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Old 09-20-2013, 07:27 PM   #351
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 2

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I believe, and this is pure speculation, that this BvS film is a direct sequel to MOS in a way that's not a Superman trilogy, but a JL trilogy. It's a great way to approach it imo, with MOS setting up the introduction to superheros, BvA expanding that and a final JL film expanding upon it further. Instead of feeling like a bunch of random stories ala Marvel, it will purposefully and thematically be a continued story. keep in mind that's what I hope will happen, and not necessarily what will happen.
Honestly, I think I prefer Marvel's approach. Neither the Marvel nor DC Universes are purposefully and thematically continued stories. They're universe. They're a bunch of different, often seemingly contradictory things happening at once that sometimes intersect to make something else altogether. I think that's kind of the appeal of them. I like that Captain America has is own film series that's very Captain America and Iron Man has his own film series that's very Iron man and then they can come together to make something that's very Avengers. I'd prefer it if DC did that instead.

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Old 09-20-2013, 11:23 PM   #352
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 2

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I believe, and this is pure speculation, that this BvS film is a direct sequel to MOS in a way that's not a Superman trilogy, but a JL trilogy. It's a great way to approach it imo, with MOS setting up the introduction to superheros, BvA expanding that and a final JL film expanding upon it further. Instead of feeling like a bunch of random stories ala Marvel, it will purposefully and thematically be a continued story. keep in mind that's what I hope will happen, and not necessarily what will happen.
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That's what Snyder and Goyer were hired to create, a trilogy about the DCU. But Tsujihara wants to create a more comprehensive DCCU.
You know, this is actually the first time that I've heard of this take on the situation regarding these films and it definitely puts things into a different light if this was the intention from Goyer and Snyder all along.

One thing's for sure, I'm still glad that Superman is currently spearheading the thing and I feel like if this is really the case, that this will just further validate the possibility that Superman is being prepped to lead this new wave of heroes like his father hinted at in MOS.

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Old 09-21-2013, 12:00 AM   #353
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 2

Ugh, there's that word again......"casted".

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Old 09-21-2013, 12:05 AM   #354
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Ugh, there's that word again......"casted".
Things like that give me pause about education in our schools today.

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Old 09-21-2013, 12:28 AM   #355
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Old 09-21-2013, 12:36 AM   #356
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 2

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Oh lawd
Do not underestimate the drawing power of the Minions. Universal moved the film to July 10, 2015. Same release month as the first two Despicable Me films, and only a week prior to this film.

That will definitely impact the earnings on this film. Unless WB moves it off July, which won't happen.

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Old 09-21-2013, 12:40 AM   #357
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Do not underestimate the drawing power of the Minions. Universal moved the film to July 10, 2015. Same release month as the first two Despicable Me films, and only a week prior to this film.

That will definitely impact the earnings on this film. Unless WB moves it off July, which won't happen.
Man of Steel had to compete with Monster's University and now this film has to compete with freaking Minions. Man, talk about having bad karma with children flicks.

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Old 09-21-2013, 12:41 AM   #358
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 2

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Honestly, I think I prefer Marvel's approach. Neither the Marvel nor DC Universes are purposefully and thematically continued stories. They're universe. They're a bunch of different, often seemingly contradictory things happening at once that sometimes intersect to make something else altogether. I think that's kind of the appeal of them. I like that Captain America has is own film series that's very Captain America and Iron Man has his own film series that's very Iron man and then they can come together to make something that's very Avengers. I'd prefer it if DC did that instead.
I would prefer neither. I'd be for non-integrated universes. The characters are different from one another, they have different tones and themes, and focusing on hero-hero interactions removes focus from hero-human interactions.

Would you rather watch a Robocop vs Terminator movie, or a proper Robocop and a proper Terminator movie? What about Alien vs Predator? or Star Trek vs Star Wars?

I make an exception for Freddy vs Jason. That one worked very well.

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Old 09-21-2013, 02:52 AM   #359
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 2

Guys, can you post the pic again of the ending scene of TDKR with Ben's face on it?

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Old 09-21-2013, 03:01 AM   #360
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 2

How would people here feel though if this upcoming film with Batman, and a JL film later on, was in fact part of a intended trilogy that MOS started as a whole? Rather than going down the conventional route where we'd have three solo superman films, what if the plan was to have a JL trilogy that started with a superman origins film that led to the intro of other heroes and into the third film where they all came together.

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Old 09-21-2013, 03:09 AM   #361
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 2

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How would people here feel though if this upcoming film with Batman, and a JL film later on, was in fact part of a intended trilogy that MOS started as a whole? Rather than going down the conventional route where we'd have three solo superman films, what if the plan was to have a JL trilogy that started with a superman origins film that led to the intro of other heroes and into the third film where they all came together.

I can't say for certain this was the plan from the start, but I think Superman is being used as THE connective tissue as it were for this possible DCCU. I am not sure if it's a counter reaction to MARVEL's method or what, but I think we got MOS, followed by a S/B film (default WF as it were) and seeing how that plays out, I think that WW will be introduced in a film with Superman and Batman (default Trinity film) and then we get a JLA film. That route would give me as a Superman fan 4 films featuring Cavil as Supes. I would be satisfied with that for sure.

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Old 09-21-2013, 06:16 AM   #362
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I can't say for certain this was the plan from the start, but I think Superman is being used as THE connective tissue as it were for this possible DCCU. I am not sure if it's a counter reaction to MARVEL's method or what, but I think we got MOS, followed by a S/B film (default WF as it were) and seeing how that plays out, I think that WW will be introduced in a film with Superman and Batman (default Trinity film) and then we get a JLA film. That route would give me as a Superman fan 4 films featuring Cavil as Supes. I would be satisfied with that for sure.
Honestly, I think I could do without the Trinity film and just go to the JLA film after our next film with Batman in it.

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Old 09-21-2013, 06:38 AM   #363
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 2

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How would people here feel though if this upcoming film with Batman, and a JL film later on, was in fact part of a intended trilogy that MOS started as a whole? Rather than going down the conventional route where we'd have three solo superman films, what if the plan was to have a JL trilogy that started with a superman origins film that led to the intro of other heroes and into the third film where they all came together.
I personally "think" (notice I said think and not know) that's the way it's been planned all along. Apparently, there are some forum members here that seem to have a front row seat to WB's discussions with Snyder and company, about how S vs B is a panic reaction to the ill received () Man of Steel. Instead of getting a "true" sequel.

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Old 09-21-2013, 07:00 AM   #364
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I personally "think" (notice I said think and not know) that's the way it's been planned all along. Apparently, there are some forum members here that seem to have a front row seat to WB's discussions with Snyder and company, about how S vs B is a panic reaction to the ill received () Man of Steel. Instead of getting a "true" sequel.
That would be a interesting route to take; though one can't help but wonder if this means great things for Superman in the long run since there's a strong possibility that all of this, this DCU will have Superman at the front and center of all of this, being the glue that ties all of these larger than life characters together.

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Old 09-21-2013, 07:18 AM   #365
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 2

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I would prefer neither. I'd be for non-integrated universes. The characters are different from one another, they have different tones and themes, and focusing on hero-hero interactions removes focus from hero-human interactions.

Would you rather watch a Robocop vs Terminator movie, or a proper Robocop and a proper Terminator movie? What about Alien vs Predator? or Star Trek vs Star Wars?

I make an exception for Freddy vs Jason. That one worked very well.
The difference between all of those examples you gave and comic book super hero movies is that comic book super heroes come from the same fictional universe in the first place.

I also don't see the point in making a distinction between hero-hero interactions and hero-human interactions, or why assuming one is superior to another. Especially since, following the Marvel method, you don't get any less of the later and only get the former every once in a while anyway.

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Old 09-21-2013, 07:33 AM   #366
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Yeah, DC/MARVEL superheroes have existed in integrated universes since the JSA made it's first appearance and Namor and the Human Torch went at it back in the golden age.

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Old 09-21-2013, 09:10 AM   #367
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 2

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Man of Steel had to compete with Monster's University and now this film has to compete with freaking Minions. Man, talk about having bad karma with children flicks.
I'm glad that Minions is opening the week before, rather than the other way around. It'll have slowed down a bit by the second weekend.

But let's assume that the buzz of this movie will be around TDK/Avengers level and score a $110M-$150M opening weekend. For TDK, Hellboy 2 suffered a 70% drop while Journey to the Center of the Earth only 41%.

It might take a chunk out of Minions's second weekend, rather than the other way around.

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Old 09-21-2013, 09:19 AM   #368
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 2

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That would be a interesting route to take; though one can't help but wonder if this means great things for Superman in the long run since there's a strong possibility that all of this, this DCU will have Superman at the front and center of all of this, being the glue that ties all of these larger than life characters together.
That's entirely likely. It was after all, in 1939 that Superman pretty much created the super hero genre and became, and has been, the cornerstone of the DC comics universe. Perhaps they are trying to re-create that success here.

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Old 09-21-2013, 09:34 AM   #369
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Default Re: All Things Superman and Batman: An Open Discussion - Part 2

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I believe, and this is pure speculation, that this BvS film is a direct sequel to MOS in a way that's not a Superman trilogy, but a JL trilogy. It's a great way to approach it imo, with MOS setting up the introduction to superheros, BvA expanding that and a final JL film expanding upon it further. Instead of feeling like a bunch of random stories ala Marvel, it will purposefully and thematically be a continued story. keep in mind that's what I hope will happen, and not necessarily what will happen.
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I personally "think" (notice I said think and not know) that's the way it's been planned all along. Apparently, there are some forum members here that seem to have a front row seat to WB's discussions with Snyder and company, about how S vs B is a panic reaction to the ill received () Man of Steel. Instead of getting a "true" sequel.
I remember before MOS came out people were still expecting a JL movie after that, with Snyder even commenting on how it would be "too soon." Then when MOS came out, people assumed that the MOS sequel would be next, since they then had ideas based on what they saw in MOS, or what they wanted to see but didn't get.

So while people were expecting a MOS sequel, and then a JL movie, most people didn't think that what would happen would be something more in the middle- i.e. a Batman/Superman movie.

I think WB and Snyder didn't exactly know what would happen after MOS, but Snyder knew that he would have to be open to the shared universe when taking on Superman, and this is how they decided to go after MOS's release.


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No Luthor has been cast but characters like Mercy, Lana, and Talia have tied in with his character in the comics at LexCorp. Both Jeff Sneider and El Mayimbe have called the role Batma's love interest, one that is tall and physical and open to all ethnicities. It could be one of the more socialite Batman love interests or an original character for all we know. Or Wonder Woman or (dark horse) Zatanna (don't know if Del Toro's JLD project is going anywhere or if it would be in the same continuity.) Guess that about covers anything and everything.
What of the speculation that it might be Mercy Graves? And that she will be an Amazon and that this can tie to Wonder Woman for possible future introduction?

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Old 09-21-2013, 09:51 AM   #370
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That's entirely likely. It was after all, in 1939 that Superman pretty much created the super hero genre and became, and has been, the cornerstone of the DC comics universe. Perhaps they are trying to re-create that success here.

From your lips to Zod's ears friend. If the purpose of these films, and despite my own thinking we all can't really be certain of this for sure, but if the purpose of these films is to build up a DCCU which features multiple DC heroes so as to make them successful franchises in their own right then having Superman front and center makes a whole mess of sense. I only hope that is not undermined by this S/B film.

Not to turn this into some anti-Bat rant, but if you want a profitable future for all the possible DC heroes in the WB stable then they have to have the audience see them treated with some inherent dignity in regards to ye old Caped Crusader. If you do what's been commonplace in comics the past few decades and go out of your way to make every other hero look sort of besides the point next to Batman then this new DCCU is not going to work.

I mean the GA would go "What's the purpose of having these colorful and varied other heroes with their tailor made for the big screen fantastical powers when that normal guy with the fancy belt is all that's really needed to solve EVERY situation."

I think it's better for Supes to be out front just because he's a better fit for the bigger than life threats and challenges that are needed in making a series of big tentpole type productions a fleshed out DCCU is going to offer up.

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Old 09-21-2013, 10:36 AM   #371
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It sounds like we'll be having Superman onscreen every two years. That's not bad.

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Old 09-21-2013, 10:46 AM   #372
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The difference between all of those examples you gave and comic book super hero movies is that comic book super heroes come from the same fictional universe in the first place.
Robocop vs Terminator, Alien vs Predator, Star Trek / Doctor Who, all exist in comic book form, I did not come up with those examples myself. Pretty much everything exists in comic book form, as a million comic books are published every month. With movies though, you have very few stories you can tell, so you have to be picky.

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I also don't see the point in making a distinction between hero-hero interactions and hero-human interactions, or why assuming one is superior to another. Especially since, following the Marvel method, you don't get any less of the later and only get the former every once in a while anyway.
I'm not a fan of the Marvel movies, so your point is moot to me. I do not find Pepper Potts, Nick Fury, or Jane Foster particularly well developed at all. I did enjoy Betty Ross in Hulk, but she's gone now, so whatever.

I value characters like Lois Lane, or Jim Gordon in the Nolan trilogy, more than I value hearing banter between Tony Stark and Bruce Banner. It is my preference.


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Old 09-21-2013, 11:00 AM   #373
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Robocop vs Terminator, Alien vs Predator, Star Trek / Doctor Who, all exist in comic book form, I did not come up with those examples myself. Pretty much everything exists in comic book form, as a million comic books are published every month. With movies though, you have very few stories you can tell, so you have to be picky.
But there's a pretty significant difference there, and you know there is. Those examples are all gimmick crossover comics, most of them only one shots or single miniseries. And none of them have any actual bearing on the respective cannons of the properties involved. Alien VS. Predator is the only one you could reasonably call a series, and even then there's barely a couple of dozen installments.

The Marvel characters, on the other hand, are from the same fictional universe. Crossovers between different Marvel heroes isn't a once in a while gimmick that doesn't have a lasting impact, it's an inherent conceit of these fictional properties, and one that a lot of core concepts running through all of these series are built on. A defining part of Captain America's life is that he is a member of The Avengers.

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I'm not a fan of the Marvel movies, so your point is moot to me. I do not find Pepper Potts or Jane Foster particularly well developed at all. I did enjoy Betty Ross in Hulk, but she's gone now, so whatever.
Okay, so if you don't really like Marvel's "human" characters then why do you want to see more interaction between super heroes and normal people?

(which, I really have to stress, we're not actually getting any less of, I really don't understand your criticism here)

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I value characters like Lois Lane, or Jim Gordon in the Nolan trilogy, more than I value hearing banter between Tony Stark and Bruce Banner. It is my preference.
I don't understand what the difference is. And I don't understand why those two things are mutually exclusive.

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Old 09-21-2013, 02:36 PM   #374
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Batman-News.com ‏@BatmanNewsCom 10m
Be an extra in 'Batman vs. Superman' on October 19 in Los Angeles http://batman-news.com/2013/09/21/ex...9-los-angeles/
Hmm, interesting

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Old 09-21-2013, 02:42 PM   #375
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Yeah, I saw that. Seems weird. Already in October?

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