rights. The film isn't really considered a success but FOX still clutches onto the rights for many more years

- FOX could make a flop and marvel acquires the rights easily and finds a way to rejuvinate the franchise either in risking a solo or pairing them up with a popular hero.

- FOX could flop and kill the franchise, and while i think its a small chance, marvel does want to touch the property either, at least not for a long long time

-and then the most likely scenario... FOX "daredevil's" this film and its never made letting the rights revert

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Old 09-03-2013, 09:04 AM   #50
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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-and then the most likely scenario... FOX "daredevil's" this film and its never made letting the rights revert
That's not a likely scenario. Fox is biding time, looking to see how GotG does at the box office. Then Ant-Man. As long as they can find the proper wording in the contracts, or go to court and appeal to buy time, then they can drag this out into late 2014 or perhaps 2015. I am not saying Fox has a ton of leverage here, but more than likely they are looking for a settlement. If Marvel properties continue to bank, then Fox is under even greater pressure to hold onto the rights and make a good film. But Fox knows they have something Marvel desperately wants. The Holy Grail is probably Spidey, then FF no doubt (with X-Men being unrealistic). Unless the DC Universe also becomes available one day...

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