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Old 09-25-2013, 05:33 PM   #251
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread

I agree... Or Moyes isn't bothered about the EPL, but wants a cup title this season..

Thought we played brilliantly, but the usual issues were there.... Nani's selfishness meant we missed out on a handful of good chances...

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Old 09-25-2013, 05:53 PM   #252
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread

I didn't think there was much in the game, both teams had a number of promising attacks that broke down with the final ball, both keepers made a couple of good saves and in the end our poacher won us the game.

Nani and Kagawa both looked rusty which was to be expected, but I felt they played themselves into the match in the second half and they need to keep their places come Saturday. Rooney is in great form and Hernandez all round play was pretty good, CM was pretty average but what do you expect with a 40 year old winger and CB in there lol. Rafael looked rusty as well and will need a good run of games, great to have him back though.

On a side note, we need to move Buttner on, no way he's ever going to be good enough.

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Yeah it doesn't suit you.

Also generally speaking, a more defensive lineup isn't always the safe option even if it sounds like it as it might mean giving up possession and attacking threat and encouraging the other team to attack relentlessly. Which is fine if you have a pacy team good at counterattacking, not one with the cutting edge of Ashley Young.
Haha! if Ozil is a precision scalpel this is the Ashley Young equivelant.



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That's a fair point. And I agree playing him out of position is a waste and not effective for club or player. He's possibly ok to be in the squad as a 4th choice regular striker, that's about it.
Yeah and that will be a problem going forward for us, my concern is that Rooney is still in limbo contractually with his current one being down to a year come next summer, but at the same time I am not sure how much longer we can keep Hernandez if he doesn't play more often and then we have to fit Danny in as well, not easy to juggle it all, keep everyone happy and at the club.

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Old 09-25-2013, 06:39 PM   #253
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread

missed the game but heard it was pretty much dead even

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Old 09-25-2013, 06:43 PM   #254
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread

60-40 to us I would say...definitely a game for the neutrals... But finger nibblingly tense for both sets of fans.

Great reaction from Hernandez for the goal... And even better, Suarez didn't eat anyone! :P

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Old 09-25-2013, 06:49 PM   #255
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread

Was it full strength lineups? Who played well/badly?

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Old 09-26-2013, 01:08 AM   #256
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread

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Was it full strength lineups? Who played well/badly?
Our front 4 was pretty much full strength bar RvP who is injured and Rafael, Evans and Smalling are all strong choices. Giggs and Jones in midfield with Buttner at LB were our only players from our 2nd string, you'd have to ask spidey about the Liverpool line-up but Gerrard, Lucas, Suarez, Sturridge and Moses all started.

As for who played well; For United I was pleased with Rooney, Chicharito and Smalling. Nani looked rusty but had some promising moments. For Liverpool I thought Enrique was good and Suarez was a constant threat, Sturridge got into some good positions but has the same brainfart tendencies as many young English players.

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Old 09-26-2013, 03:36 AM   #257
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread

Last night was pretty much a mirror of the Anfield match earlier in the season. Both teams had their good spells, the difference being Manchester United took their chance & Liverpool didn't. Which was more or less the story of the first game at Anfield.

Bar I believe De Gea, Smalling & Rooney we were all change from the Etihad defeat with a variety of players making returns & getting a chance to prove themselves. Even though Kagawa & Nani arguably were a little rusty, I mean Moyes surely can see what they bring to the table. Both of them looked lively & looked like they could make something happen the majority of the time they received the ball high up the pitch. That's a feeling I've not had this season with the likes of Valencia, Young or Welbeck.

Really in my view both of them should be starting against West Brom & RVP should start on the bench if he is anything less than 100% & we should give Hernandez a run. That goal last night was fantastic to watch, his movement completely baffled Jose Enrique.

I don't particularly care for the League Cup, but that being said I didn't want to lose to Liverpool so I'm happy with the win.

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Old 09-26-2013, 03:41 AM   #258
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread

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On a side note, we need to move Buttner on, no way he's ever going to be good enough.
See in regards to Buttner, just looking at him play, he doesn't look like a left back. He looks more like a winger being asked to play at left back.

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Old 09-26-2013, 03:47 AM   #259
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread

If it were a league game you'd probably say Liverpool deserved a draw, but that finish by Hernandez had me drooling, his movement at times is unreal you do wonder how long is he going to be happy sitting on the bench week in week out? Kagawa at times looked shocking (like when Hernandez played him through and his first touch was awful) but then in the next breath he's beaten 2 men and hit the bar, I just can't work him out. I'm a huge Smalling fan so I was happy to see him have a good performance as he's been slightly out of form for a while. I thought De Geas save at the end went a bit unnoticed, when you see how late he saw the ball it's a fantastic bit of reaction work.

I'm still trying to work out what Jordan Henderson's role is but I have to say as a neutral I'm thrilled Suarez is back, what a player! Gerrard's been very quiet recently, I forgot he was on the pitch at times. I did think the way Liverpool broke and threw players forward it was very Fergie-esque although I still do think they at times overplay and pass for the sake of passing.

Overall a cracking cup tie with both sides showing a lot of guts.

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Old 09-26-2013, 02:54 PM   #260
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread

http://www.worldsoccer.com/features/...he-panel-voted

World Soccer Greatest XI:
Lev Yashin
Cafu
Paolo Maldini
Bobby Moore
Franz Beckenbauer
Johan Cruyff
Alfredo di Stefano
Zinedine Zidane
Diego Maradona
Pele
Lionel Messi

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Old 09-26-2013, 04:23 PM   #261
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread

To quote my Dad

"you can't call a team the greatest if it doesn't have Bobby Charlton in it"

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Old 09-26-2013, 04:40 PM   #262
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread

sod charlton where the hell is best

again just because he never played in the world cup

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Old 09-26-2013, 05:12 PM   #263
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread

I don't know. Messi looks wrong on that list but I can't really come up with an argument against his inclusion.

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Old 09-26-2013, 09:05 PM   #264
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread

If you click on the link it shows you the exact number of votes. For eg Charlton had 5 & Best 12 so they're certainly in the running. And when I saw Messi I thought the same but when you look at the list of the world's best ever strikers many of them are great goalscorers but Messi is better than most of them at creating goals by himself and now, since he went prolific, he can score just as many as them (if not more).

Edit: I think if Ronaldo (Brazilian) had never had that injury and we could have seen his full potential he'd be in the team too.

Edit 2: The other reason I'm sure that Messi looks wrong is that he's the only one still playing and maybe not even yet reached the peak of his career while many of the others are from decades gone by.

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Old 09-27-2013, 12:08 AM   #265
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread

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If it were a league game you'd probably say Liverpool deserved a draw, but that finish by Hernandez had me drooling, his movement at times is unreal you do wonder how long is he going to be happy sitting on the bench week in week out? Kagawa at times looked shocking (like when Hernandez played him through and his first touch was awful) but then in the next breath he's beaten 2 men and hit the bar, I just can't work him out. I'm a huge Smalling fan so I was happy to see him have a good performance as he's been slightly out of form for a while. I thought De Geas save at the end went a bit unnoticed, when you see how late he saw the ball it's a fantastic bit of reaction work..
I think Kagawa needs a good run of 10 games to get a real evaluation as a PL player, too much in and out of the team to really find some form. Agreed on Smalling, I think he should get a chance to start some PL games as Vidic's partner at CB.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman View Post
http://www.worldsoccer.com/features/...he-panel-voted

World Soccer Greatest XI:
Lev Yashin
Cafu
Paolo Maldini
Bobby Moore
Franz Beckenbauer
Johan Cruyff
Alfredo di Stefano
Zinedine Zidane
Diego Maradona
Pele
Lionel Messi

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Old 09-27-2013, 04:05 AM   #266
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread

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I think Kagawa needs a good run of 10 games to get a real evaluation as a PL player, too much in and out of the team to really find some form. Agreed on Smalling, I think he should get a chance to start some PL games as Vidic's partner at CB.
Yeh that's a fair point on Shinji, he's not even had a consistent run in one position, why does he get shanked out wide? Smalling seemed to suffer to me after everyone blamed him for that Kompany header which in a word was ridiculous, but when you see him in form he's every inch an England CB.

Right mate I have a question, I consider you a good judge of talent so please could you answer this and please any other football fans who can answer please do.... what does Tom Cleverley actually do and why does he get so many opportunities? When I look at him I see a guy who does Carricks's job from a few years back, but without any of Carrick's qualities.

Is it simply lack of options that see him in the team or like Paul Scholes in the Pirlo role (it was like Paul Scholes but with his heart ripped out) does he bring something that my 4-4-2, big man little man uptop brain can't see?

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Old 09-27-2013, 06:53 AM   #267
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread

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Is it simply lack of options that see him in the team or like Paul Scholes in the Pirlo role (it was like Paul Scholes but with his heart ripped out) does he bring something that my 4-4-2, big man little man uptop brain can't see?
Hit the nail on the head there, I believe.

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Old 09-27-2013, 08:39 AM   #268
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread

As a squad player, I think he is a good chap to have, Cleverley. I tend to agree with BatmanBeyond on the point that had any of United's major targets come to the club, he'd probably not get as many games- which I have no doubt is only stating the very obvious, on my part.

Now, as to what he does, he keeps things simple- he recycles the ball and helps keep possession. The thing about keeping possession unfortunately is that if the ball is with the opposition, you have to win it back and that is what both Cleverley and Carrick don't do and what Fellaini should be doing but is quite spectacularly failing (on Etihad evidence). So, he looks like he is doing nothing at all at times.

Also, there are his two major problems-
Getting past his man and having an eye for goal.
For all the wishful thinking on Hodsy's part, he can't ever be Jack Wilshire. So, I have no idea why he's played in that advanced position for England.

Where I'm optimistic for him is that he, at 24, is roughly where Carrick was at 28. If he can target Carrick's level of 2012-13 in the next 3 years, he could be a very effective and even heralded midfielder for the last bit of his career.

Of course, I also thought 4 years ago that Lucas Leiva was the most useless player to ever play football. So what do I know!

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Old 09-27-2013, 09:20 AM   #269
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread

You weren't alone on Lucas Anarchy and I can one up you, I said Carrick wouldn't win anything at Manchester United. 5 league titles and 1 CL later and I'm bigging the guy up!

I hear recycling the ball and keeping it simple, but with all due respect surely the very least you should expect from a midfielder at a club like Manchester United is to be able to pass the ball 5 yards? Carrick at West Ham was doing far more than simply passing side ways, he had abit of something about his play and he wasn't afraid of fighting it out in the Championship for a season. All I see from Cleverley is simple and safe, when you have Carrick's superior ability to do the simple stuff it just seems a waste of a shirt. Who knows maybe like Aaron Ramsey he'll turn into a beast overnight?!

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Old 09-27-2013, 03:18 PM   #270
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread

I feel a lot of you are misjudging players for the wrong reasons. A simple small pass, maybe what the coach has asked. There was an interesting interview with Khedeira when he was partnered with Xabi in cdm, and how he felt his role was less significant than Xabi's, and therefore not seen as well.

Where as when reading from him, Khedeira was aware of this, and his role was more of first man tackle position, which almost never gets the tackle. So your going to get beat more often, which is understandable, given the circumstances, very few times you see the first tackle that goes in the one that gets the ball, but having a plan of defense or attack is critical and knowing when and why to do it is a whole other level.

I wouldn't be surprised if CLeverely is told to make the small passes, until he gets more experience. He's still decently young, and more experienced midfielders can usually out play you and quickly capitalize. Man UTD as well has always been about having a well balanced team.


I picture in 3-4 years cleverly will be a top midfielder. There are always exceptions to this rule where a young player just dominates and is much more advanced for his age. (I think ISCO, Ozil, Messi, I think to an extent Chicharito) are much better than other players there age, and show a lot more composure. Man UTD do believe in the slow process, and slowly try to work in, which is why key figures like Giggs around will really help strengthen there game for when they are in there prime. Mark my words, man utd will be really strong in 3-4 years, and although nobody wants to hear there team may not do as well for 2-3 years, not every team has a budget like the one I cheer for =D.

I think this is also another reason why Fergie was steppign down, he'd knew they have to do another project, another re-vamping of the team. And instead of starting something he knew he wasn't going to finish, he might as well let someone else take the reins.

Just my thought anyways.

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Old 09-28-2013, 05:51 AM   #271
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread

Managers might say keep possession of the ball, but that isn't the same as "pass it 5 yards sideways". When a coach asks to keep it simple it doesn't mean take the easy way out, it just means not to overcomplicate as a lot of goals are scored from the simplest source again it isn't the same as passing the buck which is what Cleverley does.
He's meant to be more adventurous for England, he plays in a more offensive position yet it's the same old drivel from him. He's into wha,t his 4th year as a pro? His 3rd year in the Manchester United squad? He's an England regular and played for GB at the Olympics. He doesn't seem to have made any progress, instead he seems to have regressed.

I might be wrong infact I probably will, but I haven't seen anything from him and I think in years gone by he would've already been on the scrap heap with Gibson and the rest.

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Old 09-28-2013, 07:39 AM   #272
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread

No Mata in the Chelsea team yet again...is Wobbly still around on here? Wonder what his opinion on the Mata situation and also Mikel still getting game time?

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Old 09-28-2013, 08:20 AM   #273
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread

RVP back... But no place for Kagawa in a EPL line up still... Is Moyes just gonna use him in cup games?

EDIT -okay... Looks like the line up I saw may have been a fake one.... D'OH!

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Old 09-28-2013, 09:15 AM   #274
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread

Well Juan Mata's on the pitch now, and Terry has equalised for Chelsea. Looks like a good game now, chances coming back and forth.

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Old 09-28-2013, 09:27 AM   #275
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Default Re: The Ongoing Serie A, La Liga, All English Football, Champions League Thread

And now Fernando Torres has been sent off, poor decision! Spurs may nick the win in the last 10 minutes. That won't improve Jose's mood at all.

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