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Old 10-13-2013, 10:14 PM   #901
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 8

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Round and round we go. I think frankly for Affleck a hybrid of Burton and Nolan's Bat would suffice. Split the difference, which is what they kinda did for the Arkham games.
As far as aesthetics go, yeah, pretty much. But the games do go into the fantastical range closer to the comics, which is great to see.

I can't wait to see out first glimpse of Affleck in the suit, or hell, even as Bruce.

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Old 10-13-2013, 10:15 PM   #902
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 8

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I don't agree with this, at all. I get it, you like a lot of different interpretations, and that's fine, but that doesn't mean they're all a "correct/good/right" version of Batman, just because he's a fictional character. There's tons of great Elseworld Tales that are fun to read, and I like them, but for the most part, it's not a "right/correct" interpretation of Batman. Look at something drastic like Red Rain, where Batman is a friggin vampire. It's a fun comic, and I like it, but it's far from bring "right". And it's clear that's what Rorschach is implying.
Batman is a fictional character. What's the standard for "right?" Just what is the bar?

Yes, there are interpretations which I think are completely stupid and not worth anyone's time, but I still wouldn't call them "wrong."

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Old 10-13-2013, 10:20 PM   #903
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 8

I suppose "wrong" would be a take that betrays any/all of the fundamentals of the character.

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Old 10-13-2013, 10:22 PM   #904
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 8

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Batman is a fictional character. What's the standard for "right?" Just what is the bar?

Yes, there are interpretations which I think are completely stupid and not worth anyone's time, but I still wouldn't call them "wrong."
Well, lets just say, I would definitely call Batman being a vampire as a completely wrong interpretation of the character. Again, fun to read, but that's not what the character is. There are definitely things that could be considered "right/wrong" about the character.

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Old 10-13-2013, 10:36 PM   #905
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 8

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Then say that is your favorite version. That's a fair thing to say. "Right" is a useless term for a fictional character.
I agree, "right" implies there is one way to do something and everything else is wrong. It is not "right" just because you personally like it.

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Old 10-13-2013, 10:36 PM   #906
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 8

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I assume "wrong" would be a take that betrays any/all of the fundamentals of the character.
Then it depends on what's considered a "fundamental" for the character.

The obvious is that Batman has to be a man who dresses like a bat. Otherwise he wouldn't be called Batman. So IMO that's the absolute lowest bar. You can't dress Batman in a tutu and still be able to call him Batman.

Other things that might be considered fundamental is that he's a billionaire in Gotham named Bruce Wayne, and fights crime because his parents were murdered in front of him as a child, and that he does so with superior martial arts and detective skills, and has a no-killing rule. But again, those are cultural traditions and IMO are not inherent in the name "Batman." Those are just common traits (or limitations, depending on your viewpoint) we have agreed to give him through the decades.

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Well, lets just say, I would definitely call Batman being a vampire as a completely wrong interpretation of the character. Again, fun to read, but that's not what the character is. There are definitely things that could be considered "right/wrong" about the character.
Well I dunno, does he still dress as a bat?

Neil Gaiman retold the Snow White story, where Snow White was a vampire, and it was glorious. Who am I to say it's wrong when he still had Snow White be a beautiful princess who bit into a poisoned apple and fell into a coma until a handsome prince broke the spell?

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Old 10-13-2013, 10:36 PM   #907
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 8

Affleck.

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Old 10-13-2013, 11:00 PM   #908
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 8

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Then say that is your favorite version. That's a fair thing to say. "Right" is a useless term for a fictional character.
Not really. Doing Batman "right" would be basically adapting what the comics are like into live action. TAS and the Arkham games have done the best job of adapting Batman onto film. There should be small liberties taken for the films, but not deviations as big as the Nolan films. They got the basics of Batman right, and I loved that, but Batman was weaker and less intelligent than the comics, and I felt that Ra's and Scarecrow would've benefitted from a director with a vision that wasn't so against the more supernatural and horror/fantasy elements of Batman.


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Old 10-13-2013, 11:04 PM   #909
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 8

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Neil Gaiman retold the Snow White story, where Snow White was a vampire, and it was glorious. Who am I to say it's wrong when he still had Snow White be a beautiful princess who bit into a poisoned apple and fell into a coma until a handsome prince broke the spell?
Again, you seem to be missing the point. Just because you enjoy different interpretations, doesn't mean those interpretations that you like are what is actually in line with the character. Being open to more interpretations, doesn't equal every interpretation being a "correct/right" version, just because it's "fictional land". Like it or not, a vampire Snow White isn't the correct version of the character. I don't even know why you're trying to pawn it off that it's still a correct/right version? It's a clear deviation, and one that was made on purpose. And that is the point.

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Old 10-13-2013, 11:17 PM   #910
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 8

Well said, Travesty.

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Old 10-13-2013, 11:18 PM   #911
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 8

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Not really. Doing Batman "right" would be basically adapting what the comics are like into live action. TAS and the Arkham games have done the best job of adapting Batman onto film. There should be small liberties taken for the films, but not deviations as big as the Nolan films. They got the basics of Batman right, and I loved that, but Batman was weaker and less intelligent than the comics, and I felt that Ra's and Scarecrow would've benefitted from a director with a vision that wasn't so against the more supernatural and horror/fantasy elements of Batman.
Except that there have been thousands of different Batman comics over the decades, with vastly different tones and styles, with vastly different situations, and Batman has been portrayed very differently depending on what comic you're reading. So, which one's do you use, because all of them have fans? The argument that they should "follow the comics" is much more complex than it first appears. Also, Batman wasn't dumb in the Nolan movies, he just wasn't Batgod who new everything about everything and everyone and always had a plan for EVERY situation and could do anything.

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Old 10-13-2013, 11:24 PM   #912
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 8

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Again, you seem to be missing the point. Just because you enjoy different interpretations, doesn't mean those interpretations that you like are what is actually in line with the character. Being open to more interpretations, doesn't equal every interpretation begin a "correct/right" version, just because it's "fictional land". Like it or not, a vampire Snow White isn't the correct version of the character. I don't even know why you're trying to pawn it off that it's still a correct/right version? It's a clear deviation, and one that was made on purpose. And that is the point.
Yes, I'd agree that it was a purposeful deviation from what is culturally accepted. But it still doesn't make it "wrong." Right and wrong implies that there is some kind of standard, but even when the comics canon deviates from itself, just what IS the standard?

I think we're mostly arguing semantics.

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Except that there have been thousands of different Batman comics over the decades, with vastly different tones and styles, with vastly different situations, and Batman has been portrayed very differently depending on what comic you're reading. So, which one's do you use, because all of them have fans? The argument that they should "follow the comics" is much more complex than it first appears. Also, Batman wasn't dumb in the Nolan movies, he just wasn't Batgod who new everything about everything and everyone and always had a plan for EVERY situation and could do anything.
Exactly.

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Old 10-13-2013, 11:36 PM   #913
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 8

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Except that there have been thousands of different Batman comics over the decades, with vastly different tones and styles, with vastly different situations, and Batman has been portrayed very differently depending on what comic you're reading. So, which one's do you use, because all of them have fans? The argument that they should "follow the comics" is much more complex than it first appears. Also, Batman wasn't dumb in the Nolan movies, he just wasn't Batgod who new everything about everything and everyone and always had a plan for EVERY situation and could do anything.
I guess I'm talking about the way he's portrayed in some of the major Batman storylines .

The Long Halloween, Dark Victory, Hush, No Man's Land, Tower of Babel, Under the Hood, R.I.P, Court of Owls...
All of these depict the Batman I want to see adapted on the big screen, and are what I consider "right", they're what I think of when I think of the correct interpretation of Batman. And they're all similar to each other, those books give a pretty good idea of who Batman is in the comics.And the movies haven't been close enough to the Batman portrayed in those books. .

Burton did a good job with the almost supernatural element of Batman, but his first movie is brought down by some campiness.

Nolan's Batman movies had amazing stories and acting, but it was too realistic of a take on a pretty unrealistic character (in most of his stories, before someone mentions Year One) if we're going for accuracy in adapting the source material.

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Old 10-14-2013, 12:22 AM   #914
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 8

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Yes, I'd agree that it was a purposeful deviation from what is culturally accepted. But it still doesn't make it "wrong." Right and wrong implies that there is some kind of standard, but even when the comics canon deviates from itself, just what IS the standard?

I think we're mostly arguing semantics.
Of course we're debating semantics, because you clearly aren't grasping the original point. Or maybe you do know the point, and you're vehemently defending the movies that came before? I don't know, I seriously don't know how it's gotten this far, without you realizing what has been said?

So lets try to do this again: of course it isn't wrong for you that Snow White is a vampire, but it isn't correct either. Nobody is saying that you can't write those stories, or that you shouldn't, but there is a clear divide on what is "right or wrong" when it comes to the back story of that character. Example: is Snow White supposed to be a vampire? Answer: No, she is a princess. Question: Can we make a story about Snow White being a vampire? Answer: Sure, if you want to, but you're deviating from the mythos. It will be a wrong interpretation, though. Question: is it wrong to do so? Answer: no, again, you can do what you want, unless you're denying how the character is originally portrayed, than yes, it is "wrong".

See?

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Old 10-14-2013, 12:50 AM   #915
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 8

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Of course we're debating semantics, because you clearly aren't grasping the original point. Or maybe you do know the point, and you're vehemently defending the moves that came before? I don't know, I seriously don't know how it's gotten this far, without you realizing what has been said?

So lets try to do this again: of course it isn't wrong for you that Snow White is a vampire, but it isn't correct either. Nobody is saying that you can't write those stories, or that you shouldn't, but there is a clear divide on what is "right or wrong" when it comes to the back story of that character. Example: is Snow White supposed to be a vampire? Answer: No, she is a princess. Question: Can we make a story about Snow White being a vampire? Answer: Sure, if you want to, but you're deviating from the mythos. It will be a wrong interpretation, though. Question: is it wrong to do so? Answer: no, again, you can do what you want, unless you're denying how the character is originally portrayed, then yes, it is "wrong".

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Old 10-14-2013, 05:10 AM   #916
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 8

Curious to get everyone's thoughts on this, but out of ALL of the heroes on Earth that DC has to offer, do you guys feel that it makes the most sense that Batman would be the one that would respond to Superman's presence on Earth?

I mean if that's the goal that Snyder and Goyer are going for, then I just wanted to know if everyone else feels that it makes sense or if they think that another hero would have been more logical for that scenario.

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Old 10-14-2013, 05:31 AM   #917
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 8

He comes from a city [world] where seemingly good men are corrupt and people with too much power go mad.

It's only natural for Batman's suspicions and interest in Superman to be on a cautious alert.

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Old 10-14-2013, 06:04 AM   #918
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 8

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He comes from a city [world] where seemingly good men are corrupt and people with too much power go mad.

It's only natural for Batman's suspicions and interest in Superman to be on a cautious alert.
Well that, i actually get, though my question was if anyone thought that there are any other heroes who they thought would have made just as much sense in taking interest on Superman, in terms of being suspicious of him, after the events of MOS.

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Old 10-14-2013, 09:52 AM   #919
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 8

Perhaps, but not anyone in The DC Universe would test Kal/Clark both physically and mentally as much as Batman .

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Old 10-14-2013, 10:07 AM   #920
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 8

I'm more on Anita's side in this debate, I think there is a very blurred line there. For stories that are clearly wayy outside the box (like Batman being a vampire or whatever), there's a word for that: Elseworlds. But there's a very wide net of what can still be considered a valid interpretation of the Batman mythos because it's a character that's been evolving so much for 70 years. A character like that doesn't even grow in the first place if different people don't take some risks and try different things. A lot of the things that we consider to be "right interpretations" of the mythos today have nothing to do with what was first created in 1939. I mean, there are fans on this board who will fight you tooth and nail if you try to say that the Batman 60s series is an invalid take on the mythos. And really, who am I to say they're wrong? When you have such a wide gap between various "arguably valid" interpretations I think that's where the haziness comes in and it becomes difficult to definitively label something as "wrong".

For instance, Beware the Batman has a lot of unique elements and in many ways is about the relationship between Bruce and Tatsu...an original character that's not from the comics and is kind of substituting for Robin in some ways. And yet I don't consider it a "wrong" interpretation at all because enough of the core elements are there that it feels recognizably "Batman" to me.

I just think part of the nature of comic book characters that they are myths that are states of perpetual retelling. Batman is not a finished story (except for certain isolated examples like the Nolan trilogy), I think by it's very nature it has to be more flexible about the guidelines of what can and cannot be done in order to grow the mythology rather than repeat the same things over and over.

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Old 10-14-2013, 10:40 AM   #921
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 8

Bet you guys didn't know that Ben Affleck IS Batman!!, because I hardly see any talk about Ben Affleck IS Batman!! in the Ben Affleck IS Batman!! thread. That is weird to me, because I would have thought that in the Ben Affleck IS Batman!! there would be more discussion about how Ben Affleck IS Batman!!

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Old 10-14-2013, 10:43 AM   #922
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 8

So I saw Runner Runner over the weekend, not a good movie overall but it does give you a peak on how Ben might look like as Bruce Wayne.

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Old 10-14-2013, 10:52 AM   #923
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I haven't had a chance to see it yet, but I picked up The Town over the weekend....I hear he is tough and gritty in that too.

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Old 10-14-2013, 10:54 AM   #924
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 8

He does do the 'tough and gritty' thing in it, but I still think both The Town and Argo would've benefited from a stronger actor in the lead role. I really hope some day he can set ego aside and stop acting in his own films, at least not in the lead role. Though I guess that's out the window if he ends up directing the Batman reboot.

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Old 10-14-2013, 10:56 AM   #925
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Default Re: Ben Affleck IS Batman!! - Part 8

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Bet you guys didn't know that Ben Affleck IS Batman!!, because I hardly see any talk about Ben Affleck IS Batman!! in the Ben Affleck IS Batman!! thread. That is weird to me, because I would have thought that in the Ben Affleck IS Batman!! there would be more discussion about how Ben Affleck IS Batman!!
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