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Old 09-03-2013, 08:32 AM   #51
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

lol spidey is a solo hero

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Old 09-03-2013, 09:50 AM   #52
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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Ridiculous he is praying for a movie to fail. Even if you wanted the rights back you should never pray for a movie to fail, that is the height of ignorance.
Says the guy trolling a thread he clearly has no real interest in other than to pick a fight.

There's no real consensus saying that all or even most people wanting F4 to revert back to a Marvel are some type of petty MCU fanboys. So that argument stops there with me.

I don't think anyone here wants a Studio that employs thousands to fail per say but in the best interest of this franchise, it would be nice if it reverted back this decade.

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Old 09-03-2013, 10:11 AM   #53
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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Says the guy trolling a thread he clearly has no real interest in other than to pick a fight.

There's no real consensus saying that all or even most people wanting F4 to revert back to a Marvel are some type of petty MCU fanboys. So that argument stops there with me.

I don't think anyone here wants a Studio that employs thousands to fail per say but in the best interest of this franchise, it would be nice if it reverted back this decade.
I'm not trolling just speaking the truth but to people who do not like the truth they call people who tell the truth a troll. Look back at the previous thread, people went out and said they want the movie to fail. It's there in black text.

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Old 09-03-2013, 10:38 AM   #54
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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I'm not trolling just speaking the truth but to people who do not like the truth they call people who tell the truth a troll. Look back at the previous thread, people went out and said they want the movie to fail. It's there in black text.
Then why not go hound those people instead of antagonizing everyone else?

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Old 09-03-2013, 10:57 AM   #55
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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I'm not trolling just speaking the truth but to people who do not like the truth they call people who tell the truth a troll. Look back at the previous thread, people went out and said they want the movie to fail. It's there in black text.
You can't speak the truth if you have no facts.. THIS TREAD IS ABOUT HOPE. We don't even have facts that they will revert but we do have history (Daredevils rights) and it being a high risk movie to turn a profit (as evidence in the downward spiral BO of the X franchise after X-M TLS and XMO:W)

Thats all we got and thats all we need to KEEP HOPE ALIVE!! Yet your so called truth comes with nothing. So I'd say your trolling because your truth is nothing but conjecture at best

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Old 09-03-2013, 10:59 AM   #56
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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Then why not go hound those people instead of antagonizing everyone else?
There is a fine line, there are some who come off as wanting to movie to fail and others who would just simply prefer the rights to revert.

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Old 09-03-2013, 11:05 AM   #57
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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You can't speak the truth if you have no facts.. THIS TREAD IS ABOUT HOPE. We don't even have facts that they will revert but we do have history (Daredevils rights) and it being a high risk movie to turn a profit (as evidence in the downward spiral BO of the X franchise after X-M TLS and XMO:W)

Thats all we got and thats all we need to KEEP HOPE ALIVE!! Yet your so called truth comes with nothing. So I'd say your trolling because your truth is nothing but conjecture at best
The truth I was talking about is that it is wrong for a movie to fail and that story and character is more important than a shared universe.

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Old 09-03-2013, 11:05 AM   #58
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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There is a fine line, there are some who come off as wanting to movie to fail and others who would just simply prefer the rights to revert.
They prefer the rights to revert because the movie WILL FAIL outside of the MCU and it being part of/in the same universe as the X-Verse. Most really don't want the movie to fail but know it will if Fox stays the course

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Old 09-03-2013, 11:06 AM   #59
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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They prefer the rights to revert because the movie WILL FAIL outside of the MCU and it being part of/in the same universe as the X-Verse. Most really don't want the movie to fail but know it will if Fox stays the course
Bulls***. The original FF films could have been successful without a shared universe.

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Old 09-03-2013, 11:08 AM   #60
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

But they weren't.

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Old 09-03-2013, 11:17 AM   #61
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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Bulls***. The original FF films could have been successful without a shared universe.
Operative word is "Could Have Been" Just as X-Men TLS and XMO:W could have to.. but just like the FF they were BAD FILMS. The difference is that Fox pressed on and dealt through the risks and future BO losses and are ready to hopefully finally rake a profit with DOFP.. Why the risk with FF?? They only seem to have exclusive rights with the FF,SS, Galactus, and Doom. Fox with the X-Men (Mutants) have a universe that can produce endless spinoffs. Fox already know where the real money is and thats why the X-Verse is still alive. They fumbled and lost with the FF.

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Old 09-03-2013, 11:37 AM   #62
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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That's not a likely scenario. Fox is biding time, looking to see how GotG does at the box office. Then Ant-Man. As long as they can find the proper wording in the contracts, or go to court and appeal to buy time, then they can drag this out into late 2014 or perhaps 2015. I am not saying Fox has a ton of leverage here, but more than likely they are looking for a settlement. If Marvel properties continue to bank, then Fox is under even greater pressure to hold onto the rights and make a good film. But Fox knows they have something Marvel desperately wants. The Holy Grail is probably Spidey, then FF no doubt (with X-Men being unrealistic). Unless the DC Universe also becomes available one day...
Eh.... Its literally looking more and more likely this film won't happen from FOX every day

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Old 09-03-2013, 12:28 PM   #63
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

Duplicate post

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Old 09-03-2013, 12:34 PM   #64
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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That's not a likely scenario. Fox is biding time, looking to see how GotG does at the box office. Then Ant-Man. As long as they can find the proper wording in the contracts, or go to court and appeal to buy time, then they can drag this out into late 2014 or perhaps 2015. I am not saying Fox has a ton of leverage here, but more than likely they are looking for a settlement. If Marvel properties continue to bank, then Fox is under even greater pressure to hold onto the rights and make a good film. But Fox knows they have something Marvel desperately wants. The Holy Grail is probably Spidey, then FF no doubt (with X-Men being unrealistic). Unless the DC Universe also becomes available one day...
I think a settlement is exactly where we are headed, something that both FOX and Marvel can hold up to investors as a victory. The reboot is likely too risky for FOX to put into production, and would take valuable resources away from their proposed expansion of the X-Men related films. But heads will roll at NewsCorp if FOX releases the rights without compensation and Marvel manages to turn the First Family into another "Iron Man" level blockbuster.

I can see a settlement along the lines of Marvel's deal with Sony, where Disney buys out both FOX's ownership % in X-Men movie merchandise tie-ins along with the FF film rights. Disney touts the return of the FF, with Comicon crowds going crazy when Feige points to a screen touting "Future Films" written in the original Kirby FF script. FOX can point to a sizeable financial payment that can go into strengthening the X-Men films, as well as an agreement from Marvel to release X-Men movie merchandise in support of FOX's upcoming releases. There's plenty of room for a "win-win" here, and I am hoping it will come to fruition.

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Old 09-03-2013, 12:36 PM   #65
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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Eh.... Its literally looking more and more likely this film won't happen from FOX every day
Yeah, I've said it before, but I think it bears repeating - No matter what the contract says, Fox can't string this out for another year or more. Josh Trank is in demand and if Fox doesn't give him work soon, he'll go to work for someone else.

Even if Fox is willing to pay Trank to sit around and do nothing (unlikely considering how tight Fox is with money), Trank isn't going to wait much longer before getting himself out there. He had one decent film, but that's not enough to make a career, and I'm sure he's anxious to show the world what else he can do.

Of course if they lose Trank, they could always hire a different director, but that could mean re-tooling everything and jeopardizing their ability to meet the release date and any Marvel deadlines.

We're already getting lots of news from the new Avengers and Batman/Superman films and those have later release dates than FF.

I expect we'll hear something soon, but I think it's close to 50/50 right now if that news will be the start of production or scrapping of the project.

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Old 09-03-2013, 12:46 PM   #66
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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Operative word is "Could Have Been" Just as X-Men TLS and XMO:W could have to.. but just like the FF they were BAD FILMS. The difference is that Fox pressed on and dealt through the risks and future BO losses and are ready to hopefully finally rake a profit with DOFP.. Why the risk with FF?? They only seem to have exclusive rights with the FF,SS, Galactus, and Doom. Fox with the X-Men (Mutants) have a universe that can produce endless spinoffs. Fox already know where the real money is and thats why the X-Verse is still alive. They fumbled and lost with the FF.
They just were not good movies. You don't need a shared universe to have a good movie and it does not make it automatically better. TDK is considered the best CBM of all time and it wasn't in a shared universe.

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Old 09-03-2013, 01:07 PM   #67
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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They just were not good movies. You don't need a shared universe to have a good movie and it does not make it automatically better. TDK is considered the best CBM of all time and it wasn't in a shared universe.
So you're really comparing the iconic staple draw of Batman to the FF? Bat-Man is and has always been bigger than the actor so whether it be Burton, Shumacher, or Nolan they can screw it up and rebuild it.. Don't know why you're tying the FF in that category? But I digress, It's not as much of a question of if the FF can be successful in or out of a shared universe as is after 2 bad movies the FF would benefit more being part of the MCU because of the Marvel/Disney reputation vs (the scene of the crimes) at Fox..

Edit: In addition to not really being profitable to Fox either vs the X-verse. It to me, looks that they're just holding on and watching what Marvel is gonna do. It's clear at this point that Marvel intends to move on without them and daring Fox to lose money to put out the movie and keep the rights.. Fox financially would be wise not to take that dare and let the rights revert


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Old 09-03-2013, 01:11 PM   #68
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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So you're really comparing the iconic staple draw of Batman to the FF? Bat-Man is and has always been bigger than the actor so whether it be Burton, Shumacher, or Nolan they can screw it up and rebuild it.. Don't know why you're tying the FF in that category? But I digress, It's not as much of a question of if the FF can be successful in or out of a shared universe as is after 2 bad movies the FF would benefit more being part of the MCU because of the Marvel/Disney reputation vs (the scene of the crimes) at Fox..
I agree that their potential can be maximised at the MCU but it is simply not true in saying the F4 can't stand on their own. You could easily have three films without having to use a character outside of the contract.

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Old 09-03-2013, 01:25 PM   #69
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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I agree that their potential can be maximised at the MCU but it is simply not true in saying the F4 can't stand on their own. You could easily have three films without having to use a character outside of the contract.
Who?? They did SS and Galactus already in the first two (at least the Spider-Man reboot used a different villain then the previous Raimi films) and everybody outside of them Marvel could potentially beat them to the punch. Which I really wonder what the end result of the Quicksilver issue will be because though DOFP may introduce him first A:AOU will use him best and nail his use to the MCU. Thats a experiment that will determine how these studios do business as the GA will compare the two...

Still doesn't reverse the financial risk vs reward in going forward with production

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Old 09-03-2013, 01:58 PM   #70
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

I agree FF can be successful without the larger Marvel Universe...if anything they make up quite a big part of that larger universe. The MCU would benefit more from having FF than the other way around. That said, I don't think Fox can do a proper FF movie anyway. I bet they're going to try and make it edgy somehow instead of a fun family film...which they already failed at. FF should be like Avengers in tone except with more of a Pixar-esque feel...which is why the Incredibles was so successful. Fox can't pull that off. Not to mention it deserves a $175m budget and Fox is probably going to cheap it out at $120-130m if not less.


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Old 09-03-2013, 02:44 PM   #71
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

The tittle of this thread is "KEEP HOPE ALIVE" not "Lets argue and bash people's hope"

At this point just ignore the people who negate the true purpose of this thread.

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Old 09-03-2013, 03:17 PM   #72
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I agree FF can be successful without the larger Marvel Universe...if anything they make up quite a big part of that larger universe. The MCU would benefit more from having FF than the other way around. That said, I don't think Fox can do a proper FF movie anyway. I bet they're going to try and make it edgy somehow instead of a fun family film...which they already failed at. FF should be like Avengers in tone except with more of a Pixar-esque feel...which is why the Incredibles was so successful. Fox can't pull that off. Not to mention it deserves a $175m budget and Fox is probably going to cheap it out at $120-130m if not less.
While I agree with most of what you're saying, I'm not sure I agree with the statement that the MCU needs the FF more than the other way around. At the very least I think both could benefit each other. Sure the MCU could tell bigger stories but at the same time the FF could become part of one of the hottest things going.

Call it hubris or whatever, but it seems very clear that Marvel Studios intends to bull rush forward with building their universe with whatever spare parts they have left even if it means leaving their marquee characters behind. And arguably they've been very successful at it. I'm not a huge Iron Man fan but I'm starting to wonder if he is becoming bigger than Spider-Man at this point. He's clearly bigger than Wolverine. At least to general audiences.

If anything I think the FF need the MCU more at this point. The initial novelty of seeing the Fantastic Four on the big screen is gone. That opportunity was squandered with two mediocre outings (thankfully not very many have seen the Roger Corman version). What is Fox going to do differently to draw audiences in bigger numbers than they did last time? Make Johnny Storm black? Make Reed Richards use Clearasil? How insipid are these ideas? People are getting tired of reboots. They want to see the story move forward. And as the Wolverine vs. Borigins box office shows - it's very hard to get an audience back once you lose them. Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice...

Having the FF part of the MCU on the other hand would be exciting. Seeing the Thing go against the Hulk or Reed Richards outsmart Tony Stark would be something to see. It would be a shot in the arm for a flailing franchise much like seeing the Hulk interact with the Avengers suddenly made him cool again. It would be something new.

And with the Guardians of the Galaxy on the way the timing is perfect. What better characters to bridge into other worlds than the spacefaring adventuring first family?

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Old 09-03-2013, 03:22 PM   #73
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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While I agree with most of what you're saying, I'm not sure I agree with the statement that the MCU needs the FF more than the other way around. At the very least I think both could benefit each other. Sure the MCU could tell bigger stories but at the same time the FF could become part of one of the hottest things going.

Call it hubris or whatever, but it seems very clear that Marvel Studios intends to bull rush forward with building their universe with whatever spare parts they have left even if it means leaving their marquee characters behind. And arguably they've been very successful at it. I'm not a huge Iron Man fan but I'm starting to wonder if he is becoming bigger than Spider-Man at this point. He's clearly bigger than Wolverine. At least to general audiences.

If anything I think the FF need the MCU more at this point. The initial novelty of seeing the Fantastic Four on the big screen is gone. That opportunity was squandered with two mediocre outings (thankfully not very many have seen the Roger Corman version). What is Fox going to do differently to draw audiences in bigger numbers than they did last time? Make Johnny Storm black? Make Reed Richards use Clearasil? How insipid are these ideas? People are getting tired of reboots. They want to see the story move forward. And as the Wolverine vs. Borigins box office shows - it's very hard to get an audience back once you lose them. Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice...

Having the FF part of the MCU on the other hand would be exciting. Seeing the Thing go against the Hulk or Reed Richards outsmart Tony Stark would be something to see. It would be a shot in the arm for a flailing franchise much like seeing the Hulk interact with the Avengers suddenly made him cool again. It would be something new.

And with the Guardians of the Galaxy on the way the timing is perfect. What better characters to bridge into other worlds than the spacefaring adventuring first family?
I wouldn't say Iron Man is bigger than the webhead at this point... At least I hope not . I think the situation will be like DC, we have two iconic heroes.

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Old 09-03-2013, 03:36 PM   #74
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

Off topic, but eventually people are going to want Spidey scaling things up, and the teen melodrama, no matter who they kill off, will wear off on audiences. They need to start expanding that universe. That doesn't mean Avengers level, but the threats have to be more signifcant. In can't be crazy scientist or criminal in a freak accident every movie. You don't want it to be Batman & Robin level, but eventually Spidey needs buddies. Black Cat is a Catwoman ripoff and won't work outside of maybe one well written story. Unless this Sinister Six buildup is so well executed and they come up with a believable story for Spidey to take down that team. I don't think he can do it alone. Hopefully they try to involve the SHIELD, or some other assistance for Spidey that incorporates MCU elements. Otherwise, I see a downward trend with Spidey movies, and I think 4 is the maximum they can drag out with Garfield, plus maybe a Venom spinoff and what not (which Spidey has to be in IMO).

FF can definitely get by without the MCU, but it will be extremely limited in what they will be able to do. I can't fathom how a producer can sell a FF reboot to their executives and promise them big time returns off a 150 million dollar investment. I think any reboot without MCU tie-ins will be lucky to do Captain America type numbers.


Last edited by Mr.M; 09-03-2013 at 03:39 PM.
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Old 09-03-2013, 05:06 PM   #75
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedBlueWonder View Post
I agree that their potential can be maximised at the MCU but it is simply not true in saying the F4 can't stand on their own. You could easily have three films without having to use a character outside of the contract.
well... 3 films is about as far as it all could push. FOX doesn't really have many of the characters that round out F4's most famous, best, or Iconic Stories... I mean really... they have

-Dr. Doom (who should be the magneto of their franchise and appear in every film imo)

-Mole Man (who's great for a first film, but he's not an interesting character, his Moloids and under-world creatures are cool though. Story wise he's always been a weak character though.

-Red Ghost (wont work on film) not in a post Rise of the Apes world.. it would be treading on far too similar territory imo

-Frightful Four (this is going to be pretty hard to pull off a solid team without Medusa, Sandman or Hydro Man imo... Trapster in general wont work on film.. and Wizard is still a bit iffy anyway.. They might go the way of re-doing the team completely and ignore comic accuracy with that one. I could see them using some of the U-foes (if Fox has them), and possibly that could be where Pupper Master could work, because he clearly wont work on his own.

-Puppet Master (see above)

-Annihilus (one of the few villains that'd work well on film)

-Blaastar (see above, but the 2 would have to be tied in together)

-Galactus (maybe they can build up a space epic, with the finale being galactus? Though i like a world/dimension/space trotting team rather than all films be focused into the same "world/genre"

-Super Skrull, i don't think he could carry a movie alone, skrull army maybe, but I could see them actually alter him into being a herald of galactus, or come into play during a film with Galactus as the villain, where he's vowed vengance on galactus and Surfer for destroying the Skrull home world... unfortunately no Kree/Skrull war from Fox with Fan4 trapped in the middle though.


that basically leaves us with Doom, Annihilus, Galactus for a solid trilogy imo, but without Atlantis and Namor, without Panther and Wakanda, without Inhumans, and the Kree... it begins limiting what all they can do outside of that trilogt imo

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