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Old 10-02-2013, 07:14 PM   #551
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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So you've read the contracts? I'm afraid that I haven't, but we can safely assume that Disney will be much more aggressive in asserting its IP rights than a post bankruptcy Marvel.
where are you getting the idea that it violates the IP?

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Old 10-02-2013, 07:24 PM   #552
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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where are you getting the idea that it violates the IP?
Where are you getting the idea that it doesn't? Marvel sold the X- Men and FF film rights off as two distinct character families under two different contracts. Disney could make the argument, in court if necessary, that merging these two families together diminishes their value as individual entities.

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Old 10-02-2013, 07:30 PM   #553
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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So you've read the contracts? I'm afraid that I haven't, but we can safely assume that Disney will be much more aggressive in asserting its IP rights than a post bankruptcy Marvel.
No, don't need to. They were drafted before Disney/MCU, so they can't change the terms.

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Old 10-02-2013, 07:30 PM   #554
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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Where are you getting the idea that it doesn't? Marvel sold the X- Men and FF film rights off as two distinct character families under two different contracts. Disney could make the argument, in court if necessary, that merging these two families together diminishes their value as individual entities.
1) You are not a lawyer so stop trying to pretend to be one.
2) Millar has said that the movie universe will show each other...just not the first Fantastic Four movie and DOFP. That's what his tweet said.
3) If Disney showed up in court and tried to say that putting more than one superhero in a movie would diminish the value...the judge would laugh at them and then go watch Avengers.

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Old 10-02-2013, 07:31 PM   #555
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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No, don't need to. They were drafted before Disney/MCU, so they can't change the terms.
No one is saying they can change the terms

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Old 10-02-2013, 07:34 PM   #556
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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No one is saying they can change the terms
My bad.

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Old 10-02-2013, 07:38 PM   #557
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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Originally Posted by roach View Post
take a look at the Fantastic Four deleted scenes

but don't take my word for it
Here's what Mark Millar, the creative consultant at Fox had to say:
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hea...ic-four-609005

"without question I think you have to see some of these guys showing up in each other's movies" when it comes to possible X-Men cameos in the Fantastic Four release."
Wow people are still listening to Miller? How about taking Singer's word for for it, "I've not spoken to Mark at all. I don't know what his role is" 3/11/13

Now almost 7 months later he's back at it...SMH

So if the script that Miller read and spoke so highly about in January was so great. Why was it nixed?

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Old 10-02-2013, 07:40 PM   #558
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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Wow people are still listening to Miller? How about taking Singer's word for for it, "I've not spoken to Mark at all. I don't know what his role is" 3/11/13

Now almost 7 months later he's back at it...SMH

So if the script that Miller read and spoke so highly about in January was so great. Why was it nixed?
Trust me I didn't want to quote him, However Fox named him their creative consultant over their comic book movies.

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Old 10-02-2013, 07:40 PM   #559
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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1) You are not a lawyer so stop trying to pretend to be one.
2) Millar has said that the movie universe will show each other...just not the first Fantastic Four movie and DOFP. That's what his tweet said.
3) If Disney showed up in court and tried to say that putting more than one superhero in a movie would diminish the value...the judge would laugh at them and then go watch Avengers.
Since you have so much insight into both Disney's potential legal strategy and a hypothetical judge's reaction, I will defer to your extensive legal know how. But unless the two separate contracts specifically mentioned crossovers, Disney may have a case.

Consultant Mark Millar, who had difficulty arranging a meeting with Brian Singer, tweeted that "There is NO crossover planned". If he's your expert on the matter, there you go.

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Old 10-02-2013, 08:17 PM   #560
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

Millar might have simply thought doing a crossover wouldn't be an issue, and was advised by the suits soon after that it would?

I don't know...Would a studio buying the film rights for a novel from one author, then they bought the film rights from a different book by that same author, automatically entitle them to do a crossover between the books characters later on? Seems unlikely to me.

But none of us know one way or another what these deals fully involve. Both parties have consistently kept the full details a guarded secret.

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Old 10-02-2013, 08:35 PM   #561
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

When you phrase it like that Wobbly is doesn't seem likely. They exist in the same comic universe but the movie rights might very well indeed be as seperate properties with no connection.

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Old 10-02-2013, 08:38 PM   #562
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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Agreed that all studios have bad, average, good and great movies.

Disagreed that marvel is without sin.
Ok, I said Marvel have been consistently good in the quality of their movies, which I would concede is a subjective matter (I should have put 'for me they have been consistently good in quality').

You may think otherwise and that's fine, disagree with that and tell us what Marvel films you think were not good in quality.

But I never said that they were 'without sin'. Those are your words, not mine.

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Old 10-02-2013, 08:52 PM   #563
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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When you phrase it like that Wobbly is doesn't seem likely. They exist in the same comic universe but the movie rights might very well indeed be as seperate properties with no connection.
That's precisely what Millar says.

Quote:
I keep seeing 'news' that X-Men & FF movies are crossing over. No, they're not. They exist in same universe but movies stand alone.

Note to web journos: FF & X-Men are NOT crossing over. Existing in shared universe does NOT mean a crossover movie, excitable ones...

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Old 10-02-2013, 09:02 PM   #564
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

So they can exist in the same universe but are not crossoving over... Yet, at least.

That clears that up.

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Old 10-02-2013, 09:05 PM   #565
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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oh yeah well....your avy sucks
i do strive to please you

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Old 10-02-2013, 09:11 PM   #566
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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That's precisely what Millar says.
Hmmm...Methinks the suits had a word with him after he said this:

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"Without question I think you have to see some of these guys showing up in each other's movies" when it comes to possible X-Men cameos in the Fantastic Four release.
So...a 'shared universe'...where they don't interact?

May as well say James Bond exists in the same world as Jack Ryan then. Nothing directly contradicts the notion, but its a 'shared universe' in name only until you actually see them together.

I suppose they can have some obvious references to each other, ie: the Baxter building appearing in an X-Film wouldn't seem out of bounds, but it looks like that's the limit going by that later quote from Millar.

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Old 10-02-2013, 09:11 PM   #567
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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Originally Posted by CyclopsWasRight View Post
The crossover won't be limited to crossover storylines that occured in the comics.

It'll be something that fits with the existing movie-verse.



I didn't post anything about the screenwriter, if Fox is better, or the movie being on track.
... so it will be boring? nice.

the X-men have absolutely no use for the FF... and will appear as if they're a crutch for the F4 to lean on... let them do their own thing

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Old 10-02-2013, 11:22 PM   #568
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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So what if Simon Kinberg was an unnamed writer for the first FF movie? He also helped co-produce/write First Class, was the final writer for the first Sherlock Holmes and is co-writing DOFP as well.

Just because you helped on one or twp mediocre movies doesn't make you a terrible writer. Some people here, I tell ya.
Let me remind you that the latest film (that was released in theaters) that Simon Kinberg was attached to as a writer got a Rotten Tomatoes rating of less than 30%, that film was "This is War".

Also, Simon Kinberg was responsible for how Emma Frost was easily defeated in First Class and Sherlock Holmes is not even a great film to begin with.

He just doesn't have a good track record as a writer.

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Old 10-03-2013, 03:06 AM   #569
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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this was the point I was trying to convey. The people who know when the deadline is don't seem to be concerned since they just brought a new screenwriter to overhaul the script. we assume 2014 based on other properties but every property contract is a different entity....which is why the rights to Namor are at Universal and they haven't put one camera next to the ocean.
No, that's not what it means. They've done this all the time in the past. If you actually read this thread while we were talking about it then you would know the history of this. They add new producers and new writers every couple months, the project doesn't get off the ground, and they need an extension on the rights. And this isn't just for FF, it happened with multiple Marvel movies back in the day. And it just happened for Daredevil last year. They tried to throw screenwriters at it last minute and it didn't work out.

This is a repeat of the 90's/early 2000's all over again, except this time Fox isn't getting any help or support from Marvel. And we're saying it's 7 years not only because of what happened with Daredevil, but because:

1. There are reports dating back to 1998/1999 of Fox getting a 2 year extension on the rights to continue producing the movie, because they were reaching their deadline for the rights to expire. Fox received the rights to FF about around 92/93, if the rights were close to expiring around 98/99 that's a 6-7 year window they have to produce the films. Just like Daredevil.

2. It's clear they're trying to push this into production NOW because the rights are reverting soon. They announced this reboot all the way back in 2009. You think it's a coincidence that they're just now trying to seriously push it out? No, they're running out of time, and Fox has notoriously waited till the last minute to get these films going because they're reluctant to do so. See the first FF movie and the recent botched Daredevil reboot attempt.

But again, if you actually paid attention to us while we were talking about all this you would know already.

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Old 10-03-2013, 03:34 AM   #570
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

And if you're trying to say they feel they can still make the March 6 release date which is shown by them hiring Kinberg, that's also a part of my point, we're past the point of no return on this film being good. If it gets off the ground, it's going to be rushed and cheap.

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Old 10-03-2013, 07:50 AM   #571
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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It's not about being against that, it's about supporting the Fantastic Four reboot, no matter who makes it.
Well I'm certainly for the reboot - but I'm for it succeeding. If there's any chance or hope that the rights might revert (hence this thread) then I believe that gives them their best chance.

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I'd just like to retool your post to show you a different perspective...

This is Fox making films about Marvel characters. If you're a fan of said Marvel characters, why would you not want them to succeed? And why would you not want the FF in the same universe as X-Men?? Think of the possibilities! Why would you be against that??

Thats the perspective of those who don't hate Fox. Same perspective as yours really, just this is where the franchise actually is.
In reply to your retooled statement, yes again, I do want them to succeed. We are in agreement. Where we diverge is that I don't believe they will at Fox. Fox has had Marvel's premier X-Men franchise for well over a decade. They've made a few decent flicks during that time but do you honestly feel they have made movies about Marvel characters or their own version of it? I understand that the films are different and you can't do everything exactly the same as the comics but they should capture the essence of the characters. Do you really feel like you've seen the real Cyclops? Or Rogue? Or Angel? Or Deadpool? Or Storm? Or Gambit? Or Juggernaut? Or Kitty Pryde? Outside of the X-Men franchise, don't even get me started on Reed or Dr. Doom or Galactus.

However, when I watch the Marvel Studios films they sure as heck seem like the comic characters they are representing. That's the difference maker to me.

Further, what are these possibilities you are talking about? I think back on classic Marvel stories I grew up with and I can think of way more stories where the FF's characters interact with the characters that are part of the MCU vs. the X-Men. But to clarify - am I against the FF and the X-Men being part of the same universe? Absolutely not! Ideally I'd like to see all of the Marvel characters part of the same cinematic universe. But I know that's just not realistic. The closest to Marvel comic movie Nirvana I can hope for is that this troubled production will in fact return the FF to the fold and then we can get the film the FF franchise fans deserve while X-Men and Spidey can exist easily in their own separate vast universes.

And Mr. Dent has made some very good points as to why this production is in trouble. If Fox blows this for the third time, then let's just start writing the FF obituary now. The franchise will be dead, dead, DEAD. And then I will really hate Fox.

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Old 10-03-2013, 09:23 AM   #572
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

If this film fails FOX won't be able to hold on to the rights for long, if that happens i doubt Marvel would release the new reboot in less than 10 years after the previous atempt, so i wouldn't write the FF obituary so soon.

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Old 10-03-2013, 09:31 AM   #573
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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If this film fails FOX won't be able to hold on to the rights for long, if that happens i doubt Marvel would release the new reboot in less than 10 years after the previous atempt, so i wouldn't write the FF obituary so soon.

Unlike Sony and Universal, FOX has a history of hanging onto Marvel character rights well after their usefulness to the studio has ceased (ie Daredevil). So if FOX manages to crap out an FF-type film before the deadline, it could be well into the next decade before the rights revert. Those of us looking forward to an MCU version of the First Family have to keep hoping that the missteps with the reboot continue.

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Old 10-03-2013, 10:44 AM   #574
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

So if Fox got the deal extended back in 98/99 for two years, what about the years in between 2001 to 2004? The thing wasn't in production until 2004. They just magically got 10 years from 94 to 04? Frankly, I don't think they are anywhere near the deadline. I think it could easily be late 2015 or 2016.

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Old 10-03-2013, 11:31 AM   #575
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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So if Fox got the deal extended back in 98/99 for two years, what about the years in between 2001 to 2004? The thing wasn't in production until 2004. They just magically got 10 years from 94 to 04? Frankly, I don't think they are anywhere near the deadline. I think it could easily be late 2015 or 2016.
M might have a point here.. Hers my logic on why

Daredevil was released in 03. Elekra was released in 05. It was reported that while Marvel rights to DD reverted that Elektra had not. So that would mean that those characters were either sold separately or they had the rights to the characters and any character they use even relating to the same universe has to used in perpetuity in 10 not 7 years.

So it may be in fact it may be that they have to movie out in perpetuity every 10 years and not 7 as we first thought. So they may have to put a movie out buy 2017 not 2015 to retain the rights..

So that may give major wiggle room to either produce this film or make a deal by holding out till the end..

I dunno..


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