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Old 09-03-2013, 06:08 PM   #76
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

FF can do all it's supposed to do without the MCU. They aren't missing any rights they especially need to do the FF right on its own...although of course it would be nice to have those cross characters and alien species you will be seeing in GotG in FF, it's not something that's necessary or hurts the FF not to have.

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Old 09-03-2013, 06:10 PM   #77
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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I wouldn't say Iron Man is bigger than the webhead at this point... At least I hope not . I think the situation will be like DC, we have two iconic heroes.
unfortunately as much as people love spidey, he is being surpassed from what i understand in not only box-office intake, but in comic sales too..

but i blame that more on the fact they destroyed his marriage, killed peter parker off in 2 universes, and made Doc Ock spider-man

so there's really not much spidey to hype at the moment. Hopefully Amz Spider-Man 2 will change all that.

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Old 09-03-2013, 06:13 PM   #78
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

Would be cool if Marvel got both Namor and Fantastic Four rights back at around the same time and made their first FF movie about the team discovering Atlantis. Would deal with introducing Namor into the MCU without having to worry about risking his own film and sets up the FF as adventurers.

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Old 09-03-2013, 06:14 PM   #79
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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FF can do all it's supposed to do without the MCU. They aren't missing any rights they especially need to do the FF right on its own...although of course it would be nice to have those cross characters and alien species you will be seeing in GotG in FF, it's not something that's necessary or hurts the FF not to have.
They're missing story arch's though, some in which (especially Namor) imo is VERY important to the characters history... Much like how Crystal is a very important love interest for Johnny Storm, and how they can't use her either...

sure there's enough for the F4 to get by on... but alot of very great, and classic stories and relationships as well as dynamics that made the F4 even more enjoyable... FOX simply can't do.

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Old 09-03-2013, 06:17 PM   #80
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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unfortunately as much as people love spidey, he is being surpassed from what i understand in not only box-office intake, but in comic sales too..

but i blame that more on the fact they destroyed his marriage, killed peter parker off in 2 universes, and made Doc Ock spider-man

so there's really not much spidey to hype at the moment. Hopefully Amz Spider-Man 2 will change all that.
Not true. Iron Man comics never sale especially well. And Superior Spider-Man is Marvel's most consistently best selling ongoing.

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Old 09-03-2013, 06:17 PM   #81
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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Would be cool if Marvel got both Namor and Fantastic Four rights back at around the same time and made their first FF movie about the team discovering Atlantis. Would deal with introducing Namor into the MCU without having to worry about risking his own film and sets up the FF as adventurers.
I think it'd be great, I love the story in the comics, where they find out who Namor is... and he's basically a disheveled homeless man who's been lost for decades. It was a great way marvel brought them back to the marvel universe.

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Old 09-03-2013, 06:19 PM   #82
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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Not true. Iron Man comics never sale especially well. And Superior Spider-Man is Marvel's most consistently best selling ongoing.
not basing it on Spider-Man vs Iron Man (iron man alone never sells that well in book form, but Spider-Man vs Avengers sales... which Avengers is on top at the moment.

Add to that merchandising, and Avengers related stuff (especially Iron Man Toys) still have a larger market intake than Spidey at the moment.

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Old 09-03-2013, 06:22 PM   #83
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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They're missing story arch's though, some in which (especially Namor) imo is VERY important to the characters history... Much like how Crystal is a very important love interest for Johnny Storm, and how they can't use her either...

sure there's enough for the F4 to get by on... but alot of very great, and classic stories and relationships as well as dynamics that made the F4 even more enjoyable... FOX simply can't do.
Not even Marvel would straight up use storyarcs from the comics nor would they go out of their way to cameo a bunch of characters in the films from different properties either. You have a point with Namor, only because I think he's the type of character better introduced in the FF rather than the Avengers if you're not going to give him his own solo film, but they were never going to put the Inhumans for instance in a FF film because they're planning on making an Inhumans film. Crystal's relationship to Johnny is about as important as her relationship to Quicksilver and Ronan...i.e. something Marvel isn't going to use anytime soon.

There's far more than enough to get by on. They have everything they need on their own. If Marvel made a FF film I guarantee you they would be using the same things Fox would with the exception of a couple easter eggs or something to show it's in the MCU.

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Old 09-03-2013, 06:23 PM   #84
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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not basing it on Spider-Man vs Iron Man (iron man alone never sells that well in book form, but Spider-Man vs Avengers sales... which Avengers is on top at the moment.

Add to that merchandising, and Avengers related stuff (especially Iron Man Toys) still have a larger market intake than Spidey at the moment.
Superior Spider-Man outsells every Avengers book by a good margin, especially the one (Hickman's) with Iron Man in it.

In terms of merchandising there are no concrete figures on the internet to make that statement with. but i'm fairly certain Spider-Man is still their #1 top selling character.

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Old 09-03-2013, 06:31 PM   #85
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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Not even Marvel would straight up use storyarcs from the comics nor would they go out of their way to cameo a bunch of characters in the films from different properties either. You have a point with Namor, only because I think he's the type of character better introduced in the FF rather than the Avengers if you're not going to give him his own solo film, but they were never going to put the Inhumans for instance in a FF film because they're planning on making an Inhumans film. Crystal's relationship to Johnny is about as important as her relationship to Quicksilver and Ronan...i.e. something Marvel isn't going to use anytime soon.

There's far more than enough to get by on. They have everything they need on their own. If Marvel made a FF film I guarantee you they would be using the same things Fox would with the exception of a couple easter eggs or something to show it's in the MCU.
... yet marvel has used SEVERAL storylines from the comics already, There's Elements of Demon in a Bottle, Armor Wars, much of Iron Monger is ripped from the comics, and Extremis is very heavily used in the Iron Man films... are they 100% exact storylines? No... but you can quite easily see the influence and what elements they used...

same goes for the Captain America, Thor, and even some aspects of Avengers.

Cap and Iron Man have however followed most closely to the books, and CA2WS looks like it's pretty much ripped from the books.


No one is saying DIRECT TRANSLATION. But Some elements and story aspects have been used in majority of comic films.

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Old 09-03-2013, 06:38 PM   #86
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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Superior Spider-Man outsells every Avengers book by a good margin, especially the one (Hickman's) with Iron Man in it.

In terms of merchandising there are no concrete figures on the internet to make that statement with. but i'm fairly certain Spider-Man is still their #1 top selling character.
outsells yes.. but it's quite obvious Superior is falling in sales..

Quote:
02/13 Superior #3 - 101,811 ( -13.8%)
02/13 Superior #4 - 95,892 ( -5.8%)
03/13 Superior #5 - 94,224 ( -1.7%)
03/13 Superior #6 - 86,614 ( -8.1%)
03/13 S. S-M #6AU - 85,807 ( -0.9%)
04/13 Superior #7 - 87,945 ( +2.5%)
04/13 Superior #8 - 85,671 ( -2.6%)
05/13 Superior #9 - 93,656 ( +9.3%)
05/13 Superior #10 - 85,346 ( -8.9%)
06/13 Superior #11 - 84,219 ( -1.3%)
06/13 Superior #12 - 82,338 ( -2.2%)
it's slowly falling into the low 80,000's at a decently steady rate


where avengers seems to have a less fast decline
Quote:
02/13 Avengers v5 #5 - 82,452 ( -0.8%)
02/13 Avengers v5 #6 - 84,868 ( +2.9%)
03/13 Avengers v5 #7 - 78,278 ( -7.8%)
03/13 Avengers v5 #8 - 82,691 ( +5.6%)
04/13 Avengers v5 #9 - 77,780 ( -5.9%)
04/13 Avengers v5 #10 - 78,905 ( +1.4%)
05/13 Avengers v5 #11 - 70,687 ( -10.4%)
05/13 Avengers v5 #12 - 74,978 ( +6.1%)
06/13 Avengers v5 #13 - 68,624 ( -8.5%)
06/13 Avengers v5 #14 - 74,846 ( +9.1%)
and regardless... comic sales really don't mean much any way... in the grand scheme of things in a post avengers world... Avengers grew a fanbase, where spidey actually lost some of his. I know quite a few people who've been long time fans and dropped the book.

couple all that info with merchandising and Avengers popularity is growing, where spideys is not.


but again, i couple that with the fact much more is happening with the Avengers in the grand scheme of things than what's happening to spidey.

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Old 09-03-2013, 06:42 PM   #87
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

Both Iron Man and Spidey are popular. Though Slodey does it without Avengers help.

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Old 09-03-2013, 06:49 PM   #88
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Both Iron Man and Spidey are popular. Though Slodey does it without Avengers help.
this is true, but Fantastic Four on the other hand... arn't even cutting it as a team.. so... there is that.

they need less hurdles and more help... not more obstacles to climb.

Quote:
11/12 Fantastic Four v5 #1 - 114,532 (+152.7%)
12/12 Fantastic Four v5 #2 - 58,421 ( -49.0%)
01/13 Fantastic Four v5 #3 - 50,555 ( -13.5%)
02/13 Fantastic Four v5 #4 - 44,999 ( -11.0%)
03/13 Fantastic Four v5 #5 - 42,590 ( -5.4%)
03/13 Fantastic Four #5AU - 45,756 ( +7.4%)
04/13 Fantastic Four v5 #6 - 41,291 ( -4.8%)
04/13 Fantastic Four v5 #7 - 39,314 ( -4.8%)
05/13 Fantastic Four v5 #8 - 37,309 ( -5.1%)
06/13 Fantastic Four v5 #9 - 37,071
Quote:
06/11 FF #5 - 58,925
=====
06/12 FF #19 - 34,260 ( -0.9%)
07/12 FF #20 - 31,652 ( -7.6%)
08/12 FF #21 - 30,220 ( -4.5%)
09/12 FF #22 - 29,847 ( -1.2%)
10/12 FF #23 - 30,844 ( +3.3%)
11/12 FF v2 #1 - 80,701 (+161.6%)
12/12 FF v2 #2 - 46,096 ( -42.9%)
01/13 FF v2 #3 - 41,108 ( -10.8%)
02/13 FF v2 #4 - 35,815 ( -12.9%)
03/13 FF v2 #5 - 34,601 ( -3.4%)
04/13 FF v2 #6 - 32,937 ( -4.8%)
05/13 FF v2 #7 - 30,960 ( -6.0%)
06/13 FF v2 #8 - 30,061 ( -2.9%)
their books is in constant free-fall


these figures also completely irritate the hell out of me, because they show quite well that Marvel's ploy to bring books back to #1, makes a one time great sale.. that depletes pretty quickly, and takes the numbers back to where they were before the recount anyway... marvel's become a joke in the book department for me these days... the marketing ploys are ridiculous.

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Old 09-03-2013, 07:46 PM   #89
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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Yeah, I've said it before, but I think it bears repeating - No matter what the contract says, Fox can't string this out for another year or more. Josh Trank is in demand and if Fox doesn't give him work soon, he'll go to work for someone else.

Even if Fox is willing to pay Trank to sit around and do nothing (unlikely considering how tight Fox is with money), Trank isn't going to wait much longer before getting himself out there. He had one decent film, but that's not enough to make a career, and I'm sure he's anxious to show the world what else he can do.

Of course if they lose Trank, they could always hire a different director, but that could mean re-tooling everything and jeopardizing their ability to meet the release date and any Marvel deadlines.

We're already getting lots of news from the new Avengers and Batman/Superman films and those have later release dates than FF.

I expect we'll hear something soon, but I think it's close to 50/50 right now if that news will be the start of production or scrapping of the project.
You know, is there any evidence that there's anything to be retooled? Literally the only solid piece of data so far is Trank as director, so if they lost him. . . would they actually lose anything else?

Other than time and credibility, anyway.

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Old 09-03-2013, 07:48 PM   #90
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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... yet marvel has used SEVERAL storylines from the comics already, There's Elements of Demon in a Bottle, Armor Wars, much of Iron Monger is ripped from the comics, and Extremis is very heavily used in the Iron Man films... are they 100% exact storylines? No... but you can quite easily see the influence and what elements they used...

same goes for the Captain America, Thor, and even some aspects of Avengers.

Cap and Iron Man have however followed most closely to the books, and CA2WS looks like it's pretty much ripped from the books.


No one is saying DIRECT TRANSLATION. But Some elements and story aspects have been used in majority of comic films.
Then you're really just disproving your own point. Using story elements from arcs WITHIN THEIR OWN FRANCHISE is completely different from shoving entirely different franchises into a film. Black Panther and the Inhumans have developed into far different and bigger things than they were when they were first introduced in FF comics. It doesn't make sense to have them in a FF film when Black Panther is an Avenger and is better served being introduced there now and the Inhumans are getting their own movie before Marvel would ever be able to make an FF film, if they ever do at all. Black Panther and the Inhumans are relatively small parts of the FF lore and the FF book simply served as a vehicle to introduce the characters...which is why their rights are separate.

And just in case you try and bring this up, for the record, the Silver Surfer's rights were initially separate from the FF as well, so bringing him up as an example of a big character still tied to the FF is useless.

With just Doom, Galactus, Silver Surfer, the Skrulls, the Negative Zone, and Annihilus they have enough to make a very long lasting FF franchise, and those are the elements Marvel would use in a FF movie as well. They wouldn't be bringing in an arc about the Inhumans unless it were a crossover movie anyway nor would they put Black Panther in it because he's an Avenger. I'm sure they'd stick to cosmic adventure for the most part with FF if they're not outright dealing with Doom, and cosmic for the FF is Skrulls, it's Galactus and his Heralds, and it's Annihilus and the Negative Zone.

etc etc.


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outsells yes.. but it's quite obvious Superior is falling in sales..



it's slowly falling into the low 80,000's at a decently steady rate


where avengers seems to have a less fast decline


and regardless... comic sales really don't mean much any way... in the grand scheme of things in a post avengers world... Avengers grew a fanbase, where spidey actually lost some of his. I know quite a few people who've been long time fans and dropped the book.

couple all that info with merchandising and Avengers popularity is growing, where spideys is not.


but again, i couple that with the fact much more is happening with the Avengers in the grand scheme of things than what's happening to spidey.
All that did was prove my point. :/

Avengers sales were 1: Lower to begin with 2: evened out quicker because they were lower to begin with 3: were clearly decreasing as well before the Infinity prelude slightly boosted it and 4: are still lower than Superior Spider-Man's anyway.

Unless you're a Scott Snyder comic or have Justice League in the title, higher selling comics (100-80k) ALWAYS begin to decrease as months go on after the initial first issue and the fact Superior Spider-Man is still as consistently high as it is is impressive and speaks to how well the book is being received by comic readers.

Either way, all this points to is your statement about how Iron Man (which you changed to Avengers) comic selling more than Spider-Man comic sales right now being not true...which is the only reason we're talking about it, because you brought it up, so it's too late to brush it under the rug now saying "they don't matter". Avengers has never been a big comic book seller per se', and neither has Iron Man, and it's clear that the movies aren't changing that. Despite the people you personally know who dropped the book, far more people picked it up and the event has raised Spider-Man's profile in comics again. This is the best it's been selling in years. This time last year Amazing Spider-Man was selling in the 50k's. Simply put, comic sales don't correlate to the movies unless it's something like Guardians of the Galaxy and Thanos Rising, for completely unknown quantities to casual/"mainstream" comic book readers.

And again, you have no concrete numbers or facts to back up your merchandising statement at all. Marvel makes these deals in advance and get the money straight up from toy and memorabilia makers. Then Marvel's merchandising numbers are reported in bulk, not breaking down which franchise or character is selling more than the other. Just based off of what I know myself about how all this works, I would say Spider-Man and the Avengers bring in about the same amount of money to Marvel because they would both go for max deals. In terms of what actually sales more, that doesn't matter to Marvel or Disney because they don't see a dime of that. And again, just going off of what I know, I would say the Avengers would be lucky to equal Spider-Man right now because it has a far longer history and is far more established, and just a year of popularity is not going to have the Avengers, or Iron Man as a singular character which is what we were talking about in the first place, leap frog Spider-Man in merchandising sales.


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Old 09-03-2013, 08:10 PM   #91
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Then you're really just disproving your own point. Using story elements from arcs WITHIN THEIR OWN FRANCHISE is completely different from shoving entirely different franchises into a film. Black Panther and the Inhumans have developed into far different and bigger things than they were when they were first introduced in FF comics. It doesn't make sense to have them in a FF film when Black Panther is an Avenger and is better served being introduced there now and the Inhumans are getting their own movie before Marvel would ever be able to make an FF film, if they ever do at all. Black Panther and the Inhumans are relatively small parts of the FF lore and the FF book simply served as a vehicle to introduce the characters...which is why their rights are separate.
?????????? you do realize Black Panther, and the Inhumans, and the return of Namor alllll happened within the Fantastic Four Don't you? The Inhumans and Black Panther merely became their own franchises later (much like Elektra did with daredevil). Elektra much like the 3 i just mentioned are very heavily tied into the fantastic four. I'm pretty sure you're on a different page, because nothing i've said is disproving any point i'm trying to make.

Quote:
And just in case you try and bring this up, for the record, the Silver Surfer's rights were initially separate from the FF as well, so bringing him up as an example of a big character still tied to the FF is useless.
you are correct, they were separate... however they are not now.

Quote:
With just Doom, Galactus, Silver Surfer, the Skrulls, the Negative Zone, and Annihilus they have enough to make a very long lasting FF franchise, and those are the elements Marvel would use in a FF movie as well. They wouldn't be bringing in an arc about the Inhumans unless it were a crossover movie anyway nor would they put Black Panther in it because he's an Avenger. I'm sure they'd stick to cosmic adventure for the most part with FF if they're not outright dealing with Doom, and cosmic for the FF is Skrulls, it's Galactus and his Heralds, and it's Annihilus and the Negative Zone.
wrong, you have enough to make 3 (maybe for films) you can't keep making films without bringing in any new and compelling villains... you can always bring the old ones back, but you usually have to bring others into the frey as well.




as for Spider-Man vs Iron Man... the point matters not. They have squat to do with the Fantastic Four or this thread. I even tried to bring it back home with the fact their comic is doing pretty poorly in terms of the Avengers and Spidey... you're showing no great evidence either to be quite frank. But moving on



Id much rather see Fantastic Four travel to Atlantis and fight Namor, Fight the Frightful Four (with medusa), and see the 4 interact with Panther and Panther, Namor, and Doom interact with each other.. then see Moleman, or hell... quite honestly see galactus and silver surfer return.

to me, you will never see a truely represented Fantastic Four without at least some of those characters popping up. Plain and simple. Under FOX's control the franchise feels heavily restricted.

your idea of what will satisfy you to make a definitive Fantastic Four franchise just must be much less than mine... or my concept of one. I prefer limitless potential... not limited.

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Old 09-03-2013, 08:54 PM   #92
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You know, is there any evidence that there's anything to be retooled? Literally the only solid piece of data so far is Trank as director, so if they lost him. . . would they actually lose anything else?

Other than time and credibility, anyway.
Sadly you may be right. A good director would want a say in the film he's about to make and isn't going to just accept all the pre-production work that has been done with Trank's vision in mind.

But Fox's idea of a good director seems to be one that will take whatever crap they're given.

Something like that almost certainly won't result in a good film, but it's entirely possible Fox would do that.

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Old 09-03-2013, 09:38 PM   #93
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Sadly you may be right. A good director would want a say in the film he's about to make and isn't going to just accept all the pre-production work that has been done with Trank's vision in mind.

But Fox's idea of a good director seems to be one that will take whatever crap they're given.

Something like that almost certainly won't result in a good film, but it's entirely possible Fox would do that.
As an example, imagine Joel Schumacher was the original director for Batman Begins, but he left and Christopher Nolan came onboard and had to work with Schumacher's Batmobile, Nipple suits, ridiculously designed Ra's al Ghul lair, Scarecrow that looked he was from the Wizard of Oz, etc. etc. etc.

Nolan's film would be unrecognizable from the classic we now know. A good director doesn't just come in on the first day of shooting and tell the crew where to place the cameras - he's involved in the look of the film from the first pre-production sketches.

And for a film like this, that pre-production work is critical and lengthy.

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Old 09-03-2013, 09:42 PM   #94
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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Originally Posted by Mr. Dent View Post
FF can do all it's supposed to do without the MCU. They aren't missing any rights they especially need to do the FF right on its own...although of course it would be nice to have those cross characters and alien species you will be seeing in GotG in FF, it's not something that's necessary or hurts the FF not to have.


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Originally Posted by spideyboy_1111 View Post
They're missing story arch's though, some in which (especially Namor) imo is VERY important to the characters history... Much like how Crystal is a very important love interest for Johnny Storm, and how they can't use her either...
Like how Marvel can't do Quicksilver and Scarlet witch as Mutants or the children of Magneto but are using them anyway?

Marvel are still doing it becuse hey share rights but they can't do it "right"

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Originally Posted by spideyboy_1111 View Post
sure there's enough for the F4 to get by on... but alot of very great, and classic stories and relationships as well as dynamics that made the F4 even more enjoyable... FOX simply can't do.
Neither can Marvel without Spider-Man, X-Men, fantastic four or Namor. They get by just fine.

Things don't need to be connected to work

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Originally Posted by spideyboy_1111 View Post
not basing it on Spider-Man vs Iron Man (iron man alone never sells that well in book form, but Spider-Man vs Avengers sales... which Avengers is on top at the moment.
So Iron Man isn't outselling Spider-Man.

Since you've decided Avengers vs Spider-Man shouldn't that include Scarlet spider and Venoms ongoings too?

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Originally Posted by Mr. Dent View Post
There's far more than enough to get by on. They have everything they need on their own. If Marvel made a FF film I guarantee you they would be using the same things Fox would with the exception of a couple easter eggs or something to show it's in the MCU.
QFT

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Originally Posted by RedBlueWonder View Post
Both Iron Man and Spidey are popular. Though Slodey does it without Avengers help.
Oh Snap

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Old 09-03-2013, 10:03 PM   #95
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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Originally Posted by droidwarrior View Post




Like how Marvel can't do Quicksilver and Scarlet witch as Mutants or the children of Magneto but are using them anyway?
yes actually. Exactly right. both studios are getting a neutered version of the characters.

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Neither can Marvel without Spider-Man, X-Men, fantastic four or Namor. They get by just fine.

Things don't need to be connected to work
Spider-man like the x-men in the grand scheme of things are pretty self contained. The multiverse trotting First Family are not.... They're easily the heart of the marvel universe and pretty deeply rooted in all corners of the marvel universe

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Since you've decided Avengers vs Spider-Man shouldn't that include Scarlet spider and Venoms ongoings too?
Lol only if you want to include all the multi avengers titles too? Lol

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Old 09-03-2013, 10:11 PM   #96
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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Originally Posted by Kelly View Post
If Fox makes the movie and this one fails, IMO, it will be 3 strikes and this franchise will be dead for good. Marvel/Disney will look for other family oriented superhero franchises that they already own to take the place of the F4. Can anyone take a guess?

Either Fox finally gets it right, which they can do....or they don't do it at all and the rights can then go back to Marvel for a restart, or it fails and we never see an F4 movie on the big screen again. So right now, if Fox does it, I want a fantastic movie, for the simple reason that I like going to good movies.

This "I hope it fails..." stuff is just silly, and if we see the movie going into production and we begin to see things happen, I hope you guys who are on the "I hope it fails..." bandwagon, move on, because it won't be much fun around here for you I'm afraid.
Exactly, if this reboot fails and it goes back to Marvel Studios, FF wouldn't be in Marvel Studios' top priorities just for the fact that the reboot failed.

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Old 09-03-2013, 10:25 PM   #97
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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Originally Posted by psylockolussus View Post
Exactly, if this reboot fails and it goes back to Marvel Studios, FF wouldn't be in Marvel Studios' top priorities just for the fact that the reboot failed.
Id argue that while it might not, it very well could. i imagine we will get a break from Iron Man, Thor, and Cap solos after their actors inevitably leave.. And Marvel will be looking for more characters and teams to balance the loss of those characters.... Fantastic Four would easily be their next biggest property to do this.... I highly doubt Dr. Strange and Ant-Man can do what the Fan 4 potentially could in that sense.

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Old 09-04-2013, 09:52 AM   #98
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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Originally Posted by Kelly View Post
If Fox makes the movie and this one fails, IMO, it will be 3 strikes and this franchise will be dead for good. Marvel/Disney will look for other family oriented superhero franchises that they already own to take the place of the F4. Can anyone take a guess?

Either Fox finally gets it right, which they can do....or they don't do it at all and the rights can then go back to Marvel for a restart, or it fails and we never see an F4 movie on the big screen again. So right now, if Fox does it, I want a fantastic movie, for the simple reason that I like going to good movies.

This "I hope it fails..." stuff is just silly, and if we see the movie going into production and we begin to see things happen, I hope you guys who are on the "I hope it fails..." bandwagon, move on, because it won't be much fun around here for you I'm afraid.
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Originally Posted by psylockolussus View Post
Exactly, if this reboot fails and it goes back to Marvel Studios, FF wouldn't be in Marvel Studios' top priorities just for the fact that the reboot failed.
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Originally Posted by spideyboy_1111 View Post
Id argue that while it might not, it very well could. i imagine we will get a break from Iron Man, Thor, and Cap solos after their actors inevitably leave.. And Marvel will be looking for more characters and teams to balance the loss of those characters.... Fantastic Four would easily be their next biggest property to do this.... I highly doubt Dr. Strange and Ant-Man can do what the Fan 4 potentially could in that sense.
As much as I'd like to believe the FF can survive another bad movie (because, let's face it, that's a very real possibility), I'm afraid Kelly may be right.

My big concern is that from a general film-goer's point of view the FF will just be those crappy characters from those 3 crappy movies..

The real value of the FF at this moment is the large fanbase that grew up with the real FF, but the more bad films we get, the more they are associated with those films and not the comics (I see many comments even on these forums that indicate many fans know them more from the films than the comics).

I also think that, while Marvel would probably rather do FF than Ant-Man or Dr. Strange at this moment and would probably push FF to the front of the line if they had the rights, that could all change in a couple years.

By the time a bad FF film has come and gone and Marvel gets the rights back, Marvel likely will have made some decent films with characters like Ant-Man, Dr. Strange, Black Panther etc. And while those characters might have less value now, that value curve will likely shift after we've had good movies for them and another bad movie for FF.

At that point, audiences will want to see the characters that have worked on screen - not the ones who didn't - regardless of how popular or well-known the original comics were.

I'm 48, I've been waiting for a decent FF film for roughly 42 years, and I honestly feel that if Fox makes another crappy film, I may never see a decent FF film in the 30 or so years I'll hopefully have left after that film.

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Old 09-04-2013, 10:14 AM   #99
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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Originally Posted by Willie Lumpkin View Post
As much as I'd like to believe the FF can survive another bad movie (because, let's face it, that's a very real possibility), I'm afraid Kelly may be right.

My big concern is that from a general film-goer's point of view the FF will just be those crappy characters from those 3 crappy movies..

The real value of the FF at this moment is the large fanbase that grew up with the real FF, but the more bad films we get, the more they are associated with those films and not the comics (I see many comments even on these forums that indicate many fans know them more from the films than the comics).

I also think that, while Marvel would probably rather do FF than Ant-Man or Dr. Strange at this moment and would probably push FF to the front of the line if they had the rights, that could all change in a couple years.

By the time a bad FF film has come and gone and Marvel gets the rights back, Marvel likely will have made some decent films with characters like Ant-Man, Dr. Strange, Black Panther etc. And while those characters might have less value now, that value curve will likely shift after we've had good movies for them and another bad movie for FF.

At that point, audiences will want to see the characters that have worked on screen - not the ones who didn't - regardless of how popular or well-known the original comics were.

I'm 48, I've been waiting for a decent FF film for roughly 42 years, and I honestly feel that if Fox makes another crappy film, I may never see a decent FF film in the 30 or so years I'll hopefully have left after that film.
all the more reason FOX shouldn't even attempt to make this film imo, though yes, i do feel your pain on that though. I just think if there's a slim chance FOX actually ends up making this film, and the chance it flops and then the chance (lots of what if's there) Marvel get's the F4 back... they're going to do all in their power to rejuvenate such a highly regarded property to them, regardless of the past flops... and attempt to do something well.. and like i said.. they may indeed have to piggy-back them off of another character or a team-up film before a solo, which wouldn't be terrible.

this is all talking "what if's" though... and if it's any consolation... you're still young. There's no written rule where you can't enjoy super heroes or movies when you're in your 50s, 60s, or 70s even.. My Mother is in her mid 50s and loves seeing these films, my grand father is in his 80s and enjoys the heck out of these films... you shouldn't feel like there's a deadline either. Your life isn't about over just because you're reaching "mid-life". Live life the way you want to live it, I'll probably still be collecting action figures in my 40s and 50s hah!

I'll probably be waiting till im 80 to see a far more comic accurate X-men film :/ but at least i still have hope for it!!!!

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Old 09-04-2013, 10:28 AM   #100
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Default Re: The "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) thread - Part 1

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Originally Posted by spideyboy_1111 View Post
Id argue that while it might not, it very well could. i imagine we will get a break from Iron Man, Thor, and Cap solos after their actors inevitably leave.. And Marvel will be looking for more characters and teams to balance the loss of those characters.... Fantastic Four would easily be their next biggest property to do this.... I highly doubt Dr. Strange and Ant-Man can do what the Fan 4 potentially could in that sense.
Then I don't understand what Marvel plans on doing after PIII. These characters aren't exactly bankable at the moment. You walk down the street and ask people who Black Panther, Dr. Strange, and Ant-Man are, they won't know who you are talking about. These are C-list Marvel heroes. Marvel may have the utmost confidence in their product, but bluster doesn't amount to much in this business.

So what becomes of PIV and this 2021 plan if these characters don't bank? Don't know. I'd like to see PIV become the Defenders phase, and we get Dr. Strange, Namor, and Hulk anchoring that phase. But it could easily be a FF phase and branch cosmic Marvel to Earth. Plus they still don't have Namor and SS. So I don't see where the ensemble movie is going to come from in PIV at the moment. 2021 is a LONG ways away, but we are already fast aproaching PIII, and I don't know what characters can sub for the big three right now.


Last edited by Mr.M; 09-04-2013 at 10:33 AM.
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