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Old 09-24-2013, 09:13 AM   #26
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Default Re: Days of Future Past News and Discussion - - - Part 12

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I mostly see DoFP as its own thing, as I believe Singer referred to it as well.

It is of course technically a sequel to FC and X3 in a sense of it taking place a few years after both films and continuing with the same characters. But to me, both the 70s and the dark!future settings are so far removed from the settings of FC and X3 that I find it hard to see DoFP as a direct sequel to either film.

As to what sets of characters are more "important", well both are. The plot wouldn't happen in the first place without the OT characters setting things in motion, and it's up to FC characters plus Wolverine to actually do the work in the past and change the future.

I'm a bit sceptical about how much proper character development is going to happen in the future setting, considering the sheer amount of characters and the fact that most of the film is set in the 70s.
Singer calls it an inbetweenquel. So that in a sense is a sequel to both. As for character development in the future, there can't really be much as the events will be wiped from canon once the past is changed. But it should at least give us a good idea of what the characters are a like a decade or later after X3. We'll get to see what grown-up Rogue, Iceman, Kitty and Colossus are like. Their persona's would still be very similar in the altered future. I'm sure whatever interpersonal relationships issues there are will also somehow transfer to the altered timeline. Beyond that I doubt we will see big arcs on each given none of it really matters in the end.

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Old 09-24-2013, 01:35 PM   #27
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Default Re: Days of Future Past News and Discussion - - - Part 12

We don't know if the future is being wiped out.

It wasn't in the comic book or cartoon versions of the story, so it very well might not change in this version either. It very well could, but the precedent for this story isn't a clean undoing of the future, so who knows?

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Old 09-24-2013, 01:47 PM   #28
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Default Re: Days of Future Past News and Discussion - - - Part 12

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Singer calls it an inbetweenquel. So that in a sense is a sequel to both. As for character development in the future, there can't really be much as the events will be wiped from canon once the past is changed. But it should at least give us a good idea of what the characters are a like a decade or later after X3. We'll get to see what grown-up Rogue, Iceman, Kitty and Colossus are like. Their persona's would still be very similar in the altered future. I'm sure whatever interpersonal relationships issues there are will also somehow transfer to the altered timeline. Beyond that I doubt we will see big arcs on each given none of it really matters in the end.
Uhm, we have no proof or anything concrete pointing to that happening. For all we know, the movie ends like the original comic arc with Kitty (Wolvie in the movie) traveling back to the future only to find out that it didn't change - they just created an alternate timeline.

Personally, I think that would have a lot more impact then just everything being wiped out and wrapped up in a nice neat bow like everyone is expecting.

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Old 09-24-2013, 02:07 PM   #29
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Default Re: Days of Future Past News and Discussion - - - Part 12

Terminator 3 did the same thing. Everything was wiped, or so they thought. It only ended up postponing the stuff from 1994. I forget what the exact logic was. The processing chip and the arm was destroyed in T2, the technology of which SkyNet was based on, but I guess that technology was already in the pipeline of scientific advancement. It had to be, or else, how would we have had Terminators in the first place, as seen in the apocalyptic future? So it makes a little sense, when in reality, you are just replacing one paradox for another one that offers a more convenient narrative for a Hollywood blockbuster.

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Old 09-24-2013, 02:14 PM   #30
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Default Re: Days of Future Past News and Discussion - - - Part 12

The problem with the idea of everything being wiped clean and just starting over nice and neat in the future OT timeline is that it gives absolutely NO consequences or repercussions to the time travel aspect. If that's the case, what would keep them from time traveling yet again when something else goes wrong?

That's why I think sticking with the original comic ending makes the most sense and gives clear stakes for time travel - that you can't simply use it to change everything. That's way too simple and convenient. I really hope that's not the case with DOFP.

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Old 09-24-2013, 02:21 PM   #31
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Default Re: Days of Future Past News and Discussion - - - Part 12

With terminator lets face it they just kept the story going for the sake of sequels mostly because that's all the story of terminator is and wasn't many places the story could go, while I doubt singer will go that route of wolverine returning and everything is the same it just makes what every character did in the film to be pointless

Terminator 3's ending wasn't satisfying in my opinion :/

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Old 09-24-2013, 02:36 PM   #32
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Default Re: Days of Future Past News and Discussion - - - Part 12

It wouldn't make the film pointless if the future isn't changed - especially if an alternate timeline is created.

It would really make the First Class characters look at the impact of their actions and how even the smallest things could completely change the entire course of their lives. It would also be very powerful in the future timeline for Professor X and Magneto and how even though their future wasn't changed they've now given a renewed hope to their past selves to make different, for better or worse, life choices.

It could be quite a powerful, renewed ending.

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Old 09-24-2013, 02:36 PM   #33
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Uhm, we have no proof or anything concrete pointing to that happening. For all we know, the movie ends like the original comic arc with Kitty (Wolvie in the movie) traveling back to the future only to find out that it didn't change - they just created an alternate timeline.

Personally, I think that would have a lot more impact then just everything being wiped out and wrapped up in a nice neat bow like everyone is expecting.
Then alternate timeline wouldn't be in canon. The new timeline is the one they'd use for sequels. They won't be using a Sentinel inhabited world for any sequels. It wouldn't make sense to as it would seem like a rehash.

The whole movie seems somewhat pointless if they don't alter the future and bring about changes. Singer has said he's changing some things which indicates they succeed and the end for the OT characters is a new beginning.

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Old 09-24-2013, 02:41 PM   #34
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Default Re: Days of Future Past News and Discussion - - - Part 12

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Terminator 3 did the same thing. Everything was wiped, or so they thought. It only ended up postponing the stuff from 1994. I forget what the exact logic was. The processing chip and the arm was destroyed in T2, the technology of which SkyNet was based on, but I guess that technology was already in the pipeline of scientific advancement. It had to be, or else, how would we have had Terminators in the first place, as seen in the apocalyptic future? So it makes a little sense, when in reality, you are just replacing one paradox for another one that offers a more convenient narrative for a Hollywood blockbuster.
T2 had the same thing happen as T1: his arm gets detached and left behind, thus the delay in JD. History is doomed to repeat itself.

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Old 09-24-2013, 02:43 PM   #35
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Colossus is probably not gonna say much, but I bet he will have some cool action scenes.
I agree about the action scenes, but I have a feeling he'll be talking a bit more...which isn't saying much(no pun intended).

If Singer isn't really going to do much with him in this new film, then why bring him back? I'm betting money that he'll be in it a lot more.

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Old 09-24-2013, 02:46 PM   #36
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Default Re: Days of Future Past News and Discussion - - - Part 12

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The whole movie seems somewhat pointless if they don't alter the future and bring about changes.
I think you're looking at it from a completely narrow point of view. You're putting the time travel, which is simply just a tool over the entire theme and narrative of the story. It's not solely about changing the future and if the future isn't changed that doesn't make the time travel pointless.

It's about what the characters learn about themselves through the process and how they grow and get a little more depth. Learning that your actions have greater consequences for the future is certainly going to resonate more and be a bigger theme with the 70's cast then anything in the future for the most part.

Once again, not to beat a dead horse, but the original comic's future timeline didn't change and it's still one of the best X-Men story's to date. It's not pointless at all because there were bigger things happening then simply just changing the future.

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Old 09-24-2013, 03:13 PM   #37
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Default Re: Days of Future Past News and Discussion - - - Part 12

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I think you're looking at it from a completely narrow point of view. You're putting the time travel, which is simply just a tool over the entire theme and narrative of the story. It's not solely about changing the future and if the future isn't changed that doesn't make the time travel pointless.

It's about what the characters learn about themselves through the process and how they grow and get a little more depth. Learning that your actions have greater consequences for the future is certainly going to resonate more and be a bigger theme with the 70's cast then anything in the future for the most part.

Once again, not to beat a dead horse, but the original comic's future timeline didn't change and it's still one of the best X-Men story's to date. It's not pointless at all because there were bigger things happening then simply just changing the future.
Exactly. The story is what's important here and the time travel itself is merely a storytelling tool. Whether things are changed or not should serve whatever works with the overall narrative & the development & changing motivations of the important characters. For eg (not DoFP specific) someone could go back into the past to change a major event and eventually decide against it through their experience of and what they learn while in the past. They might for some reason decide that it's best to let the world follow its natural path without interference.

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Old 09-24-2013, 03:20 PM   #38
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Default Re: Days of Future Past News and Discussion - - - Part 12

Singer did say there would be changes made because that's comes with the territory of time travel

I can't see them going that route of wolverine goes back in time then they decide hey lets just let the future play out naturally even if its filled with sentinels,then wolverine returns and everything is the same with a hint of change

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Old 09-24-2013, 03:32 PM   #39
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Default Re: Days of Future Past News and Discussion - - - Part 12

I think things will definitely change as a result of the time travel. Singer already alluded to 'fixing ****' and a mainstream audience will need to feel satisfied by the ending of the film. It needn't tie everything up neatly but surely there should be some effects from the changes made in the past.

If they intend this to be a fond farewell for the OT cast, then the ending is likely to be happy and positive, or what's the use of just leaving the OT cast in a living hell and never visiting them again.

If, however, they are keeping their options open for another film with the OT cast, then they may tease changes in the future that require further exploration (Apocalypse, Legacy virus, etc).

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Old 09-24-2013, 04:13 PM   #40
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Default Re: Days of Future Past News and Discussion - - - Part 12

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It needn't tie everything up neatly but surely there should be some effects from the changes made in the past.
But there were effects - because of Kitty's actions they broke the timeline in two.

The problem with actions in the past directly changing things in the future timeline is that if the movie is going to bounce back and forth between past and future scenes, they HAVE to show those changes.

If those are the rules they are setting, whenever Wolvie or any other character makes a significant change in the past - when we bounce to the future scenes, they are going to have to show how that change has affected the future every single time. If not - it makes absolutely no sense.

The way they handle this element will be tricky and could really make or break the film if it doesn't make sense or stay consistent.

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Old 09-24-2013, 04:25 PM   #41
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T2 had the same thing happen as T1: his arm gets detached and left behind, thus the delay in JD. History is doomed to repeat itself.
Was it obvious though (I realize you are being facetious but still)? I thought Arnie jumped into the lava and took all his parts with him, or was his arm laying around? The arm wouldn't tell them the whole story, as the processor was definitely still in Arnie's skull. Hell, that would have just been too convenient and ironic and Cameron would be blasted for such a plot device to this day had that been the case.

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Singer did say there would be changes made because that's comes with the territory of time travel

I can't see them going that route of wolverine goes back in time then they decide hey lets just let the future play out naturally even if its filled with sentinels,then wolverine returns and everything is the same with a hint of change
That's what I believe is VERY likely. Unintended changes, like Xavier becoming the man he becomes in the OT. Letting a chain of events in line with the OT play out. Then dealing with the Sentinels in the future. So what does change really? Well, besides the inconsistencies of the orignal and new timeline post 1973 (notably Wolverine not interacting with Xavier/Magneto in the original timeline until X-1), probably not much. But you can implicitly show that Xavier/Magneto better prepare themselves mentally in dealing with the future.

Does this go as far as Magneto not being the terrorist he is in the OT? Or does Xavier train the X-Men differently? These changes in mentality of the two could completely alter the events of the OT. For example, why would Magneto go through what he attempted to do in X2 if it galvanized the anti-mutant responses from the government (indirectly leading to advanced Sentinels)? That changes everything. I think Singer could implicitly make these changes and let the audiences speculate, or Singer can spell it out for us and feature Scott/Jean in cameos at the end where everyone is happy.

What I expect is an ambiguous ending where we are left wondering if a timeline virtually identical to the OT timeline (and apocalyptic future) really does happen, or if everything changes. I believe Lensher will have an opportunity to kill Trask, but he won't take it. The Sentinels may or may not happen, based on what Trask thinks is best. And the OT will remain in cannon, despite the inconsistencies.


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Old 09-24-2013, 04:32 PM   #42
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Default Re: Days of Future Past News and Discussion - - - Part 12

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But there were effects - because of Kitty's actions they broke the timeline in two.

The problem with actions in the past directly changing things in the future timeline is that if the movie is going to bounce back and forth between past and future scenes, they HAVE to show those changes.

If those are the rules they are setting, whenever Wolvie or any other character makes a significant change in the past - when we bounce to the future scenes, they are going to have to show how that change has affected the future every single time. If not - it makes absolutely no sense.

The way they handle this element will be tricky and could really make or break the film if it doesn't make sense or stay consistent.
I had a pretty big discussion about this. Technically, once the past put a kink in the timeline, it should immediately change the future as it happens. At least, that's how it would play out if the concept was possible. For the sake of the movie, though, I don't think we're going to get any changes made in the future until the storyline in 1973 is completed. So I feel like we'll get this apocalyptic, Sentinel-laden future for the whole film until the very end, even though that's not really how it would work. But it'd be far more dramatic and far less confusing compared to a future that's changing constantly around them.

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Old 09-24-2013, 04:36 PM   #43
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Default Re: Days of Future Past News and Discussion - - - Part 12

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Was it obvious though (I realize you are being facetious but still)? I thought Arnie jumped into the lava and took all his parts with him, or was his arm laying around? The arm wouldn't tell them the whole story, as the processor was definitely still in Arnie's skull. Hell, that would have just been too convenient and ironic and Cameron would be blasted for such a plot device to this day had that been the case.
Yeah I thought he destroyed the arm and then said all that was left was himself, there was also a deleted scene where Sarah is old and they said they changed the future, obvious it wasn't used so isn't canon

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Old 09-24-2013, 04:46 PM   #44
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Default Re: Days of Future Past News and Discussion - - - Part 12

On Xavier's return, I'm not so concerned how they'd explain it so much as why they'd explain it.

The future takes place around ten years after the events of TW. For ten years, we know Xavier, Magneto and Wolverine have been working together to fight the Sentinels. So, in what context would anyone be surprised to see Xavier? Unless Bobby, Kitty, Rogue and/or Colossus have not been with them till the beginning of this film. But I don't see that happening. I guess if they make a passing reference to his ability to transfer his own consciousness when trying to explain the time travel theory (since that's just a transference of consciousness, too,) as I've speculated and voiced for a few weeks now, then it would work without having to have someone blatantly ask him how he's alive. I guess that's the only way I see it working without feeling too forced.

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Old 09-24-2013, 04:48 PM   #45
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Default Re: Days of Future Past News and Discussion - - - Part 12

The temple may have some special power related to time

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Old 09-24-2013, 04:51 PM   #46
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Default Re: Days of Future Past News and Discussion - - - Part 12

Honestly, I don't think that temple has any significance in regards to time travel. It's probably just a cool set piece being used as a hideout that's far removed from detection for the team.

Adding mystical temple powers is just too much and not in Singer's style for X-Men.

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Old 09-24-2013, 04:56 PM   #47
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I don't believe that's a temple. All those stained glass bits are seen when the new mutants are shown leaving the destroyed Cerebro. And the massive pillars look more like massive generators to me. Also, when we see them walking up to this building from behind, it easily looks like it could be a destroyed Mansion entrance. Besides, Xavier has to use Cerebro to do what he's doing, and likely has Magneto help him fix it. I truly believe the building we get several glimpses inside of is a destroyed Mansion subbasement. That doesn't really explain the pretty stained glass, but, who knows? Maybe it was some type of insulation behind the typically-metal walls.

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Old 09-24-2013, 05:00 PM   #48
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Default Re: Days of Future Past News and Discussion - - - Part 12

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I don't believe that's a temple. All those stained glass bits are seen when the new mutants are shown leaving the destroyed Cerebro. And the massive pillars look more like massive generators to me. Also, when we see them walking up to this building from behind, it easily looks like it could be a destroyed Mansion entrance. Besides, Xavier has to use Cerebro to do what he's doing, and likely has Magneto help him fix it. I truly believe the building we get several glimpses inside of is a destroyed Mansion subbasement. That doesn't really explain the pretty stained glass, but, who knows? Maybe it was some type of insulation behind the typically-metal walls.
Could be but then - there's that shot of Storm using her powers over top a giant mountain range in the background. Of course they could both be edited out of context...

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Old 09-24-2013, 05:00 PM   #49
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Honestly, I don't think that temple has any significance in regards to time travel. It's probably just a cool set piece being used as a hideout that's far removed from detection for the team.

Adding mystical temple powers is just too much and not in Singer's style for X-Men.
it looks like it will have some relevance in the teaser as you see them walking towards it and then they walk up to something which looks like a table which i'm guessing wolverine will need to lay on :/

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I don't believe that's a temple. All those stained glass bits are seen when the new mutants are shown leaving the destroyed Cerebro. And the massive pillars look more like massive generators to me. Also, when we see them walking up to this building from behind, it easily looks like it could be a destroyed Mansion entrance. Besides, Xavier has to use Cerebro to do what he's doing, and likely has Magneto help him fix it. I truly believe the building we get several glimpses inside of is a destroyed Mansion subbasement. That doesn't really explain the pretty stained glass, but, who knows? Maybe it was some type of insulation behind the typically-metal walls.
no its defo a temple, i just looked at the footage and there is nothing about it that looks like a mansion and the pillars do not look like generators lol

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Old 09-24-2013, 05:17 PM   #50
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That's what I believe is VERY likely. Unintended changes, like Xavier becoming the man he becomes in the OT. Letting a chain of events in line with the OT play out. Then dealing with the Sentinels in the future. So what does change really? Well, besides the inconsistencies of the orignal and new timeline post 1973 (notably Wolverine not interacting with Xavier/Magneto in the original timeline until X-1), probably not much. But you can implicitly show that Xavier/Magneto better prepare themselves mentally in dealing with the future.

Does this go as far as Magneto not being the terrorist he is in the OT? Or does Xavier train the X-Men differently? These changes in mentality of the two could completely alter the events of the OT. For example, why would Magneto go through what he attempted to do in X2 if it galvanized the anti-mutant responses from the government (indirectly leading to advanced Sentinels)? That changes everything. I think Singer could implicitly make these changes and let the audiences speculate, or Singer can spell it out for us and feature Scott/Jean in cameos at the end where everyone is happy.

What I expect is an ambiguous ending where we are left wondering if a timeline virtually identical to the OT timeline (and apocalyptic future) really does happen, or if everything changes. I believe Lensher will have an opportunity to kill Trask, but he won't take it. The Sentinels may or may not happen, based on what Trask thinks is best. And the OT will remain in cannon, despite the inconsistencies.
truth be told Xavier will make similar choices anyway i don't think anyone is expecting him to not form the X-men and carry on

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