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View Poll Results: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...
Love it! 92 36.51%
It's okay... 56 22.22%
Hate it! 104 41.27%
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Old 12-14-2013, 11:10 AM   #251
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 2

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Incompetence? Killian almost killed Tony, almost killed and replaced the president and caused multiple acts of terrorism and bombings
Boring. What was Killiandarin going to do with this? Rule the world? Create an army of Extremis soldiers to battle against Thanos? No. Control the war on terror and make money. YAWN. Typical evil business man out for a quick buck. Pathetic, uninteresting stereotype that no amount of forcing me to pity for how much of a loser he is can fix. HISHE compares him to Syndrome, but really, Syndrome is a FAR more compelling and interesting character, with a better plan.

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Old 12-14-2013, 11:16 AM   #252
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 2

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I'm glad you brought the Joker into this, as he would categorize Killian as a complete and utter failure, which he is, by arch-villian standards of course. Hell, even Lex Luthor got Lois Lane killed breifly in the original Superman movie. Killian failed hilariously at everything he set out to accomplish. All characters in here are no worse off than when they began. It's pretty pathetic actually. Joker would be very disappointed in this loser.

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Old 12-14-2013, 11:20 AM   #253
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 2

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Boring. What was Killiandarin going to do with this? Rule the world? Create an army of Extremis soldiers to battle against Thanos? No. Control the war on terror and make money. YAWN. Typical evil business man out for a quick buck. Pathetic, uninteresting stereotype that no amount of forcing me to pity for how much of a loser he is can fix. HISHE compares him to Syndrome, but really, Syndrome is a FAR more compelling and interesting character, with a better plan.


Alright, what did you exactly want him to do? He was basically going to have control over the United States by replacing the President, how is that a boring plan? Because in movies like this the plans are usually much more generic, Killian or not the plan looked like it was gonna be the same.

Look at other villains people are also looking forward too like Thanos, what's his plan? Collect the MacGuffins to rule everything, or destroy everything, or whatever, Loki? In Thor 1 it was to morder the Frost Giants due to a tantrum and daddy issues, in The Avengers it was an Army to... you guessed it, take over the world.

I'm not exactly sure where you're trying to get with that, Killian's motivations weren't bad, in fact they were a little more interesting than most MCU villain's

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Old 12-14-2013, 11:24 AM   #254
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 2

Yeah, the only villain who had plans as good as/better than Killian was Obidiah Stane lol

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Old 12-14-2013, 02:53 PM   #255
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 2

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Yeah, the only villain who had plans as good as/better than Killian was Obidiah Stane lol
Indeed. I get that people didn't like the film, let alone the villain, but I really can't understand how one can make light of Killian's plans. It was far and away the most intricately devised plot in the MCU, and it's up there within the genre as well, for that matter. It wasn't just some ho-hum plot to take over the world/kill whoever/usurp the throne. A lot of people seem to forget that he was still driven to perfect extremis and continue to grow his corporation. The guy wasn't nearly as vapid as people insist.

Seems as though a lot of people are simply projecting their dislike of the movie in general(or a particular part of it...) to every single aspect of it. Ever since the Mandarin bandwagon hit full steam, I've heard people call everything, be it the score, cinematography, or Tony's Audi, the worst POS the genre has seen. I'd really love to hear how antagonists like Abom, Gen. Ross, Red Skull, Justin Hammer, Laufey, or Malekith are more cunning, deep, and creative than Killian was. He's second only to Loki in my book; no other villain has even come close to putting the hero through the wringer the way that he did.

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Old 12-14-2013, 03:03 PM   #256
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Alright, what did you exactly want him to do? He was basically going to have control over the United States by replacing the President, how is that a boring plan? Because in movies like this the plans are usually much more generic, Killian or not the plan looked like it was gonna be the same.

Look at other villains people are also looking forward too like Thanos, what's his plan? Collect the MacGuffins to rule everything, or destroy everything, or whatever, Loki? In Thor 1 it was to morder the Frost Giants due to a tantrum and daddy issues, in The Avengers it was an Army to... you guessed it, take over the world.

I'm not exactly sure where you're trying to get with that, Killian's motivations weren't bad, in fact they were a little more interesting than most MCU villain's
I don't care that much about Thanos. I know very little about him except that he's in love with Death, which I kinda like. Loki, well, in Thor he was a very interesting character with a more interesting motivation than in Avengers. A man ruled by jealousy and a sense of self-entitlement is driven to seek the approval of the father he believes sees him as inferior, what makes the plan far more interesting is the fact Loki sets out to accomplish the same thing Thor did at the beginning of the film, essentially Loki's been driven mad by his own sense of inferiority and the almost justification of that feeling, into a similar place Thor was at. I'll explain what I hoped for based on the trailers of IM3: A villian with a desire to tear down what he percieves as a false idol, and wants to destroy everything that he represents. THAT'S fantastically interesting to me. Far more interesting than creating super soldiers to make money. His plan was great. But with ultimately boring results.

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Old 12-14-2013, 03:08 PM   #257
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 2

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Indeed. I get that people didn't like the film, let alone the villain, but I really can't understand how one can make light of Killian's plans. It was far and away the most intricately devised plot in the MCU, and it's up there within the genre as well, for that matter. It wasn't just some ho-hum plot to take over the world/kill whoever/usurp the throne. A lot of people seem to forget that he was still driven to perfect extremis and continue to grow his corporation. The guy wasn't nearly as vapid as people insist.

Seems as though a lot of people are simply projecting their dislike of the movie in general(or a particular part of it...) to every single aspect of it. Ever since the Mandarin bandwagon hit full steam, I've heard people call everything, be it the score, cinematography, or Tony's Audi, the worst POS the genre has seen. I'd really love to hear how antagonists like Abom, Gen. Ross, Red Skull, Justin Hammer, Laufey, or Malekith are more cunning, deep, and creative than Killian was. He's second only to Loki in my book; no other villain has even come close to putting the hero through the wringer the way that he did.


I'd say Joker/Bane put Bruce through a hell of a storm, but Marvel wise? Yeah I agree.

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Old 12-14-2013, 03:41 PM   #258
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Indeed. I get that people didn't like the film, let alone the villain, but I really can't understand how one can make light of Killian's plans. It was far and away the most intricately devised plot in the MCU, and it's up there within the genre as well, for that matter. It wasn't just some ho-hum plot to take over the world/kill whoever/usurp the throne. A lot of people seem to forget that he was still driven to perfect extremis and continue to grow his corporation. The guy wasn't nearly as vapid as people insist.

Seems as though a lot of people are simply projecting their dislike of the movie in general(or a particular part of it...) to every single aspect of it. Ever since the Mandarin bandwagon hit full steam, I've heard people call everything, be it the score, cinematography, or Tony's Audi, the worst POS the genre has seen. I'd really love to hear how antagonists like Abom, Gen. Ross, Red Skull, Justin Hammer, Laufey, or Malekith are more cunning, deep, and creative than Killian was. He's second only to Loki in my book; no other villain has even come close to putting the hero through the wringer the way that he did.
Joker. BAM. Laufey was a side villian, more a pawn than anything else. Malekith, well, if I knew what his real motivation was in that movie I'd probably agree with you. Lol. He wasn't that great. Seriously, why does he want to bring back darkness? Was that ever explained? What's driving his actions? Red Skull, I got what I expected: A crazy nazi with a red face. But he was no more interesting a character than Killian. Ross, well, once again, not someone I'd put in the "villain" category. Blonsky was a decent villain. Good development from bitter aging soldier into a power junkie, into a monster looking to prove he's better. I find it hilarious that you apparently placed Justin Hammer in the category of "villain" with a straight face.

I'm not sure what you mean by "put through the wringer". In what way? He blew up his house. That was Killian's only real accomplishment. Everything else is just a loss due to Tony's own inadequacies. Even the house thing is really because Jarvis somehow couldn't detect the freaking missle heading their way. Seriously, no one dies, no one's worse off because of their experiences in this film. All the main characters are better off because of KILLIAN.

Killian's plan is not the problem. It's the implications of the plan. It's just not that scary or interesting. It's a genius plan, it really is. But really really boring when you get right down to what Killian is trying to accomplish: Make money, build his business. It's great for him I'm sure, but not that entertaining or interesting to me.

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Old 12-14-2013, 04:33 PM   #259
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 2

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Joker. BAM.
MCU. BAM.

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Laufey was a side villian, more a pawn than anything else.
But a villain nonetheless. This is the sort of character people say Killian was worse than, which is what I'm referring to.

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Malekith, well, if I knew what his real motivation was in that movie I'd probably agree with you.
...ok?

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Red Skull, I got what I expected
Irrelevant. He was as inconsequential as they come; his only significance in the MCU is that he bungled about with the cosmic cube. Compare that to Killian who destroyed Tony's house, nearly killed him on two separate occasions, kidnapped Tony's best friend, his woman, and the POTUS...the list goes on and on. Red Skull didn't have anywhere near the impact on Cap or the story in the same way that Killian did; him being 'what you expected' is neither here nor there. In fact, that's a big part of most people's problem.

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Ross, well, once again, not someone I'd put in the "villain" category.
Perhaps I should've emphasized the word 'antagonist', but my point still stands. He stood in opposition of the hero or protagonist, and was a forgettable cliche by contrast.

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Blonsky was a decent villain.
Blonsky was a decent attack dog. Another example of a poorly written villain; his entire subplot is a contrivance in that he only exists as a payoff to the audience - someone the Hulk could actually smash during the climax. Other than that, not much to write home about. Cool fight scenes though, I'll give him that much.

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I find it hilarious that you apparently placed Justin Hammer in the category of "villain" with a straight face.
The hilarious part is that Hammer is more compelling than half of the MCUs rogues gallery, come to think of it.

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I'm not sure what you mean by "put through the wringer". In what way? He blew up his house. That was Killian's only real accomplishment. Everything else is just a loss due to Tony's own inadequacies. Even the house thing is really because Jarvis somehow couldn't detect the freaking missle heading their way. Seriously, no one dies, no one's worse off because of their experiences in this film. All the main characters are better off because of KILLIAN.
You serious? Not to beat a dead horse, but along with destroying Tony's house, he hijacked his armor, destroyed AF1, kidnapped the POTUS and the two most important people in his life, killed his old flame, hospitalized Happy, and came pretty damn close to owning the White House. This is exactly what I'm talking about - trivializing what occurred. I'm not saying you have to like it, but at least acknowledge what was there. I'm not the biggest fan of Peyton Manning, but...well, bad example, but you get the idea(if you're a football fan anyway).

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It's great for him I'm sure, but not that entertaining or interesting to me.
Fair enough, nothing wrong with that, but that's also no reason to be so dismissive. You're glossing over, ignoring, or trivializing key points relating to his scheme, and that's just not a fair way to assess a villain, at all.

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Old 12-14-2013, 07:48 PM   #260
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MCU. BAM.
Too bad you didn't specify that. Fail on your part. Although good way of dodging the fact that the Joker is 100 times the villain Killian could possibly hope to be. And mocking? Really? Disappointing.
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But a villain nonetheless. This is the sort of character people say Killian was worse than, which is what I'm referring to.
They'd be right. Hardly in writing though. Performance from Colm Feore does it.
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Irrelevant. He was as inconsequential as they come; his only significance in the MCU is that he bungled about with the cosmic cube. Compare that to Killian who destroyed Tony's house, nearly killed him on two separate occasions, kidnapped Tony's best friend, his woman, and the POTUS...the list goes on and on. Red Skull didn't have anywhere near the impact on Cap or the story in the same way that Killian did; him being 'what you expected' is neither here nor there. In fact, that's a big part of most people's problem.
Incorrect. Expectations are always vitally important to humanity as a whole. Although you are right. Skull didn't have anywhere near the impact that Killian did. Skull's impact was far greater. RS is the reason Cap loses his best friend, and eventually the reason he's stripped of all he knows and cares about from all of his friends to his "woman" (really? disgusting) and his entire world as he knows it. And he didn't even try! Far worse than a botched takeover and curing of your enemy's PTSD whilst also fixing his relationship with the woman you also want as your trophy. How horrible of him! He truly is a criminal genius!
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Perhaps I should've emphasized the word 'antagonist', but my point still stands. He stood in opposition of the hero or protagonist, and was a forgettable cliche by contrast.
Just like Killian. I'm glad you agree.
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Blonsky was a decent attack dog. Another example of a poorly written villain; his entire subplot is a contrivance in that he only exists as a payoff to the audience - someone the Hulk could actually smash during the climax. Other than that, not much to write home about. Cool fight scenes though, I'll give him that much.
So only you get to trivialize then? Doesn't that make you a hypocrite? It certainly does. A simple villain is not a poorly written one, he's actually quite decently written. Interesting enough to invest in, but not over convoluted to the point of off putting. And just believable enough to get his character development, but not over indulged in to the point of woobifying him. It's a pretty perfect way to have a villain actually now that I think about it. Not exceptionally written mind you, but like I said: decent. And being a conflict for the hero to solve is the purpose of all villains.
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The hilarious part is that Hammer is more compelling than half of the MCUs rogues gallery, come to think of it.
Partially true.
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You serious? Not to beat a dead horse, but along with destroying Tony's house, he hijacked his armor, destroyed AF1, kidnapped the POTUS and the two most important people in his life, killed his old flame, hospitalized Happy, and came pretty damn close to owning the White House. This is exactly what I'm talking about - trivializing what occurred. I'm not saying you have to like it, but at least acknowledge what was there. I'm not the biggest fan of Peyton Manning, but...well, bad example, but you get the idea(if you're a football fan anyway).
So? None of that has a negative impact on anyone in this movie. Happy lives, Rhodey lives (defying all reason), Pepper lives, the President lives, even Jarvis and that robotic arm live! Tony's overcome his PTSD, he and Pepper are better, Happy could be gettin some lovin soon, and Tony got his shrapnel out. Killian's a B list villain. He was there to cause some problems that won't have negative lasting consequences and then go away. He's a one off. He's the Riddler in BATMAN FOREVER.
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Fair enough, nothing wrong with that, but that's also no reason to be so dismissive. You're glossing over, ignoring, or trivializing key points relating to his scheme, and that's just not a fair way to assess a villain, at all.
I don't care about his pathetic scheme. He's still just a pathetic villain. End of story. No matter the details, it doesn't change the facts about what a pathetic and hilarious failure of a villain he is. His plan was great, as I just said -which you'd know if you hadn't just ignored it so you could skip right to the attack and false accusations- but it's still a pathetic failure. Killian isn't special or unique in anyway. That's the reason they had to push that pointless message (which I like and appreciate by the way) -they try to pretend they're intelligent for coming up with- down everyone's throats. To give people something to talk about because their villain alone just wasn't gonna cut it.

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Old 12-15-2013, 09:58 AM   #261
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 2

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He's a one off. He's the Riddler in BATMAN FOREVER.I don't care about his pathetic scheme. He's still just a pathetic villain. End of story. No matter the details, it doesn't change the facts about what a pathetic and hilarious failure of a villain he is. His plan was great, as I just said -which you'd know if you hadn't just ignored it so you could skip right to the attack and false accusations- but it's still a pathetic failure. Killian isn't special or unique in anyway. That's the reason they had to push that pointless message (which I like and appreciate by the way) -they try to pretend they're intelligent for coming up with- down everyone's throats. To give people something to talk about because their villain alone just wasn't gonna cut it.
Yep the movie flew way over your head. I doubt you're even an Iron Man fan let alone know anything about his rogue galleries and his universe. It's fine to dislike the film but sometimes you're coming off as hating just for the sake of it especially when people are giving you valid and cohesive reasons about Killian's motivations and you completely ignore them.

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Old 12-15-2013, 12:31 PM   #262
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 2

Complaining that a villain is weak because he failed in his plans

Then i guess that 90% of the villains in fiction are pathetic failures

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Old 12-15-2013, 01:11 PM   #263
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Complaining that a villain is weak because he failed in his plans

Then i guess that 90% of the villains in fiction are pathetic failures
The only funny thing here is that you can't comprehend the fact that Killian's failure in his little scheme isn't the only thing that makes him a pathetic failure. Everything that he is accomplishes that. His character, his origin, motivation and end goal, triumphs over the hero. He doesn't fail at being a villain, he fails at being a great villain. There's nothing wrong with that, you know. Most villains aren't great, and that's fine. There's no need to feel insecure and get defensive about it. Killian is among fine average company.

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Old 12-15-2013, 01:54 PM   #264
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Yep the movie flew way over your head. I doubt you're even an Iron Man fan let alone know anything about his rogue galleries and his universe. It's fine to dislike the film but sometimes you're coming off as hating just for the sake of it especially when people are giving you valid and cohesive reasons about Killian's motivations and you completely ignore them.
Are you okay? Because you seem to be imagining things that never actually happened. Only one person talked about his motivations in this particular discussion. And all they said was that he was driven to perfect extremis and continue to grow his corporation. So, I think you might have a problem. Either that or your just making up an excuse to hate on someone because you can't handle someone calling a movie out on its crap so you attack without a single thoughtful word of legit discussion.


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Old 12-15-2013, 03:10 PM   #265
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Are you okay? Because you seem to be imagining things that never actually happened. Only one person talked about his motivations in this particular discussion. And all they said was that he was driven to perfect extremis and continue to grow his corporation. So, I think you might have a problem. Either that or your just making up an excuse to hate on someone because you can't handle someone calling a movie out on its crap so you attack without a single thoughtful word of legit discussion.
How am I making up an excuse to hate on you because you dislike the film? Everyone is entitled to their own opinion lol It's fine to dislike the film and Killian for that matter, but your reasons for calling him a crap villain are baffling. I've followed your posts and I agree with Lord, Complaining that a villain is weak because he failed in his plans is just hilarious. I'm sorry if I've offended or insulted you in anyway.

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Old 12-15-2013, 08:26 PM   #266
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The only funny thing here is that you can't comprehend the fact that Killian's failure in his little scheme isn't the only thing that makes him a pathetic failure....
Killian was a great villain, IMO. He brought the US government to its knees, took down Iron Man and Iron Patriot in single combat (his henchwoman got Rhodey, but using Extremis powers), blew Air Force One out of the sky, kidnapped a sitting president and collected taxpayer money to fund his schemes. He was powerful enough to go toe-to-toe with an armored Iron Man barehanded -- and win. All of this was accomplished while hiding behind a pseudo-terrorist puppet who was a right-wing fearmonger's wet dream. The villain and the satire behind him were brilliantly executed by Shane Black, who craftily turned a Yellow Peril cliche into a biting critique of the culture of fear created to keep the War on Terror running at full tilt in the US so that defense contractors (like AIM) can make billions in profits.

But, hey, YMMV.

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Old 12-16-2013, 01:34 AM   #267
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 2

xeno000, killin it

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Old 12-16-2013, 01:15 PM   #268
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Killian was a great villain, IMO. He brought the US government to its knees, took down Iron Man and Iron Patriot in single combat (his henchwoman got Rhodey, but using Extremis powers), blew Air Force One out of the sky, kidnapped a sitting president and collected taxpayer money to fund his schemes. He was powerful enough to go toe-to-toe with an armored Iron Man barehanded -- and win. All of this was accomplished while hiding behind a pseudo-terrorist puppet who was a right-wing fearmonger's wet dream. The villain and the satire behind him were brilliantly executed by Shane Black, who craftily turned a Yellow Peril cliche into a biting critique of the culture of fear created to keep the War on Terror running at full tilt in the US so that defense contractors (like AIM) can make billions in profits.

But, hey, YMMV.
I get you, but the character himself didn't make me care about any of that. He's basically a super powered Justin Hammer from IM2. Give Hammer Extremis and you've got Killian.

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Old 12-17-2013, 06:31 PM   #269
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Killian was a great villain, IMO. He brought the US government to its knees, took down Iron Man and Iron Patriot in single combat (his henchwoman got Rhodey, but using Extremis powers), blew Air Force One out of the sky, kidnapped a sitting president and collected taxpayer money to fund his schemes. He was powerful enough to go toe-to-toe with an armored Iron Man barehanded -- and win. All of this was accomplished while hiding behind a pseudo-terrorist puppet who was a right-wing fearmonger's wet dream. The villain and the satire behind him were brilliantly executed by Shane Black, who craftily turned a Yellow Peril cliche into a biting critique of the culture of fear created to keep the War on Terror running at full tilt in the US so that defense contractors (like AIM) can make billions in profits.

But, hey, YMMV.

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1) Captain America: The Winter Soldier 2) The Dark Knight 3) Spider-Man 2 4) X-Men: Days Of Future Past 5) X-Men: First Class
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Old 12-18-2013, 11:55 PM   #270
Flint Marko
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 2

Loved it. That's all I can say really. It was a very bold move, different and unexpected. Hats off to them for doing it and pulling it off.

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Old 12-31-2013, 05:10 AM   #271
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 2

I personally had mixed feelings about the plot twist with the Mandarin, but overall, I really enjoyed how the Mandarin was used in the movie. Ben Kingsley did a great job and really seemed to enjoy himself. My only complaint was that I wanted to see even more of him!

The Mandarin is not an easy character to adapt, so I give the filmmakers credit for making the effort. Kingsley's performance really helps to sell the character, plot twist or no plot twist. One way that you can tell that the movie largely succeeded with the character for a general moviegoer audience is how well non-fans respond to him. One of my friends, who only knows Iron Man through the films, said she thought Kingsley was great as the Mandarin, and she said that after seeing Iron Man 3, she understood why the Mandarin is such a popular villain in the comics.

The Mandarin's terrorist broadcasts are some of the best scenes in the movie. They are colorful, dramatic, and genuinely creepy. I wish Kingsley's Mandarin had had a dramatic showdown with Downey's Stark at the climax, but I really like the scenes where Kingsley dominates the screen.

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Old 12-31-2013, 01:07 PM   #272
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by giveyourself12% View Post
I get you, but the character himself didn't make me care about any of that. He's basically a super powered Justin Hammer from IM2. Give Hammer Extremis and you've got Killian.
This. The character might have been powerful and all, but it wasn't very memorable.

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Old 01-03-2014, 02:50 PM   #273
XtremelyBaneful
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 2

I keep trying to vote in the poll but it says the poll selection is closed. If that's the case, why is the voting options displayed for me instead of the results?!

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Old 01-03-2014, 06:03 PM   #274
jaqua99
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 2

good chance the Mandarin is Trevor.

The other site says that Iron man 3 writer hints "All hail the king" the short that comes with the thor DVD has to do with the Mandarin. We also know Ben Kingsley has filmed something else...there it is

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Old 01-03-2014, 07:39 PM   #275
giveyourself12%
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Default Re: The Mandarin in Iron Man 3...Love it or hate it? - Part 2

Fingers, toes, and lowercase t's....

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